Mr. Lucky Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 You should ask him straight up so that you know whether you are just coparents or partners. Speaking from experience, I'd doubt the OP's husband knows how he feels on a consistent basis, it can change from day to day or even hour to hour. He may vacillate between love and loathing or feel some version of both at the same time. And if their kids are young, asking what his plans are a decade from now when they turn 18 is even more useless. There's a lot of "making it up as you go along" at work here. These situations are deeply ironic in the worst kind of way - the OP wants the type of commitment, calculation and consideration she threw to the winds when hooking up with multiple AP's. That's a big ask... Mr. Lucky 2
Chi townD Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 I'm going to be completely honest with you. I think he's checking out of the marriage. Moving money around to separate accounts and it sounds like he's doing the 180 on you and he doesn't even know what that is. I think you need to talk to him and find out where this marriage is going. 2
TrustedthenBusted Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 I wish you the best of luck. But once you piss in the well, it will taste a little salty forever. 1
oldshirt Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 speaking personally for myself, there is no way I could remain with a woman who had 3-ways with another couple behind my back while I was home taking care of our child. IMHO he must have some kind of agenda for keeping you around. I think it would be wise on your part to find out what that agenda is and whether you want to be a part of it or not.
Horton Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 I had always been faithful to him and I believe he also was to me, and I tried to be a good wife to him, but as I threw myself into being a good mom, my priorities shifted and we were not on the same page anymore. When I first read your initial post, I saw a lot of blameshifting for how the affair started as many others here pointed out, but after rereading it I don't think that's the case(or at least not as much as it first appeared to be) What interested me the most was this part above that I quoted, this is actually the beginning of your marriage woes as you described them and you appear to be acknowledging that this all started when you(not your husband) changed after your child was born. So my question to you is this, what specifically about your new found priorities after becoming a mother did your husband react negatively to? What new things did you begin doing or old things that you no longer did anymore might have caused the two of you to no longer be on the same page? It was in that chaos side of our life that my affair began. It started with a drunken threesome with my codependent best friend and her boyfriend. When I woke up the next day I was destroyed by what I'd allowed to happen. Never in a million years did I think I would ever do something like that. I couldn't make myself do the right thing and tell my husband about it, though the guilt ate at me like acid. I resolved to never let it happen again, and to take it to my grave that it ever did, but almost a year later it did happen again, and I hated myself and I turned to my meds and alcohol even more to numb out and trudge through. I kept my husband in the dark about it like a rat, knowing we'd lose everything if he knew and not wanting to put my son through a divorce. We had a functional home life without fighting or anything on the surface that affected him negatively and I just wanted to keep it that way I guess but obviously I was in an unnatural fog of drugs, alcohol and toxic relationships that became a second life where I justified my repeat offenses and separated them from my public identity. These offenses became an on and off affair between my friend's boyfriend and me, which we conducted behind her back when we'd all get drunk at their house, after she passed out. Each time it happened, I promised myself it never would again, but over the course of a couple years, it happened several times and I foolishly developed feelings for the OM as my investment in my broken marriage waned and my husband grew ever more distant and cold. I say this next part not to dissuade you from attempting to reconcile, but to perhaps help you see your situation a little differently cause sometimes it's helpful to have somebody else looking in from the outside give us a different view that we cannot see ourselves while walking in our own little mazes. Your affair is one of the worst I've seen, I don't say that as a criticism, but merely stating a fact. The sky is blue and your affair was truly heinous, even more so than the typical affair we see on here and other places like this forum. If you don't believe me then I'd suggest that you take some time to read other people's stories and see just how few WW's ever get to the point of having alcohol/drug fueled threesomes with their friends. The few that you will find are almost certain to have only occurred once, yours went on for years. My point being, this is not the norm for affairs. The only things you could have done that would have been more shattering to your husbands view of himself as a man, lover and your partner would be if you had either tricked him into raising the OM's child or cheated with somebody very close to him like his best friend, sibling, etc. I'm telling you these things cause I don't think you fully grasp how much the porno level depravity of you having threesomes with your GF and her BF completely emasculated your BH. What the three of you did behind his back has irrevocably changed him. I believe you genuinely do feel bad and that you're sincere in wanting to fix this, but I also suspect that you have worked hard to detach from the negative emotions you naturally would feel when thinking about this aspect of your situation(the breaking of the BH) which is a perfectly natural reaction when we are going through trauma, even if it is self inflicted trauma. I don't agree with the posters who are basically saying that it's already over and that you should see a lawyer asap, but I think they are really just reacting to both you and your husband's lack of desire to fully invest in fixing this mess. Some have pointed out his sudden