frustrations with boyfriend

[tuxedo cat]

My three-month relationship is on the rocks. I told my boyfriend that I needed a break to sort out my feelings and needs. Basically, he treats me generally well but has some personality traits that I find unpleasant. First and foremost he has a crass sense of humor and often relates to me as if I'm another dude. He makes gross sexual jokes around me and describes women in demeaning ways ("whore", "bitch", c-word). I've asked him to stop and he won't. Generally, I just feel like he lacks a filter and doesn't understand the basics of social presentation. It's not that he's nasty - he's polite with strangers and always nice to wait staff - but that he's stubbornly clueless and sloppy with people. Whenever I go to his apartment on the weekend he is lounging around in sweats; he literally will never get dressed if he stays home for the day. When I asked him if he could at least throw jeans on he said he was raised in a household where you wear pajamas whenever you're home and he's not going to compromise his comfort to look good (). His bathroom is disgusting - he keeps his dirty laundry, including gym clothes, in a bag on the bathroom floor because he doesn't want it to smell up his bedroom. I've asked him many times if he could tidy it up when he knows I'm coming over, but he won't.

 

His lack of refinement extends to his job, as he refuses to conform to professional standards. For example, he insists it's fine for him to send potential employers email cover letters with poor grammar (like "your" instead of "you're" or "I could of" rather than "I could have"), claiming it doesn't matter in his industry and that it's actually better to be "informal." He makes an okay income but I worry he'll never go far because he doesn't know how to play the game. He's already lost one client since we got together when she caught him dozing off on the job.

 

I hate to use "loser," because it's an ugly word, but his lifestyle and way of being are starting to give me that vibe. When I first met him I was charmed by his sense of humor and charisma, having just dated a stiff, formal guy, but I've since discovered that his humor is one of his few redeeming traits. He's told me that he's "gamed" girls in the past, lied to them about specific details of his life to seem more successful and cool. While he claims he never did that with me, and I haven't caught him in any lies yet, I do feel like he subtly played me because it's the only way I can explain my sudden feeling of "what am I doing?" It's not just me: he says that most girls are really into him at the start and then abruptly come to their senses. I now understand why.

 

It kind of kills me that he isn't the full package because he does have certain scarce boyfriend traits: he's loving and loyal, and is never cold, neglectful or rejecting. Whenever I've been down or sick he's taken care of me. He doesn't shy from emotional intimacy and is one of the rare guys who doesn't engage in push-pull. It's just unfortunate that his outer presentation doesn't reflect the size of his heart.

 

Basically, I know it's going to end. I'm just struggling to end it, as I really want to get married and have kids (I'm 32), and honestly don't know if I can do any better. I'm smart, educated and cultured, but guys who share these attributes never seem to like me. Guys who are my opposite (extroverted and unrefined) seem to adore me. I'd give anything to be with a smart, unassuming, thoughtful guy. I don't even care about looks. But those guys always complain about my shyness, while the louder dudes are more accepting of who I am.

 

Any advice on how to attract better guys? Is it just a matter of putting myself out there more? I've been avoiding really dating for awhile because I don't handle rejection well.

Edited March 9, 2016 by tuxedo cat

[jen1447]

Maybe take a break for a while and see what kind of guys come around when you're not trying.

[Zahara]

I'm just struggling to end it, as I really want to get married and have kids (I'm 32), and honestly don't know if I can do any better.

 

If you think this is the best you can find, it normally stems from your own sense of devaluation.

 

A friend of mine got married at 42 and had her first child at 43. Settling because you're gung ho on a timeline you've created in your head isn't the smart and healthy thing to do.

[LydiaLong]

Cat,

I don't think it's ever going to work out for you. Clearly you have standards that you're not willing to compromise. You shouldn't have to. Even though he may have some traits that you really like and see promise in, the negative qualities, in my opinion, really outweigh the good.

 

He has a right to live like a slob and talk trash, but you don't have an obligation to live with it.

[smackie9]

Tips on how to find a better guy? learn to spot, and not tolerate abusive personality traits. Stop dating them immediately. Any real negative qualities that appear should always out weigh the good.

[Satu]

He's not a bad person, ..... just unrefined, as you say.

 

He'll live that way until he wants to live differently.

 

He's not there yet.

