His wife texted me asking to meet- what do I do? [Updated 2016-12-2]

March 30, 2016

Your kids are so young, Mayday.
I hope you'll get your life in order soon, because all of this is so unfair to them.

We're all going to live it. Baby is their sister. Their own Dad is gone living with another Woman on the other side of the country, I can't motivate him to be Dad. And baby's Dad is who he is and I have no idea if he wants visitation or not, I hope I'll find out at court in May what HE genuinely wants. If he wants no baby interaction we all will have to figure out how to move forward living life that way, if he however does want to really know her (maybe not now, maybe when she's older) we all have to figure out that too. All my kids are December babies so they're 3 & 5 now and baby is 13 weeks. The kids have been kept ignorant to this. My daughter assumes her Dad is baby's Dad, no one has corrected her.

March 30, 2016

That may be true. My husband of 10 years has not called not seen his 2 young children with me since August. I have watched my children watch the dads at the park with a sort of longing that I've never seen before. I don't want new baby to go through that, too. I figure if I can try and prevent her being sad in the same fashion as my big kids I may as well try.

You all can see things I can't. You are an outside perspective I need because for so long I was so lost.

If you truly want this, I suggest (even though it may be uncomfortable and hard) when you finally meet exMM's wife, show her compassion, understanding and most of all your desire to put your daughter first. No drama, no bullcrap, no games. Just honesty and allowing him (and her) to spend time with your daughter.

Eventually (if things work out) you all will have to work together to make it work. Even family counseling for all of you together may help (again, this is further into the future depending on how things play out in the up coming months) create a healthy atmosphere.

March 31, 2016

We're all going to live it. Baby is their sister. Their own Dad is gone living with another Woman on the other side of the country, I can't motivate him to be Dad. And baby's Dad is who he is and I have no idea if he wants visitation or not, I hope I'll find out at court in May what HE genuinely wants. If he wants no baby interaction we all will have to figure out how to move forward living life that way, if he however does want to really know her (maybe not now, maybe when she's older) we all have to figure out that too. All my kids are December babies so they're 3 & 5 now and baby is 13 weeks. The kids have been kept ignorant to this. My daughter assumes her Dad is baby's Dad, no one has corrected her.

I haven't yet commented on this thread becauae it is very long and I hadn't had the time to go through it, but I wanted to for a long time.

I also have a child with my exMM and we are in the process of establishing visitation and child support. Our situations are somewhat different so I don't want to go off topic with my personal decisions and situations, however there is one thing I want to advise you: be patient and forge your own happiness.

My daughter is 5 and she is my only focus. The most important thing was to give her stability and security, emotionally, physically and financially.

He did not want any part in her life at the time and while it tore me up (just like you describe) I ploughed forward, completed my degrees and built an independent life for just the two of us. There was no drama and chaos. Eventually he turned around and we will begin the process of slowly integrating him into her life.

What I am trying to say is, focus on building a life for yourself and your children where you don't have to rely on anyone and leave the door open for their fathers to be involved if that is what they want. Patience is the key.

March 31, 2016

I haven't yet commented on this thread becauae it is very long and I hadn't had the time to go through it, but I wanted to for a long time.

I also have a child with my exMM and we are in the process of establishing visitation and child support. Our situations are somewhat different so I don't want to go off topic with my personal decisions and situations, however there is one thing I want to advise you: be patient and forge your own happiness.

My daughter is 5 and she is my only focus. The most important thing was to give her stability and security, emotionally, physically and financially.

He did not want any part in her life at the time and while it tore me up (just like you describe) I ploughed forward, completed my degrees and built an independent life for just the two of us. There was no drama and chaos. Eventually he turned around and we will begin the process of slowly integrating him into her life.

What I am trying to say is, focus on building a life for yourself and your children where you don't have to rely on anyone and leave the door open for their fathers to be involved if that is what they want. Patience is the key.

Did you still have feelings for him, on some level hoping that he'd come to you and you all would be a family? Or did you just want him to be involved from a co parenting level? May is still in love with her exMM and there could be a part of her that still is quietly hoping he'll choose her. (I could be wrong on that, if I am, please correct me May).

March 31, 2016

Did you still have feelings for him, on some level hoping that he'd come to you and you all would be a family? Or did you just want him to be involved from a co parenting level? May is still in love with her exMM and there could be a part of her that still is quietly hoping he'll choose her. (I could be wrong on that, if I am, please correct me May).

Actually, his behavior upon finding out I was pregnant was a real eye-opening experience and any romance between us had ended.

