Ex WW or ex WH give your insight

[Gigi2015]

Jenkins:

 

Before all this they both claimed to have had a great and loving relationship. The problems started when she was forced to leave her job. Although they had planned for her to retire in a year, she took it very hard. She had been at the top of her field and felt anger and shame at the way it ended. He thought she had auto-sabotaged and was angry at her. They don't need the income but it was a significant amount. He makes a great income and they have a good bit in savings and stocks. She's looked at the accounts and there's no evidence of trouble. Still he was very upset. She became depressed...couldn't sleep, didn't want to go out much, cried a lot.

He couldn't take it. He said he checked out( per his own words) because he didn't know how to deal with her emotions. He started going to business dinners very often, was hyper critical, and constantly angry and curt with her. Then he seemed angry that she was trying to salvage the relationship. She also became angry at him and resentful. I think when people disconnect they are no longer communicating efficiently...and it affects trust. Perceptions are skewed...

[Lady2163]

Jenkins:

 

Before all this they both claimed to have had a great and loving relationship. The problems started when she was forced to leave her job. Although they had planned for her to retire in a year, she took it very hard. She had been at the top of her field and felt anger and shame at the way it ended. He thought she had auto-sabotaged and was angry at her. They don't need the income but it was a significant amount. He makes a great income and they have a good bit in savings and stocks. She's looked at the accounts and there's no evidence of trouble. Still he was very upset. She became depressed...couldn't sleep, didn't want to go out much, cried a lot.

He couldn't take it. He said he checked out( per his own words) because he didn't know how to deal with her emotions. He started going to business dinners very often, was hyper critical, and constantly angry and curt with her. Then he seemed angry that she was trying to salvage the relationship. She also became angry at him and resentful. I think when people disconnect they are no longer communicating efficiently...and it affects trust. Perceptions are skewed...

 

Ahhhh.....the plot thickens.

 

Okay, there's an inconsistency in your post. Either she can't afford a PI or they're doing fine financially.

 

It could be an affair or it could also be an addiction of some kind he's hiding.

 

But, it also takes a special person to handle tragedy. For the wife, losing her job was a tragedy and she settled into a funk. If the husband was used to a partnership or being the center of her attention and she began to focus on her own misery, that can get old quick.

 

My marriage had been rocky and unhappy for some time. Then I lost a parent. I can't even say that we fought anymore. He wasn't interested in how I was feeling and it was six weeks after the funeral when he finally asked, "How are you doing with everything (relating to parent's death)?" Ten weeks after the funeral he left me. The marriage was fine in his eyes, even with all the problems, until I got depressed. Some people just can't cope with being the caretaker.

 

Much of our ego and identity can be because of a job. Losing it suddenly can be a terrible blow. If your a higher up who has regularly been told how great you are and if you see daily/weekly results showing change and progress that can be tough to cope with not being special and overall awesome.

 

And it's all crap. Compared to losing a loved one to death, a child in jeopardy or serious illness, it's crap.

 

These two people aren't healthy together. She's going through her stuff and when he gets mad, he leaves the house overnight. That can push some serious abandonment buttons. My ex-husband thought he was just leaving the house overnight. He came back the next day to tell me how I was going to change and be the perfect wife or he wasn't coming back. He was pretty much speechless when I told him, "Well, first of all, you're not welcome back. You left me 10 weeks after my parent died. What are you going to do with the next tragedy?"

 

I do think she's a bit of a control freak, but I also think he's hiding something.

[Gigi2015]

Ahhhh.....the plot thickens.

 

Okay, there's an inconsistency in your post. Either she can't afford a PI or they're doing fine financially.

 

It could be an affair or it could also be an addiction of some kind he's hiding.

 

But, it also takes a special person to handle tragedy. For the wife, losing her job was a tragedy and she settled into a funk. If the husband was used to a partnership or being the center of her attention and she began to focus on her own misery, that can get old quick.

 

My marriage had been rocky and unhappy for some time. Then I lost a parent. I can't even say that we fought anymore. He wasn't interested in how I was feeling and it was six weeks after the funeral when he finally asked, "How are you doing with everything (relating to parent's death)?" Ten weeks after the funeral he left me. The marriage was fine in his eyes, even with all the problems, until I got depressed. Some people just can't cope with being the caretaker.

 

Much of our ego and identity can be because of a job. Losing it suddenly can be a terrible blow. If your a higher up who has regularly been told how great you are and if you see daily/weekly results showing change and progress that can be tough to cope with not being special and overall awesome.

 

And it's all crap. Compared to losing a loved one to death, a child in jeopardy or serious illness, it's crap.

