What are the most common reasons a married man winds up in an affair?

March 2, 2016

Are there valid things to learn from the OW (or married men) who cheat?

From all of the experiences with married men that OW have, there must be common threads in terms of why the men feel the need to be validated elsewhere, outside of their marriage.

OW- are there things (faithfully) married women can learn from you, in order to strengthen their relationship, based on your knowledge of the cheating husband?

Cheating husbands- what serious advice do you have for wives whom wish to keep their marriages strong and indestructable....even in the face of temptation.

Is there anything we can really do, or do we just have to hope he makes the decision to honor the marriage?

Thanks..

March 2, 2016

I'm sure there will be many and varied answers as each couple is individual in nature - but having said that, whilst its almost impossible to predict individual behaviour (using populations statistics) groups can often be predicted really well - its an interesting and often discussed nature of pop stats.

My estimate would be that very high percentages of wandering partners will come down to sex, either lack of it, or lack of variation or 'newness'.

Often the lack of excitement (variation in the actual act if you prefer) can lead to lack of quantity as well, so, to put it bluntly, sex with your partner becomes infrequent and possibly boring.

I am male, so definitely coming from that perspective, women may well have a different view - though I'm unsure of that. Chatting with my circle it seems to me that men are just more likely to tell it how it is, women, in my estimation, often feel the same, but might not be so inclined to just come out and say it.... then again, they just might not say it to me (as a man), perhaps the interfeminine conversations are much the same as mens (?)

Its a big subject, and an interesting one I think. Well worth discussion.

March 2, 2016

Complacency.

They get into a routine, want a little change in their life, and believe they won't get caught.

March 2, 2016

Men are generally the aggressors and pursuers so it usually boils down to poor boundaries of behavior. To cheat, a guy, generally, can't sit back and let it happen, rather he must consciously and consistently form thoughts of action. Hence, he must scale and defeat his own boundaries of acceptable behavior, presuming there are such boundaries. Generally, a man won't get into a position to cheat unless he exhibits behaviors women find attractive, and to the extent that one will commit to him. Without commitment, there is no cheating, so he's a guy deemed worthy of commitment who abrogates the behavioral set which got him where he was. Oops.

Everything else is pretty much marketing.

fMM here.... FWIW

March 2, 2016

Are there valid things to learn from the OW (or married men) who cheat?

From all of the experiences with married men that OW have, there must be common threads in terms of why the men feel the need to be validated elsewhere, outside of their marriage.

OW- are there things (faithfully) married women can learn from you, in order to strengthen their relationship, based on your knowledge of the cheating husband?

Cheating husbands- what serious advice do you have for wives whom wish to keep their marriages strong and indestructable....even in the face of temptation.
Is there anything we can really do, or do we just have to hope he makes the decision to honor the marriage?

Thanks..

I have been married and I was close to cheating. But I've also been a single OW.

First, I married too young and I married the wrong man. I knew he was wrong for me before the wedding day. He isn't a bad man, he was just a lousy husband. So, I was unhappy. I was planning to end it in five years, sooner if I had found someone else. I was unhappy in the bedroom and I married someone who was amazingly immature. He was coddled and pampered. He was raised to be a coddled and pampered boy, but not given the skill set to be a grown up husband. So, I was on the hunt for someone who didn't need a mommy, but wanted a partner. That never materialized, so no cheating and we divorced.

As an OW, I've had men complain consistently about the lack of sex and specifically the lack of blowjobs. These men and their wives have all been older and there are many baby boomers who were raised, "nice girls didn't do that" and men were raised not to expect it from their wives. Not all Boomers were hippies. There was a pretty good conservative movement in the country at the same time.

I have kind of a sad history. I was seduced and manipulated by a married man while I was still a teen. That warped me and I probably had a dozen encounters with MM until I was around 22. 20 years later I reconnected with one and had a seven year ldr. I was never under the illusion he would leave his wife. I ended things two years ago. We are still friends. Although, I plan to move soon and when I start dating our LC will probably fade into NC.

I've never had a MM say there was NO sex or that they slept in separate bedrooms. Only one was a sociopathic predator. A few of them were great bulls()$tters, though.

