Ex WW or ex WH give your insight

[Gigi2015]

The following scenario is happening to someone close to me. I'm looking for insight from ex WW and ex WH. Thanks in advance for your insight.

 

For about two years there have been a string of "coincidences" that make the H suspected of cheating. Here's a short list but I'll add more if necessary for clarification. The W is being accused of not trusting and being insecure. I'd like to know if this appears as gaslighting to you.

 

1--W found gophone entries on his kindle. Not just random general info pages. One page led to another. The pages started with Shopping menu( generic page) to activate my device page and lastly my "personal account page"(literally the name of the page). When confronted the H said she was ascribing a sinister meaning to a random search. Then he deleted 2 of the searches: The activate my device and the my personal info pages specifically. Then started taking the device to work.

 

2. She asked him to pray over their marriage( both Christian) and he said, " Ok...but in silence." She said she'd like to hear it aloud. He became very defensive and accused her of trying to control him and putting him "on the spot."

 

3. He has left for a night at a hotel on numerous occasions...over petty arguments. He shuts-off his phone. The last time he said he was going to look for apartments. He says things have been terrible for too long because she doesn't trust him. She found entries on Feb 12th( notes) where he looked into 3 bedroom homes....not apartments...He hates yard work.

 

4. Last thing that made an alarm go off: They are sitting at a restaurant. An OLD crippled man approaches and says,". So--- have you told her yet?". He immediately turned beet red. He became hostile in manner and almost threatening in tone. He asked the old man". Have I told her WHAT exactly?. The old man said..," How beautiful she looks today." Later the wife asked why he had been so rude to the old man. He said he felt like he was being set up. He replied he was sick and tired of being in weird situations that he couldn't explain.

 

So--what's your take on this?

[Gigi2015]

Just a few more things:

 

He says nobody has ever ridden in his car. They always use her car to go out( it's nicer). She has hat a gut feeling and gone on digging mode because she can't afford a P.I. She found coffee stirrers in the side pocket of the passenger seat door. She asked and he said he had thrown them there....he'd have to be a hell of a shot! Why not put them on his side right?

 

His phone location show him absent( phone off) on numerous afternoons. IDK-- maybe phone died.

 

He's had afternoon business meetings on two occasions were he had to go to the mall prior to get a new shirt. He is now very concerned about his dress shirts being more form fitting to his body.

 

On one occasion he emptied everything out of his gym bag except his boxer shorts. The W was putting his clothes away and decided to check the gym bag for dirty clothes. She only found a pair of boxers with a spot on top that looked like it had been washed until threadbare. She smelled them and it was the typical office liquid soap smell....why would you wash boxer shorts at work and why was he trying to hide them?

[Liam1]

The following scenario is happening to someone close to me. I'm looking for insight from ex WW and ex WH. Thanks in advance for your insight.

 

For about two years there have been a string of "coincidences" that make the H suspected of cheating. Here's a short list but I'll add more if necessary for clarification. The W is being accused of not trusting and being insecure. I'd like to know if this appears as gaslighting to you.

 

1--W found gophone entries on his kindle. Not just random general info pages. One page led to another. The pages started with Shopping menu( generic page) to activate my device page and lastly my "personal account page"(literally the name of the page). When confronted the H said she was ascribing a sinister meaning to a random search. Then he deleted 2 of the searches: The activate my device and the my personal info pages specifically. Then started taking the device to work.

 

2. She asked him to pray over their marriage( both Christian) and he said, " Ok...but in silence." She said she'd like to hear it aloud. He became very defensive and accused her of trying to control him and putting him "on the spot."

 

3. He has left for a night at a hotel on numerous occasions...over petty arguments. He shuts-off his phone. The last time he said he was going to look for apartments. He says things have been terrible for too long because she doesn't trust him. She found entries on Feb 12th( notes) where he looked into 3 bedroom homes....not apartments...He hates yard work.

 

4. Last thing that made an alarm go off: They are sitting at a restaurant. An OLD crippled man approaches and says,". So--- have you told her yet?". He immediately turned beet red. He became hostile in manner and almost threatening in tone. He asked the old man". Have I told her WHAT exactly?. The old man said..," How beautiful she looks today." Later the wife asked why he had been so rude to the old man. He said he felt like he was being set up. He replied he was sick and tired of being in weird situations that he couldn't explain.

 

So--what's your take on this?

 

 

Gigi:

 

IMO, this woman's intuition is likely on target.

 

During my affair, I purposely picked fights with my wife in order to be able to storm out of the house the call the OW or to sometimes meet.

