Terrible date! He wants to know why..

[Jabron1]

Listen you Jabronie, he is manning up. The problem is he doesn't know how to do it the right way.

 

I was being a bit facetious, mate .

 

This guy has got everything so wrong that giving him a few tips over a text message is not going to even scratch the surface. What he needs is a complete ego-destruction, and a clean slate.

 

At least he is showing willingness to change though, so there's some self-awareness. I'll give the lad that.

 

But in asking a woman essentially 'why don't you like me?', he is perpetuating the very reason why women won't like him.

 

He should have enough value, that when a woman rejects him, he just sneers and says 'her loss' before moving on to the next one - preferably her sister.

 

Edit: and the OP shouldn't be taking dating advice from quacks. That's never going to end well. OP probably knows more about the dating scene than this 'therapist'.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jabron1

[AMJ]

 

I thought, I'd be ahead of the game. I'd be comfortable, hence she'd be comfortable.

 

So, interesting to read that perhaps that may not have been a good location. I think though, since she liked me, it probably wouldn't have mattered?? I dunno.

 

In the end, she suggested a more upscale pricier place. In hindsight, and after reading this thread, I think this was a better place. We sat on an outdoor patio; no loud music; just her and I one-on-one.

 

The best date places are anywhere two people can have a conversation and feel comfortable. Loud, crowded bars are great for people who already know each other and just want to have a good time.

 

It's not that he took me to his favorite place. It's not even so much that I was introduced by name to the owners. It's that I got the feeling he was bringing me there to make himself look better, and the owners had this reaction of surprise, as in, they'd never seen him bring a date there before.

 

One of my exes brought me to his favorite place on our first date. This was a members-only social/athletic club, a pretty exclusive place, clearly I was impressed. The waiters also knew him by name, I was introduced. I got the feeling however, they were used to seeing him in there with lots of different women. And that he cared how they treated his dates, so they were extremely polite to me. This was also a red flag, but for a completely opposite reason than the date I just went on.

 

 

I see you already responded to this guy AMJ, so at this point this is more of a comment on the general topic.

 

It is very hard for you, or specifically, someone in your situation to give feedback, that would actually be helpful. Part of it is that if you get to the heart of the matter, you risk emotionally crushing the guy. Another part of it is, as angel.eyes said, plenty of eccentric guys find love. Maybe the answer is for him to find someone who gets his weirdness, instead of trying to smooth over the rougher edges of his personality.

 

If I were his dating coach though, I could be a lot more truthful. I'd tell him the fundamental problem: Women don't like to date guys who give the impression of being beaten-down by life. Women often date eccentric guys, and they sometimes date guys who don't have money, but few attractive women in their 30s want to date a beaten-down guy.

 

That was precisely the impression that this guy gave off though. That he seemed to have nothing going on in his life besides work and hanging out in a bar where he didn't even seem to be liked that much, and well, there you go. The awkward social skills only added to that impression. I absolutely can see why you wouldn't have felt attraction for someone like that. It's hard for someone in your position to say that feedback to this guy without it coming across really harsh, but that us the heart of the matter, am I wrong.

 

I think you did the right, compassionate, thing by getting back to him and pointing out how the way he handled the date made things awkward--ESPECIALLY going for the kiss at the end when it was clear you weren't into it. Hopefully that gives him enough to work with.

 

Meanwhile, I don't know what type of guy you are usually attracted to, but I find that advice by your therapist to be strange. Just because your type in the past hasn't worked for you doesn't mean that someone who is clearly NOT that type will work for you. As long as you aren't drawn to men by their issues or their unavailability, there's nothing wrong with dating only guys you feel there is a good chance of attraction and connection. I mean, how is you going on dates with "nice guys" who come across as the guy who is the subject of this thread, where you feel no attraction whatsoever, and then end up feeling bad for having to reject them after, good for ANYONE?

 

I agree with all of this 100%.

 

As it turns out, I do have an issue of winding up with emotionally unavailable men. The advice as to date men I'd normally not be attracted to, is to try to help me figure out how to unbreak my own patterns.

 

That said, I probably shouldn't have gone out with this guy in the first place. It's so hard to know what people will be like based on their profile- this issue is mentioned all the time on Loveshack. I thought, his profile is pretty weak, but maybe he's just not good at making profiles? And I'm actually pretty turned off by men who put tons of effort into their profiles anyway, so...how can it hurt?

Hopefully he's not extremely crushed or anything. I wasn't rude to him at all, it was only an hour or so of our lives on a Thursday.

 

I was being a bit facetious, mate .

 

This guy has got everything so wrong that giving him a few tips over a text message is not going to even scratch the surface. What he needs is a complete ego-destruction, and a clean slate.

 

At least he is showing willingness to change though, so there's some self-awareness. I'll give the lad that.

 

But in asking a woman essentially 'why don't you like me?', he is perpetuating the very reason why women won't like him.

 

He should have enough value, that when a woman rejects him, he just sneers and says 'her loss' before moving on to the next one - preferably her sister.

 

Edit: and the OP shouldn't be taking dating advice from quacks. That's never going to end well. OP probably knows more about the dating scene than this 'therapist'.

