Stay in marriage for children? Need perspectives

[PegNosePete]

I think that's partly the reason why he doesn't want to divorce me. He loves that I do everything. He doesn't want that to change.

Yes, that's possible. It also means you might have to vary your tactics slightly.

• Make sure your divorce petition is watertight and doesn't rely on his co-operation, since he may try to stall or delay the process. You can get a divorce even if he refuses to sign anything, but it has to be done right, and it's easier to do it right from the start rather than trying to fix it later. Do not under any circumstances allow him to become petitioner!
  
• Make sure you secure all paperwork and documents that you might need, in case they "go missing". Birth certificates, passports, marriage certificate, etc.
  
• The particulars of the divorce are generally quite straightforward and can be drawn up at a later date. Use your free time with the solicitor to discuss the kids and the assets rather than who said or did what to cause the marriage breakdown. A solicitor is not a councillor.
  
• To prepare for your solicitor consultations, make a summary of your finances on one side of A4. Include house(s) value, outstanding mortgage(s) amount, pension values, incomes, savings, investments, debts, credit cards, loans, and any other assets. Don't bother with things like house contents (unless there's a collection of Ming vases) or other low-value things.
  

[TaraMaiden2]

Calmandfocused, you're getting a lot of valuable and sound advice here. Love what PegNosePete has written. All logical, practical and down-to-earth, sensible counsel.

 

Get your cards in order. Use your mind, and do what you need to do, swiftly and efficiently.

 

You will have plenty of time afterwards to reflect, allow emotions to rise, and answer your heart's longing.

[LifeNomad]

everyone here has pretty much given great advice, so I can just say from my experience,

 

 

2 years after me and ex split, the kids still ask and make random comments about us getting back together, totally breaks me down inside every time. While i understand its important for their mom to be happy, and her being happy is what allows me to be happy, it hurts that our kids hang on to this hope or feeling their parents will get back together, that they hope and want a normal unbroken family.

 

 

At this point I dunno what long term consequences may happen because of our breakup, but I personally try to be the best dad I can be, I think im a better dad than I was.

[Redhead14]

everyone here has pretty much given great advice, so I can just say from my experience,

 

 

2 years after me and ex split, the kids still ask and make random comments about us getting back together, totally breaks me down inside every time. While i understand its important for their mom to be happy, and her being happy is what allows me to be happy, it hurts that our kids hang on to this hope or feeling their parents will get back together, that they hope and want a normal unbroken family.

 

 

At this point I dunno what long term consequences may happen because of our breakup, but I personally try to be the best dad I can be, I think im a better dad than I was.

 

it hurts that our kids hang on to this hope or feeling their parents will get back together -- If the kids seem to be hoping that their parents will get back together, it's not about that, it's about hoping/wanting the happy home environment that may have existed. Kids do not have the ability to look at the big picture or the future. There is a saying: Kids would rather be FROM and broken home, than IN one and they don't understand this until they are much older.

 

The only thing you can do is to focus on the children and keep things civil and respectful between you and they ex and show the children that you two want to and are still working together as a "parental unit" for them and emphasize that they are not to blame for anything and that you both love them.

[Calmandfocused]

Wow! You people seem to know so much about this stuff. I would have never have known all this stuff prior to my thread.

 

Why should he not be the petitioner? I don't think he ever would, I'm just curious why?

 

I'm going to get all documents together as advised. Do I need his passport info and birth certificate or just my own? The marriage certificate is in my possession so no difficulty there. What about the children's birth certificates? Do I need these?

 

Again, I've been looking at uk law in regards to divorce. The way I understand it is you have to be physically separated for 2 years before divorce is granted or you can cite adultery and/ or unreasonable behaviour. Is this correct? I want to proceed ASAP but want to avoid dragging all our dirty laundry through court if I can help it.

[oldshirt]

In regards to the children, children are not harmed by divorce in and of it'self.

 

 

Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, chemical abuse and living in a toxic, chronically hostile environment.