 

These two people aren't healthy together. She's going through her stuff and when he gets mad, he leaves the house overnight. That can push some serious abandonment buttons. My ex-husband thought he was just leaving the house overnight. He came back the next day to tell me how I was going to change and be the perfect wife or he wasn't coming back. He was pretty much speechless when I told him, "Well, first of all, you're not welcome back. You left me 10 weeks after my parent died. What are you going to do with the next tragedy?"

 

I do think she's a bit of a control freak, but I also think he's hiding something.

 

 

But the accounts are joined so he might notice $7,000-10,000 missing. You are right! Some people can't handle care taking. Which brings the next question about: So if she experiences any tragedy or perceived tragedy does she have to weather it on her own? That doesn't sound good....also--does that mean he he's a fair weather friend? It would SUCK to find that out after 20 years of sacrifices and life together. Thing is--her career represented her identity to a degree and her independence. This has been the only time when she's ever experienced depression. Just curious--Why do you think she's a bit of a control freak? She actually walked around on eggshells the first year(the span of their troubles lasted 2 years)...No control freak walks on eggshells for a solid year.

[road]

My first reaction?

 

He goes to hotels after arguments and has talked about getting his own apartment? Sounds like this relationship has been on the rocks for some time. Is it worth trying to save if he's not cheating?

 

The go phone and all of that sounds very suspicious. But I also can't imagine how hurt I would be if my husband said he was considering moving out!

 

As a "WW" I don't seem to follow the stereotypes or norms. When I was confronted I came clean and expressed sorrow for the hurt I caused.

 

 

You behavior on D day not common in not that most WW's did not do that though also not that rare.

[Lady2163]

But the accounts are joined so he might notice $7,000-10,000 missing. You are right! Some people can't handle care taking. Which brings the next question about: So if she experiences any tragedy or perceived tragedy does she have to weather it on her own? That doesn't sound good....also--does that mean he he's a fair weather friend? It would SUCK to find that out after 20 years of sacrifices and life together. Thing is--her career represented her identity to a degree and her independence. This has been the only time when she's ever experienced depression. Just curious--Why do you think she's a bit of a control freak? She actually walked around on eggshells the first year(the span of their troubles lasted 2 years)...No control freak walks on eggshells for a solid year.

 

I realize I'm getting these things second hand and am making interpretations based on the written and probably incomplete scenario due to Internet limitations.

 

I don't know where you live, but a consult with a PI is not going to cost that much. In my opinion only, most couples have an amount that can be used without raising eyebrows. It does depend on socio economic status. Plus, there are a bunch of different scenarios she could make up. Car repair, friend needed loan, house repair, furniture purchase, shopping spree, prescription sunglasses purchase. There are ways. She could borrow the money from a friend of through the bank.

 

The request to hear what he wanted to say to God about their marriage aloud sends off an alarm for me. If they both have an open and honest relationship with God, it stands to reason when they talk to God they open themselves completely, honestly and truly. I can think of no one in my life I'd want to hear unfiltered comments from and I am loved deeply by several. Even at my happiest in my marriage, I wouldn't want my (now ex) husband to hear what I thought he needed help on in the marriage.

 

I'm wondering if she is charmingly persuasive. Some people persuade by using logic or bullying. People who are charmingly persuasive make it tough to realize you've been manipulated or maneuvered into doing something you REALLY didn't want to do. I was friends with the kindest, sweetest woman for 23 years. But, time and again her ability to charm, persuade and compromise put me in situations I didn't want to be in and I spent money on trips going to places I didn't really want to go. Once she stopped being able to get me to do things her way 99% of the time she slinked away. I'm sure her new friends think she is just the greatest, because while you're in the thick of it you don't see it.

 

She's spent a lot of time and energy investigating this guy. I know she's suspicious, but I wonder how many times a day or week she checks his location. How many times a day do happy couples do that?

 

I don't know if he's fair weather or not. In 20 years they've had to have had some emergencies and crises.

 

And if I haven't made it clear. His behavior isn't stellar.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Lady2163

[soleilesquire]

If I were you, I would just ask your husband straight out, and if you still have these gut feelings, it would be worth it to go ahead and get the PI. If he notices the money missing, just be honest and say, "You're hiding things from me. You won't tell me what they are. So I decided to find out."

[Gigi2015]

If I were you, I would just ask your husband straight out, and if you still have these gut feelings, it would be worth it to go ahead and get the PI. If he notices the money missing, just be honest and say, "You're hiding things from me. You won't tell me what they are. So I decided to find out."

 

 

If she gives him a heads up there no point in hiring a PI. He's not going to not notice that kind of money missing. He actually has an alert system on accounts. She did ask and he said he hadn't cheated....but funny thing is how he deleted the two most damning entries on the log...the ones that pointed directly to a personal account. The other entries he left intact. Why do you think he did that? If you have nothing to cover up then you don't destroy evidence! He was covering it up. Luckily she had taken a photo.