 

It's true, I know much more about the dating scene than my 60something year old therapist. I'm just utilizing her advice however, because I've found myself making bad relationship choices. Everyone says- the problem isn't me, it's who I date...but the common denominator is me, and you can only get so much advice from Cosmo and Sarah Jessica Parker, or my married friends, or Loveshack.

 

No one likes being rejected. Truly confident people can bounce right back, but at a certain point it gets more and more difficult to build your confidence back. I don't think it's a turnoff that he asked for feedback. I think he's a really nice guy who has no clue, and has no one to ask for advice.

 

The social awkwardness, his bad manners, his lack of a "life" outside of his job, those were the main turnoffs for me. And no sense of humor. I need a guy who makes me laugh.

 

At the same time, I agree- how helpful can the few sentences I wrote in my message actually be? Most of us learned how to date while we were younger, and we talked all this stuff through with our friends to learn what we were doing right and wrong. For some reason he never did that.

[al78]

Being so blunt can make him insecure, and that's not fair to him. You should have just said sorry i dont think we have a connection and leave it at that. Insecurity really plays on someones mind over and over, and that is not easy to overcome. I doubt you would like it as well.

 

There is a saying my father uses in situations like this:

 

If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

 

He asked the question, therefore give him a tactful answer.

[angel.eyes]

And I'm actually pretty turned off by men who put tons of effort into their profiles anyway...

:confused:

Why?

 

I'm glad when I see men taking the dating process seriously. I find that very attractive.

[AMJ]

:confused:

Why?

 

I'm glad when I see men taking the dating process seriously. I find that very attractive.

 

I don't want to be a guy with is more girly than me. Professional photos, photos of them posing in any way tell me that he cares way too much about his appearance. People who are most attractive to me, are those who just throw up a few candid shots that they took while they were with their friends, doing whatever activities they naturally do in life...not strategically taking hot photos for their dating profile. Or when they write long lists of what type of woman they're looking for, or paragraphs about themselves, to me that demonstrates a person is high-maintenance. Or maybe that they are a little insecure and have something to prove. I want someone who is secure with their life, happy about who they are, doesn't feel the need to be someone they're not just to get a girlfriend.

 

That stuff probably doesn't bother all women, it's just my preference.

[AMJ]

He did not reply to my response. I said:

 

You are a really nice guy, I just didn't feel a connection, I'm sorry. Maybe on your next date don't sit so close to the bar so you can have privacy? It was a little awkward to talk since you know the owners and staff so well. Also I tried to say goodbye without a kiss, but you seemed to ignore what I wanted. That's just my perspective, I'm sure there's women out there who think I'm wrong!

[soph-walker]

In reading your original post again, one word comes to mind.

 

Aspergers.

 

This.

 

I agree so much with this!

 

I would favour honesty, but having said that, it's a hard pill to swallow when it's not the answer you're after.

 

Dating sucks balls and for me it's been a huge learning game. I'd suggest that you don't get into a dialogue with him, but offer some sort of feedback. (Not read the entire thread: you may well have already given him feedback)

[Jame22]

Why don't you just give him the link to this post?

[Leigh 87]

In reading your original post again, one word comes to mind.

 

Aspergers.

 

I have Asberges.

 

I wasn't that odd but I was pretty damn close and I only became highly functioning ( read: a LOT of decent men wanting second third and forth dates withme) because people pulled me up.

 

People with Asberges can sometimes learn to act mostly normal. I did.

 

I honestly wouldn't have improved so much if itweren't for criticism and feedback. ....... many people outright hurt my feelings.... " Gosh you're weird Leigh 87" or " haha you're a fcken idiot why would u do that"

 

I lost out on decent men when younger and have even got let go from jobs due to my Asberges.

 

I know it's harsh and he may not be able to help it, however, when an Asberges afflicted individual asks what's up with their behavior it is usually because they pocess some self awareness is actually embarrassed.

 

When I felt ashamed or embarrassed in the past due to my Asberges, I ALWAYS knew when I behaved awkwardly. Always! I just knew I didn't do things right. Something felt off and I pretty much knew right away that I'd done or said something wrong.

 

I recommend that she just outright tell him. It's been done to me before and itis the only thing that helped me.

[Leigh 87]

This.

 

I agree so much with this!

 

I would favour honesty, but having said that, it's a hard pill to swallow when it's not the answer you're after.

 

Dating sucks balls and for me it's been a huge learning game. I'd suggest that you don't get into a dialogue with him, but offer some sort of feedback. (Not read the entire thread: you may well have already given him feedback)

 

I am a sensative person with Asberges.

 

I was crushed many times when people called me out on deviant or anti social behavior; I just wanted to be pleasant with everyone and get along!

 

It was humiliating and even made me cry with frustrating and shame.

 

But it was the absolute best thing for me. I am now highly functioning, decent men want to date me and socially my friends say I'm totally normal now.

 

I honestly had to learn the hard way. I had to demonstrate antisocial behavior, and have people tell me how weird and abnormal I was. It stung but ot is the ONLY reason I changed for the better so much and now enjoy the same social life my non Asberges mates have.

