dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So I've never posted here before but I am kind of at a loss with this situation. A little background: I'm a guy, 32. Soon to be a lawyer. She is 30, soon to be the same. We started at a new job on the same day about 2 months ago. I was attracted to her immediately but was honestly a little intimidated by her and by the new job environment to really flirt or be myself around her at first. That changed pretty quickly. We ended up spending a good deal of time together alone and there was definitely chemistry. I noticed her looking at me in "that way". You know what I mean. Holding eye contact for extended moments and she would have this enormous smile on her face when we'd see each other in the morning. I becoming more and more drawn to her really fast. The situation arose over the past few weeks. Our team went on a happy hour outing after work and we were joined at the hip the whole time. So much so that I didn't want people to start whispering about us. Office gossip can be a problem. So she was taking a week off the following week to take the bar exam. That Friday I bought her a book and a nice card and left it at her desk. She seemed to really like that. We went out for lunch alone that day and I swear the chemistry was ridiculous. I told her at the end of lunch that she should get her answer ready,because when she came back to work after the exam I was going to ask her out. I got that enormous smile again. So the week passed and she came back this week. I let Monday pass and emailed her Tuesday to go out to lunch again. She texted me back instead of emailing, giving me her number. Clear signal right? So at lunch I gather up the courage to ask her and I do. I say "you should let me take you out to dinner". Huge smile. "I should huh?" "Yes I think you should ". Then this: "well, I'm kind of in a 'it's complicated' situation right now so..." I was speechless. I had specifically asked when Valentine's Day was coming up and her birthday what she had planned. She knew I was asking if she had a boyfriend. And her answer to both was having dinner with her sister. So I don't know what to say. I really didn't see that coming and am at a loss for words. I try to wrap up our lunch and get away from her because I feel totally awkward and embarrassed and honestly have no idea what to say now. I manage to ask her if I was just totally in left field with asking her, to which she says no that was probably her fault. So here's the problem. I know this girl likes me. And I really like her. I know she purposely never mentioned a significant other in front of me because she could tell I liked her and didn't want me to know. I'm no stud and I'm not arrogant, but I know when a girl is interested and when she's not. And this one is. At least enough that she entertained the idea of going out with me. The issue is what I do now. Everyone is telling me to basically ignore her at work. No more lunch dates or getting coffee. Just pretend she's not there more or less. Which is totally not what comes naturally to me, playing it cool like that. I want to let her get to know me more, let me make her laugh some more, and hopefully she'll decide she wants to go out with me. I know from experience that this a super delicate moment and if I have any shot with her at all I could ruin it really fast by handling this the wrong way. I got lucky in a way that next day after this I got a terrible flu and went home early and missed work Thursday and today. I honestly think I was so crushed by her response I was worn down and ended up getting sick. I really was totally crushed that afternoon. I barely remembered what that feeling was until now. I haven't felt it years. Rejection is fine, but this was different for some reason. So what do I do? Play it cool? Or keep being the charming genuine guy I am and don't give up? Thanks a lot for reading all of this. I'd love to here from some women on this if possible...