[bluefeather]

Any advice on how to attract better guys? Is it just a matter of putting myself out there more? I've been avoiding really dating for awhile because I don't handle rejection well.

 

Hmm... define "putting myself out there more." Being more social might help increase your numbers, but not necessarily for the type of person you are looking for.

 

Case in point, I'm sort of an introvert now looking for another introvert. I'm like you in the sense that the ones always attracted to me are extreme extroverts. Maybe it's because our emotions balance theirs.. but maybe it's also because other introverts are very hesitant to approach people. That could explain why I always end up with these types of out-going people - they're the only ones who try!

 

My advice to you might not be to put yourself out there more, but specifically, to talk to people more. If you are interested, just say something. Anything. Even a hello. That is all a person like me would need to receive a "you can try to talk to me" vibe. And if you did things like this, you would not have to fear rejection, since you didn't "put yourself out there" as much anyway.

 

I'd advise you not to settle for a guy like that if you desire something more. I basically got my heart torn out by someone for the second time.. and I'm not going to crawl back to gas-lighting and other forms of mental abuse again just because I want a family and I'm getting up there in years. What I mean to say is, there are still decent people out there who are looking, and around your age too.

 

It's up to you what you choose to do in life, but I'm not going to give up yet.

[katiegrl]

My three-month relationship is on the rocks. I told my boyfriend that I needed a break to sort out my feelings and needs. Basically, he treats me generally well but has some personality traits that I find unpleasant. First and foremost he has a crass sense of humor and often relates to me as if I'm another dude. He makes gross sexual jokes around me and describes women in demeaning ways ("whore", "bitch", c-word).

 

Got this far --- immediate dealbreaker -- next!

 

I will continue reading but it's sort of irrelevant since he'd be nexted immediately after what I bolded, and specifically underlined.

[Zahara]

My friend had the same thought about the borderline sociopathic tendency. It's actually the second time he's applied that term to himself. The first he joked that he was a sociopath, which gave me pause because it came out as a non sequitur.

 

You wrote this in one of your earlier threads. I would have paid close attention then. The misogynistic comments and some of the behaviors mentioned in your past thread as well as this one...I have to wonder.

[katiegrl]

Got this far --- immediate dealbreaker -- next!

 

I will continue reading but it's sort of irrelevant since he'd be nexted immediately after what I bolded, and specifically underlined.

 

 

TC -- The first step in attracting better (the right) guys is NOT tolerating that type of crap from the wrong ones... especially describing women in such derogatory ways.

 

How soon into your RL did he start doing this?

Edited March 9, 2016 by katiegrl

[tuxedo cat]

Got this far --- immediate dealbreaker -- next!

 

I will continue reading but it's sort of irrelevant since he'd be nexted immediately after what I bolded, and specifically underlined.

 

Yeah, part of me can't believe I even got this far with him after he started to do that. I've never dated a guy who engages in that behavior.

[No_Go]

The thing is what you describe is an exception confirming the rule. At 42 the pool of available men/women without tons of baggage (ex spouses, baby mamas and daddies, idiosyncrasies because of decades living alone, illnesses etc) is minimal Fertility at 43 for a woman is at best 1% of the one she had at 20. Birth defects plummet (thankfully or not somewhat self-regulated by miscarriages - viable pregnancies over 40 are very small fraction of the total).

 

Also the midset - I'll look for better and won't settle creates very sad people. One of my good friends is like this during the day (she is 46). At night - she is drinking herself to death and crying over her choices I am all for NOT settle attitude but if and only if the person in question is willing and happy to accept the opportunity to remain childless and / or alone, because this possibility is big and real...

 

If you think this is the best you can find, it normally stems from your own sense of devaluation.

 

A friend of mine got married at 42 and had her first child at 43. Settling because you're gung ho on a timeline you've created in your head isn't the smart and healthy thing to do.

[No_Go]

I think you're just putting very high expectations on him because you have predefined image of what's your ideal partner (refined language, clean, dressing nicely etc). Think seriously if these are real deal breakers for you... and if so, break the deal.

 

I think if you define well your deal breakers you'd have better chances to meet more suitable men - you can position yourself accordingly e.g. in professional groups you'd find men dressing better etc.

