He lied about cybersex and happy ending at AMP. Do I stay for the kids?

[bluebird123]

I feel numb. Been reading the forums for awhile, and those shared experiences have been helpful insight for me. Am posting b/c I feel so torn. Thank you in advance for any of your thoughts.

 

I've been married 8 years, 2 young kids. He's a great dad, friend, partner. We are a good team and I thought happy overall. Five years ago, I discovered he was having paid webcam cybersex with numerous women. Scheduling real-time encounters where they would stream live video to each other and have sexual encounters to get off. (How I discovered it was traumatic and a whole other story. It was moving day of our first house together. I was pushing furniture etc all day while juggling our toddler. He said "sorry honey i have to work late". I surprise him at work and see his computer. He had scheduled 3 different encounters for the early afternoon. And so on)

 

We had huge fights about the virtual sex encounters. We got through it.

 

Fast forward to last year. We had another baby. He disappeared for a "massage" late at night. I know he had been stressed with work and baby. He claimed it was at one of those corporate massage chains (that actually do legitimate massages). Except that place is not open that late (11pm). When I confronted him about it, he then changed his story that he was actually at another massage place. And then he lied saying that he was late b/c he was picking up some baby supplies from the late night pharmacy. But where were the supplies? "Oh they ran out". I drove out and checked....they did not run out.

 

Well turns out the place he went is an Asian Massage Parlor. I confronted husband again. He got defensive saying he went there just for a deep tissue massage. That they are the only place that will do very deep massage, and that how could I even accuse him of getting a sexual service there. He acted disgusted and turned the argument on me not trusting him.

 

We fought and then got through it. Well, now things have been off between us for the last few months. He's disappeared with some unaccounted time (not a ton, but enough to make me wonder), our sexual intimacy down. Recently discovered he had a secret email address. This week it just all came to head, when I confronted him about everything. Turns out he did get a handjob at the AMP. He's been having ongoing webcam live cybersex. He's been having sexual emails, though he won't admit with whom or about what (am suspecting craiglist type stuff, but really dont know). But he firmly denies any physical or emotional affair with another person.

 

He says he's sorry and wants to change. Wants to stay married. Says he will be more transparent and will let me do location tracking via his phone. Sure that helps, but I don't want to be his parole officer! I want a faithful partner I can respect, love! Not this.

 

This has been making me crazy. Thank you for letting me vent this long message. Just me admitting this story someplace is helpful I guess. I'm trembling right now as I type, in anger, grief, humiliation, confusion. Do I stay for the kids, or do I keep some semblance of dignity and separate? Can he really even change?

 

It's so hard. He's otherwise a great person and father, and has a high professional reputation in our community. But he has this dark other life that I'm not sure I can live with.

[bluebird123]

I forgot to add that in his browsing history, I also saw that he had visited online stores for specific sex toys. But I've never seen those sex toys at home. When confronted, husband claims that he never bought them and just looked at them. I sort of believe him, but at this point I don't know when he's just lying to cover things up. For all i know, he's using them with someone else. But I'm giving him benefit of doubt, and perhaps he was just looking at those online store items for jollies.

 

I'm too numb about everything else he's lied about to care about missing sex toys.

[Ms. Faust]

No, you should never stay just for the kids, imo, unless you want to pay for their future therapy sessions.

[Ladyjane14]

Sorry to say it, but it looks like you've got a possible sex addict on your hands. You'll want to get thoroughly tested for STDs. Try a copy of Breaking the Cycle by George Collins. It's a little different than the usual 12-step programs, which are apparently the main-stay of sexual addiction treatment.

 

There's nothing you can do for the marriage though unless/until he's willing to come clean and recognize he's got a problem.

[bluebird123]

Ladyjane, that thought occurred to me too but wasn't sure. Thank you, I will check out the book.

 

And to touba and Faust, the comments brought tears to my eyes b/c you're probably right. Reality check for me.

[Ms. Faust]

Are you a SAHM?

[MJJean]

So, you say he's a great partner and father, yet he leaves you to juggle moving furniture and the kid(s) so he can stay late at work and have cybersex, that he's paying for with marital funds, no less.