 

The burn phone is a major clue.

 

The old man is suspicious, too. My Affair partner was blonde my wife is a beautiful brunette. I had changed jobs and my wife came to meet me for work. Some of the assistants who had seen me sitting with the OW at a nearby coffee shop has assumed she was my wife.

 

So, when my wife came to the office they slyly told her, "oh, I though you would be a blonde" I think they were trying to clue her in to my meeting with a blonde.

 

However when my wife asked them what they meant, they smiled and said oh no reason, just a thought.

 

His defensive posture and rewriting the marital history are also all standard behaviors of people in affairs.

 

Hopefully, he will wake up and start working on his marriage as I did.

[Gigi2015]

Gigi:

 

IMO, this woman's intuition is likely on target.

 

During my affair, I purposely picked fights with my wife in order to be able to storm out of the house the call the OW or to sometimes meet.

 

The burn phone is a major clue.

 

The old man is suspicious, too. My Affair partner was blonde my wife is a beautiful brunette. I had changed jobs and my wife came to meet me for work. Some of the assistants who had seen me sitting with the OW at a nearby coffee shop has assumed she was my wife.

 

So, when my wife came to the office they slyly told her, "oh, I though you would be a blonde" I think they were trying to clue her in to my meeting with a blonde.

 

However when my wife asked them what they meant, they smiled and said oh no reason, just a thought.

 

His defensive posture and rewriting the marital history are also all standard behaviors of people in affairs.

 

Hopefully, he will wake up and start working on his marriage as I did.

 

What's your take on the restaurant scene?

[Gigi2015]

Gigi:

 

IMO, this woman's intuition is likely on target.

 

During my affair, I purposely picked fights with my wife in order to be able to storm out of the house the call the OW or to sometimes meet.

 

The burn phone is a major clue.

 

The old man is suspicious, too. My Affair partner was blonde my wife is a beautiful brunette. I had changed jobs and my wife came to meet me for work. Some of the assistants who had seen me sitting with the OW at a nearby coffee shop has assumed she was my wife.

 

So, when my wife came to the office they slyly told her, "oh, I though you would be a blonde" I think they were trying to clue her in to my meeting with a blonde.

 

However when my wife asked them what they meant, they smiled and said oh no reason, just a thought.

 

His defensive posture and rewriting the marital history are also all standard behaviors of people in affairs.

 

Hopefully, he will wake up and start working on his marriage as I did.[/quote

 

Did you ever get defensive when your BS wanted to work on the relationship? Did it tick you off?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am a FWW...I had a very short affair and I confessed.....just so you know my mindset.

 

I can understand being curious about these incidents....enough that I would ask my husband to explain them. They could indeed all be innocent.....and they could also all be pointing to an inappropriate relationship.

 

the coffee stirrers could have fallen off of the seat into the car door space....I have actually done that. I set the bag on to the passenger seat and it fell over and the straw fell into the seat pocket.

 

He may have washed his hands at the gym wearing only his boxers and the soap squirted onto his shorts. I have certainly squirted myself with soap.

 

If an old man had walked up to my husband and asked him have you told her yet....I can see his reaction being startled , frustrated, and embarrassed...simply because it is a stranger asking a question that is none of his business. The old man step over a line of comfort. It doesn't necessarily point to cheating.

 

I could go through your entire list and probably explain each and every incident..to prove he is guilty and to prove he is innocent.

 

I am an optimist....i also tend to believe folks easily....and give them the benefit of the doubt. I am also a straight shooter...so if i have a question...I ask it. If i was bothered by something...I would ask...and I would watch the reaction as well as listen to the answer. Most people don't lie easily.....some do....but i know my husband well enough ...that i think i would know if he is lying.

 

Do I think there are enough points here to be concerned? yes

 

and i would ask him to explain every detail. If his answers are not satisfactory....I would tell him I think he is lying....and I would tell him my fears and concerns. I would also make it very clear where my line is....

[Gigi2015]

I am a FWW...I had a very short affair and I confessed.....just so you know my mindset.

 

I can understand being curious about these incidents....enough that I would ask my husband to explain them. They could indeed all be innocent.....and they could also all be pointing to an inappropriate relationship.

 

the coffee stirrers could have fallen off of the seat into the car door space....I have actually done that. I set the bag on to the passenger seat and it fell over and the straw fell into the seat pocket.

 

He may have washed his hands at the gym wearing only his boxers and the soap squirted onto his shorts. I have certainly squirted myself with soap.

