Is this Sugar Dating or Not? (Miami Music Week)

March 7, 2016

Well put!

I'm a little lost on the escort side too... but just accepting it as the loveshack opinion.

I'm utterly confused, but one things for sure- it's about money. You better be careful about paying for things or doing extravagant things because you're treading close to being a John. No flying to London to see Led Zeppelin or staying on the 18th at Pebble for a week- no, no, no! But hopefully someone will explain the piece I'm missing, cuz I'm sure missing it!

March 7, 2016

And yeah. That is as common as skim milk.

My SoCal transplant friends all have them too.

When they talk about the minority of girls who don't have implants, they call them a set of"reals"

I live in LA and I am all natural. They're real and they're spectacular.

Question for you- Why is any of this information about some video she posted online that people may or may not be aware of so relevant to your question about whether or not she's a sugar baby?

Perhaps if we know why that info is so vital, we might be able to answer the original post.

March 7, 2016

You don't understand at all. It's one thing when the man is dating the woman. He's buying her dinners and taking her on dates to invest in a relationship with her. He wants to spend time with her to get to know her. The main reason the two people dating are spending time together, having sex, is because they have feelings for each other.

No difference. She lives far away and they're getting to know each other. I have done this. I have dated several men who lived far away.

In this case, OP has no feelings for her. He's paying her way because she's a good time, which means he can just focus on the beach party and not worry about hunting down women all week (though, Miami Music Week doesn't sound like a hunt is necessary, it sounds like sex on demand...do you have a pulse? You're getting laid.). She gets a free vacation. She also doesn't have feelings for him.

Still not seeing the difference. I don't have feelings for men at first. We develop feelings spending time together. They take me out on dates and maybe feelings develop, maybe not. Same as it ever was.

The B-list-and-tits thing is irrelevant, to me at least.

These two do not care about developing a relationship. If money weren't involved, neither of them would be headed to Miami together.

This seems irrelevant. He has money and likes doing things like this, and he pays for it.

I'm guessing your mom and dad found other reasons to eventually love each other and get married.

But the money was spent nonetheless, and would have been whether they fell in love or not.

Edited March 8, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

March 7, 2016

No difference. She lives far away and they're getting to know each other. I have done this. I have dated several men who lived far away.

I've done it too. The key word is "dating". These two aren't dating. She's a FB.

Still not seeing the difference. I don't have feelings for men at first. We develop feelings spending time together. They take me out on dates and maybe feelings develop, maybe not. Same as it ever was.

The B-list-and-tits thing is irrelevant, to me at least.

It's not irrelevant to him. Her fake boobs are the main reason he's interested in her. As is the viral video or whatever. She's exciting, she's really hot, and fun. If she was a plain jane average looking female, I truly doubt he'd be spending any amount of money to take her to Miami.

Yes, you don't have feelings at first. But after spending time together, feelings develop. OP has no intention of developing feelings, he's said a few times he doesn't want anything remotely serious from this girl. That is the difference.

But the money was spent nonetheless, and would have been whether they fell in love or not.

Yes but did you mom stay with your dad for all of those years only because he took care of her financially? If he had lost all of his money and could no longer support her, would she still love him and stay with him? That's the difference.

It's not about spending the money. It's the fact that the money is the only glue that keeps two people together.

All relationships are give and take. But this relationship is give sex, take money.

March 7, 2016

Good lord. lmao

She didn't make a video and get famous. She simply had a video she shot of a very interesting situation in her life. There were also other people in the video who are the main subjects of the video. It was picked up off her face book.

Her identity, image, likeness, etc, is in this video that went viral without her intending it to.

She doesn't care about the video and laughs it off.

Do people here really not understand what a true viral video is?? Really??

Why are you getting so defensive? I'm just laying out a scenario.

I know what a viral video is, yes. By nature they bring a certain amount of unsolicited attention, about which there are pros and cons. It's not beyond the realm of possibility for someone who's found themselves in one to want to capitalize on the attention it brings. There's nothing wrong with that, it happens all the time. And a 24-year-old is probably more savvy about using viral media to boost one's career than most. She may not have sought it out, but now that it's happened ...

