preraph Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Writing this all out I can't believe I haven't ended it already. We get so immersed in relationships that we can't see the big picture. Happens to all of us.
Methodical Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Tux, This guy has raised several red flags, all in the span of three months. Generally, ppl are on their best behavior early on and slowly settle down and show their true colors. I doubt his behavior and mannerisms are going to improve. He has no desire to aspire to higher standards. Incompatibility markers are rising up in several key areas that bother you. Time to rethink this relationship. 1
Author tuxedo cat Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 Is it crazy to think he might change his crude ways if I confront him in just the right fashion? All of my previous attempts to discuss his behavior with him haven't gone well but maybe I'm doing it wrong...?
katiegrl Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Is it crazy to think he might change his crude ways if I confront him in just the right fashion? All of my previous attempts to discuss his behavior with him haven't gone well but maybe I'm doing it wrong...? What I am trying to figure out is....why would you even want to? Are you not completely turned off by all this? If not, why not? There is more than enough evidence to show he's just a crude, lazy slob who obviously doesn't think very highly of women, in general. The crude derogatory terms he uses to describe would certainly indicate that. So why bother? Just walk away.... do you not believe you deserve better than this? 3
Zahara Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Is it crazy to think he might change his crude ways if I confront him in just the right fashion? All of my previous attempts to discuss his behavior with him haven't gone well but maybe I'm doing it wrong...? Tux, this isn't about telling your boyfriend to put the toilet seat down. These are ingrained behaviors -- not just the crudeness but there are other traits to him that don't tie in with your values and that are certainly red flags. There is no right fashion in the way you approach him because this guy has repeatedly dismissed your requests -- and that is because he doesn't think what he's doing is wrong and he certainly doesn't care. You're bargaining. You know this isn't the relationship for you. He's twice proclaimed to be a sociopath and while we don't know how much of that's true, but just the fact that someone would say that would make me run the other way. 5
Author tuxedo cat Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 What I am trying to figure out is....why would you even want to? Are you not completely turned off by all this? If not, why not? There is more than enough evidence to show he's just a crude, lazy slob who obviously doesn't think very highly of women, in general. The crude derogatory terms he uses to describe would certainly indicate that. So why bother? Just walk away.... do you not believe you deserve better than this? On some level I don't think I can do better. Most of the other guys I've dated haven't even been willing to commit to me lately so it feels like by breaking up with him I might be choosing a life of solitude. And sadly being alone is worse. I remember how much bleaker I felt when I was single. I feel depressed with him as well but in a different way. Neither are good.
preraph Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Is it crazy to think he might change his crude ways if I confront him in just the right fashion? All of my previous attempts to discuss his behavior with him haven't gone well but maybe I'm doing it wrong...? I think your time would be better spent finding one that's already grown up. He sounds pretty convinced that they way he's doing things is perfectly okay, even after you've complained about it.
Zahara Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 And sadly being alone is worse. I remember how much bleaker I felt when I was single. I feel depressed with him as well but in a different way. Neither are good. I remember being in one bad relationship after another. I was so exhausted. Co-dependent. I couldn't stand to be alone, always needing someone in my life and absolutely addicted to being in a relationship. I couldn't comprehend nor bear the thought of being alone. It was petrifying and depressing. My last relationship, like yours, ended when he said, "I don't know if I'm a psychopath or a sociopath. Which is worse?" That was it. It's been a long time since I've been in a relationship or even a date. It took me months of therapy, denial, discomfort and self-reflection to get to this point in my life. I love my aloneness. I'm not seeking. I'm not anxious. This year I'm planning to travel through Europe by myself. I've been a solo traveler for awhile now. I went from severe dependence to independence. Granted I miss being in a relationship sometimes but it's fleeting because I'm happy. A partner/relationship should be a bonus in your already contented life. It shouldn't be the end all be all. One life to live. Are you sure you want to do it this way? 5
thecrucible Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Tips on how to find a better guy? learn to spot, and not tolerate abusive personality traits. Stop dating them immediately. Any real negative qualities that appear should always out weigh the good. This. The sooner you realise they suck, better drop them quicker than a sack of potatoes. Also respect for each other is really important from both sides in a relationship so if it isn't working and if you don't find a way to address it, then you're not compatible. Then you have to think about the impact a poor relationship with have on any children. I can see where you are coming from OP as I've been there where the guy seems great and then suddenly all these negative traits come out.
xcupid Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 His joking and attitude about women is disturbing. He's not going to change so you have to decide whether you can live with the way he is and will be. His good qualities in time could be overshadowed by the qualities you don't like. Sounds to me like you're incompatible - at the very least he doesn't see the need to improve. I think you could do much better, IMO.