 

IMO introverted+extroverted work better than 2 introverted people in a couple... Refined is a quality that is a subject of change, unless extreme... Not more difficult than changing clothing styles.

 

My three-month relationship is on the rocks. I told my boyfriend that I needed a break to sort out my feelings and needs. Basically, he treats me generally well but has some personality traits that I find unpleasant. First and foremost he has a crass sense of humor and often relates to me as if I'm another dude. He makes gross sexual jokes around me and describes women in demeaning ways ("whore", "bitch", c-word). I've asked him to stop and he won't. Generally, I just feel like he lacks a filter and doesn't understand the basics of social presentation. It's not that he's nasty - he's polite with strangers and always nice to wait staff - but that he's stubbornly clueless and sloppy with people. Whenever I go to his apartment on the weekend he is lounging around in sweats; he literally will never get dressed if he stays home for the day. When I asked him if he could at least throw jeans on he said he was raised in a household where you wear pajamas whenever you're home and he's not going to compromise his comfort to look good (). His bathroom is disgusting - he keeps his dirty laundry, including gym clothes, in a bag on the bathroom floor because he doesn't want it to smell up his bedroom. I've asked him many times if he could tidy it up when he knows I'm coming over, but he won't.

 

His lack of refinement extends to his job, as he refuses to conform to professional standards. For example, he insists it's fine for him to send potential employers email cover letters with poor grammar (like "your" instead of "you're" or "I could of" rather than "I could have"), claiming it doesn't matter in his industry and that it's actually better to be "informal." He makes an okay income but I worry he'll never go far because he doesn't know how to play the game. He's already lost one client since we got together when she caught him dozing off on the job.

 

I hate to use "loser," because it's an ugly word, but his lifestyle and way of being are starting to give me that vibe. When I first met him I was charmed by his sense of humor and charisma, having just dated a stiff, formal guy, but I've since discovered that his humor is one of his few redeeming traits. He's told me that he's "gamed" girls in the past, lied to them about specific details of his life to seem more successful and cool. While he claims he never did that with me, and I haven't caught him in any lies yet, I do feel like he subtly played me because it's the only way I can explain my sudden feeling of "what am I doing?" It's not just me: he says that most girls are really into him at the start and then abruptly come to their senses. I now understand why.

 

It kind of kills me that he isn't the full package because he does have certain scarce boyfriend traits: he's loving and loyal, and is never cold, neglectful or rejecting. Whenever I've been down or sick he's taken care of me. He doesn't shy from emotional intimacy and is one of the rare guys who doesn't engage in push-pull. It's just unfortunate that his outer presentation doesn't reflect the size of his heart.

 

Basically, I know it's going to end. I'm just struggling to end it, as I really want to get married and have kids (I'm 32), and honestly don't know if I can do any better. I'm smart, educated and cultured, but guys who share these attributes never seem to like me. Guys who are my opposite (extroverted and unrefined) seem to adore me. I'd give anything to be with a smart, unassuming, thoughtful guy. I don't even care about looks. But those guys always complain about my shyness, while the louder dudes are more accepting of who I am.

 

Any advice on how to attract better guys? Is it just a matter of putting myself out there more? I've been avoiding really dating for awhile because I don't handle rejection well.

[bluefeather]

No_Go, there is a difference between not settling and setting ridiculously high expectations. Someone can exaggerate their partners' faults, break up, and then remain single and preach that they are "not settling," when in fact, it is the person falsely hiding behind that phrase who has commitment issues and/or other personal problems.

 

People of both healthy and ill emotions can use that same term but to very different effects.

 

edit: that was in response to what you said in post 12, not 13, which seems to go along with this point.

[Michelle ma Belle]

This is very simple, you teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop and what you reinforce.

 

Start applying this philosophy and you'll demand more respect which means you'll attract a better group of men.

 

You're welcome.

[tuxedo cat]

TC -- The first step in attracting better (the right) guys is NOT tolerating that type of crap from the wrong ones... especially describing women in such derogatory ways.

 

How soon into your RL did he start doing this?

 

In one of our early conversations he jokingly implied most women are crazy and irrational. Those comments became more frequent and often revolved around his stories about an ex-stripper he was seeing last summer. I'm not only put off by how he describes her as a "disgusting degenerate," but that he ever got involved with her to begin with.