[soleilesquire]

In that case I would recommend that she quietly investigate and try installing some sort of spyware on his devices, if she can. If the devices were bought with joint accounts then they are marital assets and there shouldn't be a problem doing that.

 

There are enough troubling things in my opinion that if it were me, I wouldn't be able to let the nagging feeling go. I'd need to find some answers myself.

[Gigi2015]

In that case I would recommend that she quietly investigate and try installing some sort of spyware on his devices, if she can. If the devices were bought with joint accounts then they are marital assets and there shouldn't be a problem doing that.

 

There are enough troubling things in my opinion that if it were me, I wouldn't be able to let the nagging feeling go. I'd need to find some answers myself.

 

 

I agree. I think she's afraid of what she'll find or afraid to place devices and being found out....I say it's time though...

[Lois_Griffin]

I say put a covert tracker on his vehicle...she's afraid to do it. I say put a VAR at least ....I'm not a BS but sometimes snooping can bring clarity. I know if she had the cash she'd hire a P.I. Maybe doing it herself feels dirty? IDK...

I think she'd rather suspect than know. She's 'afraid' to find a smoking gun piece of evidence by placing a VAR in his car or a GPS unit under his wheel well. I think for her, ignorance is bliss and she'd rather live in fear than reality because she's not forced to do anything about her life if she doesn't really know.

 

I call complete bullsh*t on his staying at hotels when they argue. I have the feeling he's purposely staging those arguments so he can self-righteously storm out of the house in 'anger' - because he sure can't ask his wife's permission to have a sleepover with the OW, now can he? So he purposely starts a conversation that he knows will lead to discord thus providing him with a reason to storm out of the house for one of his infamous hotel stays.

 

Geez, that's one of the oldest tricks in the book cheaters use to get out of the house at night.

 

I think your friend is incredibly naive asking him to 'pray' for their marriage. That's kind of like asking the fox to guard the chicken house.

[Liam1]

I agree. I think she's afraid of what she'll find or afraid to place devices and being found out....I say it's time though...

 

I agree, she likely is afraid of the truth.

 

Still, she needs to get valid facts, rather than guessing in order to protect herself.

 

If she sets things up properly, she may only need the PI for a half days or nights work.

 

If the PI is in the area they charge anywhere between 600 to 1000 dollars for a day rate.

 

Can she put this much on her personal credit card?

 

She can pick one of the times he storms out of the house or when he claims to be working late or out with the boys. Those are the times he is most likely to meet with the OW.

[Lois_Griffin]

If she gives him a heads up there no point in hiring a PI. He's not going to not notice that kind of money missing. He actually has an alert system on accounts. She did ask and he said he hadn't cheated....but funny thing is how he deleted the two most damning entries on the log...the ones that pointed directly to a personal account. The other entries he left intact. Why do you think he did that? If you have nothing to cover up then you don't destroy evidence! He was covering it up. Luckily she had taken a photo.

She's already GIVEN him a heads up - and he deleted the evidence as soon as he could.

 

This guy is a snake.

 

She doesn't need a PI. She can find all she needs if she'd actually get past her fear of what she knows she's going to find.

[Gigi2015]

I agree, she likely is afraid of the truth.

 

Still, she needs to get valid facts, rather than guessing in order to protect herself.

 

If she sets things up properly, she may only need the PI for a half days or nights work.

 

If the PI is in the area they charge anywhere between 600 to 1000 dollars for a day rate.

 

Can she put this much on her personal credit card?

 

She can pick one of the times he storms out of the house or when he claims to be working late or out with the boys. Those are the times he is most likely to meet with the OW.

 

I think she's terrified! And she told him if he storms out again it's over. I think she means it! She actually saw a divorce attorney last time (2 weeks ago) I think she's looking at it as if he's about to pull the trigger a PI doesn't matter...a good divorce attorney is better. But yes--she can use a credit card thats only in her name. She's afraid it's all coming to a head and she'll need the credit for a divorce lawyer.

[Gigi2015]

She's already GIVEN him a heads up - and he deleted the evidence as soon as he could.

 

This guy is a snake.

 

She doesn't need a PI. She can find all she needs if she'd actually get past her fear of what she knows she's going to find.

 

Unfortunately yes....but I don't think this would make any difference in divorce court....the only reason she wanted to know is because she wants a real relationship. She lives in a no fault state. I seriously don't think she cares about more money in the divorce settlement. She only cares about feeling safe again and not feeling like an idiot crying at home while he's shagging his OW.

[soleilesquire]

The truth can be scary. But there is power in the truth and in information.

 

Sometimes we fear information/truth because we feel that once we have it, we must act on it. But even with the truth we can take our time. I have lots of truths and information that I have never (yet) acted on. I may never act on them. But knowing them gives me power, even if it's only power within myself.

 

You are a very good friend to her to encourage her in this.

