What would you do?

[Janedoh]

Hi, WW here, 1.5 years post-affair. H and I have been together since we were 19, married at 26 and had our first child at 29. Friendship was and has been our foundation since the beginning. Though we are very different in a lot of ways, we found that our differences complimented each other far more than they conflicted and though we had our moments, our partnership was overall a well-oiled machine for the first 10 years.

 

But after our son was born, we experienced an imbalance for the first time that rocked our boat pretty hard, creating stress and resentment. It crept in so slowly, and we were so busy with work and parenting that its roots were deep and incredibly tangled by the time we finally acknowledged them.

 

I had always been faithful to him and I believe he also was to me, and I tried to be a good wife to him, but as I threw myself into being a good mom, my priorities shifted and we were not on the same page anymore. His job at the time was very stressful, and he resented my failure to earn much income while I was caring for our baby. I in turn grew to resent him for not recognizing the value of my contribution to our family as a work-from-home mom. I felt taken for granted and he felt I was taking advantage of him. I became insecure in our relationship for the first time since its tender beginnings and he grew distant and angry.

 

I took on more work to please him, caring for multiple small children in addition to ours out of our home full time. Then we bought a house and while trying to juggle the stressful moving process while still operating a demanding home business, I made the disastrous decision to up my dose of ADD medication, which gave me energy to manage everything on my plate, but also led me to an eventual existence on an unnatural plane where my husband couldn't reach me. It also led to excessive drinking, which took the edge off the stimulants at the end of the day and allowed me to sleep, though I still kept late hours, either tweaking out on my business or drinking with my best friend at my house or hers, who was also abusing meds in effort to manage her own stressful life.

 

My husband wasn't thrilled with this lifestyle but I was making more money and keeping the house clean and being a hands-on mom, and he was busy working as many hours as possible to make the kind of money he needed to achieve his lifelong financial goals, so we existed in this sort of chaotic harmony, often like ships in the night, together but also separate.

 

It was in that chaos side of our life that my affair began. It started with a drunken threesome with my codependent best friend and her boyfriend. When I woke up the next day I was destroyed by what I'd allowed to happen. Never in a million years did I think I would ever do something like that. I couldn't make myself do the right thing and tell my husband about it, though the guilt ate at me like acid. I resolved to never let it happen again, and to take it to my grave that it ever did, but almost a year later it did happen again, and I hated myself and I turned to my meds and alcohol even more to numb out and trudge through. I kept my husband in the dark about it like a rat, knowing we'd lose everything if he knew and not wanting to put my son through a divorce. We had a functional home life without fighting or anything on the surface that affected him negatively and I just wanted to keep it that way I guess but obviously I was in an unnatural fog of drugs, alcohol and toxic relationships that became a second life where I justified my repeat offenses and separated them from my public identity. These offenses became an on and off affair between my friend's boyfriend and me, which we conducted behind her back when we'd all get drunk at their house, after she passed out. Each time it happened, I promised myself it never would again, but over the course of a couple years, it happened several times and I foolishly developed feelings for the OM as my investment in my broken marriage waned and my husband grew ever more distant and cold.

 

It finally all came out in 2014 when we were inevitably caught and my husband of course was devastated, my close friendship with my best friend, who was by then having her own LTA with s coworker, was completely severed and I found myself reaping the harvest of horrible karma I'd been earning all those months, completely alone and wanting to die.

 

My husband decided to stay and try to rebuild with me after I finally admitted to everything, provided all the sordid details, expressed remorse and agreed to go off my meds altogether and abstain from drinking entirely. My husband said he stayed because he is a man who keeps his word and even though I'd broken my vows, he wanted to try to keep his until he felt there was no other choice. I believe this was a genuine desire, but I also have felt that a major part of his decision had to do with the financial detriment of divorce, and his equal desire to avoid putting our child through divorce.