In that moment, I realized that the two of us were living in a bubble, seperated from the reality of this situation (a potentially life destroying affair). The bubble had burst and this reality hit us. In this new light, I think he realized how much he doesn't want to lose his family and I realized where I stood on his list of priorities, leading me to cool off immediately.

May, I hope you too have that moment where you see things in their true light. Our own false perceptions and delusions can cause us the most damage in life.

March 31, 2016

Did you still have feelings for him, on some level hoping that he'd come to you and you all would be a family? Or did you just want him to be involved from a co parenting level? May is still in love with her exMM and there could be a part of her that still is quietly hoping he'll choose her. (I could be wrong on that, if I am, please correct me May).

I still love MM, but I'm not in love with him. I'll always love him as there are things I just can't share right now. But I don't want a live with him, I don't trust him. I refuse to devote my life to someone I can't trust, I deserve better. Right now my focus is on the daughter we share and making sure if he wants a relationship with her, I forge that for her. But I went to my lawyer today he got ALL his paperwork back. He is not requesting custody or visitation on any documents. The calculator is awarding our daughter 1/8 of his reported monthly salary but that's going to be complicated because MM withheld a lot of financial information.

March 31, 2016

I still love MM, but I'm not in love with him. I'll always love him as there are things I just can't share right now. But I don't want a live with him, I don't trust him. I refuse to devote my life to someone I can't trust, I deserve better. Right now my focus is on the daughter we share and making sure if he wants a relationship with her, I forge that for her. But I went to my lawyer today he got ALL his paperwork back. He is not requesting custody or visitation on any documents. The calculator is awarding our daughter 1/8 of his reported monthly salary but that's going to be complicated because MM withheld a lot of financial information.

It sounds like the MM and his wife may have decided to just pay child support and go no contact with you and the baby. This is not unusual.

How do you know he is withholding financial information other than things he told you? Also, will he carry your daughter on his insurance?

Edited March 31, 2016 by Ms. Faust

March 31, 2016

I still love MM, but I'm not in love with him. I'll always love him as there are things I just can't share right now. But I don't want a live with him, I don't trust him. I refuse to devote my life to someone I can't trust, I deserve better. Right now my focus is on the daughter we share and making sure if he wants a relationship with her, I forge that for her. But I went to my lawyer today he got ALL his paperwork back. He is not requesting custody or visitation on any documents. The calculator is awarding our daughter 1/8 of his reported monthly salary but that's going to be complicated because MM withheld a lot of financial information.

Do you already have an estimation of what you will be recieving? And do you think it will be sufficient to provide your daughter with everything she needs?

March 31, 2016

It sounds like the MM and his wife may have decided to just pay child support and go no contact with you and the baby. This is not unusual.

How do you know he is withholding financial information other than things he told you? Also, will he carry your daughter on his insurance?

When he was drunk he revealed investment properties and a trust. He did not list a 401k or life insurance, either. I assume they either don't want to until the paternity proves baby as his or they don't want to at all. But he made it very plain on nights when he was drinking that there is money at play on his side.

As to the other poster- I have the baby on state insurance (Medicaid) which is the same as myself, I pay nothing out of pocket. I assume they'll kick her off once dad comes into play? I need to ask my lawyer.

March 31, 2016

Mayday,

This is about what I expected and I actually don't think it's a bad thing. It will give you stability to at least know what they want.

I don't know how it works in your state but deferred income (retirement, 401k) may not calculate into child support directly. The state I live in goes off of gross income and adjusts for many things in arriving at the final calculation (almost all states now use a mandatory calculation created by the state). Also, in my state only, inheritance is not calculated into child support. It strictly goes off of gross income as a parent is not required to pass on windfalls to a child. As you are on Medicaid, in my state, a parent would be required to provide insurance for a child so once paternity is established, he would be required to do that because the state doesn't pay a liability a parent can afford. (State is payer of last resort.)

Now, he's a professor so he may have earnings related to publishing and speaker fees. Plus, if he is living off of any inheritance right now (I.e. Paying taxes on them) then it is no longer deferred and he may have to pay some of that in support of his child.

Here's the deal, though. CS is largely formulaic so you should now have a good idea of what to expect. Also, remember the CS goes off of income. Assets which are not related to income don't get calculated in (generally). So hopefully, this gives you an idea you can plan around financially as well as some closure as to what their involvement with your baby will be.

I hope all of that gives you some peace. I know you love him and I am so sorry for your hurt but I feel like you are on the way to recovery and to a more stable future.