Other than the sex excuse, I think many of these men married the wrong women. They wanted a nice girl, someone who they could bring home to mom and dad, was a lady in public a chef in the kitchen, a whiz at housecleaning and would raise their children to be stellar members of society. Some did marry virgins. They just didn't get a porn star in the bedroom. Again nice girls don't do oral and they certainly don't enjoy sex.

Don't get me wrong, even without the cheating aspect, many of these men weren't the great catches they thought they were. They didn't do a lot of child rearing, forget about housework and often they were bossy to their families.

So, last MM I dated, wife was frigid. But he was sort of one dimensional in the bedroom. I liked it, we connected well there, but I did show him a few things. And it was pretty amazing. Probably the best sex I've ever had. In his case, I think he was a touch neglected personally in his house, BUT he was/is a workaholic, so conversely I have no doubt his wife felt she was getting the lousy end of the deal. From what I heard, he was a more hands-on father than some I've seen, but not as involved as others. He did study with his kids and he coached and practiced their various extra curricular activities. Without going into more specific details than I want to, I don't think the wife ever asked him how his day was, what he was working on, etc. I don't know that he did to her, either. I think the guy just needed a friend....and a blowjob.

Those are the reasons or excuses. Please don't consider them justifications. I don't regret my time with MM, but I really do believe if you are unhappy enough to cheat, unhappy enough to do damage to a potential OW and them your spouse (and family), then just get a divorce.

March 2, 2016

Simple....

My fav podcaster says "Choose wisely and treat kindly".

IMO, many marriages fail cuz they didn't chose right in the first place. They marry and are clueless as to what would make a spouse/parent. They also don't do premarital counseling. So, when "life" happens, they don't pull together, they pull apart cuz they married a stranger. They married cuz it "felt" good. They didn't ask that person their viewpoint on kids, bills, inlaws, religion, sex. They just were happy for a roommate to have.

They don't "treat kindly"...They fart on each other, they pick toe nails in front of each other. They don't do the hard work they did to attract the person while dating. They become "roommates". They sit around waiting for a "feeling" to keep them excited when fact is you have to "work" in a relationship. You have to make time for "each other". Touch each other. Put on some make up. Shave your nosehairs. Life isn't bills and kids. Enjoy each other. Be bf/gfs...lovers.

Lastly "grass is green syndrome". Yes, till the day you die there's someone smarter, hotter, etc than you and what you got. Are you gonna blow your marriage over that?

Edited March 2, 2016 by Gloria25

March 2, 2016

Are there valid things to learn from the OW (or married men) who cheat?

From all of the experiences with married men that OW have, there must be common threads in terms of why the men feel the need to be validated elsewhere, outside of their marriage.

OW- are there things (faithfully) married women can learn from you, in order to strengthen their relationship, based on your knowledge of the cheating husband?

Cheating husbands- what serious advice do you have for wives whom wish to keep their marriages strong and indestructable....even in the face of temptation.
Is there anything we can really do, or do we just have to hope he makes the decision to honor the marriage?

Thanks..

The bottom line in all cases is a weakness in character . . . they may say the wife/husband wasn't meeting their needs. But, in the end, they simply decided to negate the vow they made. IF they had addressed the issues with the partner and the partner did not make accommodations or act on finding a resolution, then they can and should move on. But if they opt to stay and then opt to cheat, they are weak in character. Plain and simple.

do we just have to hope he makes the decision to honor the marriage? -- He's already decided to dishonor it. Don't leave the decision about YOUR life in his hands. He's already shown you that that's not important enough to him. If you "take" him back, you'll be walking on eggshells for a really long time. So will he, but he deserves that, not YOU.

March 2, 2016

OW- are there things (faithfully) married women can learn from you, in order to strengthen their relationship, based on your knowledge of the cheating husband?

I think there are probably as many reasons as there are WS. I'm not sure that the specifics of our situation translate neatly for others, but I guess the upshot is that if she (the BW) had been willing to invest *at all* in the M, the A would not have happened.

* If she had not treated him and the kids so badly all the time, there would have been no epiphany revealing to him that other Rs were much, much better than his with her.

* If she hadn't walked out, hadn't separated for that year, he would not have known how much better he felt without her around.

* if she hadn't traumatised the kids with how she handled the split, the separation could have become permanent amicably.