I don't know what this woman's career aspirations are, but by the way you describe her—hot, hard-body, big fake titties party girl willing to take a paid vacation from a guy for sex—it doesn't sound like she's a molecular biologist, if you know what I mean. If she's a model or relies on being noticed in order to make money, and she's not so well off as you keep saying, I'd think it's actually be advantageous of her to put herself in situations where she IS noticed. The VIP treatment at a trendy music festival sounds ideal.

This is all just speculation. Maybe she'll hate the attention and want to hide in the hotel room all week. Like I said, it's nothing to get so defensive over.

March 7, 2016

It's true.

Some people consider any instance of a man paying - directly or indirectly - with the expectation of receiving sex to be prostitution. Whether we call it dating, escorting, sugar babying, ... marriage ... it all boils down to paying for sex. Prostitution. Tricking, as I called it in my first post.

We can try to make subtle distinctions to justify our situations, but I see their point.

That seems to be the key- the quid pro quo expectation. But I sure wouldn't take the whore label if some guy was thinking that when he asked me out.

Also, I don't think women should be given some negative label for doing something with the attitude, "Sure. Why not? I'm not busy that weekend. It could be fun."

It's as though there is a very narrow set of permissible goals and intentions allowed, which is rather puritanical.

March 7, 2016

My social media accounts are so boring. There's never any viral videos of hot minor celebrities (your words from the OP LW) with fake boobs. Clearly, I need cooler friends.

I want to point out that the only question that was asked about this video was: "Is it a porn video?". On page 4 or 5. No one really cared. You could have simply answered no, but instead you took the opportunity to give us details about it. Since then, this thread is more focused on the video, and the more you talk about it, the easier it becomes to track it down.

LW, if you don't want us to identify who she is, stop talking about that video.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Kamille

March 7, 2016

It's true.

Some people consider any instance of a man paying - directly or indirectly - with the expectation of receiving sex to be prostitution. Whether we call it dating, escorting, sugar babying, ... marriage ... it all boils down to paying for sex. Prostitution. Tricking, as I called it in my first post.

We can try to make subtle distinctions to justify our situations, but I see their point.

Well then. Yay me! I out sugared all the sugar babies with just my real boobs.

I got a house.

I got two cars.

I got a dog.

I got a garden.

I got lots of jewelry.

I don't have to work outside the home.

All the sugars wanna be me.

(However...I would sort of like getting the fake boobs. But only if they looked real...and I didn't have to worry about getting them done again. But I suppose that should be on another thread.)

Edited March 7, 2016 by Summer3

March 7, 2016

I've done it too. The key word is "dating". These two aren't dating. She's a FB.

Lots of labels to learn. So dating means... what does it mean? People are dating only if they have intentions or a desire to marry? If you have sex early with someone does that mean you're FBs but then convert into dating if your feelings or intentions change? Do both people have to have the same goal or intention for a certain label to apply to both of them?

It's not irrelevant to him. Her fake boobs are the main reason he's interested in her. As is the viral video or whatever. She's exciting, she's really hot, and fun. If she was a plain jane average looking female, I truly doubt he'd be spending any amount of money to take her to Miami.

This is derailing your argument, in my opinion. Exciting, hot and fun women have serious relationships too and some men truly fall in love with them. But what I think you're still saying is that OP's intentions are determinant.

Yes, you don't have feelings at first. But after spending time together, feelings develop. OP has no intention of developing feelings, he's said a few times he doesn't want anything remotely serious from this girl. That is the difference.

Your logic here is that she is an escort if this is only for fun for her too and she knows that they will not marry or become "serious?"

Yes but did you mom stay with your dad for all of those years only because he took care of her financially? If he had lost all of his money and could no longer support her, would she still love him and stay with him? That's the difference.

We'll never know. Which leaves her status in limbo.

It's not about spending the money. It's the fact that the money is the only glue that keeps two people together.

Maybe. It could be that they both have fun, with each other.

I'm coming at this with a very feminist perspective. Maybe she enjoys OP, isn't busy, thinks they'll have fun, so she's saying yes to having fun with a guy she has fun with. Maybe she thinks he's hot, fun and has exciting attributes too.