 

I did cut off all contact with my AP and focused on achieving sobriety and recovering the person I was before I strayed from my path, and we started marriage counseling but of course it was extremely difficult for us both. We were both depressed and scared and scarred. My husband installed spyware on my devices and restricted my social interaction to family and 12 step meetings. I wanted to do whatever he asked to make it as easy as possible on him and show him my determination to make things right, but it has been a very lonely and bleak time, and we've been on a constant roller coaster of ups and downs ever since.

 

This past late fall/winter, my husband displayed an apparent shift in his process of recovery. He stopped obsessing about and monitoring my behavior as closely, and seemed to have found some peace about the past and to be more optimistic and invested in the future. I was initially relieved and encouraged, but soon those feelings were replaced by a new sense of doom and doubt. As his process of healing seemed to progress, his own personal life became more opaque and hidden from me. He started texting and emailing from new private accounts, moving money around and storing it in accounts in only his name, and planning investments with partners, and on a couple occasions I found out he'd lied or omitted the truth about where he'd been and what he was doing. He also lost interest in counseling and suggested I continue to see our therapist alone.

 

He has been unapologetic about these things and in moved to reassure me, only saying that I am being irrational, ungrateful and that if I am unhappy I should speak to the therapist about it.

 

Then recently I found phone numbers for local escorts in his phone. He said he didn't know how they got there, that he hadn't hired prostitutes, and that it angered him I was snooping around. When I explained that I have been snooping because he doesn't talk to me anymore, he said he doesn't because I can't handle hearing negative things and again suggested that I deal with my concerns in therapy.

 

Am I really so irrational if I'm doubtful and worried about his behavior? I am so terrified thinking it may just be coming down to either having to live like strangers pretending to be in a loving marriage or getting divorced. I feel like he's given up on rebuilding and is just investing in himself now, only keeping me around for our child's sake and to avoid loss of assets. I don't know how to pull him back in and get him to fight for what I know we can have.

 

I will never let drugs and alcohol control my life and make my choices for me again. I will never be unfaithful again. I have no desire for any of those things. I have acquired the tools to manage without those crutches and false escapes and I'm putting them to use, but is it all too late?

 

Thanks for reading.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me begin by sharing with you that i too am a FWW and two years after my very brief affair...my husband had a revenge affair.

 

So I understand where you are coming from....except I have never had issue with pills and alcohol.

 

I do want to know what you are looking for from Loveshack. Support....answers....validation....

 

People come here for a variety of reasons and sometimes when we know what it is you need....the help comes quicker.

 

People around here can be very tough on a WW. Grow some thick skin....and pay attention only to the comments that are applicable to your situation. Be honest in your answers.

[Satu]

snip

*I will never let drugs and alcohol control my life and make my choices for me again. I will never be unfaithful again. I have no desire for any of those things. I have acquired the tools to manage without those crutches and false escapes and I'm putting them to use, but is it all too late?

Thanks for reading.

 

Its never too late to become the best of yourself.

 

Thats what your focus should be.

 

The past is gone and the future is unknown.

 

Act with goodwill and good faith, and you will create the best of all possible outcomes.

 

 

Take care.

[heartwhole]

What I've learned from my husband's affair is that if a marriage is to be a true partnership, then both spouses must be open with everything. Because of our personalities, I know my husband doesn't want to pore over every detail of my visits to websites like this or the journal I've kept of my feelings during this stressful time. I know he doesn't feel the need to read my text messages or to check to make sure I don't have secret friends. But he could. He knows my passwords; I don't hide anything. So I don't see why your husband thinks it's OK for him to have secrets, but not for you. What is he, your father or your husband?

 

Clearly the fact that he has the numbers of escorts on his phone is a concern, and I would immediately, for your own safety, be tested for STIs and begin abstaining from sex with him, or at least making sure it is protected.

 

Just remember that just as what kind of a husband he was didn't excuse your actions in the past, your unfaithfulness does not excuse what he is doing. Those are his bad choices, and his alone. It sounds like he never really adequately dealt with your infidelity since he moved right from obsessive monitoring to acting out himself. If your marriage is to have a chance (assuming he has the capacity and desire to reconcile), then I think you will have to dig deep to build an entirely new foundation.