disinterest in monitoring you as a sign that he's just about finished with this, but I get the feeling that you are also on the brink of throwing in the towel due to your "veiled threats" about leaving the marriage if it's never gonna be the loving, close marriage that you used to have. You're using your child as a shield IMO by claiming that it's really about him not having to witness an unhappy marriage and thus taint his future relationships with women, but I think you're overstating that as a way of giving yourself an "out" and if I can see that from here you can imagine that your husband sees it too. He has likely giving you more than a few sh*t tests to see if you're really in this for the long haul or not and I think you may have failed enough of those to cause him to not believe you're all that sincere in wanting to help him through this no matter what. Of course he already knows the "no matter what" part is not the case since you're already giving out ultimatums not even 2 years into this thing, even less time than your affair lasted. It finally all came out in 2014 when we were inevitably caught and my husband of course was devastated, my close friendship with my best friend, who was by then having her own LTA with s coworker, was completely severed and I found myself reaping the harvest of horrible karma I'd been earning all those months, completely alone and wanting to die. How did you get caught, did BH catch you or your GF? Was it in the act or by way of some less traumatic means? My husband decided to stay and try to rebuild with me after I finally admitted to everything, provided all the sordid details, expressed remorse and agreed to go off my meds altogether and abstain from drinking entirely. My husband said he stayed because he is a man who keeps his word and even though I'd broken my vows, he wanted to try to keep his until he felt there was no other choice. I believe this was a genuine desire, but I also have felt that a major part of his decision had to do with the financial detriment of divorce, and his equal desire to avoid putting our child through divorce. I don't doubt that those factors did play a large role in his decision to reconcile with you. Truth be told if their were no more children and no such thing as alimony, unfair divorce laws then I believe that hardly any man would choose to reconcile. If you read enough stories on sites like these you'll find that most BH's who did stay will openly admit if there were no kids and no devastating financial losses they would have disappeared overnight. You said you "finally" admitted to everything in the quote above. Just how long did you TT(trickle truth) him before giving him the whole story? This could be a large part of his hesitation in completely reinvesting in the marriage with you. I did cut off all contact with my AP and focused on achieving sobriety and recovering the person I was before I strayed from my path, and we started marriage counseling but of course it was extremely difficult for us both. We were both depressed and scared and scarred. My husband installed spyware on my devices and restricted my social interaction to family and 12 step meetings. I wanted to do whatever he asked to make it as easy as possible on him and show him my determination to make things right, but it has been a very lonely and bleak time, and we've been on a constant roller coaster of ups and downs ever since. Congratulations on your continued sobriety, even if things don't end well with your marriage your kid will always need his mother to be healthy for him. This past late fall/winter, my husband displayed an apparent shift in his process of recovery. He stopped obsessing about and monitoring my behavior as closely, and seemed to have found some peace about the past and to be more optimistic and invested in the future. I was initially relieved and encouraged, but soon those feelings were replaced by a new sense of doom and doubt. As his process of healing seemed to progress, his own personal life became more opaque and hidden from me. He started texting and emailing from new private accounts, moving money around and storing it in accounts in only his name, and planning investments with partners, and on a couple occasions I found out he'd lied or omitted the truth about where he'd been and what he was doing. He also lost interest in counseling and suggested I continue to see our therapist alone. He has been unapologetic about these things and in moved to reassure me, only saying that I am being irrational, ungrateful and that if I am unhappy I should speak to the therapist about it. Then recently I found phone numbers for local escorts in his phone. He said he didn't know how they got there, that he hadn't hired prostitutes, and that it angered him I was snooping around. When I explained that I have been snooping because he doesn't talk to me anymore, he said he doesn't because I can't handle hearing negative things and again suggested that I deal with my concerns in therapy. Suffice to say that nobody winds up with escorts numbers in their contact list by accident. That doesn't mean that he's absolutely crossed that line yet, but I think it's safe to say that he's looked into it, probably as a misguided and foolish attempt to soothe his shattered ego after being metaphorically castrated. Not excusing him, but I can't say that I'm shocked nor should you be quite frankly. While you have no right to hold him to a higher standard than you held yourself to, his son doesn't deserve to have two parents engaging in immoral and destructive behaviors, he's completely innocent in this situation. Am I really so irrational if I'm doubtful and worried about his behavior? I am so terrified thinking it may just be coming down to either having to live like strangers pretending to be in a loving marriage or getting divorced. I feel like he's given up on rebuilding and is just investing in himself now, only keeping me around for our child's sake and to avoid loss of assets. I don't know how to pull him back in and get him to fight for what I know we can have. I will never let drugs and alcohol control my life and make my choices for me again. I will never be unfaithful again. I have no desire for any of those things. I have acquired the tools to manage without those crutches and false escapes and I'm putting them to use, but is it all too late? Thanks for