March 31, 2016

Should add that the presumption on the inheritance is that it is deferred and they do not draw interest or use any of it as income. If they do draw significant interest and/or draw down money from an inheritance to support their lifestyle, in my state it becomes income.

Sorry for any confusion. Your state may very well be different and you should speak with your attorney for clarification.

March 31, 2016

Should add that the presumption on the inheritance is that it is deferred and they do not draw interest or use any of it as income. If they do draw significant interest and/or draw down money from an inheritance to support their lifestyle, in my state it becomes income.

Sorry for any confusion. Your state may very well be different and you should speak with your attorney for clarification.

Wow thank you so much. My lawyer is a very jumbled talker and you put this all very plainly.

I know he did not list debt. He must have paid around $500k for his education and did not list any of that. He only listed around $14k for credit cards.

March 31, 2016

Georgia i know he mentioned once asking his uncle to give him around $15k from the trust to pay for his wife's chiropractic bills. Is that what you were meaning?

March 31, 2016

In all likelihood, the only income that matters for child support is that the will show up on his income tax return (and just his, her income will be irrelevant). Debt usually isn't a factor. Is the father of your older children paying support?

For example, financial gifts are generally not included as income. (IE if his parents give him money under a certain amount).

and if the inheritance was hers, it certainly won't count.

It sounds like there is no plan for an in person relationship. I think this will be better for you. Easier to let go of what I think is a lingering desire for a family with him at the head. I know you say you don't want that, but I am not so convinced that you don't hold out hope for that very thing.

March 31, 2016

Mayday,

There's no way for me to be sure based on what you wrote, but I can give you some general guidelines. (Please note, however, that I'm not providing legal advice... these are just general statements about generally accepted CS concepts.)

In a lot of ways, it goes down to whatever he demonstrates on his income tax return. So, if he took a $15,000 gift from an uncle out of some sort of trust in the past year, he had to pay taxes on it and it would show up on his tax return. That increased his gross income for the year and it could affect his CS. However, if he can demonstrate that it was a one-time gift and wouldn't be repeated in a following year, then his gross income falls back down and CS is calculated off of that.

As for debt, I'm not sure and I really want to also draw the line at providing legal advice here. In general, though, his debt doesn't matter... this is a gross income calculation. However, there are always caveats to that. For example, if he had some sort of catastrophic illness or injury that devastated his family financially, he could ask for a child support modification.

Be careful as well when someone tells you how wealthy they are. I often find many folks live beyond their means and if someone tells you they're carrying $500,000 in educational debt, then I think his statements of wealth may be overblown. Why wouldn't he have simply paid the tuition fees out of pocket rather than borrow?

I hope that helps. What I would advise you to do is to google your state's child support system. You seem very articulate and while these are complex concepts, I think you would easily be able to assimilate the information there.

March 31, 2016

Wow thank you so much. My lawyer is a very jumbled talker and you put this all very plainly.

I know he did not list debt. He must have paid around $500k for his education and did not list any of that. He only listed around $14k for credit cards.

Oops. Misread that... he may have paid tuition fees and/or paid off his loans if he hasn't listed it as debt. However, I still hold to my statements that he may have overblown his wealth to you. Anyone carrying $14,000 in credit card debt is likely living beyond their means.

March 31, 2016

Wow thank you so much. My lawyer is a very jumbled talker and you put this all very plainly.

I know he did not list debt. He must have paid around $500k for his education and did not list any of that. He only listed around $14k for credit cards.

How can someone have 500k in debt for a PhD???? :eek: Did he attend a private school?

My husband has a PhD in Physics, he attended two of the top schools in his field, and is also in academia, and he has nowhere near that amount of debt, not even close. Actually, he has no school debt, but had he taken out loans throughout his undergrad and PhD I don't see how he could come close to that amount.

EDIT: sorry, misread, I see you mean now he must have PAID.

And this all depends. My husband did not pay a single dime for his masters and PhD, in fact the university paid HIM. But he went into a high demand STEM field.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Ms. Faust

March 31, 2016

Mayday,

There's no way for me to be sure based on what you wrote, but I can give you some general guidelines. (Please note, however, that I'm not providing legal advice... these are just general statements about generally accepted CS concepts.)

In a lot of ways, it goes down to whatever he demonstrates on his income tax return. So, if he took a $15,000 gift from an uncle out of some sort of trust in the past year, he had to pay taxes on it and it would show up on his tax return. That increased his gross income for the year and it could affect his CS. However, if he can demonstrate that it was a one-time gift and wouldn't be repeated in a following year, then his gross income falls back down and CS is calculated off of that.