 

It sounds like you are in the early stages here and I'm sure more discoveries are to come. Good luck as you navigate everything. Do what you need to do to protect yourself both physically and financially. You have overcome a lot already and you are strong enough to handle whatever comes of this.

[Janedoh]

I really appreciate all of your generous words and advice. I understand and expect that not all of those who read my post will be as warm or objective, but I am prepared to endure any harsh words or judgement. No stranger's opinion could make me feel worse than I already do about myself, or discourage me from wanting to do everything I can to save my marriage.

 

As for what I am looking for here, it is mainly an effort to unload some of these cumbersome thoughts and fears I carry with me all of the time, and just know they've been heard. My husband does not want to hear them, and I have no close friends or private lines of communication with anyone except my therapist, whom I can't afford to see as often as I need. Whether I deserve relief from these thoughts and worries is irrelevant when my son and the other people who rely on me deserve a mother/family member/employee who is present and sane, rather than an unstable mess of constant anxiety. I used to journal a lot to ease this load, but since my husband reads that too, it has become another source of contention between us rather than the safe place for unpacking and sorting out that I needed it to be. I could call someone from my AA meeting, but that too makes my husband nervous if he doesn't know them, or know what's being said.

 

Sure, I'd also kill for someone to tell me that these fears I have are irrational and only a result of being stuck in my own head for too long, but I know that's not realistic. It just helps to organize these thoughts into words and share them with people who have no personal investment in me but know what it's like to be living with the aftermath of infidelity.

 

I appreciate any advice or opinion that is offered as well, even if it's hard to hear.

 

Thank you so much for listening.

[Clay]

Did your husband know your AP ? Was it a friend of the family or a co worker? How long were you in your affair? If your AP was a co worker did you quit? Is there a possibility your husband thinks your still hiding something. Are you gone at times that are unexplained. What I am thinking is there is something that is still pushing him.

 

At some point in time the need to keep checking up on you should slowly fade. If he is still checking up on you and monitoring you then you need to stop and reevaluate what your doing to make him feel uncomfortable.

 

Most BS's go through a period where they start looking at other options. I know I did. I would keep a eye on him but I wouldn't follow to close. The last think you want to do is to start another problem when your still trying to fix this one.

 

His lack of compassion for you does bother me. I think that really is a sign of when people are moving towards indifference. Once that really sets in and he sees it for what it is he will start planning a life with out you.

 

I would ask him if he would make some time to sit down and discuss these things. I would ask him to please write a list of the things that are really bothering him. Try to get him to open up and seriously hear him out. If there are things you can work on with him then that is a start to turn things around. If you can try to also see if he would be interesting in marriage counseling.

 

I wish you the best luck. I know how incredibly painful of a process this is.

 

C

[Midwestmissy]

What stands out the most in this story is your husband saying you can't handle bad news so he doesn't communicate anymore. I'm a bs - this is a trigger for me, my wh did this a lot - "I'm forced to lie and hide things from you, you unstable mess - you can't handle the truth."

 

He's blaming you for something he's doing. Fact is, HE can't handle the consequences of the truth. You're driving him to be deceitful. It's crazy making.

[aliveagain]

Just a couple of questions. Did your husband know you were bisexual? If your husband asked you for a threesome with your girlfriend or someone else, would you give it to him? Would watching him go all porn star on another woman bother you? I ask this because these are the mind movies he is having.

 

Just my opinion but I think your husband is feeling very left out in the dark. Every time the four of you got together, everyone but him knew the truth. Hard to get over something like that. With your history since age 19 he probably tried to make sense of a very fu*ked up situation but couldn't and your actions have proven that he doesn't know who you really are. You both lived through the same hardships, you cheated, he didn't. Having an affair is one thing but threesomes are a whole something else because it has nothing to do with love, just kinky sex and it went on a long time. If I was your husband I too would have a hard time understanding why you did this to him.