 

If an old man had walked up to my husband and asked him have you told her yet....I can see his reaction being startled , frustrated, and embarrassed...simply because it is a stranger asking a question that is none of his business. The old man step over a line of comfort. It doesn't necessarily point to cheating.

 

I could go through your entire list and probably explain each and every incident..to prove he is guilty and to prove he is innocent.

 

I am an optimist....i also tend to believe folks easily....and give them the benefit of the doubt. I am also a straight shooter...so if i have a question...I ask it. If i was bothered by something...I would ask...and I would watch the reaction as well as listen to the answer. Most people don't lie easily.....some do....but i know my husband well enough ...that i think i would know if he is lying.

 

Do I think there are enough points here to be concerned? yes

 

and i would ask him to explain every detail. If his answers are not satisfactory....I would tell him I think he is lying....and I would tell him my fears and concerns. I would also make it very clear where my line is....

 

What about the go phone entries? Also--he seemed paranoid to me with the old man....it wasn't an intrusive question....he could've just asked, " what do you mean." To me he seemed rage full and maybe even embarrassed. Also he opened a points reward hotel account that the W discovered by accident....my point is yes stuff happens but---when a pattern of things that need explanation occur maybe there's more to it. I doubt if you were to dissect my life there would be anything that would require constant explanation....pretty straight forward.

[Liam1]

Did you ever get defensive when your BS wanted to work on the relationship? Did it tick you off?

Yes, it did. But only very early on when I was thinking with my little head rather than my large head.

 

I think a counselor would have helped derail my affair had my wife insisted on a few sessions.

 

Without the counselor, it's too easy to storm out of the house, while arguing.

 

I am also a Former cheating spouse who confessed after a very short affair.

 

All his actions could be innocent. Still, the red flag to me is the continual defensiveness he displays

[Gigi2015]

Yes, it did. But only very early on when I was thinking with my little head rather than my large head.

 

I think a counselor would have helped derail my affair had my wife insisted on a few sessions.

 

Without the counselor, it's too easy to storm out of the house, while arguing.

 

I am also a Former cheating spouse who confessed after a very short affair.

 

All his actions could be innocent. Still, the red flag to me is the continual defensiveness he displays

 

 

I think the thing that bothered me and the RED flag indicator was the track dusting. He only erased the 2 entries that indicated it was a personal account...the activate my device page and the my personal info page....he left the others on record....and he started taking the device to work. Also--the shutting his phone off while on a sabbatical.

[minimariah]

Gigi, i'll give you the fBS perspective -- it all comes down to a feeling. meaning - all these examples could mean nothing. but we see what we want to see and if you're full of doubts and suspicions... you will see cheating in EVERYTHING. when you trust someone and when you're deeply convinced that things between the two of you are fantastic - the most obvious signs will flow under your radar.

 

so if the W feels something changed and he isn't dedicated to the marriage - he's probably cheating. that feeling is what makes the only difference, really.

 

i personally behave super suspicious and did everything you named and i didn't cheat. it looked like it, for sure - but i didn't cheat. so these examples don't prove anything on their own.

[ShatteredLady]

An even bigger indicator of infidelity is her intuition. I was completely blindsided by my H BUT I knew something was wrong!

 

I was recovering from major surgery, heavily medicated & very depressed but I still 'knew' things were not right. With zero evidence I still asked. I've NEVER done that in 26 years!!

[Gigi2015]

Gigi, i'll give you the fBS perspective -- it all comes down to a feeling. meaning - all these examples could mean nothing. but we see what we want to see and if you're full of doubts and suspicions... you will see cheating in EVERYTHING. when you trust someone and when you're deeply convinced that things between the two of you are fantastic - the most obvious signs will flow under your radar.

 

so if the W feels something changed and he isn't dedicated to the marriage - he's probably cheating. that feeling is what makes the only difference, really.

 

i personally behave super suspicious and did everything you named and i didn't cheat. it looked like it, for sure - but i didn't cheat. so these examples don't prove anything on their own.

 

 

The thing is this person has not been the supcious kind. She went to a gophone store that sells those phones and plans and they told her there's NO WAY to navigate into those pages without a personal account. His deleting very SPECIFIC entries and not others points at an attempt to deceit.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I explained what i thought about the encounter with the old man.

 

See..I am not invested in this relationship...so I can stand back and look at it from a different perspective than someone who is involved.

 

To me...your mind is already made up...you think he is cheating....and you want everyone here to agree with you to make you feel more secure in that decision.

 

I agree...he is probably guilty....but if you have an open mind and are not invested...you can also see that maybe there are indeed other answers.