[Gigi2015]

The truth can be scary. But there is power in the truth and in information.

 

Sometimes we fear information/truth because we feel that once we have it, we must act on it. But even with the truth we can take our time. I have lots of truths and information that I have never (yet) acted on. I may never act on them. But knowing them gives me power, even if it's only power within myself.

 

You are a very good friend to her to encourage her in this.

 

I think she's afraid to find out he was at a place where he was willing to risk losing her....she feels that that may mean she was never what she thought she meant to him....they've been together for 20+ years. She's built her life around him. She's passed up promotions, worked overtime while he was advancing career, left jobs where she was happy to follow him...she's afraid it's all been a sham and she's been an idiot!

[Mrs. John Adams]

The sad part of this is...whether she finds out for sure he cheated or not...it doesn't change that fact that it really may have happened.

 

One thing about affairs...you cannot undo them...you cannot take away the devastation they cause. God knows....If that were possible...I would have done it a long time ago.

 

So even if she remains in the dark...the damage has been done. She has already experienced the doubts and fears.

 

I don't know if this man has cheated...everything tends to point to the fact that he has.....but the relationship is in turmoil regardless.

 

SO honestly...she needs to pursue the possibilities of what she will do if the marriage ends.

 

Therapy, lawyers, expenses, all of those things have to be considered.

 

I hope she does what is best for her.....

[Lady2163]

The sad part of this is...whether she finds out for sure he cheated or not...it doesn't change that fact that it really may have happened.

 

One thing about affairs...you cannot undo them...you cannot take away the devastation they cause. God knows....If that were possible...I would have done it a long time ago.

 

So even if she remains in the dark...the damage has been done. She has already experienced the doubts and fears.

 

I don't know if this man has cheated...everything tends to point to the fact that he has.....but the relationship is in turmoil regardless.

 

SO honestly...she needs to pursue the possibilities of what she will do if the marriage ends.

 

Therapy, lawyers, expenses, all of those things have to be considered.

 

I hope she does what is best for her.....

 

Gigi - I did respond to your questions, but it may have been buried as the last post on page 2.

 

I'm not convinced he is cheating. They must live in a large enough city that she can't find him if he goes to a hotel. If the fights occurred out of the blue or just escalated suddenly, it is making a leap that the OW would drop everything at the last minute to spend the night with him. If he started the fights, then the chances are higher, but even then...

 

Gambling, porn, drinking, drugs are all addictions that can change moods. You'd be surprised at the people who are closet alcoholics. That craving and urge can cause the mildest person to turn into a monster.

[Gigi2015]

Gigi - I did respond to your questions, but it may have been buried as the last post on page 2.

 

I'm not convinced he is cheating. They must live in a large enough city that she can't find him if he goes to a hotel. If the fights occurred out of the blue or just escalated suddenly, it is making a leap that the OW would drop everything at the last minute to spend the night with him. If he started the fights, then the chances are higher, but even then...

 

Gambling, porn, drinking, drugs are all addictions that can change moods. You'd be surprised at the people who are closet alcoholics. That craving and urge can cause the mildest person to turn into a monster.

 

It is a big enough city. And I for one think if he hadn't deleted the entries it could've been dismissed. But--him deleting evidence is a dead giveaway ...you don't try to bury the truth, only the lies!

[Lady2163]

It is a big enough city. And I for one think if he hadn't deleted the entries it could've been dismissed. But--him deleting evidence is a dead giveaway ...you don't try to bury the truth, only the lies!

 

Gambling, drugs, phone sex and strippers are all activities that could benefit from a burner phone. Still illicit behavior, but not cheating in the true physical sense.

[Gigi2015]

Gambling, drugs, phone sex and strippers are all activities that could benefit from a burner phone. Still illicit behavior, but not cheating in the true physical sense.

 

I don't think drugs or gambling...bank records would show it....the others hadn't even occurred to me...

[Gigi2015]

The sad part of this is...whether she finds out for sure he cheated or not...it doesn't change that fact that it really may have happened.

 

One thing about affairs...you cannot undo them...you cannot take away the devastation they cause. God knows....If that were possible...I would have done it a long time ago.

 

So even if she remains in the dark...the damage has been done. She has already experienced the doubts and fears.

 

I don't know if this man has cheated...everything tends to point to the fact that he has.....but the relationship is in turmoil regardless.

 

SO honestly...she needs to pursue the possibilities of what she will do if the marriage ends.

 

Therapy, lawyers, expenses, all of those things have to be considered.

 

I hope she does what is best for her.....

 

You're absolutely right. Simply because an affair hasn't been exposed doesn't mean the damage hasn't been done. She saw a lawyer for the first time. She intuitively feels the end is at hand. She doesn't want it to be so but she feels it's time to protect herself. She's no longer willing to put up with him going to hotels for the night.