* If she had kept even some of the promises she made when she begged him to take her back - gone to MC, behaved better, etc - he would not have lost hope in the M and seen it as just a jail sentence to be survived until the kind da were old enough to deal with another split.

* etc.

I'm sure most MW reading this will think, "I don't do that", so it won't apply to them. Some of them may experience infidelity (from whichever role) and some won't, and whether or not they follow that prescription may or may not have anything to do with it. All situations, and all people, differ.

March 2, 2016

From therapy with my WS, low self esteem. How to combat? Recognize it as it comes out in bravado and risky behavior and talk about it.

March 2, 2016

Because men like variety and if they think they can get it without giving up anything, many of them will. Also, as in the Tiger Woods saga, many cheaters have some deep self-esteem problems and are seeking constant validation of how attractive in general they are. That mostly only happens with new people, the flattery and of course winning the chase. There are actually a lot of people like that, who just want that validation they're attractive because it makes them feel momentarily better, but it's a hunger that is never quenched unless they do some extensive therapy and find out the source and begin to change some.

March 2, 2016

Make sure to do everything you can to always be the person he married. Keep yourself fixed nice... treat him with the same respect 20 years later as you would on your wedding day.... don't let your appearance go to "S*&T" Keep intimacy always a priority. Sound like a lot to ask ? ....it's not. It not only will pay dividends for him... but you as well. Year after year. Complacency is a marriage's worst enemy. And being a man I can tell you this...it'll cause infidelity quicker'n anything else. For both men and women.

March 2, 2016

Selfishness causes cheating. Thinking too much of ones own needs and thinking that another person will meet those selfish needs.

That and entitlement.

Yes. this is true. And sometimes the spouse is selfish and the cheater is not getting their needs met despite putting in their best. Someone else often CAN meet those needs - whether it's sex, sexual variety, or simple appreciation of them as a person. Neglect your spouse's needs at your peril!

The most successful and happy marriages are those where both adopt an attitude of kindness and generosity towards each other, and put their spouse's needs and wants on a par with their own. When this isn't done, or becomes unbalanced, the risks of cheating increase.

March 2, 2016

A person that wants to cheat, will. It doesn't matter how good or bad of a spouse one is. There is nothing you can do to keep someone from cheating if that's what they choose to do. My ex told his ow countless times, it wasn't me but him.

March 2, 2016

OW- are there things (faithfully) married women can learn from you, in order to strengthen their relationship, based on your knowledge of the cheating husband?

Cheating husbands- what serious advice do you have for wives whom wish to keep their marriages strong and indestructable....even in the face of temptation.
Is there anything we can really do, or do we just have to hope he makes the decision to honor the marriage?

Thanks..

Caveat, I am not an OW or cheating husband. My husband had a five month emotional affair with one weekend spent together (PA) that I discovered about 11 months ago.

I do like to approach things analytically, so here are my thoughts. First of all, I think you are asking the wrong question. The question should not be, how can I make my marriage strong and indestructible so that my spouse doesn't cheat? The question should be, now that I have picked a worthy partner (if you have . . . if you haven't, then that's a whole different story), how can I make my marriage strong and indestructible so that *I* will not cheat? We are only responsible for our own choices. We can only control whom we let into our lives, and how we react if they turn out to be less deserving in the end than we thought.

I believe that people's likelihood to cheat follows a bell curve, like a lot of things. On one end, you have the small number of people who are very likely to cheat . . . sociopaths, narcissists, people with compulsive behaviors (SA). These people are very likely to cheat and very unlikely to change, so they will be serial cheaters and have no compunction about lying to cover it up. On the other end of the spectrum, you have people who are highly unlikely to cheat, the kind of people who always follow their principles even at high personal cost . . . conscientious objectors, whistle-blowers, etc. Scattered throughout the middle of the curve is most of the population. Some are more highly principled, some are less so. Some have more mature coping skills, some don't. Some are more risk-averse, long-term planners; others are worse at delayed gratification and more likely to take risks. Complicating factors, I think that opposites attract. It's natural to choose a partner whose strengths and weaknesses are the reverse of yours. So you probably have one spouse who is more likely to cheat, and one who is less so, in every relationship. But this predisposition does not excuse a person's choices, just gives some context to them.