March 7, 2016

My social media accounts are so boring. There's never any viral videos of hot minor celebrities (your words from the OP LW) with fake boobs. Clearly, I need cooler friends.

I want to point out that the only question that was asked about this video was: "Is it a porn video?". On page 4 or 5. No one really cared. You could have simply answered no, but instead you took the opportunity to give us details about it. Since then, this thread is more focused on the video, and the more you talk about it, the easier it becomes to track it down.

LW, if you don't want us to identify who she is, stop talking about that video.

And to be fair, I asked that question simply out of snark.

March 7, 2016

Damn I got a headache reading that!

Don't know how to label it but it's definitely a girl having a good time on someone else's dollar. Nothing new here

March 7, 2016

Lots of labels to learn. So dating means... what does it mean? People are dating only if they have intentions or a desire to marry? If you have sex early with someone does that mean you're FBs but then convert into dating if your feelings or intentions change? Do both people have to have the same goal or intention for a certain label to apply to both of them?

It is complex, isn't it? Dating means you're getting to know each other, and both people have the end goal of a relationship. Not necessarily a relationship with each other, depending on how "dating" goes.

A FB or FWB means that you just have sex. No feelings, commitment, rules, expectations. A FB situation can become a relationship, but that's not typical. Yes, both people should have the same end goal.

The OP was asking is this sugar dating. IMO sugar dating is like a FB relationship except adding a financial incentive for the woman. In this case, we're all wondering if a paid vacation is a financial incentive. My vote is yes.

This is derailing your argument, in my opinion. Exciting, hot and fun women have serious relationships too and some men truly fall in love with them. But what I think you're still saying is that OP's intentions are determinant.

Yeah, I'm just saying his intentions are not to date her. He's not emotionally invested here. Her intentions matter also, but to a lesser extent. Since he's the one paying, his intentions trump hers.

Your logic here is that she is an escort if this is only for fun for her too and she knows that they will not marry or become "serious?"

My logic is that she's an escort because she'd never spend her own money to hang out with him. If the only reason she's going is because it's a free vacation, that's a sugar situation. Even FB or FWB can pay their own way, or stay involved with each other for other reasons than financial benefit. As in, they really enjoy the sex.

Maybe. It could be that they both have fun, with each other.

I'm coming at this with a very feminist perspective. Maybe she enjoys OP, isn't busy, thinks they'll have fun, so she's saying yes to having fun with a guy she has fun with. Maybe she thinks he's hot, fun and has exciting attributes too.

A feminist perspective which justifies a woman using her sex to get a free vacation? This is interesting. Isn't feminism all about women being respected as human beings who are able to live their lives without needing a man to pay for everything? Because women have more to offer than tits and a vagina?

Care to re-read the original post, where he explains the reasons why he's hanging out with this girl in the first place....it's not because she has a really sexy brain.

March 7, 2016

A feminist perspective which justifies a woman using her sex to get a free vacation? This is interesting. Isn't feminism all about women being respected as human beings who are able to live their lives without needing a man to pay for everything? Because women have more to offer than tits and a vagina?

Care to re-read the original post, where he explains the reasons why he's hanging out with this girl in the first place....it's not because she has a really sexy brain.

AMJ, I'm an old feminist. Back then it was about women being able to make choices, including the choice to have fun without having a scarlet letter slapped on them. OP said she's fun and they have fun together. There have have been men who fall over backwards over boobs forever. You see, just because OP delights in those traits of hers and that you have accepted that that is all she is, does NOT mean *I* see any woman as tits and vagina, to use your words. That's one of the things that makes me a feminist.

Edited to add: Remember this is about her, who she is, not how OP thinks. Is SHE an escort or whore for going for a weekend at a music festival with a guy she's had fun with in the past? IMO, no. Not at all.

Edited March 7, 2016 by BlueIris

March 7, 2016

AMJ, I'm an old feminist. Back then it was about women being able to make choices, including the choice to have fun without having a scarlet letter slapped on them. OP said she's fun and they have fun together. There have have been men who fall over backwards over boobs forever. You see, just because OP delights in those traits of hers and that you have accepted that that is all she is, does NOT mean *I* see any woman as tits and vagina, to use your words. That's one of the things that makes me a feminist.