 

Your husbands actions scream "I'm leaving." You need to find a way to make him feel safe because everything you described says he's getting his ducks in a row.

Edited March 7, 2016 by aliveagain

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree with Midwestmissy.....and worry that he is involved in his own betrayal.

 

It is a very difficult thing....being a cheater....and then becoming the betrayed.

Ultimately we know that our own behavior is to blame for the position we find ourselves in....yet...we also know that each of us is responsible for our own choices. There are several people here that walk this same walk.....we each handle our situations differently.....and even disagree about our own reactions.

 

I know you have been in therapy together. But I want to recommend for you a book that truly changed my life. How to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda MacDonald. It is 95 pages long and free downloads are available. I suggest it because I think it can help your understanding of HIS dilemma. I think it might help you to understand where he is mentally...and why he might be making some of the choices he is.

 

It takes 2-5 years to begin to heal from a betrayal....once everything has been addressed....and you have barely begun the process....if indeed everything has been dealt with properly.

 

your on going was affair was discovered...not confessed. First strike against you..... and it was an affair that continued for quite some time. You declare remorse...but remorse is very different from being sorry. Remorse is an action...it is understanding the pain you have caused and the effort made to do anything and everything required to help your spouse deal with that pain. Transparency for both of you is the first step to rebuilding the trust you have destroyed.

 

Your situation is then compounded by drug and alcohol addiction. One wonders and worries of the affect all of this has been on your children.

 

Obviously communication is stressed at best....and life seems to be existing rather than sharing. It appears that there are many issues and dynamics here....and I would recommend seeking professional help individually so you can get your bearings to deal with the whole situation.

 

there are lots of terrific folks here on Loveshack.....with great insight that will share with you. Take it all in...and use what helps.

[Joie]

I am a BS and my H and I are trying to reconcile. We are several months in and it is going well....here are my thoughts.

 

 

First, reconciliation is hard. I am in favor of saving a marriage if possible. However, I think that LOVE is needed for reconciliation. I fully understand wanting to stay together for the children. That is always a factor. However, if you no longer have love I don't think reconciliation will work. You don't have to be madly in love at this moment but it still needs to be there under the surface. A spark that you can use to relight a fire.

 

Second, even as a BS I think you need an outlet for your thoughts. Everyone needs something. My H has a few male friends. I don't ask them what he says. You need to be able to let out your private thoughts. I think you need to be able to journal without him looking. You need to be able to go to AA without him being upset.

 

My suggest -- ask him what you can do to help earn his trust but still work on your sobriety. If you need to go to AA maybe you can find a female sponsor. Tell him that you will let him know that you are calling or meeting your sponsor but that you can't disclose what you talk about. Transparency is important but not the only step to earning trust.

 

HUGS!

[Janedoh]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, H knew my AP, friend of the family. The affair was off and on over about 2 years.

 

I think H feels confident that I'm no longer in contact with the AP. Things ended in an explosion of fire that burned any bridges between us, even if I wanted to cross them (I don't.) and not only does H know that, but he's known about every text, call, email, web activity, etc. that I engage in and he also has tracked everywhere I've gone so I think he has no doubt that I'm being faithful, but he still doubts my general integrity and feels better knowing he can see everything I do, even if he doesn't check as often anymore.

 

He did walk into the room earlier when I was writing my last reply, and when he asked what I was doing, I told him and he was angry because I hadn't volunteered that I was posting here or that I was dealing with troubling thoughts. I told him honestly that he should assume I am dealing with troubling thoughts unless I tell him otherwise, and that he could read it if he wanted and that I only hadn't notified him I was posting here because of our recent discussions where he intimated that he didn't want to be "dragged along on my emotional roller coaster" and that I should discuss things with my therapist instead of looking to him to make me feel better.