So the first thing I think anyone contemplating a long-term relationship should do is figure out where on the spectrum you and your partner fall. The book Not Just Friends has some useful quizzes to this effect. Research shows that people who have parents who cheated, people who hang out with friends who cheat, even people who make over $300k a year are more likely to cheat. This doesn't mean your spouse is, but it's something to consider. Secondly, I think that people need to understand that successful marriages will require work every day of your lives. The goal here is not to convince your lousy cheater to keep it in his pants, but to create a mutually satisfying and healthy relationship. Treat your partner as you want to be treated. If you have chosen a worthy partner who will also strive to treat you as s/he wants to be treated, then I think your marriage will be as strong and indestructible as possible.

I think it's important to understand that it's possible for almost anyone to cheat. I am analytical, reserved, risk-averse. I always look five steps ahead when I make a decision to see where it would lead. I don't believe I am likely to cheat; far from it. However, it would be a fallacy for me to declare, "I would never cheat!" When betrayed spouses say that, what they really mean is, "I was in the same marriage and I didn't choose to cheat!" And then they say, "If your marriage is unhappy, just leave! Don't cheat!" Well, yes. Absolutely. But then these same betrayed spouses justify staying in an unhappy or unhealthy relationship because leaving the marriage is something they are unwilling to do. Sounds a lot like what the cheater was doing when he decided to cheat. It's important not to speak in absolutes. It's important to make healthy choices every step of the way. It's important to recognize that we are human and put checks into the relationship to keep the spouses as a solid unit with all interlopers on the outside.

It's absolutely scary to realize that you can't control what your spouse does. But you can't. You can simply lay out what you will and won't accept and take it from there.

Make sure to do everything you can to always be the person he married. Keep yourself fixed nice... treat him with the same respect 20 years later as you would on your wedding day.... don't let your appearance go to "S*&T" Keep intimacy always a priority. Sound like a lot to ask ? ....it's not. It not only will pay dividends for him... but you as well. Year after year. Complacency is a marriage's worst enemy. And being a man I can tell you this...it'll cause infidelity quicker'n anything else. For both men and women.

I reject this statement wholesale. I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that spouses should treat one another with respect. Likewise, a healthy individual takes care of his or her body. But to say that letting your appearance go and not prioritizing intimacy *causes* infidelity is simply false. Those things may cause one's spouse to be disappointed, less invested, and less attracted to you. But feelings of disappointment or of being less invested in the relationship or less attracted to the partner do not cause or justify lying, cheating, breaking one's vows, etc. They justify reaching out to your partner to see if mutually acceptable change can be reached, or they justify leaving the relationship. They do not justify deceit and exposing one's partner sexually to other partners without her knowledge or consent.

Not Just Friends explains that most men who cheat don't cheat because they weren't *getting* enough at home. They cheat because they weren't *giving* enough at home. Sounds counter-intuitive, but makes sense when you consider the characteristics of most people who make the decision to cheat, the people farther along the curve when it comes to poor boundaries, selfishness, inability to worry about long-term consequences, etc. What I have learned from this whole experience is that worrying about repeated infidelity is really a secondary concern. What concerns me most are the personality traits that led to my husband choosing to cheat when the going got tough. Because the going will always get tough at some point, but there won't always be a desperate spinster telling him, hey, this is crazy, but I have feelings for you. But unless he changes, then there will always be a tendency to compartmentalize, an avoidance of responsibility, a prioritizing of himself before his wife and kids. The affair was a symptom of those issues, not the cause of it. And THAT'S what needs to change for my marriage to be strong and indestructible. Sure, I see areas where I can improve our connection and how much I put into the relationship. But the real weakness is of character, and that means that making the marriage strong requires very hard work, mostly on my husband's part. And that's tough because, as we've already established, we went into this with some serious weaknesses on his part.

And this is why, from what I've read, only about 30% of marriages survive infidelity, and maybe only a quarter of those thrive and rebuild and deal with the issues that caused the infidelity to begin with. I'm not scared of my husband cheating again because if he does, then that settles it. He really isn't worth my time. My fear is that I'll be complacent . . . not in my looks or remembering to stroke his ego. I'm afraid I'll be complacent in my expectations and standards, and slide into accepting a half-hearted effort on his part. I'm afraid I'll settle.