As for debt, I'm not sure and I really want to also draw the line at providing legal advice here. In general, though, his debt doesn't matter... this is a gross income calculation. However, there are always caveats to that. For example, if he had some sort of catastrophic illness or injury that devastated his family financially, he could ask for a child support modification.

Be careful as well when someone tells you how wealthy they are. I often find many folks live beyond their means and if someone tells you they're carrying $500,000 in educational debt, then I think his statements of wealth may be overblown. Why wouldn't he have simply paid the tuition fees out of pocket rather than borrow?

I hope that helps. What I would advise you to do is to google your state's child support system. You seem very articulate and while these are complex concepts, I think you would easily be able to assimilate the information there.

Thank you for this. I wonder if it's in baby's best interest to ask for a discovery or accept as is. I know child support will need to be modified when he makes tenure as he'll be making exponentially more. I just want my daughter to be taken care of and not miss out on anything as she's not his "real" child.

In all of this he hasn't really met her. When she was 6 days old we got a hotel room and I left to grab something from my car. He held her in that time. I figured I'd give him privacy just to see what he would do/if anything. I was gone maybe 5 minutes and he was patting her back and swaying with her in his arms when I walked back in. He looked terrified but waited a minute to hand her to me. That's the only interaction they have had. (I don't think I confessed to that here out of shame for seeing him after she was born when everyone advised me not to)... I just want him to look at her, not avoid her or avoid facing that. He needs to look her in the eyes. But maybe it won't happen. I just want him to feel guilt and remorse for being a jerk, not so much to me but rather to her. He's been so disrespectful, we both have, but I owned my ****, now it's his turn. And he seems to at least acknowledge he was wrong by how much everything has sped up in the last few days. Baby comes first, I hope he feels the same.

March 31, 2016

I thought he already made tenure.

March 31, 2016

This is about keeping your daughter safe and happy..not squeezing as much out of this guy as you can or guilting him into parenting a child he doesn't want...or coming back to you...right?

April 1, 2016

I thought he already made tenure.

One more year

April 1, 2016

This is about keeping your daughter safe and happy..not squeezing as much out of this guy as you can or guilting him into parenting a child he doesn't want...or coming back to you...right?

No. There's nothing nefarious. I just want her to have a good life. After we close this chapter it's my time to make a life for us and I'll need to get my butt in school, I want to make sure I'm able to do that when all is said and done. in the end I want to do it all for myself so if these men (xMM and stbxh) stop paying, I'll be able to care for the kids on my own because I'm able to support us on my own merits.

April 1, 2016

Mayday, in our state those on state aid do not receive their full child support payment. The state subtracts some of their costs (healthcare, food, utility assistance, etc.) from support payments and then sends any left over to the custodial parent. I don't know if your state handles it similarly, but you might want to ask the lawyer and your case worker, too, just to make sure.

I know you think you know MM, but you really don't. Whatever he told you about his marriage and his finances is highly suspect. It's not uncommon for MM to say "I have XXX" and then the reality turns out to be that the wife actually owned those assets or they don't exist at all. MM is a LOT more likely to lie to you than he is to the court. I think maybe some of the assets he told you about are his wife's and not subject to the court proceedings against him for child support.

Also, I wouldn't read anything into him not making any custody or visitation requests yet. Here, that is not usually done until the DNA test comes back. Lawyers and even therapists advise men not to get attached to the baby until they know for sure it is theirs and judges don't like to give visitation to someone who may not be related to the child, so visitation and custody is usually not requested by lawyers until paternity is established.

April 1, 2016

I agree. I think once paternity is established you may see the request for custody/visitation.

Would a request for custody/ visitation be seen as an admission that the child was his?

Remember that everything g they do us under the advice of their lawyer, so there will be a strategy. You just won't know about it until it happens.

April 1, 2016

No. There's nothing nefarious. I just want her to have a good life. After we close this chapter it's my time to make a life for us and I'll need to get my butt in school, I want to make sure I'm able to do that when all is said and done. in the end I want to do it all for myself so if these men (xMM and stbxh) stop paying, I'll be able to care for the kids on my own because I'm able to support us on my own merits.

I don't think you will have to worry about your xMm not paying. If he is a professor, even at an associate level, he needs his passport. Passports are revoked if someone is $2500 or more in arrears for child support.

Of course you never know what happens, but that is a huge incentive to pay.

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His wife texted me asking to meet- what do I do? [Updated 2016-12-2]

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