mrs rubble Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So I've never posted here before but I am kind of at a loss with this situation. A little background: I'm a guy, 32. Soon to be a lawyer. She is 30, soon to be the same. We started at a new job on the same day about 2 months ago. I was attracted to her immediately but was honestly a little intimidated by her and by the new job environment to really flirt or be myself around her at first. That changed pretty quickly. We ended up spending a good deal of time together alone and there was definitely chemistry. I noticed her looking at me in "that way". You know what I mean. Holding eye contact for extended moments and she would have this enormous smile on her face when we'd see each other in the morning. I becoming more and more drawn to her really fast. The situation arose over the past few weeks. Our team went on a happy hour outing after work and we were joined at the hip the whole time. So much so that I didn't want people to start whispering about us. Office gossip can be a problem. So she was taking a week off the following week to take the bar exam. That Friday I bought her a book and a nice card and left it at her desk. She seemed to really like that. We went out for lunch alone that day and I swear the chemistry was ridiculous. I told her at the end of lunch that she should get her answer ready,because when she came back to work after the exam I was going to ask her out. I got that enormous smile again. So the week passed and she came back this week. I let Monday pass and emailed her Tuesday to go out to lunch again. She texted me back instead of emailing, giving me her number. Clear signal right? So at lunch I gather up the courage to ask her and I do. I say "you should let me take you out to dinner". Huge smile. "I should huh?" "Yes I think you should ". Then this: "well, I'm kind of in a 'it's complicated' situation right now so..." I was speechless. I had specifically asked when Valentine's Day was coming up and her birthday what she had planned. She knew I was asking if she had a boyfriend. And her answer to both was having dinner with her sister. So I don't know what to say. I really didn't see that coming and am at a loss for words. I try to wrap up our lunch and get away from her because I feel totally awkward and embarrassed and honestly have no idea what to say now. I manage to ask her if I was just totally in left field with asking her, to which she says no that was probably her fault. So here's the problem. I know this girl likes me. And I really like her. I know she purposely never mentioned a significant other in front of me because she could tell I liked her and didn't want me to know. I'm no stud and I'm not arrogant, but I know when a girl is interested and when she's not. And this one is. At least enough that she entertained the idea of going out with me. The issue is what I do now. Everyone is telling me to basically ignore her at work. No more lunch dates or getting coffee. Just pretend she's not there more or less. Which is totally not what comes naturally to me, playing it cool like that. I want to let her get to know me more, let me make her laugh some more, and hopefully she'll decide she wants to go out with me. I know from experience that this a super delicate moment and if I have any shot with her at all I could ruin it really fast by handling this the wrong way. I got lucky in a way that next day after this I got a terrible flu and went home early and missed work Thursday and today. I honestly think I was so crushed by her response I was worn down and ended up getting sick. I really was totally crushed that afternoon. I barely remembered what that feeling was until now. I haven't felt it years. Rejection is fine, but this was different for some reason. So what do I do? Play it cool? Or keep being the charming genuine guy I am and don't give up? Thanks a lot for reading all of this. I'd love to here from some women on this if possible... Listen to what everyone is telling you. DO NOT have an affair with a workmate- too awkward. She has led you on while she's in a relationship- is this the type of woman you want? 1
TXGuy Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) You just started your first job as a lawyer. It is not a good idea to date one of your co-workers right now. Don't do it. There is far more downside than upside. I'm not suggesting you never date/bang co-workers, but you are still providing your employer your first impressions. (I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph, but I'm convinced there is nothing further down the post that would change the advice above.) ETA: I finished your OP. There was nothing there that changed the advice above. In fact, everything else you said made it all the more clear that you should not get involved with this woman. Haven't you seen enough examples of men being crucified on sexual harassment complaints to realize this is a mess (for you) waiting to happen? Edited March 5, 2016 by TXGuy
Mrin Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Ok office romance aside (bad idea) - if you find yourself in this situation again and want to start something with the lady this is what you do: Don't change a thing. Don't blow her off. Don't treat her differently except stop lunch dates etc. You simply hold open the space for her to wrap up her its compicated situation and ease into you. Don't have an affair. But also don't go cold on her or she'll tell herself that you only were after sex or that you lacked confidence and got weird. Just be steady Eddie and hold the space open. All that being said - don't date a coworker. 1
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 We both actually reviewed company policy and discussed that. The company is liberal about that type of thing. There a couple of married couples in our office and 2 couples dating I know of. I also know enough about the law to ever do anything to get myself in any trouble. I spend my entire life at work...its where a lot of people in my profession meet. Also we work in New York City. Maybe it's more liberal here than other places, I don't know. Anyone got anymore specific advice about how to handle this?