 

 

They are not harmed by having two loving, supportive, involved parents who happen to live in two different homes. They may be inconvenienced by going back and forth between houses but they are not harmed or damaged by doing it.

 

 

In your situation it is questionable how effective and supportive of a single parent he will be. But he is pretty crap for one now and you are the one providing them the love and support and daily interaction and nurturing now.

 

 

My guess is if you two were to separate, he may spend one or two weekends with them and then decide that parenting just isn't his thang and he will be glad to let you have them pretty much full time so he can do his thing and get drunk on weekends and chase chicks and such.

 

 

Within a short amount of time he will pretty much be out of the picture as a home and family life with children and responsibilities and getting along with people etc etc just isn't his thing.

 

 

This is mostly going to come down to a child support issue and how much financial support you are going to be able to get out of him. In time he'll be glad to let you go and he'll be glad to not have to mess with the kids, but he will be reluctant to shell out money for them.

 

 

He is also probably enough of a jerk that he will drag his feet and fight you on a lot of things just to complicate things and to hurt you.

 

 

For these reasons I do think you should be looking for a "bulldog" lawyer because he isn't going to go quietly and cooperatively. If he was cooperative and rational and kind and cared about other people and cared about his responsibilities, would you be divorcing him in the first place????

 

 

So he's been a $h!thead during the marriage so there is no reason to expect any less or any more of him in the divorce.

 

 

You picked a real winner there and now it's going to take some work and effort to get him out of the picture as well. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is going to be smooth and easy. The marriage wasn't smooth and easy so there is no reason to think the divorce will be either.

 

 

Circle your wagons, get your ducks in a row and prepare for the worst. Hopefully it won't be that bad but you must be prepared for it.

[RocketRace]

Sounds like he needs a big wake up call.

 

Your hubby may fully understand and be completely aware of your pain, but he’s not motivated by your pain.

 

If he likes the marriage as it is, he’ll put up with an occasionally disagreeable conversation now and then.

 

Without nagging and without pretty recriminations (withholding sex, the silent treatment, a critical spirit, and so forth), gently but forcefully make him realize that as long as he acts the way he does, your marriage is going to suffer in specific ways — ways that affect him.

 

When he starts feeling his own pain enough he will change his behavior.

 

If you have been down the same path before then go further down the path each time until he realizes he can't behave that way.

 

Telling him you want to separate is starting this process. But it doesn't mean you need to do it.

 

Build your marriage from scratch once again if you want to have it. You can rekindle your love for him - and it will be up to him to work with you on it together.

 

Write a list of behavior you will not tolerate from him and give it to him in the presence of a marriage counselor so there is a third party to mediate.

 

If he has issues with you - suggest he does the same.

 

Start from the bottom together and build your marriage again. If he is not willing then put more pressure on him for separation.

 

Your kids deserve you to be happy and him to be happy also and if you can both get through the pain and be happy together then this is ideal for your kids.

 

A marriage takes forgiveness over and over again so it will be hard for a long time. But you can make it better if you work together.

 

If you go down the path of working on it together and he gets rude again - then pull out the list. Face him with the facts.

[testmeasure]

Get out now.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Children need healthy role models. Taking an unhealthy relationship and by sheer force of will holding it front and center, jamming it in their face isn't doing them a favor.

 

Emotional abuse actually has very real damage. It's not healthy. (to you or the kids - how can I say both of those with underscores and bolding, wait on an edit I should remember how to bold something. I think I might be able to do it.) -last edit's the best

 

Going to a lawyer wasn't something I reached the point of being able to do. At that stage, I needed her to do it first and she did. When I got my lawyer, I needed him. It's another 3rd party voice. The lawyer is blunt and to the point. In my case he was the first one to tell/validate me that she was "crazy".

 

I didn't think I could do it first. Do it as soon as you think you can. In some rural counties there are only a hand full of attorneys who practice family law. Aquainting yourself with each of them may give you opportunity while a the same time possibly making it impossible for your ex to employ them. If he can't get a local attorney who is familiar with the local courts, sorry, that's a disadvantage.

