bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 The only time I feel secure is when we are together
Midwestmissy Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 Why do you think that is? My feelings go in waves. My wh does what needs to be done in terms of reconciling, but I do have pangs too. His affair ended 2.5 yrs ago, but I've only known the last truth for a bit over a year. His handling of everything was pretty lousy. I have no control (nor do I want it) if he wants to stay or not. He's here because he chooses to be. As am I. But he did change the marriage. I haven't found reason to think he's cheating now, or in the last 2.5 yrs, but we all know that's a pretty low bar after infidelity. Do you want to stay? Maybe you are the ambivalent one? 1
road Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 OP, Recovery takes two to five years. Midwestmissy, being you just got the last bit of truth 1 year ago it in a sense you had another D day so 1.5 years of the last 2.5 years of recovery have been lost because that last D day caused the recovery clock to be reset from 1 year ago. Trust takes a long time to recover. Have your WS's done everything to repair the broken trust? What do you need them to do to make you feel safe?
Cloudcuckoo Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 The only time I feel secure is when we are together That must be so hard bobwhite, and utterly exhausting.
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 The only time I feel secure is when we are together Do you attribute this to the affair? I ask because...the only time i feel secure is when we are together....but it has nothing to do with infidelity. It has to do with the fact that we have been married almost 44 years....he is my best friend....I am happiest when we are together. I remember feeling this same way before infidelity ever happened. 1
katielee Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 The only time I feel secure is when we are together Does she do a good job of revealing her feelings to you? Thats what helps me.. to really know where his head is at... if I can feel its with me and our future, then I'm secure. 2
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Why do you think that is? My feelings go in waves. My wh does what needs to be done in terms of reconciling, but I do have pangs too. His affair ended 2.5 yrs ago, but I've only known the last truth for a bit over a year. His handling of everything was pretty lousy. I have no control (nor do I want it) if he wants to stay or not. He's here because he chooses to be. As am I. But he did change the marriage. I haven't found reason to think he's cheating now, or in the last 2.5 yrs, but we all know that's a pretty low bar after infidelity. Do you want to stay? Maybe you are the ambivalent one? After googling ambivalent I'd say yes I am. I don't know which route to take
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Does she do a good job of revealing her feelings to you? Thats what helps me.. to really know where his head is at... if I can feel its with me and our future, then I'm secure. No I don't know her true feelings , I don't know her when Iam not around
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Do you attribute this to the affair? I ask because...the only time i feel secure is when we are together....but it has nothing to do with infidelity. It has to do with the fact that we have been married almost 44 years....he is my best friend....I am happiest when we are together. I remember feeling this same way before infidelity ever happened. Yes I attribute it to the affair. We have been married 35 years. I was never In secure about anything before. 2
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 That must be so hard bobwhite, and utterly exhausting. It is . I have never been a nail biter, but I am now. I gotta work on that.
katielee Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 why not have a conversation with her about this? Did you guys ever do MC? IC for yourselves?
Midwestmissy Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 Not knowing her feelings is very unstabilizing. Of course that would make you insecure. Our partners hid their feelings about a lot during the affair, so as soon as we sense that distance or unknowing, we are thrown right back. To me, the first step would be couples therapy or individual therapy for you. Do you think she's still being unfaithful? You do deserve happiness, whatever form that may take. 1
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 SO you only feel secure when you are with her...because you fear she will leave you? because you fear she will cheat again? Because when she is with you...you can control the situation? Has she given you total remorse? Are you insecure because she is not giving you a reason to trust? What is SHE doing to help you feel safe? 1
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 why not have a conversation with her about this? Did you guys ever do MC? IC for yourselves? I have been thinking about telling her this very same thing. I did have individual counseling early on. The last session the counselor said to either leave her get over it, she chose you. I am not sure if that hurt or helped me. She would not go to counseling. Every little thing now throws up a red flag. I have learned and what has probably help me the most is trying my best to treat her the way I want to be treated no matter what I've done. I have taken this a step further by trying to treat everyone I come in contact with the way I want to be treated. Somehow that seems to make me a happier person. It is very hard to do because as you all well may know some people are hard to get along with. But it works. I can sense that she is feeling more comfortable every day which even puts me more on edge and On alert. I am pretty sure she still deletes a lot of stuff from her phone and there is a lot of stuff she does not share with me.