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So... she has a boyfriend??? I think she doesn't and it was an excuse to give her more time to warm up to you. Consider it a buffer. I think you should continue on with her and ignore how you asked her out. Play it like it never happened. Watch. One day she'll grab you and kiss you. lol.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 I don't think she does have a boyfriend. I think it's just what she said, some complicated situation with an ex or soon to be or something like that. I made the mistake of bringing up the topic again the next day and all she had to say about it was "I'm a very confused girl". And I don't want to pry because it's not my business and I don't really want to know. I almost used the line "maybe you wouldn't be confused anymore if you went out with me" but stopped myself. Thank you very much for the input.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 Oh and now I have her number and it's taken all my strength not to text her the past few days. Which I haven't. I kind of hoped to hear from her asking me how I was doing as I've been out sick the past few days. I've considered deleting it to avoid further embarrassment because if things go well I'll hear from her. Ugh. That seems really dramatic. Again it goes back to the dilemma of leave her be or keep going and letting her know I'm still interested, and not giving up
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I'll tell you this, what you're going through sucks. You like her a lot and she knows it. Ball is in her court. She's in control. Even if you delete her number, ignore her, if she decides to reach out to you in any way, you'll be doing cartwheels and back flips in the office corridor. I hate when I like a girl and can't control these feelings. It drives you mad. Last couple of months I had this gorgeous girl on my mind and, well, nothing happened but at least she's gone for good. Now I can watch sports again and focus on my guy time. lol.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 Yes! That really sums it up. I've completely handed over control now. And you're right. I'd be ridiculously thrilled if I heard from her now. I'd take it as a sign that she was coming around or reconsidering or whatever. I mean why would she give me her number? I didn't ask for it and wasn't going to to I asked her out
AMJ Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Ugh, why do we women do this! I loved this story and was totally excited for you until she dropped that little bomb. I don't even know what advice to give you. I'd want to know what exactly "its complicated' means. That could be...not over her ex, still seeing an ex, hung up on a FWB, hooking up with someone else at work, hmmm what else...getting ready to break up with someone maybe... But she told you on her birthday and Valentine's she was having dinner with her sister. So strange. The whole story. She'd have to be a complete idiot to play a game with a guy at work when your job is so critical for both of you. I've worked plenty of places where it's not weird to date coworkers...typically places where we all work way too many hours, so I get you on that one. It's hard to tell you what to do because we don't really know how she'll respond. So if you go cold on her, will that make her realize she's losing her chance and get her to wake up? Or will she think, he's not interested, and fade away. If you continue being Mr. Charming, will it draw her closer, or make her uncomfortable. I have no idea. I tend to go with- go all in, be Mr. Charming for as long as it takes-type thinking. But what if she responds more quickly to suddenly being really cold with her? Is there another way you can figure out what the "its complicated" deal is? Facebook stalking, mutual friends..?
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Yes! That really sums it up. I've completely handed over control now. And you're right. I'd be ridiculously thrilled if I heard from her now. I'd take it as a sign that she was coming around or reconsidering or whatever. I mean why would she give me her number? I didn't ask for it and wasn't going to to I asked her out Playing games? I've had women give me their number only for me to call and they never pick up. I wasn't there so I'm not sure if you did something for her to react that way? Did she just voluntarily, out of the blue, offer it to you? I'm going to give you a suggestion on what to do... an idea i got from a friend once... write her a note. Something simple. Attach it to something, kinda like you did with the book you gave her. Just say: "I know you're a complicated, confused girl... when you're not complicated or confused anymore, I'd like to have dinner with you. You know how to find me ;)" What I suggested can be altered but the point is to let her know you're interested but you're not going to chase her. This way you can move on and live your life without thinking about her. If she REALLY likes you, she will make the move... if not, the sting of rejection won't bother you much. 1
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Ugh, why do we women do this! I loved this story and was totally excited for you until she dropped that little bomb. I don't even know what advice to give you. I'd want to know what exactly "its complicated' means. That could be...not over her ex, still seeing an ex, hung up on a FWB, hooking up with someone else at work, hmmm what else...getting ready to break up with someone maybe... But she told you on her birthday and Valentine's she was having dinner with her sister. So strange. The whole story. She'd have to be a complete idiot to play a game with a guy at work when your job is so critical for both of you. I've worked plenty of places where it's not weird to date coworkers...typically places where we all work way too many hours, so I get you on that one. It's hard to tell you what to do because we don't really know how she'll respond. So if you go cold on her, will that make her realize she's losing her chance and get her to wake up? Or will she think, he's not interested, and fade away. If you continue being Mr. Charming, will it draw her closer, or make her uncomfortable. I have no idea. I tend to go with- go all in, be Mr. Charming for as long as it takes-type thinking. But what if she responds more quickly to suddenly being really cold with her? Is there another way you can figure out what the "its complicated" deal is? Facebook stalking, mutual friends..? Beats me. Immaturity? Fear of rejection? Complicated means (IMHO) that she is unsure and wants time to think about it, feel it out. That's why I suggested he write the note and just throw it all on her. If she's into him she can go to him. If she isn't, he'll have already moved on.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 I like the idea of the note I guess. Pretty much a no pressure thing. But I'm always being told girls love when you are just super confident and willing to go after what you want. The more I think about the more of like to know what her complicated situation is too. Maybe I don't wanna know...I don't know. I do know that you can't convince people of some things, they need to figure it out. I was just talking with my friend and we both agreed that at least some part of her likes me and wants to go out. I mean I gave her a warning for Petes sake, she could have said no right then. But some part of her is struggling with some situation that would make her feel guilty or wrong or something if she went out with me and won't let her do it...