 

This is so sordid. Basically, he met an attractive 23-year-old girl on tinder (he's 34) who seemed normal in her profile. After their first date she invited him back to his place, where she informed him that she recently worked as a stripper and is currently in a poly relationship with an abusive, rich 60-year-old who used to be her therapist and now financially supports her... Even after knowing all this, my boyfriend continued to see her and said he became briefly infatuated because she gave him this sob story about her past that pulled at his heartstrings. She told him that she was falling for him after a couple of dates but then started to jerk him around and went off the rails when her older boyfriend introduced her to heroin (I know). At this point he *claims* he ended things and stopped responding to her messages. I've asked him many times to stop mentioning her but he says that he only brings her up because it's a "funny story" and I'm the only one who doesn't find it "entertaining." Whenever he mentions her name I say "I don't care" and he complains that I'm a "bad listener" because I interrupt his stories about her.

 

Unfortunately most of his friends are like him. His roommate and best friend is an enlightened guy, and they frequently spar as a result, but all of his other friends are Jersey bros who encourage this kind of sexist talk. He comes from a culture that is successful - his siblings are high-level doctors - but unrefined. Think real housewives of New Jersey types. Since he grew up this way, he has no clue he sounds piggish and gets angry if I ever complain. Another problem with his background is he is highly identified as Jewish and keeps trying to thrust his culture on me. I'm agnostic but celebrated Christian holidays growing up. He often says if we ever gets married he'd need me to convert, despite the fact that he is a non practicing Jew and never goes to temple. He says it's not about religion but being part of a "tribe." He even bought me this Jewish hand of god pendant and asked if I could wear it because he wants to make me Jewish. I have no problem with someone wanting to live in a certain tradition but it annoys me that he insists I convert for him. He says "why does it matter since you're not religious," and doesn't understand how converting would feel like giving up my own identity.

 

Writing this all out I can't believe I haven't ended it already.

Edited March 9, 2016 by tuxedo cat

[jen1447]

Another problem with his background is he is highly identified as Jewish and keeps trying to thrust his culture on me. I'm agnostic but celebrated Christian holidays growing up. He often says if we ever gets married he'd need me to convert, despite the fact that he is a non practicing Jew and never goes to temple.

 

That's funny ....reminds me of the atheist guy I dated for a while who patiently explained to me that if we ever got serious, I'd have to "upgrade" from agnosticism to atheism. He didn't take it well when I informed him that he'd actually have to give up his atheist 'faith' in order for me to take him seriously, and we were done dating not long after that.

[RJ2000]

This guy sounds like a total loser - any redeeming qualities whatsoever?

 

Dump him. You're going to feel a sense of relief once you do. Sounds like being with him causes you more stress than anything else.

 

The desire we all have to be with someone can be strong enough to cancel out your ability to recognize the stress generation that's going on.

[katiegrl]

In one of our early conversations he jokingly implied most women are crazy and irrational. Those comments became more frequent and often revolved around his stories about an ex-stripper he was seeing last summer. I'm not only put off by how he describes her as a "disgusting degenerate," but that he ever got involved with her to begin with.

 

This is so sordid. Basically, he met an attractive 23-year-old girl on tinder (he's 34) who seemed normal in her profile. After their first date she invited him back to his place, where she informed him that she recently worked as a stripper and is currently in a poly relationship with an abusive, rich 60-year-old who used to be her therapist and now financially supports her... Even after knowing all this, my boyfriend continued to see her and said he became briefly infatuated because she gave him this sob story about her past that pulled at his heartstrings. She told him that she was falling for him after a couple of dates but then started to jerk him around and went off the rails when her older boyfriend introduced her to heroin (I know). At this point he *claims* he ended things and stopped responding to her messages. I've asked him many times to stop mentioning her but he says that he only brings her up because it's a "funny story" and I'm the only one who doesn't find it "entertaining." Whenever he mentions her name I say "I don't care" and he complains that I'm a "bad listener" because I interrupt his stories about her.