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 so she is doing nothing to make you feel safe. MAy I ask then...why are you staying in the marriage? 1
Author bobwhite007 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 so she is doing nothing to make you feel safe. MAy I ask then...why are you staying in the marriage? For grandsons one granddaughter that lives with us. And I think I would be just as miserable if I left.maybe I understand a little how she got to the point she was at. I have never been given the complete truth and without that I can't really decide for myself. I know her well enough to know what was up.
BetrayedH Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 so she is doing nothing to make you feel safe. MAy I ask then...why are you staying in the marriage? No, she's not doing anything to make him feel safe. He once trailed her and caught her hanging in another guy's vehicle in a cemetary but didn't confront them. Later when he expressed anxiety about her potentially having an affair, she said, "It's driving you crazy not knowing the truth, isn't it?" I think she gets off on it. Bob isn't good about finding proof and is reticent to take action. 1
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 Bob... So you have chosen to live a life in fear.. In a broken relationship. One filled with dishonesty... And secrecy... And you accept it. My friend.... You will never feel safe under those circumstances. Never. So this is your new normal. If it gets to be more than you can bear.. You will change it. You see.. You cannot reconcile alone. You can exist... But you cannot rebuild a broken relationship without both sides working toward a common goal. Your grandchildren need you... But they need you healthy. And this relationship is not healthy for you or for them. Can you tell me... Has your wife ever done anything post affair to indicate to you that there is hope? 2
bigman1 Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 IMHO, until you stop putting up false barriers between you and the problem, you are going to continue to be miserable. You put the grandkids as a reason. You put your "suspected" state of being miserable between you and the problem. It really is a way to deflect, deny and avoid the issues. You've got 35 years in and the thought of not having what you have gotten used to is so terrifying that you look for any excuse. It is completely understandable. Hell, I'd say that is a dang good excuse to want to avoid facing up to the possibilities that would exist if you confronted things head on. Still, inaction is not a good plan of action. You are not a seer of the future. You can't know how anyone will be affected, but you know how you have been feeling and will continue to feel until you deal with this head on. Its not healthy for you. Physically or emotionally. You want the old life back and its NEVER coming back. You want old family ties and responsibilities to be the glue to hold each of you together as you used to be, but IT IS NOT and IT DID NOT STOP HER CHEATING. You want that old feeling you were used to. By way of metaphor (simile for you English majors) You are sitting in your favorite chair in your favorite room of the house with the people you most want to be with, but the stench is unbearable. You want them to do something about it and they won't and you won't because you think someone might take your seat or that something catastrophic will happen. Here is a plan: Call it off. At least do through steps 1-10 of the 12 steps (metaphorical 12 steps) needed to end a marriage. Tell her you need to start making plans on what to do with the grandkids. Scheduling pick ups and stuff like that. Start valuation on the assets, Start making her participate in plans to end it and life after its over. I mean daily, serious plans. Phone calls to real estate agents, accountants, and lawyer. Get some paperwork for uncontested divorce and start filing it out. Let her see you commit to that. All you have to tell her is that since she is not willing to help keep you together and sane, that the only option that allows you to live long and healthy is to end it. It all starts with these words: "I just can't take it anymore. I've tried. I've prayed. I've given it my all and I just can't take it anymore." Don't look her in the eye when you say those words. Don't look her in the eye when you have any conversation about ending it. If she brings anything up about the grands or whatever, just look off and say, "They'll be fine". Lack of eye contact shows detachment. As a trial lawyer, when a jury came back and avoided looking at the defendant, it was always guilty. They could not look at them because the had to do something unpleasant to them. Trust me. and your fall back should always be to just look away and shake your head "no". You have to commit. Along the way, you might actually realize that ending it is actually the best for everyone. Maybe things turn around, maybe they don't and then you will have to decide whether to finish the last steps. 2
Mr. Lucky Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 IMHO, until you stop putting up false barriers between you and the problem, you are going to continue to be miserable. You put the grandkids as a reason. You put your "suspected" state of being miserable between you and the problem. It really is a way to deflect, deny and avoid the issues. You've got 35 years in and the thought of not having what you have gotten used to is so terrifying that you look for any excuse. It is completely understandable. Hell, I'd say that is a dang good excuse to want to avoid facing up to the possibilities that would exist if you confronted things head on. Still, inaction is not a good plan of action. Amen. You're like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, waking up to the same thing over and over. Sounds absolutely debilitating. Rather than two grandparents that love them living in one place, your grandkids would have two loving adults in two places. I'd give your wife a choice and a chance - and then I'd pursue an emotionally healthy life... Mr. Lucky 1
strugglinghubby Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 You are the rug, she is the big muddy boots that tread on you and wipe themselves off on you over and over again. This is no way to live your life man, stand up for yourself and let her know in no uncertain terms that she needs to respect you for the person you are. 180 right now and read no more mr nice guy.