 

He said I had misunderstood that he doesn't want to hear about it and that he did want to talk, but he quickly became angry and reverted to reminding me of why he doesn't trust me and how I have no reason or right to doubt him and that he believes I look for things he's done wrong because I want to find them, not because I want to reassure myself there's nothing to worry about. I don't know why he thinks that but I can't convince him how wrong that assumption is.

 

He did finally admit that he doesn't think it is likely we will ever have the marriage I want for us, but that he doesn't feel like what we do have is so bad and would like me to join him in accepting that and making the most of it.

 

I told him that I can't accept a lifetime of partnership where there isn't trust or mutual respect and love and he said that just because we accept that now doesn't mean it will never get better and I told him I just am scared that he has closed off and in doing so limited the chances of improving on that and he just said he didn't agree and that he is already relying on faith more than I seem to appreciate and he would like that from me too. I know that nothing will be accomplished by fretting about the things I don't know or that he denies, but I am having trouble letting go of the things he wants me to and he is uninterested in holding onto the things I want him to so we're in quite a pickle but at least we talked about it.

[Mr. Lucky]

I really appreciate all of your generous words and advice. I understand and expect that not all of those who read my post will be as warm or objective, but I am prepared to endure any harsh words or judgement. No stranger's opinion could make me feel worse than I already do about myself, or discourage me from wanting to do everything I can to save my marriage.

 

I'm probably going to fall into the category of "not warm". Funny how you seem to imply a critical view is less than objective.

 

I wonder if your situation is driven by the fact your H feels you've never fully taken responsibility for your A or done the true work of recovery?

 

To me, your post is full of excuses, deflection and rationalization. There's only a one word descriptor of how your H felt - "devastated" - but yards of prose on the factors you seem to feel made your choices for you. You also question what his desire for reconciliation and forgiveness is based on after having done everything possible - threesomes, affair, drug use, deception, etc - to kill any bond between you. Hell no, his decision to stay in the marriage probably isn't driven by love for you.

 

My husband installed spyware on my devices and restricted my social interaction to family and 12 step meetings. I wanted to do whatever he asked to make it as easy as possible on him and show him my determination to make things right, but it has been a very lonely and bleak time, and we've been on a constant roller coaster of ups and downs ever since.

 

This past late fall/winter, my husband displayed an apparent shift in his process of recovery. He stopped obsessing about and monitoring my behavior as closely, and seemed to have found some peace about the past and to be more optimistic and invested in the future.

 

You also seem to chafe at the transparency any BS would desperately need. Is he paranoid? Possibly. Would I be in his shoes? Definitely...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sam59]

Jane,

 

I am a BH and 2 Years past D-day. I think we have reconciled.

 

That said I will never completely trust her again !

[Mrs. John Adams]

You have not reconciled....you are reconciling....and you will be doing so the rest of your life.

[TX-SC]

Did you have sex with your friend during these threeways or did you focus on the OM? If it was a bisexual threeway, then you cheated with TWO people, not just one. Then when you cheated with her SO, you sank even lower. The reality is that you did some very bad things to your husband. Try to imagine if this were reversed and your husband had a threesome with two otherpeople. How would you feel?Have you ever hada threesome with your husband and another woman? Many men fantasize about that. Instead, you gave it to someone else. Pretty low!

 

All that aside, you need to simply keep going and keep showing your H that you are safe. If your H is seeing prostitutes, that will be a huge problem. But perhaps he isn't. Cheaters often assume others will cheat too and project their insecurities on others.

[Mr. Lucky]

I told him that I can't accept a lifetime of partnership where there isn't trust or mutual respect

 

A pretty disingenuous statement for a WS 18 months into recovery. Think about how "trust and mutual respect" took such a huge hit in the first place ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Janedoh]

Thank you for your reply Mr. Lucky. I did not mean to imply that critical perspectives of my situation are simply lacking objective. I listed warm and objective as two of the descriptions I'd observed in other responses, and only wanted to express that I don't expect the benefit of those things (together or individually), given my transgressions.