 

For any sense of comedy. My ex burned up every family attorney in our county. She did that, not me. Then we ended up in court with me with an in-county attorney and her with an outsider. Her attorney spun wheels that didn't engage a single thing in the GAL report.

 

Divorce seems like a dice throw. It is. It could go for you and give you the best of everything ever after. It did for me.

 

.

Edited February 17, 2016 by testmeasure

[Calmandfocused]

Again, thanks for all the replies. I am definate in my decision that I want to dissolve the marriage. Whoever said that children living in a toxic environment rang true for me. I realise that staying in the marriage will be harmful for them. Both my children are boys and I don't want them to role model on their father. I want them to develop into decent men, not men who are abusive to their mother and partners/ wives. As far as I'm concerned the cycle needs to stop, the sooner the better for my childrens sake. I see that clearly now.

 

Oldhirt, your insight also rang true for me. Yes, he's play acting. There will be no change where my husbands concerned. He's 50 years old (I'm a lot younger) could I really expect him to change his ways at his age? I doubt it.

 

You're also correct in terms of finances. There is no way he will hand child support over with a smile on his face. This is a man that blackmailed me into paying him his hourly wage for 2 hours whilst I attended a job interview. I had no choice but to do this as I needed him to take care of the children and had no alternative.

[PegNosePete]

Why should he not be the petitioner? I don't think he ever would, I'm just curious why?

Because the petitioner sits in the driving seat of the divorce and controls the timescales. The petitioner has to file papers with the court and submit them and return the paperwork. If the petitioner chooses to sit on their hands then all progress in the divorce will stall. It would be very difficult, time consuming and expensive for the respondent to progress it. It's much easier to force a divorce on an uncooperative spouse if you're the petitioner.

 

Ironically, if you want to stall or prevent or delay a divorce, the best way to do it is to file, and then do nothing.

 

Do I need his passport info and birth certificate or just my own? The marriage certificate is in my possession so no difficulty there. What about the children's birth certificates? Do I need these?

Just your own. Although having the children's may be useful.

 

The way I understand it is you have to be physically separated for 2 years before divorce is granted or you can cite adultery and/ or unreasonable behaviour. Is this correct? I want to proceed ASAP but want to avoid dragging all our dirty laundry through court if I can help it.

Yes, pretty much. But it makes absolutely no sense to wait for 2 years, especially if your husband may try to prevent the divorce. The 2 years separation requires his consent, after all... all he has to do to prevent the divorce going through after 2 years, is to simply do nothing. Then you'd be stuck having to wait 5 years for the 5 years separation without consent reason. Switching from 2 years separation with consent to unreasonable behaviour, is difficult.

 

Don't use adultery. The burden of proof is on you, and proving that actual sex occurred between him and another woman can be very difficult if he denies it. You need either a child with a paternity test or some very explicit photos.

 

It makes much more sense to use unreasonable behaviour. There won't be any dirty laundry airing, don't worry. The petition is confidential and a court appearance won't even be necessary. Contesting a properly-worded divorce petition is a waste of time and money.

 

There is no way he will hand child support over with a smile on his face.

Luckily child support follows a set formula and applying for it is relatively simple. You can do it yourself or ask the solicitors about this. It is not necessary for him to smile while he pays but if he doesn't he can end up in a lot of trouble and he will have to make back-payments too.

Edited February 17, 2016 by PegNosePete

[Calmandfocused]

Right, ive got all my documents together as you suggested Pete. I've also shortlisted 4 solicitors in my local area that I'm going to call and make enquiries. I've hidden the marriage certificate just incase.

 

Pete, I hope your detailed knowledge of family law comes from any work experience youve obtained, and not because you've been through a similar mess to the one I'm going through. I hope not.

 

Luckily we have no joint accounts due to his penny pinching. Also, we have no joint debts which at least is something. I don't expect this road to be easy but I'm willing to take it on. It will be worth it for my children and I in the end.

[testmeasure]

This is a man that blackmailed me into paying him his hourly wage for 2 hours whilst I attended a job interview. I had no choice but to do this as I needed him to take care of the children and had no alternative.