Edited to add: Remember this is about her, who she is, not how OP thinks. Is SHE an escort or whore for going for a weekend at a music festival with a guy she's had fun with in the past? IMO, no. Not at all.

So then...what would an escort be, in this situation? What about this arrangement needs to change, to make the girl in the scenario an escort? If he had called an escort service, for example? If she were getting paid a daily rate on top of the cost of the vacation?

Did anyone see that movie Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts? It's a modern day Cinderella story, right? He takes her shopping, to the opera, for a week, then they live happily ever after...

March 7, 2016

What does this thread even mean anymore? My head's spinning lol.

L-Dubs, can you answer these questions?

- What does she consider herself and what's this weekend in her view? Escort, sugar, just friends, just FBs? What exactly?

- Has she done this sort of thing before? If so, does she do it regularly?

- If she weren't getting anything from you, would she still go, with you specifically?

- If she could afford it, would she pay her own way?

March 7, 2016

A lot of relationships could be potentially labelled as a client - escort if one just purely looks at the dynamics.

Is a woman who demands her boyfriend pays for all dates technically any different from an escort?

March 7, 2016

A lot of relationships could be potentially labelled as a client - escort if one just purely looks at the dynamics.

Is a woman who demands her boyfriend pays for all dates technically any different from an escort?

No.

.............

March 7, 2016

So then...what would an escort be, in this situation? What about this arrangement needs to change, to make the girl in the scenario an escort? If he had called an escort service, for example? If she were getting paid a daily rate on top of the cost of the vacation?

Did anyone see that movie Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts? It's a modern day Cinderella story, right? He takes her shopping, to the opera, for a week, then they live happily ever after...

Yeah, agreed- the problem is labeling and defining. Maybe we should ask OP why label or definition matters? I think he should just have fun, be nice to each other and not worry about it.

I don't know what an escort would be other than someone who calls himself or herself an escort and enters contracts.

The movie Pretty Woman was about him more than her. He was the more morally reprehensible one, who realized his lack of integrity and callousness in part because he’d assumed he was superior to her when he actually wasn’t. To me that movie was about the Wall Street mindset more than prostitution.

March 7, 2016

AMJ, I'm an old feminist. Back then it was about women being able to make choices, including the choice to have fun without having a scarlet letter slapped on them. OP said she's fun and they have fun together. There have have been men who fall over backwards over boobs forever. You see, just because OP delights in those traits of hers and that you have accepted that that is all she is, does NOT mean *I* see any woman as tits and vagina, to use your words. That's one of the things that makes me a feminist.

Edited to add: Remember this is about her, who she is, not how OP thinks. Is SHE an escort or whore for going for a weekend at a music festival with a guy she's had fun with in the past? IMO, no. Not at all.

But..it's not about her because she's not the one posting the thread. So...it's about how LW sees her, and it sounds like he sees her as an escort.

March 7, 2016

A lot of relationships could be potentially labelled as a client - escort if one just purely looks at the dynamics.

Is a woman who demands her boyfriend pays for all dates technically any different from an escort?

well here in a nutshell is why this thread has legs, viral videos notwithstanding. it touches on the raw heart of LS.

I think it's important - which is I think BlueIris and the OP himself have stressed - to note that this woman hasn't demanded a thing. The OP has offered, because it is of benefit to himself.

I personally don't think she'd be an escort in this situation. I think she's a FWB who's getting a pretty sweet deal. It's not a situation just anyone would place themselves in, for a whole host of reasons that don't need value judgments placed on them. I do think it matters what the woman in question thinks of things, herself, so I'm also curious to hear the answers to Jen's questions.

I also think, though, that in this situation the OP is taking a chance, because one benefit of an escort situation is that you've discussed terms before going in. I don't necessarily think that a "free spirit" who accepts this sort of free ride is going to take advantage of the situation to sleep with whomever she feels like -- but I don't think it's at all clear that she wouldn't, either, assuming she doesn't actually feel beholden. That's the question, in the end -- what are the actual dynamics between the two people directly involved, what their understanding is, whether they draw the same moral lines in the sand.