 

He's a serial cheater and a chronic liar. I don't know about you, but serial cheaters and liars aren't exactly my idea of a great partner.

[elaine567]

He can't change, you can't change him, you either accept he is always "playing away" in some form and manner, or you get out.

 

I do not think it is particularly healthy living in a relationship where lying is the "norm", and trust is always being tested and found wanting, not good for you or your kids, and kids know when things are not right with their parents.

[bluebird123]

Ms Faust, I'm not a SAHM but I only work part-time and he is the breadwinner. Though I can't make a living on my current income, I could probably get a full-time job easily in my field if it came to it.

 

Elaine, you are totally right about the trust. and really after all these years of lying, I guess I can't believe he'll suddenly change and be lie-free for future decades of marriage. I'm just reeling from all this and will slowly have to come to grips with possible separation. I guess none of us head into marriage expecting divorce.

 

I did tell him that I would commit to couples counseling before any big decisions. So all I'm focusing on now is getting to that first session. Otherwise I would feel lost in this sea of emotions.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts everyone. I have to head off the computer for a bit, but will touch base again....

[Mrs. John Adams]

You both need to be in therapy to help you sort through all of this.

 

I know it is easy for me to say... Leave... Because I am not walking in your shoes.

 

But I get no sense of remorse from this man in your story ... What I get is he is sorry for getting caught.

And until he understands the repercussions from his actions... Actions that he has repeated throughout the marriage ... For years... I don't see any indication that he will change.

 

He will behave for a while... But I am willing to bet.. He slides right back into the same behavior again.

 

I am really sorry you are here.. I am sorry you have to go through this.

Infidelity is devastating...

 

I think I would ask him to leave....

[Mr. Lucky]

 

I think I would ask him to leave....

 

At the very least, I'd tell him this - we'll separate and you can, provided you're willing to be patient ans work hard enough, earn your way back into the door.

 

The guys I know that seem to need these side sexual gigs have never been able to give them up. And some have paid a very steep price...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CarrieT]

By staying "for the kids" you are not only giving him permission to continue his behavior (because you know he will!), but you are teaching your children that his actions are acceptable.

 

The children may be infants or toddlers now, but eventually they will learn the type of Dad their father is and what he did to their Mother.

 

Do you want to raise your children with this type of lesson - that deceit and lies are acceptable in a marriage?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

He lied about cybersex and happy ending at AMP. Do I stay for the kids?

 

 

 

No, of course not!!

 

 

You never stay together for the kids.

 

 

Do you want your children to grow-up knowing that idiocy as their prime example of love and human relationships?

 

 

Or do you want to show them something that gives them half a chance to love in a healthy manner?

 

 

Move on!

 

 

(or pull-out, like your husband's father should have, years ago...)

[HurtHusband]

He likes cyber sex and massage parlours, that much is obvious. You can't ignore it / you shouldn't have to live with it or endure it. I understand your frustration as I'm married to a cheating wife who is more interested in intimacy with another married man than me... It's a **** situation and you are worrying and tying yourself up in knots about it, meanwhile he is hardly suffering.

 

I don't think you can endure this for years..I can't either tbh.

Take care of yourself and give yourself a break. He is either in or out of the marriage. Horrible that it has to happen/ I feel your pain and all I wanted is a normal family and not this sicky pitt of the stomach stuff...and checking his phone and getting the hand tremors.. Yup been there too.

Amazing is'ent it..well think about some time in the future when you won't have the tremors and won't care. Can you move back to your parents place with the kids?

 

Tell him your sick of being lied to and move out while he's at work...

 

Leave him a box of tissues and tell him have fun with naughty Mandy.

[Ohthisagain]

You're in a tough spot bluebird.

 

I was in a similar spot. After 4 years of marriage and with 1 little guy, I inadvertently found out about my husband's dating profile and casual hook up registrations, along with an email to a Craigslist prostitute. He denied any wrong-doing. It was just porn related. He never did anything and never "meant" to do anything. I really wanted to believe this Christian husband of mine. We went to counseling. I ended up getting pregnant shortly thereafter which was a surprise because we had to do IVF for our first child.