 

Wow. Just wow. That's not normal.

 

.

[notbroken]

I stayed in a marriage 'for the kids' for a decade. It was a very bad choice. Your kids will believe the way he treats you is normal. They'll think it is normal for women to put up with verbal abuse. They'll think a nonloving relationship is normal. Your marriage will serve as a very bad example to them. It is all they know. In short, you are not really helping your kids long term.

 

I think alot of people that 'stay together for the kids' really do it out of fear and ultimately laziness if they are perfectly honest with themselves. They use the kids as an excuse. It is a poor excuse that doesn't really benefit the kids long term.

 

Best wishes. Divorce is hard. Things will likely get tougher before they get better but they will eventually be better - maybe much better if you make it that way.

 

I have no/few regrets about divorcing. I regret 'staying together for the kids' tremendously. It was NOT 'best' for them.

[oldshirt]

 

Yes, he's play acting. There will be no change where my husbands concerned.

 

This is a man that blackmailed me into paying him his hourly wage for 2 hours whilst I attended a job interview. I had no choice but to do this as I needed him to take care of the children and had no alternative.

 

There is no hope for a person like this. He will never be a normal, kind, decent person.

[Calmandfocused]

And to everyone whose been in similar circumstances who eventually got out, we're you always called "crazy", "not right in the head" or "needed your head looking at" if you dared to even question their behaviour? That's my husbands favourite comeback recently.

 

Also we're you always gaslighted? Did you spouse always recollect past events in a way that never happened? And called you stupid for believing something different? I'm interested to know whether gaslighters truly believe something different happened or whether they intentionally do it to manipulate and downplay their role in events?

[dreamingoftigers]

And to everyone whose been in similar circumstances who eventually got out, we're you always called "crazy", "not right in the head" or "needed your head looking at" if you dared to even question their behaviour? That's my husbands favourite comeback recently.

 

Also we're you always gaslighted? Did you spouse always recollect past events in a way that never happened? And called you stupid for believing something different? I'm interested to know whether gaslighters truly believe something different happened or whether they intentionally do it to manipulate and downplay their role in events?

 

My father is like this with my mother and me (his oldest, the other two are autistic, so he just tells at them).

 

The good part about it is that I recognized it after my husband cheated so I knew it was bull.

 

But yes, they absolutely do that. Twist words and events to make themselves victimized or heroic. And you look like a really really bad person. (In their version of events)

 

You'll also find these really weird motivations ascribed to you. Like "you are just trying to control them or make them feel bad" of you bring up any feelings of your own.

 

And if you sound frustrated over breaking a mop mid-floor (for instance) they act like you are somehow 'attacking' them by sighing too much or whatever.

[Miss Peach]

2 years after me and ex split, the kids still ask and make random comments about us getting back together

 

My kid doesn't even remember her dad and I together. The kid used to be shocked I knew their dad. Recently, many years post divorce, they have asked why don't we all live together again so we can see each other every day.

 

You will want to think of age appropriate things to tell the kids about why you are splitting. With mine, the kid was so young I just said "Mommy and Daddy get grumpy living in the same house" and that was enough of an explanation. The topic keeps getting opened up though. For example at one point the kid asked "were you ever married?". Stuff like that.

[Miss Peach]

And to everyone whose been in similar circumstances who eventually got out, we're you always called "crazy", "not right in the head" or "needed your head looking at" if you dared to even question their behaviour? That's my husbands favourite comeback recently.

 

Also we're you always gaslighted? Did you spouse always recollect past events in a way that never happened? And called you stupid for believing something different? I'm interested to know whether gaslighters truly believe something different happened or whether they intentionally do it to manipulate and downplay their role in events?

 

My XH gaslighted me, called me crazy, tried to take the kids away from me, etc. These are very common tactics for these types of men. I would say some use it at least subconsciously to control. I'm not convinced it conscience for all these guys. But there are quite a few who believe in their alternative reality.