I don't know why the OP has presented this question to us, when it seems he doesn't really like the answers, or indeed further questions intended to clarify what he wants to know. I suspect that the real point is what he said several pages ago -- to brag that he's going with a woman he says is a hot chick. I mean, OK. But unfortunately this is the sort of topic that ends up really just stirring the pot of LS -- whether intentional or not, I have no idea.

March 7, 2016

The movie Pretty Woman was about him more than her. He was the more morally reprehensible one, who realized his lack of integrity and callousness in part because he’d assumed he was superior to her when he actually wasn’t. To me that movie was about the Wall Street mindset more than prostitution.

I was trying to draw a parallel since both stories involve a man paying for a woman's companionship. In one case, the woman was a prostitute he met on the street. In OP's case...well we don't know how he met her. But the only difference between the two stories is one fun-filled week is classy and the other is Spring Break. Oh, and Julia throws the wad of cash at him in the end. But she kept all those clothes, didn't she

March 7, 2016

A lot of relationships could be potentially labelled as a client - escort if one just purely looks at the dynamics.

Is a woman who demands her boyfriend pays for all dates technically any different from an escort?

Yes, there are actual feelings and emotions involved in non-escort situations (or one would hope).... regardless of who pays.

However, that a woman who demands her boyfriend pay for everything may be deemed a bytch...but still not an escort.

March 7, 2016

Yes, there are actual feelings and emotions involved in non-escort situations.... regardless of who pays.

Oops, I thought he was asking if it was the same. How did I misread that?

They are different, for the reason Katie gave. And I mentioned earlier in the thread.

March 7, 2016

I was trying to draw a parallel since both stories involve a man paying for a woman's companionship. In one case, the woman was a prostitute he met on the street. In OP's case...well we don't know how he met her. But the only difference between the two stories is one fun-filled week is classy and the other is Spring Break. Oh, and Julia throws the wad of cash at him in the end. But she kept all those clothes, didn't she

This is what worries me- I didn't see that movie or this scenario as being about the money or the material items.

You're ignoring the men altogether, AMJ. Why? Richard Gere tore apart companies, threw people out of work and had major daddy issues. OP (excuse me, OP) is a forty-something divorced guy who's been going through existential crises for, well, months at least. Both of these men want to have fun, have no romantic connections to a woman, and have money. None of this is damnable.

The little feminist in me keeps wondering why the fixation on the character of the woman- "is she an escort or not?" It's like we're still in colonial New England and ignoring Dimmesdale. Dimmesdale had issues too! But the point isn't to assign more Scarlet Letters so much as to not assign any.

March 7, 2016

This is what worries me- I didn't see that movie or this scenario as being about the money or the material items.

You're ignoring the men altogether, AMJ. Why? Richard Gere tore apart companies, threw people out of work and had major daddy issues. OP (excuse me, OP) is a forty-something divorced guy who's been going through existential crises for, well, months at least. Both of these men want to have fun, have no romantic connections to a woman, and have money. None of this is damnable.

The little feminist in me keeps wondering why the fixation on the character of the woman- "is she an escort or not?" It's like we're still in colonial New England and ignoring Dimmesdale. Dimmesdale had issues too! But the point isn't to assign more Scarlet Letters so much as to not assign any.

I think the OP was concerned with defining what's happening- is this a sugar date. All of our judgements about everyone's virtue are not relevant.

I personally don't mean to "assign a scarlet letter" to anyone. Julia is the hero in Pretty Woman, she's Cinderella. She fought her way to a better life, lived that glorious American Dream, didn't she? People do all sorts of things to get ahead. This girl that OP is taking to Miami is using her best attributes to get ahead as well.

I hear you- about judging a woman's right to have fun and get all liberated. If she's allowed to go on this trip and sleep with whoever she wants- men included, then I'll say she's not an escort. I just think there's an unspoken contract here, and she's likely expected to behave a certain way in exchange for her airfare, festival ticket, hotel room, and whatever else he's paying for.

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