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) I like the idea of the note I guess. Pretty much a no pressure thing. But I'm always being told girls love when you are just super confident and willing to go after what you want. The more I think about the more of like to know what her complicated situation is too. Maybe I don't wanna know...I don't know. I do know that you can't convince people of some things, they need to figure it out. I was just talking with my friend and we both agreed that at least some part of her likes me and wants to go out. I mean I gave her a warning for Petes sake, she could have said no right then. But some part of her is struggling with some situation that would make her feel guilty or wrong or something if she went out with me and won't let her do it... I feel your situation. I know the note worked with a friend of mine - it resulted in him marrying the woman I like the note because you're respecting her space, you're not confronting her, pressuring her on the spot. I think it takes thoughtfulness to write a note. You're letting her know you understand her situation and when she is ready, all she needs to do is reach out to you. She could be involved with a guy and in the process of it coming to end and she needs time to sort through the feelings one goes through when breaking up... she could also be weighing the issues that comes with office romances... I'm a fan of the note. You put it out there to her where you stand and it gives her all the power and control to make the move. Edited March 5, 2016 by truth_seeker
bu2002 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 The absolute worst answer would have been "I'm comfortable just being friends". That would be her saying "I have zero sexual attraction to you". The "it's complicated" answer is purposely ambigious. It leaves the door open to many possiblities. Having said that, from your perspective, chasing her like a puppy dog at this point serves no purpose. Also, the lunch dates should stop. You have to assume she's not interested at all right now and move on. I wouldn't ignore her completely, cause then she'll think you only wanted sex. If she found out you started to date someone else, it wouldn't shock me if sh became interested a little bit.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 Thanks for the input. This is really driving me crazy. I want to text her so badly. It's Saturday morning now and trying to talk to her on the weekend would affirm to her I feel like we have some connection beyond just the coworker one. I don't know. This is consuming far too much of my brain capacity. She is a very sweet and pretty shy girl. I don't think she was playing a game with me. Although I do think most women play games without realizing it at all. I've been thinking about the note idea. I like it. I like it so much I pretty much already did that before she took a week off. With the book. I actually emailed myself a draft of what I wrote in the card. Crazy I know: " I'll admit i have probably put way too much thought into this. I do that sometimes... But like I said the other day, at this point in life, and based on experience, I don't see much good in hiding the ball, or just being less than direct about my thoughts. Nothing ventured, right? I may not have realized how utterly distracted I have been until today, when work seemed to be alot more boring and the hours just crawled by. (She was out this day) Something has been filling my time here and making it pleasant, and something I honestly look forward to on a daily basis. So here's the conclusion of all the ridiculous thought I put into this (when I probably should have spent more time putting some thought into whether doing this at all was a good idea... See above paragraph): you've likely been stressed and without any time for yourself or the things you enjoy. I was hoping that by the time you were flying back to new York that may have changed a bit, and thought I might share something with you that I found to probably be the most cleverly hilarious thing I've ever read. Maybe after the exam you'll find yourself with some more free time to read for pleasure, and do other things like accept dinner invitations from an awkward but genuine colleague" Then I wished her good luck on the exam and told her she'd do great etc. I'd be more willing to do note thing if I hadn't just done it...any other ideas out there?