 

I highly recommend the book 'Why Does He Do That?' by Lundy Bancroft. It has a great chapter about different tactics used as control people.

[testmeasure]

"And to everyone whose been in similar circumstances who eventually got out, we're you always called "crazy", "not right in the head" or "needed your head looking at" if you dared to even question their behaviour?"

 

Yes. I think you're describing "blame shifting" and "projection".

 

 

"Also we're you always gaslighted?"

 

When my ex was upset, the very form it took was anger and hostility combined with unpredictability. Her being upset, by itself, pretty much had all the qualities of gaslighting or ambient abuse.

 

 

"Did you spouse always recollect past events in a way that never happened?"

 

Once she started to become upset, she re-wrote stuff from the past or stuff from 5 minutes ago.

 

 

"And called you stupid for believing something different?"

 

When she became upset, it wasn't worth suggesting anything different, let alone defending it. That would just trigger more rage.

 

I didn't realize it at the time, but even if I could have found the perfect words, it wouldn't have mattered. Words didn't matter anymore. That's not the level on which she was engaging.

 

 

"I'm interested to know whether gaslighters truly believe something different happened or whether they intentionally do it to manipulate and downplay their role in events?"

 

As horrible as it is to imagine, I don't see what would prevent it from being possible to learn gaslighting as a calculated, intentional skill.

 

Then, there are those with emotional damage from early childhood trauma and abuse. I think with that kind of emotional damage, it's possible their very way of feeling, perceiving, and experiencing things could be that distorted.

 

 

.

Edited February 19, 2016 by testmeasure

[Calmandfocused]

Testmeasure, are you the chap that was in a "perfect relationship" that dramatically changed once you had your daughter? If so I read your story with interest. What an utter nightmare! How is your daughter? Do you have 50/ 50 custody?

 

I'm trying not to think about it at the moment but I do have real concerns about my children spending full days with my husband when we divorce. Mainly because I constantly witness how he puts his own needs above everyone else which unfortunately includes his own children. He won't do anything for them unless he has to. I work overtime for 5 hours on a Saturday sometimes. Not only do I have a nightmare getting him agree to have them in the first place, but the moment I get home he goes on and on about how tired he is and how hard it is for him. He's asked me a few times to give up my overtime for no other reason that he doesn't want to take care of the children. As you can imagine, an overnight stay with him would really worry me.

[PegNosePete]

I don't have kids, but from what I've heard, your concerns are quite normal. Many parents who feel they are the better parent, fear for the children's welfare when they are with the other. However you have to let that fear go. The kids will be fine.

 

What's important is that you set up a routine. Remember you will be living separately so you won't have to listen to him moaning about how tired he is. Ask him how much contact he wants to have in the long term (every other weekend, every saturday morning, etc) after you've divorced, and start implementing that routine as soon as possible. It may be more difficult whilst you're in the same house, but try your best.

 

If he messes you around with the contact times or can't cope with them, then since you're the more sensible party, you may have to take action or change the contact arrangements. Giving up your overtime will hurt you financially of course, so you should get more child support and/or spousal maintenance. These are things you can discuss with your solicitor. But the most important thing I think, is to talk to your STBX and make a parenting schedule. Once you've got that, then you can talk to a solicitor about the money.

[testmeasure]

Testmeasure, are you the chap that was in a "perfect relationship" that dramatically changed once you had your daughter? If so I read your story with interest. What an utter nightmare! How is your daughter? Do you have 50/ 50 custody?

 

Yes, I guess you must have read something in a different thread.

 

Our daughter is doing extremely well. Kids are very resilient.

 

I actually ended up with primary custody and 2/3 of the time.

 

Depending on what points I'm trying to make, I don't always stop to say how well things turned out when I'm describing stuff to people who are still in the middle of situations. Some of them don't even have kids.

 

I'm trying not to think about it at the moment but I do have real concerns about my children spending full days with my husband when we divorce.

 

Ok, the one thing I have to say is the word "chap", makes me think we might not live in the same country. I'm in the US. So, you've got to understand anything I give is the consensus as I see it over here.