flowergirl14 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I get this 100% I too feel the same way and have said as much to my wh. Of course he still cheats and deletes texts etc. It really is no way to live. Im trying to do stuff for myself to strengthen me so I can get the f**k out of this marriage!
aliveagain Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 It has been about three years and you still don't act on what you know. You know about her boss, the guy that owns the plumbing business and the insurance man. You've seen her parked with men in parks and graveyards but never approach their car. You never contacted the o/m's wives, you couldn't find their phone numbers. We recommended you employ the services of a PI but here you are all these years later in the same situation. She knows you'll never leave her and has basically told you the same with the way she taunts you. The only thing you know for sure is she gives you B/J's every time she cheats. That can't be the reason you stay? I would rather live alone then live in a relationship with so little trust. Your going to make yourself sick waiting for her to come clean. What a way to live your life. 1
Lois_Griffin Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I have been thinking about telling her this very same thing. I did have individual counseling early on. The last session the counselor said to either leave her get over it, she chose you. Only a fool makes such an ignorant statement - 'she CHOSE you.' Like that's supposed to be some kind of accomplishment or that you 'won.' She chose you back when she married you. The fact that she cheated and chose not to leave doesn't mean she 'chose' you. Cheaters are some of the most selfish and self-serving people on the planet. A good portion of why they stay is because it benefits them to do so. Only an idiot would infer she 'chose' you like you're the 'winner' or something. 2
merrmeade Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 OP, Recovery takes two to five years. Midwestmissy, being you just got the last bit of truth 1 year ago it in a sense you had another D day so 1.5 years of the last 2.5 years of recovery have been lost because that last D day caused the recovery clock to be reset from 1 year ago. Trust takes a long time to recover. Have your WS's done everything to repair the broken trust? What do you need them to do to make you feel safe? Wow, this woke me up. I'm going to remind my WH of this. The last time he got huffy about my slowness to freaking get over the depression his secret life bestowed on me, I reminded him I'm only 3-1/2 out of the 5 years it takes to recover. Now, I realize, in fact, it's only 1-1/2 years since the last detail dribbled out for me, too. Sobering. But, you know, if you think about it further, this 2-5 years yardstick is mostly pertinent to BSs who were given the whole truth up front - NO trickle-truth - and (usually) one affair. The fact of trickle-truth and not consciously opening up and making themselves wholly vulnerable to us means we must always doubt that we have the whole truth. The other thing that occurs to me is the very meaning of the word "reconciliation" means the label is not misplaced. We are in a truce, a compromise. We have to decide if we can live with what they've given. In your case, bobwhite, your counselor tried to tell you simply the fact that she chose you should be enough for you. Bullcrap. I think now that there has to be enough of the basic elements — remorse, transparency and effort to protect and facilitate healing to feel safe. In my WH's case, I fully admit I've 'settled' and I've told him so. I've settled for what I consider a decent reconciliation. That is, he's given most of these 'basic elements' and he's changed as a person and partner. Here are some of the muddier compromises:Trickle-truthed but finally revealed all; Partial remorse laced with self-centered shame (i.e., my pain causes his shame);Clueless about some triggers (e.g., potential OW encounters); great about others. Shares more of himself than he ever did before but nothing like he did with OW (which I accept was complicated with circumstance, affair fog and her skill). Here's what works and enables me to feel genuine love and trust:Transparency — i.e., shares all passwords, knows I'll monitor in a heartbeat (which I do) — from the outset;No contact (perfect);No slipping, i.e., no cheating, no deleting, no hiding his actions (unless you count furtive ventures into soft porn on the internet every couple of months which I don't bother telling him I know about - meh);Even though my 'talks' render him temporarily irrational, afterward he shows he 'got it' and this attitude/affect sticks.Maybe you can make your own list. Maybe there are things she DOES do that you're not mentioning, but for me these would be dealbreakers: I have never been given the complete truth and without that I can't really decide for myself. I know her well enough to know what was up. I am pretty sure she still deletes a lot of stuff from her phone and there is a lot of stuff she does not share with me. 2
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