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So here's the conclusion of all the ridiculous thought I put into this (when I probably should have spent more time putting some thought into whether doing this at all was a good idea... See above paragraph): you've likely been stressed and without any time for yourself or the things you enjoy. I was hoping that by the time you were flying back to new York that may have changed a bit, and thought I might share something with you that I found to probably be the most cleverly hilarious thing I've ever read. Maybe after the exam you'll find yourself with some more free time to read for pleasure, and do other things like accept dinner invitations from an awkward but genuine colleague" Then I wished her good luck on the exam and told her she'd do great etc. I'd be more willing to do note thing if I hadn't just done it...any other ideas out there? You wrote the above and gave it to her? What has been her behavior since you gave that note to her? No offense but that was a bit much. When it comes to notes, they have to be short and sweet. Example: Hey, I thought you would enjoy reading this on your trip to XYZ That dinner invitation is still open when you come back next week - D That last line about the awkward but genuine colleague made me cringe a bit. Not trying to hurt your feelings but it just didn't come off right. She's on the fence with you and a line like that could make her want to jump off and run away. I would keep quiet and lay low. 1
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 When I did the note thing myself, I kept it to the point. Example: My Name My Number Dinner next week? That was it. My info and a fun, flirtatious line that's not too over the top. If the girl likes me, she will reach out... if she doesn't, oh, well. There's not much in the note for her to laugh at me or spin it into I'm a creep or anything. If I got a note like that from a girl I would laugh and feel flattered. With your note about being awkward but a genuine colleague, you better hope the person receiving it thinks you're incredibly hot because if they don't then that line and the rest of what you wrote can be a turn off.
Author dom1 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 That's not verbatim and I didn't write all of that but that was the general idea. I left some of that stuff out but at this point I don't remember exactly what. She actually seemed to love the note. She asked me out to lunch immediately after that day. It may have been kind of corny but I think I read her taste and how to approach the note pretty well. In my experience sometimes being super earnest and saying precisely what you're thinking can work really well. Anyway. Whatever the issue is I don't think it was the content of that note. Her reaction to it was very positive.
dispatch3d Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 smiling a lot isn't that great of a signal to be honest. Anyhow I'd just lay low on this one, stakes are high because you work together and this "it's complicated" thing could really just mean she's not interested and letting you down easy.
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 That's not verbatim and I didn't write all of that but that was the general idea. I left some of that stuff out but at this point I don't remember exactly what. She actually seemed to love the note. She asked me out to lunch immediately after that day. It may have been kind of corny but I think I read her taste and how to approach the note pretty well. In my experience sometimes being super earnest and saying precisely what you're thinking can work really well. Anyway. Whatever the issue is I don't think it was the content of that note. Her reaction to it was very positive. You already did the note and now you're currently in limbo... I think backing off is the way to go. I think you should ghost her. Don't let her see you for awhile so she will wonder what happened to you and possibly contact you. Plus, it will be good for you not being around her. You won't think as much about this.
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 smiling a lot isn't that great of a signal to be honest. Anyhow I'd just lay low on this one, stakes are high because you work together and this "it's complicated" thing could really just mean she's not interested and letting you down easy. As AMJ mentioned in a previous post "complicated" leaves the door open to many possibilities. That is why you either walk away or just try the note where you leave everything up to her. The way some women are, she could reject him now but 2 months down the road think of him and hits him up for that dinner invitation.
AMJ Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I loved your note! It's not weird that you said all of that because you both know each other pretty well, you work side by side all day long, right? I think you need to give it a little time and just reassess what she's doing. Don't be cold to her, just be neutral. Give her a little bit more time to figure out what she wants from you, and then let her actions make your decision as to what to do next. I have a suspicion that the "its complicated" was really just to give herself time to sort something out.
truth_seeker Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I loved your note! It's not weird that you said all of that because you both know each other pretty well, you work side by side all day long, right? I think you need to give it a little time and just reassess what she's doing. Don't be cold to her, just be neutral. Give her a little bit more time to figure out what she wants from you, and then let her actions make your decision as to what to do next. I have a suspicion that the "its complicated" was really just to give herself time to sort something out. Just because you loved the note doesn't mean another woman will... I think a short, clever, charming note is the best way to go. I'd like to hear what other women think of OP's note. I do agree complicated means she wants time to think.
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