 

Unfortunately most of his friends are like him. His roommate and best friend is an enlightened guy, and they frequently spar as a result, but all of his other friends are Jersey bros who encourage this kind of sexist talk. He comes from a culture that is successful - his siblings are high-level doctors - but unrefined. Think real housewives of New Jersey types. Since he grew up this way, he has no clue he sounds piggish and gets angry if I ever complain. Another problem with his background is he is highly identified as Jewish and keeps trying to thrust his culture on me. I'm agnostic but celebrated Christian holidays growing up. He often says if we ever gets married he'd need me to convert, despite the fact that he is a non practicing Jew and never goes to temple. He says it's not about religion but being part of a "tribe." He even bought me this Jewish hand of god pendant and asked if I could wear it because he wants to make me Jewish. I have no problem with someone wanting to live in a certain tradition but it annoys me that he insists I convert for him. He says "why does it matter since you're not religious," and doesn't understand how converting would feel like giving up my own identity.

 

Writing this all out I can't believe I haven't ended it already.

 

Try not to be so hard on yourself TC. In those early stages of infatuation, we can be blinded to these harsh realities that were always there, we just didn't want to see them...or couldn't see them due to how infatuated we were.

 

Three months in -- you are starting to wake up and see the real him.

 

Now that you've seen (and acknowledged) his true colors -- you can end it.

 

It's not like you stayed a year or longer -- if that had been the case, then you can beat yourself up.

 

But not after only three months. It's happened to all of us!

 

Lesson learned for next time. Try not to be so blinded by infatuation and keep it real from the beginning!

 

Wish you the best moving forward!!

[Zahara]

The thing is what you describe is an exception confirming the rule. At 42 the pool of available men/women without tons of baggage (ex spouses, baby mamas and daddies, idiosyncrasies because of decades living alone, illnesses etc) is minimal Fertility at 43 for a woman is at best 1% of the one she had at 20. Birth defects plummet (thankfully or not somewhat self-regulated by miscarriages - viable pregnancies over 40 are very small fraction of the total).

 

Also the midset - I'll look for better and won't settle creates very sad people. One of my good friends is like this during the day (she is 46). At night - she is drinking herself to death and crying over her choices I am all for NOT settle attitude but if and only if the person in question is willing and happy to accept the opportunity to remain childless and / or alone, because this possibility is big and real...

 

Of course, my friend is the exception to the rule. But that doesn't mean you have to stay in a toxic relationship. If your choices are between someone that has claimed to be a sociopath and has exhibited traits of negative behavior, I think the better choice would be to move on and take your chances. I'm not saying she will be guaranteed better by leaving but it will definitely save her from being in a destructive situation and who knows, with all hope provide her with better and healthier opportunities to have what she wants in the future. I'd rather take that risk than stay in a bad relationship.

 

Being in such a short relationship and already having to feel unfulfilled, unhappy and uncertain and wondering if she should just stick it out -- that's settling. That creates a very sad person in the long run. Your friend is your friend and I don't know her choices and why she decided to look for better rather than settle? I don't know her mindset or the reasons for her decisions.

 

But specifically to TC's post, she shouldn't have to stay in a relationship that is already detrimental to her, but even worse, a situation where there will come a time she will add children to the picture.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Zahara

[preraph]

Sounds charming. "Loving and loyal" will change these little disrespectful things for the right woman. Most men know not to act like a frat boy around women if they've had any kind of upbringing at all. And who wants to hitch their wagon to a dedicated slob. You have to look at that every day.

[Zahara]

Writing this all out I can't believe I haven't ended it already.

 

It's hard because you've grown emotionally attached to him. We tend to overlook the bad because when the good happens it takes us away from the reality of who we're with.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

In the future, the moment you see those red flags and behaviors that just do not sit right, pay attention to those feelings and thoughts. I think you already saw some of that in the beginning of your relationship. The longer you stay, the harder to detach. The sooner you get out, the faster you move on.

 

You'll do this when you are ready. I think you're getting there and seeing him for who he is, is a good thing because you're starting to use your head and you're starting to be aware.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Zahara

[Miss Peach]

Both you you are coming out of the honeymoon and seeing the real people. THIS is who he is; not the guy you thought you were getting the first three months. He will never turn back into the first guy.

[serial muse]

Writing this all out I can't believe I haven't ended it already.

 

Me too. C'mon, tux, you don't need this in your life.

[joseb]

I think you know that this has run its course.

It's easy to get wrapped up at the start, but you make it sound pretty clear that things are not good and you should end it.