 

I take full responsibility for my horrific choices and the circumstances that have resulted. I do not intend or wish to make excuses for those choices, only to include as much detail in my story as possible so as to convey it accurately. I feel that without the effect of substances, toxic relationships and growing resentment in my marriage, I would not have been unfaithful to my spouse, but I made the conscious choice to use those substances, engage in those relationships, and escape rather than confront those resentments, so the fault is entirely my own and I fully expect to deal with the guilt, shame and regret that resulted from those choices for the rest of my life.

 

I don't disagree that it shouldn't surprise me if my husband is not driven by love to stay married to me. But regardless of what I want or deserve, do you think it is healthy for him or our child to stay for any other reason?

 

I do not resent his need for transparency from me. What concerns me (wouldn't say chafes) is his need to keep things from me.

 

Whether I am entitled to transparency from him is moot. HE is entitled to a marriage where he doesn't have to feel the need to hide anything, and our child is entitled to a healthy representation of marriage. I failed them both on that and am doing everything I can to make up for it and provide those things for them. I'm just afraid that it's too late and that we might be doing more harm than good by staying married.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't disagree that it shouldn't surprise me if my husband is not driven by love to stay married to me. But regardless of what I want or deserve, do you think it is healthy for him or our child to stay for any other reason?

 

Why have you stayed since DDay?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Janedoh]

@Mr. Lucky

[Janedoh]

I do not need to stay in the marriage for financial reasons.

[Janedoh]

To be honest, the threesomes are a blur. I was black-out drunk or nearly on each occasion and I can recall only disjointed and muddled details, but it was indeed all 3 of us and so yes, my former friend was initially an AP too.

 

I have given a great deal of thought to how I would react if these betrayals were H's instead of mine. I can only guess, as even the deepest and most conscious empathy cannot compare to being in the actual situation, but I think that if roles were reversed, I would be motivated to try and reconcile, but that most likely a divorce would be inevitable.

[Mr. Lucky]

@Mr. Lucky

 

Because I love him and he gave me a second chance to prove that

 

Then I'd hope you'd understand that, given the history, might take more than 18 months to convince him of that.

 

At the very least, you'll need a thicker skin. There will be certain things he'll struggle with for a long time, decades perhaps. If you get to a new normal, it will differ from your existing relationship in some fundamental ways, both good and bad.

 

Put a moratorium on asking things of him in terms of acceptance or accommodation, he'll go at his own pace. Be responsible for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

HE is entitled to a marriage where he doesn't have to feel the need to hide anything, and our child is entitled to a healthy representation of marriage.

 

I wanted to add one more thing to try and make you understand the contradiction a BS grapples with every day.

 

What you really mean is "NOW he's entitled to a marriage where he doesn't have to feel the need to hide anything" and "NOW our child is entitled to a healthy representation of marriage". After doing everything possible to burn down the house - very few WS's have checked off as many items in the cheater's catalog - now you're committed to fire safety. Were the roles reversed, how authentic would that seem to you?

 

Are you in IC? Do you attend AA? The decision to abuse drugs and alcohol in the face of your problems carries its own lifetime challenges.

 

Your situation is about as complicated as it gets...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Janedoh]

I do understand that much more time is needed for healing and rebuilding and that our current state is not necessarily where we'll always be, as long as we are both committed to the same goal and not creating more problems in the process. I appreciate your perspective.

[Janedoh]

As described, I am sober and regularly attend AA meetings. I never felt he wasn't entitled to my loyalty and faithfulness, even while I was being untrue. I understand that actions speak louder than words and I get that a lot of time in which myactions align with my intentions before he can feel safe trusting me again. I want to clarify that it is not his inability to do so as yet that concerns me, but the possibility that he is not open to doing so and investing instead into a separate life and/or balancing the scales in ways that are not conducive to rebuilding our marriage. Also, I'm not saying that anything he's done or that I fear he's doing are crimes that I'm presenting for judgement of his character, but rather just to explain why I'm worried that we are veering off the path to recovery.