(But don't worry. I won't. )

March 2, 2016

People cheat for various reasons! Some people can have everything and will still cheat where others will have something lacking in their primary relationship and find it elsewhere.

My WH cheated because it's in his nature. He cheated on his past partners, he cheated on me an I don't doubt he will cheat on his future partners.

Saying that at the point in our marriage that he cheated I wasn't the most attentive wife nor did I really have any inclination to be. I married quite young an I think that is a big problem. What I liked and connected with at 18 is completely different to what I liked and connected with 10 years later. (Funnily enough when I found out about his A, I couldn't get enough of him! Massive mistake. I fought for something I didn't really want and regret it but that's another story).. During my marriage I completely changed as a person as I suspect most people do. When I met my husband he was the best person I had ever met... 10 years later we were different people and I know had we met at that point we would never have got together, I doubt we would have even struck up a friendship! Seems crazy

Why my MM cheats I don't know. He also Married young so maybe that is it. He obviously has a compatability with his wife but it seems to be more of a family unit an the husband/wife side seems to have been forgotten about as it seems to in a lot of long marriages.

I have learnt more about how to be a good spouse from being in an A then I ever did from being married. But if the person your with is one of the 'cheat regardless' ones then it doesn't matter how good a spouse you are

March 2, 2016

This is not an easy one to answer. There are MANY reasons a man (or woman) might cheat. I see it all the time and many times I'm blown away. Both my sister in-law and brother in-law cheated. Many friends cheated. All for various reasons. Maybe a few common denominators. Vulnerable. Selfishness. Alcohol involved, spending too much time with that person is a BIG one coupled with a professional relationship gone personal. Brother in-law and sister in-law both had a normal good marriage so I don't think that could be a common denominator. I think low self-esteem, needing validation and boundary issue's are also common. So I think perhaps that is the base and then many layers on top that are unique.

March 2, 2016

Gettingbrave,

I am a BS.

My exH was selfish, lazy, passive/agressive, had poor coping strategies and poor boundaries coupled with a sense of entitlement.

He was happy to stay in the marriage (as a passenger) as long as I did all the work. There was always an excuse as to why he couldn't help me out about the house or fix anything. He wouldn't even take a coffee cup out to the kitchen.

One day I "woke up" and decided I wanted a better deal and started to ask for more from him.

Instead of stepping up to the plate he started to look for a replacement. He found a girl at work who was younger, vulnerable and naiive. They had an affair, which I discovered and subsequently divorced him.

They got married after she got pregnant and they are still together after about 15 years. Now they have 2 kids. He goes to work, comes home and sits on his @r$e all night, just like he used to do with me.

So maybe she's stopped him from straying by meeting his every selfish need and asking for nothing for herself, but who the heck wants to be nothing more than a sexual housekeeper and go to bed exhausted every night?

March 3, 2016

Gettingbrave,

I am a BS.

My exH was selfish, lazy, passive/agressive, had poor coping strategies and poor boundaries coupled with a sense of entitlement.

He was happy to stay in the marriage (as a passenger) as long as I did all the work. There was always an excuse as to why he couldn't help me out about the house or fix anything. He wouldn't even take a coffee cup out to the kitchen.
One day I "woke up" and decided I wanted a better deal and started to ask for more from him.

Instead of stepping up to the plate he started to look for a replacement. He found a girl at work who was younger, vulnerable and naiive. They had an affair, which I discovered and subsequently divorced him.

They got married after she got pregnant and they are still together after about 15 years. Now they have 2 kids. He goes to work, comes home and sits on his @r$e all night, just like he used to do with me.

So maybe she's stopped him from straying by meeting his every selfish need and asking for nothing for herself, but who the heck wants to be nothing more than a sexual housekeeper and go to bed exhausted every night?

Either way, he can't make women happy. Don't let the picture perfect facade fool ya, she's unhappy even if she doesn't realize it . . . And, you don't know for sure that he's not straying.

just like he used to do with me. -- He still found a way to get with that one . . . She just hasn't found out yet.