Rejected Rosebud Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Is it crazy to think he might change his crude ways if I confront him in just the right fashion? All of my previous attempts to discuss his behavior with him haven't gone well but maybe I'm doing it wrong...? Well, not crazy exactly. Misguided maybe.
No_Go Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Very true! I guess to distinguish between the two scenarios one should learn the art of introspection... No_Go, there is a difference between not settling and setting ridiculously high expectations. Someone can exaggerate their partners' faults, break up, and then remain single and preach that they are "not settling," when in fact, it is the person falsely hiding behind that phrase who has commitment issues and/or other personal problems. People of both healthy and ill emotions can use that same term but to very different effects. edit: that was in response to what you said in post 12, not 13, which seems to go along with this point. 1
No_Go Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, hard to say what's in others people head. There are many lonely/unfulfilled people in LTR/marriages which is sad too. When I read tuxedo's post, I picked the following: the guy is bad mouthed, a bit slob by and not tidy. None of these suggested immediate danger like abusive or disrespectful behavior towards her. If that's the case - by all means she should leave. But if it is just the 3 months blues (transitioning from honeymoon to getting to know the real man).... Maybe it is not time to quit just yet. Rather focus on what she likes at him and decide if the dislikes are real deal breakers. Of course, my friend is the exception to the rule. But that doesn't mean you have to stay in a toxic relationship. If your choices are between someone that has claimed to be a sociopath and has exhibited traits of negative behavior, I think the better choice would be to move on and take your chances. I'm not saying she will be guaranteed better by leaving but it will definitely save her from being in a destructive situation and who knows, with all hope provide her with better and healthier opportunities to have what she wants in the future. I'd rather take that risk than stay in a bad relationship. Being in such a short relationship and already having to feel unfulfilled, unhappy and uncertain and wondering if she should just stick it out -- that's settling. That creates a very sad person in the long run. Your friend is your friend and I don't know her choices and why she decided to look for better rather than settle? I don't know her mindset or the reasons for her decisions. But specifically to TC's post, she shouldn't have to stay in a relationship that is already detrimental to her, but even worse, a situation where there will come a time she will add children to the picture.
kztar Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Please WALK AWAY NOW. Do not wait till 1.5 years later like I did. It will only hurt more and I'm sorry but these things only get worst with time. TRUST ME I ignored all the little red flags because I loved him and I wanted to share my life with someone. Me not walking away on time has caused me the biggest heartache of my life. Do not sit around waiting to get to know him better. This is him. I wish my Ex would have shown me his REAL colors from the start. I would of dropped that ASAP.
fitnessfan365 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah I can see how you'd be bothered by him speaking in derogatory ways about women in general. Also leaving the bathroom a mess with stuff all over the place is pretty disgusting and I agree that professional standards are important. BUT... The one area you do sound high maintenance on is wanting a dress code for simple lounging around. Let's say you two have a date. Or you're going to some sort of social function with friends, a family dinner, etc.. Then of course it should be expected to look presentable. But asking him to fix himself up for a lazy day on the couch is a bit much IMO.
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 On some level I don't think I can do better. Most of the other guys I've dated haven't even been willing to commit to me lately so it feels like by breaking up with him I might be choosing a life of solitude. And sadly being alone is worse. I remember how much bleaker I felt when I was single. I feel depressed with him as well but in a different way. Neither are good. Yeah it's like picking between 2 bad options. I fluctuate between pushing myself to date someone like your bf and being single and alone. The only guys that are willing to commit to me are also of a type you describe: crass, uncultured, outgoing and not that intelligent, usually barely have jobs. It's the opposite of what I want. It's really bad when random people on the street approach you with comments like "you are way to classy for him" after seeing you together. I am currently dating a rough, crass guy myself and feeling When people tell me "you can do better" and I feel the same but the evidence is showing that I can't actually do better. It's not that I care what people think, but when they echo what's going on in your mind without knowing it; it's like I am not being delusional. No advice, just sympathy. 1
Leigh 87 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, hard to say what's in others people head. There are many lonely/unfulfilled people in LTR/marriages which is sad too. When I read tuxedo's post, I picked the following: the guy is bad mouthed, a bit slob by and not tidy. None of these suggested immediate danger like abusive or disrespectful behavior towards her. If that's the case - by all means she should leave. But if it is just the 3 months blues (transitioning from honeymoon to getting to know the real man).... Maybe it is not time to quit just yet. Rather focus on what she likes at him and decide if the dislikes are real deal breakers. Um. If the honeymoon period ends after mere months. .. you're doomed. It should last at least a year. My friends are still in the honeymoon phase after nearly 3 years.