 

If your gut feeling is...he is guilty...then set out to prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt and act accordingly.

 

If he is cheating....what then? Can you see yourself reconciling? Or will you divorce.

 

Get a plan in place for either answer.

[Gigi2015]

Yes...we often have gut feelings due to timing and observations....still it's interesting how others might view this. Particularly when prompted by people we love. And they feel their gut is screaming....I do feel there's something here. I would suggest a P.I. But its not financially feasible. So--trying to explore other avenues.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Gigi2015

[minimariah]

The thing is this person has not been the supcious kind. She went to a gophone store that sells those phones and plans and they told her there's NO WAY to navigate into those pages without a personal account. His deleting very SPECIFIC entries and not others points at an attempt to deceit.

 

i will be honest - if that was me, i'd be concvinced he's having an affair; it certainly looks that way! & it seems like this wife has a gut feeling something is wrong... but sometimes, it takes time for that gut feeling to sink in. takes time to accept it.

[Gigi2015]

i will be honest - if that was me, i'd be concvinced he's having an affair; it certainly looks that way! & it seems like this wife has a gut feeling something is wrong... but sometimes, it takes time for that gut feeling to sink in. takes time to accept it.

 

I agree...I know the vast inconsistencies to the story....there are coincidences in life but not on an ongoing and even predictable way! But--what is a person to do if they can afford a P.I. Things calm down and then heat up. It blows hot and cold.

[Liam1]

I agree...I know the vast inconsistencies to the story....there are coincidences in life but not on an ongoing and even predictable way! But--what is a person to do if they can afford a P.I. Things calm down and then heat up. It blows hot and cold.

 

If she and you SUSPECT he is cheating, he likely is.

 

My wife was extremely trusting, but she said in retrospect she felt something was different.

 

She years later said she did suspect cheating but with the help of the counselor she realized she was in denial. She did not push the issue because she desperately wanted to believe I was NOT cheating.

 

Can you and she act as your own PI.

 

Use a car he does not recognize and follow him.

 

A lot of men cheat during lunch at work and just before they come home, claiming they are working late.

 

If he claims he's going out with the boys, he may instead be meeting his affair partner.

 

Follow him in a car he does not recognize.

 

Do you have friend who can drive?

 

Where a hat and glassed to disguise your face.

 

His defensive behavior and hiding phones and erasing messages are all suspicious and right out of the cheater's handbook.

 

Also, she can tap a voice activated recorder under the passenger seat or in the back seat of their car. Check the mileage. Check to see if the passenger seat is moved to a position the wife does not use.

 

My affair partner was very tall, and she always pushed the seat back. After I confessed I also found her hair wound around the head rest.

[Midwestmissy]

The one time in 25 yrs I had that instinct kick in and scream that he was cheating it was bang on correct. His reaction to my questions was ridiculous and enraged. His excuses and justifications made me physically ill, I'd vomit,and his reaction to that was to call me a drama queen who MADE myself throw up to get attention. It was totally crazy, and I'd never seen him behave so out of character. I'd actually started the vomiting about 3 wks before the a went physical. My body and heart were screaming at me. I chose to believe him.

 

There's a great book called the gift of fear - those instincts and senses we get are there for our survival and have been forever. We should never ignore them.

[Gigi2015]

The one time in 25 yrs I had that instinct kick in and scream that he was cheating it was bang on correct. His reaction to my questions was ridiculous and enraged. His excuses and justifications made me physically ill, I'd vomit,and his reaction to that was to call me a drama queen who MADE myself throw up to get attention. It was totally crazy, and I'd never seen him behave so out of character. I'd actually started the vomiting about 3 wks before the a went physical. My body and heart were screaming at me. I chose to believe him.

 

There's a great book called the gift of fear - those instincts and senses we get are there for our survival and have been forever. We should never ignore them.

 

 

Interesting that you became sick with worry. Interesting that he called you an attention grabber for being sick. I'm so sorry that you ever had to live through that. I've read that people can get sick due to stress and worry. My SIL developed panic attacks while my brother was gaslighting her!! She is NOT a drama queen or an attention seeking person. I think it's so weird that infidelity is rampant in middle age. Women lagging only 5% behind males(in the U.S. Anyway).

[ShatteredLady]

I'm so sorry. Having a terrifying, breathless panic attack, shaking uncontrollably & vomiting only to be looked down on & mocked by the one person who should be there to protect, comfort & keep you safe is one of the very worst experiences of my life.

 

Just reading your words I'm sobbing. I can see that contemptuous look on his face. That same soft, gentle face I've looked on for my whole life. ugh!