March 3, 2016

Make sure to do everything you can to always be the person he married. Keep yourself fixed nice... treat him with the same respect 20 years later as you would on your wedding day.... don't let your appearance go to "S*&T" Keep intimacy always a priority. Sound like a lot to ask ? ....it's not. It not only will pay dividends for him... but you as well. Year after year. Complacency is a marriage's worst enemy. And being a man I can tell you this...it'll cause infidelity quicker'n anything else. For both men and women.

This does apply to both men and women. Again, I didn't cheat while married, but I wanted to. One of the many reasons was a bad time in the bedroom. We were close to the same height, but he weighed twice what I did and I wasn't skinny. I'd get panicky if he was on top during sex. But, he was pretty quick.

I do think treating your spouse well every single day, not doing things to sabotage them out of thoughtlessness (we all do them, don't pick up ourselves, don't put things back where they belong, treat them like servants) and just making the time for them are things that can help keep the spouse who could go either way from straying.

Whew, that's a run-on sentence.

What I'm trying to say is: the sociopathic narcissist is going to stray no matter what. Their going to future fake with the Other, just like they are future faking with their spouse. Those are lost causes. You can't make someone grow a conscience or demand they empathize.

But those men and women in the middle, those are the ones who are at risk. The woman who is an excellent mother and has a great job. One night too many of her husband falling asleep before 700 PM, leaving her to clean up from supper and wrangle children and she's looking for someone who can make her feel special again. The man who works, participates fully in raising the children and household chores, but is constantly shot down in the bedroom,. These are the types who may seek someone else when they just can't change the way things are. They may also be conflict avoidant and against therapy.

Both of those are real life examples, told to me by two different female friends. In the second one, she admits to sabotaging the marriage.

I was thinking of how society could prevent Others. More specifically, Other Women. Shaming, hostility and preaching morals is not the most effective. This last time, I was an OW out of convenience, so possibly if I had a more stringent belief in no premarital sex....eh, I'm divorced. My chastity has left the building.

But if the young women of today are raised to not cross those lines, to not be susceptible to flattery and seduction. If they can rebuff the advances and maintain boundaries, even when those around them aren't.

March 3, 2016

For my married man the more obvious reasons were:

Self esteem / validation that he was attractive etc.

Indulging in kinks his wife would never go for

And he simply said, when it comes to marriage, he doesn't believe that one person can meet all of the needs / desires of another.

I am essentially a "WW" and I would say my reasons were much the same as his.

March 3, 2016

This does apply to both men and women. Again, I didn't cheat while married, but I wanted to. One of the many reasons was a bad time in the bedroom. We were close to the same height, but he weighed twice what I did and I wasn't skinny. I'd get panicky if he was on top during sex. But, he was pretty quick.

I do think treating your spouse well every single day, not doing things to sabotage them out of thoughtlessness (we all do them, don't pick up ourselves, don't put things back where they belong, treat them like servants) and just making the time for them are things that can help keep the spouse who could go either way from straying.

Whew, that's a run-on sentence.

What I'm trying to say is: the sociopathic narcissist is going to stray no matter what. Their going to future fake with the Other, just like they are future faking with their spouse. Those are lost causes. You can't make someone grow a conscience or demand they empathize.

But those men and women in the middle, those are the ones who are at risk. The woman who is an excellent mother and has a great job. One night too many of her husband falling asleep before 700 PM, leaving her to clean up from supper and wrangle children and she's looking for someone who can make her feel special again. The man who works, participates fully in raising the children and household chores, but is constantly shot down in the bedroom,. These are the types who may seek someone else when they just can't change the way things are. They may also be conflict avoidant and against therapy.

Both of those are real life examples, told to me by two different female friends. In the second one, she admits to sabotaging the marriage.

I was thinking of how society could prevent Others. More specifically, Other Women. Shaming, hostility and preaching morals is not the most effective. This last time, I was an OW out of convenience, so possibly if I had a more stringent belief in no premarital sex....eh, I'm divorced. My chastity has left the building.

But if the young women of today are raised to not cross those lines, to not be susceptible to flattery and seduction. If they can rebuff the advances and maintain boundaries, even when those around them aren't.