Zapbasket Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah it's like picking between 2 bad options. I fluctuate between pushing myself to date someone like your bf and being single and alone. The only guys that are willing to commit to me are also of a type you describe: crass, uncultured, outgoing and not that intelligent, usually barely have jobs. It's the opposite of what I want. It's really bad when random people on the street approach you with comments like "you are way to classy for him" after seeing you together. I am currently dating a rough, crass guy myself and feeling When people tell me "you can do better" and I feel the same but the evidence is showing that I can't actually do better. It's not that I care what people think, but when they echo what's going on in your mind without knowing it; it's like I am not being delusional. No advice, just sympathy. I relate to this and to the OP's situation. I think the thing is that we can do "better," but "better" doesn't necessarily mean a better guy. At least, maybe not right away. "Better" perhaps is just staying true to ourselves and what we want out of life and our relationships. I think when you're single, it's easy to feel, "I want a relationship," but really, it's not "a relationship" you want, it's an experience with another human being that elevates you, that brings you even closer to your truest self and aspirations and the kind of life you want to lead. That is SO, SO much more than just having "a relationship." Perspective gets clouded when you have an ambivalent relationship with being single. It's so easy to look around you at the exteriors of all the coupled people and think, "Why don't I have that?" But you don't really ever know what "that" is. Couples might seem happy, but they struggle no less than single people with finding real happiness. I think the only people who are truly happy are those who stay true to themselves. Those people are few and far between; the rest of the world is just chasing happiness in any which way--superficial accoutrements, a well-curated "happy" life on social media, etc. I'm right there with you in often wondering whether perhaps I'm too picky. But history has only told me I haven't been picky enough in choosing whom to date. So where does that leave me, when by my new, improved standards, no guy in my orbit even remotely measures up? Crass, self-centered, uncultured, unintelligent or just very average intelligence--these are adjectives I'd use to describe the options around me at this time. I just don't think the answer is for any of us to settle for dating these types of guys. OP, I want to chime in with support for letting this guy go. He'll never measure up to what you want, and that fact will spell unhappiness for both of you. The biggest red flag is his seeming disinterest in amending any of his behaviors, or at least examining some of them. Someone who is open to the kind of love you seem to be seeking would also be open to polishing his behaviors and attitudes to give you the best version of himself that he can. I suspect this guy, by contrast, will only end up resenting you if you don't agree to his program. Yes, you CAN do better. 4
joseb Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) TV On some level I don't think I can do better. Most of the other guys I've dated haven't even been willing to commit to me lately so it feels like by breaking up with him I might be choosing a life of solitude. And sadly being alone is worse. I remember how much bleaker I felt when I was single. I feel depressed with him as well but in a different way. Neither are good. Ok now I get why you are putting up with a bad relationship. You don't know how to be alone. Seems to be a common problem these days. If I'm in a bad relationship, then being single is doing better. A lot better. You need to realise that happiness needs to start with you and being happy in your own skin. You shouldn't really feel a terrible loneliness just being single. What kind of social network (friends, family, etc) do you have? Edited March 10, 2016 by joseb 1
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) I relate to this and to the OP's situation. I think the thing is that we can do "better," but "better" doesn't necessarily mean a better guy. At least, maybe not right away. "Better" perhaps is just staying true to ourselves and what we want out of life and our relationships. I think when you're single, it's easy to feel, "I want a relationship," but really, it's not "a relationship" you want, it's an experience with another human being that elevates you, that brings you even closer to your truest self and aspirations and the kind of life you want to lead. That is SO, SO much more than just having "a relationship." This is so well said, OP please read this over and over. When you're in a good relationship it doesn't feel like a battle. It's smooth, it feels good, it makes you feel safe and it enhances your life. I'm right there with you in often wondering whether perhaps I'm too picky. But history has only told me I haven't been picky enough in choosing whom to date. So where does that leave me, when by my new, improved standards, no guy in my orbit even remotely