reading. You're not being irrational in your fears, not at all. He likely is being at least somewhat shady behind your back, not necessarily cheating, but possibly getting his ducks in a row for a new life down the road after the child is on his own as others have suggested. I think you need to have a long and honest discussion with him asap. If not this will only fester and keep getting worse for the both of you. A talk doesn't mean that you grovel and kiss his boots nor does it mean you throw any more veiled threats about leaving if things don't go the way you want them to, that's manipulation and it will only make him trust you less than he already does. Just be honest with him, tell him you're afraid of losing your family and reassure him that you really do want him as your husband, but let him know that his behavior is scaring you and that you're worried about your son and his future. The second worst thing you can do is bury your head in the sand and hope things magically get better on their own cause they never do, the worst thing you can do is to just run away and leave him standing there with the mess you made. That would be showing your son a far more unhealthy view of relationships than merely staying in a boring roommate marriage ever could. By leaving now and not staying and fighting until the end for the marriage and family that you once threw away you'll only be teaching him that vows mean nothing and our own personal happiness/contentment should be our primary concern in life. The same lesson that your affair itself teaches. This time around you should think long and hard about what kind of example you want to set for him before you make any decisions that can never be undone. As much as nobody in your shoes wants to hear it "you broke it, you bought it" does apply here IMO.
velvette Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 There is so much going on in your marriage. I'm going to offer some thoughts, but I honestly have no idea what you should do first. First, there is no way escort phone numbers end up in someones phone accidentally, so at some point you need to tell him you don't believe his explanation and demand an answer. Maybe he hasn't used them yet and they are just some kind of insurance that makes him feel better somehow. I dunno. I would keep an eye on what he is doing. Second, resentment is the death of love and the death of love is the death of marriage. Both of you from your description of what happened after your son was born were resentful. That resentment brought your marriage to its knees. While it was on life support, you pulled the plug and killed it with your A. Your original marriage is dead. You need to create a new marriage or go your separate ways. No one wants to get married unless they are in love(barring exceptions I don't think apply here). Forget all the ways you have hurt and disappointed each other. Go back to the beginning. How did you treat each other when you fell in love. Most likely you spent every possible waking moment together meeting each others needs. Sex, talking, admiring each other, making each other feel safe and wanted, envisioning a future you both wanted, spending fun times together, supporting each others dreams, etc. What does he need from you. Ask him or think about it from your knowledge of him. What do you need from him. Tell him. Spend lots of time together meeting each others most important needs. Fall in love with him and make him fall in love with you. Forget all the other stuff for now. Talk about what you want your new marriage to look like. Talk about what you want your future to look like. Establish a safe space with each other before you tackle the mess you have made out of your original marriage. You definitely need to learn how to communicate, because your failure to do so effectively in the first place is what led to all the resentment that destroyed your marriage. At some point, you need to convince your H that you are capable of listening to whatever he has to say no matter how hurtful because he needs a place to vent the anger/pain that he feels. You caused it and you need to take it away to the extent you can by listening to it. As for the money, that is not ok. Its not ok for him to be taking marital assets and squirreling them away in private accounts or making investments he doesn't discuss with you unless that's the way you have always operated and you are ok with that. You need to have a discussion with him and talk about what an amicable divorce would look like if that's what he wants or that's what he is worried about. You have to be willing to love him enough to lose this marriage if that's what he needs and work with him to make it amicable and healthy for your son. I honestly don't know what order all this stuff needs to happen in. I tend to think the most urgent thing is to create the space for the two of you to fall in love with each other again. If you loved each other when you married, its entirely possible and it will go a long way to solving everything else. Good luck.
Marc878 Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Some just cannot make it and over time decide to end the marriage. This maybe what's happening. Getting ready for that day.
Just a Guy Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Hi Jane, your story makes for sad reading indeed. Having read your OP and the replies of other posters as your thread developed including your own clarifying on points raised by others I believe you are genuine in your desire to save your marriage and that you ate doing all you possibly could towards that end with all the sincerity at your command. There is a lot of truth and valuable advice given by so many posters that you need to take on board. However, in my opinion all this advice will do you good in your effort to heal and improve on yourself for the future. In my opinion there is very little that you can do for your current relationship. It is on life support and the moment these are removed it will die in a minute. You cannot, as others have said so often on other threads, reconcile if only one partner is invested in preserving the marriage. Your husband has left the room a long time ago and the sooner you accept this fact the better for both of you. I can only wish you the very best for the future and hope that you wake up and smell the coffee as soon as possible. Cheers!