I think most already are raised that way. That's why a majority of the post start with "I know what I'm doing is wrong." For me, the issue isn't the other, it's the straying spouse. I always say he wrecked the marriage and she was the cheap tool he used to do it. He never spoke to her again after I found out. She moved on to the next husband and is being sued by his bw. There could have been a hundred women hitting on him and he could have remained faithful had he chosen to.

March 3, 2016

I think most already are raised that way. That's why a majority of the post start with "I know what I'm doing is wrong." For me, the issue isn't the other, it's the straying spouse. I always say he wrecked the marriage and she was the cheap tool he used to do it. He never spoke to her again after I found out. She moved on to the next husband and is being sued by his bw. There could have been a hundred women hitting on him and he could have remained faithful had he chosen to.

I answered your PM.

Oooohhhhh.....flattery, that is a killer. Ever seen a woman preen or her face light up when someone she isn't related to tells her she looks nice or she did a great job on this or that? Maybe a slightly ugly ducking is getting some attention, or a lot of attention from a married someone. Maybe her dad was absent or she's still in her 20s and really hasn't connected with her parents fully on an adult level.

Or those that are seduced by MM who claim to be separated or open marriage.

"No thank you, I'm not interested in a married man"

What parent thinks to tell their daughter that line?

Even better:

No, thank you, I'm not interested in a married man. Don't you think I deserve better than that? I certainly do.

March 3, 2016

Lady2163 post 20#

What I'm trying to say is: the sociopathic narcissist is going to stray no matter what. Their going to future fake with the Other, just like they are future faking with their spouse. Those are lost causes. You can't make someone grow a conscience or demand they empathize.

^^^^^^ This is spot-on, couldn't agree more

I would add that conflict-avoidance plays a part as well.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Arieswoman

March 3, 2016

I dont think you can come up with any specific generalization for men.

I have never cheated...ever. I considered myself very high integrity and I suppose others do as well. However without going into my long back story - the thought has occurred to me over time.

Its easy to just say "sex" and focus on something like the act of a BJ....but if it were a simple "act" I wanted I could go see a escort (someone advised me to do this). But that's not specifically what I want, I want to be desired, and to desire. Its a much about me getting off as it is being with someone who really gets off on me - that I rock her world. Mutual adoration and passion I guess. Maybe I confuse sex and love...some men do this.

Sorry if this makes me sound like a bad person for having these thoughts. I suppose if I really did want to - I could have made it happen, but I have remained faithful all these years with all the losses I have had to accept. My marriage has gotten better in most areas over the years - except this one. Hope this helps OP.

Edited March 3, 2016 by dichotomy

March 3, 2016

Dichotomy, I think you are spot on. It's what my wh did, exactly, and it seems common, especially if the ap is someone close - coworker, nanny, neighbor. It's not a sex only situation or soulmate situation - it's easy adoration on the way to the break room, hidden behind the nobility of "I'm working late".

My wh flattered his cow in exchange for sex and flattery, she gave him sex and flattery in exchange for what she thought was status for screwing the boss. It was a few months of foreplay (working late again!) that ended in a 4-5 month physical affair. It didn't end well. He thought it would fizzle and no one would ever know, she thought they were going to be the newest industry power couple. Among the pile of problems with this plan: she's 50 and still in entry level positions after 25 yrs, so not a qualified vp, and he doesn't quite possess the power and money she believed he did, and viagra, well, yeah. Plus two betrayed spouses and seven kids.

And I think that was the crux: when he was with her, he was a Titan of industry. She was special because they shared a secret and she believed his lies & wanted to be part of those lies. He could say he wasn't leaving me for her, but by sleeping with her, he showed her he was willing to risk the marriage for her. Reality was this business was floundering, he was using his mother's money for the affair, the employees and his family were being treated horribly and customers were complaining (embarassingly) about the cow and taking business elsewhere. And she was a married mother of 4 who had a long history of (trying) sleeping her way to the top but was still at the bottom of her field and lacked professionalism. When you opened the curtain, they were 2 small pathetic impotent people. But the lure of the lie was very strong for a while. They didn't fall in love - like with a lot of manipulators and people who have narcissistic tendencies, this was a transactional relationship with neither party completely at ease. Lies and greed do that.

Fantasy is all fine and good, but the destruction and pain and financial loss, plus my blindsided kids who lost innocence and respect for their dad was far too real.

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