measures up? Crass, self-centered, uncultured, unintelligent or just very average intelligence--these are adjectives I'd use to describe the options around me at this time. Someone can be too picky about looks, education, personal finances, personal history etc but when it comes to character we should always be picky. OP: Can you imagine yourself having a life with this man, him having this type of language around your children, around your mother, your friends? God forbid one day you have a daughter together. The right guy will come along but for it to happen you have to get rid of the junk and make space. Don't ever compromise on character when you meet a man. Even if it takes you another couple of years to meet your someone it will be worth the wait. When I met my boyfriend I had been looking for close to 4 years. I had lots of micro-relationships with the wrong men, at some point I felt I would never find the type of man I wanted in my life, I was even wondering if such men exited, then I met him! and he was worth the wait. I can't describe to you how wonderful it feels to be with a man that has respect and consideration for you and for everyone around. Someone you are proud to introduce as your boyfriend. Whether you want it or not, your boyfriend is a reflection of you, and you of him. When you let someone in your life it's telling of how much respect you have for yourself. Edited March 10, 2016 by Gaeta
miranda_wilson Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Well, the misogynistic comments are reason enough to dump him. I've dated and liked guys who are a little bit "old fashioned" in some of their ideas about gender roles, but they are at least enlightened about what is and is not overtly sexist. They are also aware of obvious double-standards and acknowledge them as such. A few I've liked/dated have critiqued some aspects of the contemporary feminist movement, but they are not misogynistic, nor do they not believe in equality, nor do they not support women having power, etc. They respect women in general. But even if your boyfriend weren't misogynistic, I don't think he is what you want. You're a more refined person than he is, and even though people don't have to match each other exactly when it comes to being refined, it sounds like he's way lower than you in that regard. I can relate to you a little (but my situation isn't nearly as bad.) I've been with a guy for seven months who I DO view as equally refined/educated as I am -- he has a law degree, I have a master's. We both write well and speak well. Neither of us is crass, nor do we tell gross/inappropriate jokes in mixed company. (He actually complained about his most recent ex doing that.) He is as clean/dirty about housekeeping as I am. But when it comes to eating and drinking, I'm more refined than he is. I eat healthy, and he doesn't. I also don't drink as much as he does. He's not an alcoholic, but I feel like he's a 'moderate drinker' which means 1-2 drinks every single day, and honestly I don't think that's healthy. He could stand to lose 15 pounds, whereas I am slim. My situation isn't bad though. I'm not fundamentally unhappy with his personality, conversation-style, or demeanor. I just think he needs to eat better and drink a bit less!
miranda_wilson Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Also, there are plenty of guys out there who are loving, loyal, don't do push-pull, are sweet and attentive. The one I am with is this way. But he's like that PLUS he's refined. So....you can have this.
Author tuxedo cat Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 I ended it over the phone this morning. I left some things at his place including my phone charger, my hat and gloves, and need to retrieve them tonight but he's telling me I should just buy a new charger because he doesn't want to see me. I really don't want to have to spend $30 on a new charger and I need it urgently. We set up a time twice for me to drop by and pick it up and he's cancelled on me twice. He is also sending me tons of angry texts about how he feels like I treated him "terribly" because of the times I came to him with criticisms about his behavior. Ugh. He didn't understand at all while I broke up with him. I tried to explain that he never compromises on anything and won't even fix little things in his behavior for me but he thought that was a crazy reason to end things and if I really cared about him I wouldn't do that. 4
jen1447 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 You go Kitty!! Just let the charger go btw ....$30 is a small price to pay for your freedom. Hell I'll buy you one if you want. 4
katiegrl Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I ended it over the phone this morning. I left some things at his place including my phone charger, my hat and gloves, and need to retrieve them tonight but he's telling me I should just buy a new charger because he doesn't want to see me. I really don't want to have to spend $30 on a new charger and I need it urgently. . PM me with your address hun...I will fed ex you the $30.00! DON'T SEE HIM... and block, delete, next. Best of luck as you move forward! 1
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