 

Another child followed the next year.

 

Life got better. The pain slowly drifted away. My husband has been a good guy other than this blip so I thought it was out of character and desperately tried to put it in the past.

 

When our youngest was 2 I started to hear about Jodie from work quite a bit. After 2 years of hearing about her and begging him to stop the clearly deep "friendship" he had with her, I found out he was lying to me about her and in love with the old whore. We separated. Got back together for the kids and the overall good life we have together, and on my end anyway, the love I have for him. I'd say his love for me too but I can't trust a damn word out of his mouth anymore so that's a toss-up.

 

The thing is I'm now close to certifiable. I'm not trusting. My whole outlook on life has changed. He still denies anything physical with her but I know better. This cat's stripes haven't changed one bit. I wish I would've had the guts to pull the plug after the first incident. Now I get to play marriage police and feel on edge all the time.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[Popsicle]

I used to be a Massage Therapist and I worked at a professional place. "Happy Endings" were never on our menu.

[dreamingoftigers]

Feel free to read my earlier threads.

 

My husband was a real POS too.

 

I'm so very sorry for your pain. It is very devastating.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm so sorry that you're here. Your post made me think of several there have been in the last few months. Heartbreaking!

 

Older teens & early 20's kids finding that kind of disgusting betrayal on their Dad's phones or computers. Oh it's so sad. These poor young people are so betrayed & angry. In some situations fathers have made their kid keep the secret from their Mum's. Ugh!

 

Can you imagine the nightmare of one of your kids learning that about their father?!?

 

He has crossed so many lines. You know him better than us. Do you think he's embarrassed? Disgusted with himself? Does he see this as wrong? Sick? Betrayal? Adultery?

 

Basically, do you truly believe he has the willingness to give counseling his all? Is he really strong enough to 'heal' from this (even if he's going through a hard, stressful time in the future)?

 

I know, no one knows what they would do unless they're in the same situation but I don't think I could handle this. There are so many levels to it. Does he generally show respect for women?

[Lois_Griffin]

I noticed that peppered throughout your first post, after each slimy act he pulled, you'd say "we got through it and moved on.'

 

No, 'we' didn't get through anything. You unfortunately chose again and again to swallow another bite of the sh*t sandwich he keeps serving up to you is what actually happened. He pulls this crap over and over and over and you keep forgiving him over and over and over.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Each time you forgive him, you simply send him the message that no matter how much he disrespects you, you'll still stay with him.

 

You've married a serial cheater who gets off on sex workers - whether they're webcam girls or massage parlors or paid sex workers. Maybe he enjoys the degradation of paying them to do whatever he tells them to do. Maybe he just likes the convenience because he doesn't have the time to hang out in the local bar and schmooze up some woman in the hopes of getting some action at closing time. Maybe he looks like a bridge troll who can only get action unless he pays for it. Maybe he simply likes a 'sure' thing. Who knows. But it's been a habit of his for many many years.

 

And I do guarantee you that for every transgression you DO know about, there are undoubtedly probably 10 or 20 you DON'T know about. Only the very naive would believe they've caught him the ONLY times he was up to no good.

 

How could you possibly put a shred of faith in a proven serial cheater? They don't change. They don't suddenly become choir boys (unless they get a lobotomy and become a drooling moron - that's about the only way it might happen). If you weren't important enough and cherished enough all these years for him to show you the love and respect you deserved, why are suddenly worthy of it NOW? What happened - did his webcam break?

 

I'd send him for the lobotomy and tell him we'll talk afterwards. Otherwise, I wouldn't invest another minute in someone like this.

 

JMHO.

[minimariah]

Can he really even change?

 

no, he can't.

 

& he won't. you know this, come on.

 

you really have two options:

1. stay married & just turn your head the other way when it comes to his cheating and lies AND 2. divorce.

 

i'm really cheering for the second option. you don't have a good husband or a partner at home (no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you do) and i think you'll both be better off if you just divorce and coparent. and DO NOT have more kids with this man... don't dig yourself even deeper into that black hole called your marriage.