Mr Blunt Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) By janedoe He did finally admit that he doesn't think it is likely we will ever have the marriage I want for us, but that he doesn't feel like what we do have is so bad and would like me to join him in accepting that and making the most of it. If he is telling you the truth then you now have enough clarity to make a decision for yourself. Are you willing to settle for what you and your husband now have? If you are then you need to keep working on yourself for years so that you keep improving in many areas. In addition, you can get that book that Ms. John Adams suggested “How to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda MacDonald”, if you want to try and win your husband back to a deeper relationship. Ms. Adams has a 30+ year post affair successful R and I always listen to someone that has a long history of success. I know that there is no guarantee that your husband will respond correctly to your years of improvements but you can only change you and hope that he responds with a deeper relationship to you. Frankly, I think that the only chance that you have for the marriage to improve a lot is for you to endure your pain and be determined and disciplined to keep improving yourself in mind, body, spirit and emotions for many years. If he is in an affair then the chances are slim to none that you will ever have the relationship with him that you want. You both have a lot to overcome with your betrayal experiences that involve drugs, alcohol, be-sexual infidelity, 2 year-affair, and being caught as opposed to you confessing, etc. However, I have read of some affairs that were horrible and they recovered enough to have a good marriage. Those recovered had BOTH marriage partners working hard for YEARS. Do not set your goals for a GREAT marriage because that is way too high of a goal right now. You need to set realistic reachable goals. You failed to address your resentments properly before the affair and that can be a lesson for those that have not crossed the line. RESENTMENTS BEFORE AN AFFAIR MUST BE ADDRESSED! Resentments that lead to betrayal always breed a life of regret. People will either believe that before they have an affair or they will defiantly believe it after the affair. If you keep improving then you can have a good life with or without your marriage being what you want and even if your marriage ends. Edited March 8, 2016 by Mr Blunt
aliveagain Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 The most successful step in moving past an affair is knowing that both parties in the marriage are committed and open to fixing things. That's all of it. Be honest, transparent and find a way to rekindle the passion, date nights with just the two of you every week is strongly recommended. Because of the level of your betrayal please consider my recommendation in a earlier post, that you offer him a post nuptial agreement giving him most of the marriage assets if you divorce because of a new infidelity by you and the option of you taking a polygraph anytime he feels doubts about your fidelity. 3
Liam1 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 H His job at the time was very stressful, and he resented my failure to earn much income while I was caring for our baby. I in turn grew to resent him for not recognizing the value of my contribution to our family as a work-from-home mom. I felt taken for granted and he felt I was taking advantage of him. I became insecure in our relationship for the first time since its tender beginnings and he grew distant and angry. IMO, this part upsets me. I think your husband sounds unrealistic. I do agree that he did not respect your duties at home. I took care of my nieces and nephews one summer while I was on sabbatical, and my sister was out of the country for work. Boy was that the most difficult job. .....It was a lot of work and constant anxiety that they did not stick their fingers in a socket or eat the dog's food or whatever. Has his part in making you feel less than, been addressed in counseling. IMO, for a marriage to work after an affair, and after the affair is dealt with, the BS, needs to look at their part in the break down of the marriage. Sometimes the BS did nothing wrong, but other times, they did. If they did, they need to step up and acknowledge this.
Cobra_X Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 As his process of healing seemed to progress, his own personal life became more opaque and hidden from me. He started texting and emailing from new private accounts, moving money around and storing it in accounts in only his name, and planning investments with partners, and on a couple occasions I found out he'd lied or omitted the truth about where he'd been and what he was doing. He also lost interest in counseling and suggested I continue to see our therapist alone. Then recently I found phone numbers for local escorts in his phone. He said he didn't know how they got there, that he hadn't hired prostitutes, and that it angered him I was snooping around. When I explained that I have been snooping because he doesn't talk to me anymore, he said he doesn't because I can't handle hearing negative things and again suggested that I deal with my concerns in therapy. Some guys are very concerned with fairness. I'm generally one of those, so I understand it. Escorts would be a safe and unemotional way to feel like things are fair. Playing around with the idea doesn't mean it has happened... also doesn't mean it won't happen. I'm not sure it matters though. I mean saying different would mean it's Ok for you to cheat but not him. He is also walling you off emotionally. That's what you do when someone hurts you. If he pushes you away and you leave... that just proves you are a crap person and never really loved him. That's the thinking. He is saving himself from the next time you go cheating AND testing you. I've been through this, so I know how it goes. You better want this marriage real bad, because he may need to hurt you as deep as you hurt him in order to rebuild.
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