 

I'm haunted.

 

The things cheats do in 'self defense' are truly horrific. The hardest things to ever recover from.

[RecentChange]

My first reaction?

 

He goes to hotels after arguments and has talked about getting his own apartment? Sounds like this relationship has been on the rocks for some time. Is it worth trying to save if he's not cheating?

 

The go phone and all of that sounds very suspicious. But I also can't imagine how hurt I would be if my husband said he was considering moving out!

 

As a "WW" I don't seem to follow the stereotypes or norms. When I was confronted I came clean and expressed sorrow for the hurt I caused.

[Gigi2015]

My first reaction?

 

He goes to hotels after arguments and has talked about getting his own apartment? Sounds like this relationship has been on the rocks for some time. Is it worth trying to save if he's not cheating?

 

The go phone and all of that sounds very suspicious. But I also can't imagine how hurt I would be if my husband said he was considering moving out!

 

As a "WW" I don't seem to follow the stereotypes or norms. When I was confronted I came clean and expressed sorrow for the hurt I caused.

 

Yes...and most were do to her ttrying to have an honest discussion/ bridge the gap about how to salvage the relationship....he'd get angry at her trying! He's always been conflict-avoidant...she'd try to get close when she felt distanced...

[Gigi2015]

If she and you SUSPECT he is cheating, he likely is.

 

My wife was extremely trusting, but she said in retrospect she felt something was different.

 

She years later said she did suspect cheating but with the help of the counselor she realized she was in denial. She did not push the issue because she desperately wanted to believe I was NOT cheating.

 

Can you and she act as your own PI.

 

Use a car he does not recognize and follow him.

 

A lot of men cheat during lunch at work and just before they come home, claiming they are working late.

 

If he claims he's going out with the boys, he may instead be meeting his affair partner.

 

Follow him in a car he does not recognize.

 

Do you have friend who can drive?

 

Where a hat and glassed to disguise your face.

 

His defensive behavior and hiding phones and erasing messages are all suspicious and right out of the cheater's handbook.

 

Also, she can tap a voice activated recorder under the passenger seat or in the back seat of their car. Check the mileage. Check to see if the passenger seat is moved to a position the wife does not use.

 

My affair partner was very tall, and she always pushed the seat back. After I confessed I also found her hair wound around the head rest.

 

I say put a covert tracker on his vehicle...she's afraid to do it. I say put a VAR at least ....I'm not a BS but sometimes snooping can bring clarity. I know if she had the cash she'd hire a P.I. Maybe doing it herself feels dirty? IDK...

[Cloudcuckoo]

I'm so sorry. Having a terrifying, breathless panic attack, shaking uncontrollably & vomiting only to be looked down on & mocked by the one person who should be there to protect, comfort & keep you safe is one of the very worst experiences of my life.

 

Just reading your words I'm sobbing. I can see that contemptuous look on his face. That same soft, gentle face I've looked on for my whole life. ugh!

 

I'm haunted.

 

The things cheats do in 'self defense' are truly horrific. The hardest things to ever recover from.

 

Agreed.

 

Vile. Shocking to be the recipient of such cold and calculated neglect and contempt.

 

I experienced a major breakdown, and had to drive myself to the GP when my then 14 year old daughter asked why Mummy was shaking, while he looked on with no concern whatsoever.

 

OP, as Several have mentioned, instinctive assumptions are a method of keeping us safe. If it feels wrong, it probably is!

[jenkins95]

Hi Gigi, hope you are well today. Former WH here

 

My first impression is that he is obviously not happy and has some sort of problem that he is keeping very close to himself. An affair is one very plausible possibility, but the evidence is not incontrovertible. There could be a number of other possibilities - maybe he has got himself into a bad debt (gambling, perhaps?), maybe he has done something bad at work and is now being threatened with the sack/legal action? maybe he has an illness that he is denial about? etc, etc...

 

There is clearly something wrong, but it is not definitely an affair IMO, although that is probably the most likely cause. Perhaps a tracking device on his car and maybe a voice recorder would be worth trying out. Whatever his issue, the very fact that he's keeping it to himself is adding to the distant, defensive, disconnected, cold manner with which he is currently treating his wife. It is weighing very heavily on him and he has no one to open up to.

 

How was their marriage in general up to this point? Was it OK? Have they been on holiday together recently? Taking the optimistic view that this is not an affair, perhaps they just need some quality time together away from the stresses and issues of work, etc. Maybe this would give him an opportunity to open up and tell her what's on his mind.

Edited February 24, 2016 by jenkins95