[SoleMate]

People CAN change, but they have to WANT to first. I see no indication that your husband wants to.

 

Usually people have to hit rock bottom and find it intolerable before they make that internal decision to change. I suppose there's a slight chance that if you made it clear he changes or the marriage is over, he might actually make good on it. Let me emphasize, slight chance. Not totally sure what rock bottom looks like for your husband, whether he's even willing to go there, or how long it would take.

 

Whatever else you do, please start taking action now planning for your future without depending on him. You've put work into this marriage with an expectation of permanence, trusting that he was equally working for the good of the family. And he wasn't. You've made financial and personal sacrifices on false assurances. Your years of childbearing and childcare have put a permanent dent in your lifetime income potential. How Childbearing Affects Women's Wages (The higher your skill level, the stronger the effect.) Whatever else happens, I'd like to see a post-nuptial agreement in your favor (properly drafted by a lawyer for enforceability) that redresses some of that financial imbalance. His willingness (or not) to actively work with you on and sign such a document would indicate his level of commitment to change. Anything other than total enthusiasm is a bad sign.

 

Best wishes and hugs.

[Oberfeldwebel]

The only thing worse for a child than being from a broken home is being in a broken home. This man is a narcissist and highly unlikely to ever chance. It's not that it can't happen, but the odds are greatly against that happening. The OW are really irrelevant as this is about him and his selfish desires being met. He will promise you again and again, but will eventually relapse.

 

I highly recommend that you do the following:

 

a. Consult with an attorney, you don't have to file for divorce, but you need to understand your legal position.

b. Make a plan for what you will need financially and for child care, custody, visitation if things get to that point. It is better to have a plan and not use it, than to be unprepared.

c. He must give you total access to all media and devices (non-negotiable).

d. He needs to attend counseling and consent to counselor giving you periodic updates.

e. You can pull the plug at anytime and proceed to divorce if he is unwilling to comply or you have just had enough.

f. I would also expose behavior to family, this will provide you with support and help make him accountable for his actions.

 

I don't tell people to divorce as only you can make that decision, but you need to look at this very carefully and this kind of behavior rarely changes. Best wishes to you and your family.

[bluebird123]

He will behave for a while... But I am willing to bet.. He slides right back into the same behavior again.

 

Yes, this is the truth. I literally said this to his face the other night, even before seeing your response Mrs JA. And I am going to keep reminding myself.

 

Commenters had good points about what role model I want for my little ones. Although he is a warm and engaged father, ultimately, yes you are all right that these are not the values I want to underlie their upbringing. Also, I would be a constantly suspicious parole officer if I stayed, and that's not the type of negative relationship I want them to be exposed to as a norm. Nor would that be healthy or fulfilling for me.

 

I guess ultimately this gives me my answers.

 

Thank you all so much for lending a listening "ear." I've just been in an emotional black hole, that's been hard to get a grip on reality.

[Mrs. John Adams]

you know....it doesn't make anyone happy that we are probably right.

These are real lives...affected by real issues...and no one wins.

 

I am truly sorry you have to deal with this.....and I wish we knew a magic formula to make everything better.

 

Best of luck to you....I hope you find healing and happiness.

[bluebird123]

Ohthisagain, your post truly resonated with me. I am taking your experience to heart and learn from it. It's so similar to what I've been going through. If I stay, it's going to go in the same direction as you say "marriage police." And of course none of us want that. So sorry for our shared experience :'(

 

Shatteredlady, very good points about kids. As for your questions about context, he does feel disgusted and purchased the book that was recommended earlier in the thread. He says he deeply wants to change. But he's said that in the past, and I want to harden my heart against his meaningless words. And to your question, he's generally respectful of women, pro women's rights, etc. So, yes a two-faced, hypocritical paradox.

 

Oberfeldwebel. thank you for your clear, rational advice on next steps. All so logical, but I guess when one is in an emotional storm, those beacons of logic are not so clear. I had started on step b (financial, visitation, moving mental prep), but didn't consider step a and c.