[AMJ]

So I really do appreciate all of the feedback people have given- truly. I wrote him a brief message listing the awkwardness of no privacy and him not understanding that I really didn't want him to kiss me. He hasn't replied, which hopefully means nothing, as I'd feel pretty terrible if he's now drinking himself into a three day long bender at the wine bar we went to...but I'm asking because I've never actually met someone with Aspergers- or at least, that I know of. But if you have Aspergers, why won't you just tell people that you have it?

 

It would make the whole giving him direct feedback thing a little bit easier. I mean, I get that it's embarrassing to admit, but I'm going to find out sooner or later, so..idk.

[Lady2163]

I am a sensative person with Asberges.

 

I was crushed many times when people called me out on deviant or anti social behavior; I just wanted to be pleasant with everyone and get along!

 

It was humiliating and even made me cry with frustrating and shame.

 

But it was the absolute best thing for me. I am now highly functioning, decent men want to date me and socially my friends say I'm totally normal now.

 

I honestly had to learn the hard way. I had to demonstrate antisocial behavior, and have people tell me how weird and abnormal I was. It stung but ot is the ONLY reason I changed for the better so much and now enjoy the same social life my non Asberges mates have.

 

I'm more inclined that the OP should be incredibly tactful and offer specific things this man can change.

 

Last I knew, and it has been years, but the leading cause of death among Aspergers men and boys was suicide.

 

If he is autistic, he already knows. I'm sure growing up his parents may not have had a diagnosis, but I'm sure they often corrected his behavior. And you can be certain his peers corrected it negatively.

 

If you must answer him, stick to 2-3 points and keep the sentences short. Chose areas he can actually fix.

[AMJ]

I'm more inclined that the OP should be incredibly tactful and offer specific things this man can change.

 

Last I knew, and it has been years, but the leading cause of death among Aspergers men and boys was suicide.

.

 

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

[scorpiogirl]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

No, this is NOT your responsibility. You were nice enough to even consider this feedback nonsense.

I also think this Aspergers diagnosis is thrown around on this board more often than necessary. He might have it, or he might just be awkward and have no concept of boundaries. Unless he's said he has it, I'd just disregard that aspect.

 

I really think you can put this to bed. I might just be a cold hearted wench but I wouldn't have spent this much energy on it. I think this was probably just his way of prolonging contact with you. The fact that he kissed you when you clearly didn't want it would've just made me not even give him a minute longer of my time.

[Els]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

Relax. One can hardly blame you for offering something that he ASKED for - and besides, you did it nicely. If he hadn't asked for feedback and you had sent him a nasty text with lots of unsolicited criticism then that would have been too far, but what you did was fine.

 

As long as we adhere to reasonable principles, we shouldn't live our lives fearing that someone will commit suicide because of what we did or said.

[lino]

Absolute hullabaloo over nothing.

 

You simply didn't like this guy, it doesn't warrant a multi page thread. Move on to the guys that you do like. Just don't complain if they reject you as you have this fellow. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, or so it should be at least.

[Lady2163]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

You don't have to "worry" about it, but what does it cost you to be kind?

 

Feelings are everywhere. You've told us enough that this guy probably has something not quite...normal.

[road]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

 

Is it any man's fault that if after one date with you he has been ruined for any other women.

 

 

Seriously I do not think that you have anything to worry about with him.

[Lady2163]

So I really do appreciate all of the feedback people have given- truly. I wrote him a brief message listing the awkwardness of no privacy and him not understanding that I really didn't want him to kiss me. He hasn't replied, which hopefully means nothing, as I'd feel pretty terrible if he's now drinking himself into a three day long bender at the wine bar we went to...but I'm asking because I've never actually met someone with Aspergers- or at least, that I know of. But if you have Aspergers, why won't you just tell people that you have it?

 

It would make the whole giving him direct feedback thing a little bit easier. I mean, I get that it's embarrassing to admit, but I'm going to find out sooner or later, so..idk.

 

I missed this post, you were kind, direct and constructive. You didn't go for the stuff he can't change.

[905]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

 

This is not an easy situation, and it's clear you want to help. Kudos to you. I want to discourage anyone from throwing around words like suicide and aspergers, because they are being used in ignorance, about someone we don't have the capability to comment on. Speculating about medical issues, especially anything affecting someone's behaviour or psychological health, encourages ignorance.

 

AMJ, you have tried to be compassionate. That's the reason you don't need to think about things like suicide etc. If you were prone to unkindness, then it might be relevant to caution you, but you aren't, so forget that remark.

[Jabron1]

Ahhhh!!!! What?! Now I have to worry about suicide? Shyte.

 

How much am I really responsible for here? He's an adult, it was one date, right?

 

No, I'm not having that. You aren't responsible for this fellas life.

 

I once had a girl stalking me. She tried to blackmail me into going out with her by threatening suicide. I just ignored it, and she soon started bothering someone else. Some people are just nuts, but it's their problem and not mine or yours.

 

You have to know where to draw a line with altruism. You've done more for this guy than most would. Enough is enough.

 

If I thought that you owed this guy anything, I would say so. You don't.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Jabron1