 

(1) Current consensus of the legal and psychological professions is that both parents are important in the child's life and this is an overriding concern.

 

(2) There does seem to be a strong argument out there that a single good parent is all it takes for a kid to turn out ok. I have my moments of skepticism, but I'm not an expert in the field, so I have to defer until I have proof otherwise. Indeed, stories of people much further down this road seem to confirm that one good parent is enough. At the very least then you don't tarnish that one good parent with also having taken away the other parent.

 

(3) The things that stuff like "gaslighting" trace back to are very hard to test for, very hard to diagnose, the person will almost never seek treatment for them, and if the do there is little that can be done. It's a very intangible thing. No one has a black eye, there's no blood on the carpet and no bullet hole in the wall.

 

(4) The kinds of things the court listens to, in order to take away parental rights are things like, if the parent has fled the state abandoning the family with no means of contact, if they are in prison for life for a significant crime, if they are doing drugs the point they can't take care of even themselves, or if they are locked up in a mental institution.

 

(5) If you go look at the forums on BPDFamily, you will see stories where after years of collecting stacks and stacks of documentation of intangible emotional abuse and damage, finally eventually, the healthy parent is able to get the other parent's time reduced.

 

In the states, pretty much the minimum standard plan is every other weekend. If you go in asking for less, you've got to have super big reasons. A lot of places tend more toward 50/50.

 

The best argument for something more lopsided seems to be what the kids are currently used to. Who takes care of them most of the time now? How is it in the kid's best interest to change what they are used to if it's working? Particularly in the midst of the turmoil of a divorce?

 

But, even that isn't going to get you past every other weekend. To get anything less than every other weekend would be a huge uphill battle against 1-5 above. Even by going for every other weekend, I was able to make my ex look ridiculous because she didn't have the justification for it.

 

Mainly because I constantly witness how he puts his own needs above everyone else which unfortunately includes his own children. He won't do anything for them unless he has to.

It's part of them learning and establishing a relationship with their dad to deal with this. To all the legal and psychological professionals, that relationship is more important than the difficulties it may face. Period. End of story. We're not experts in these fields.

 

Even if years of personal experience eventually convince us all the experts are wrong, that won't change the consensus or what is likely to happen in a court room.

 

I work overtime for 5 hours on a Saturday sometimes. Not only do I have a nightmare getting him agree to have them in the first place, but the moment I get home he goes on and on about how tired he is and how hard it is for him. He's asked me a few times to give up my overtime for no other reason that he doesn't want to take care of the children. As you can imagine, an overnight stay with him would really worry me.

 

Start documenting this kind of thing. A well documented history of this could go a long way in establishing precedent of who the kids are used to having take care of them. The more clear that is, the more he needs a strong reason for changing what the kids are used to.

 

From what I've read and seen, if you come out of the gates trying to drastically limit his time with the kids, you're going to come off as overprotective and out of touch with the whole both parents are important consensus held by all the actual experts in both of the relevant fields.

 

By itself, if you're at odds with all the experts in the 2 relevant fields, and you haven't even studied the matter, that should give you pause. Even in moments where personal experience makes you skeptical of the consensus of the experts, realize that's still the consensus, so it's what's likely to happen.

 

Work on documenting his attitude toward the kids and your respective roles toward the kids. Keep a journal. Turn the time date stamp on for whatever camera or phone you take pictures with. Take pictures of the daily routine. Record in a journal when they wakeup and go to sleep, what they eat, who takes care of them how long, etc...

 

Medium long term, assume they are going to spend meaningful time with the father, including full days and overnights. Expect a side project for yourself to be figuring out what to teach them. Critical thinking. Increased social exposure to what is normal. Stories with moral themes about friendship and normal human interaction.

 

Longer long term you just have to see how it unfolds and build that stack of documentation of the intangible stuff.

 

I'm not an expert. I wonder about what happens if my ex rages against my daughter the way she raged against me. I've come to believe that even if my daughter is behind closed doors with my ex a significant period of time, there's not much I could do from behind those same closed doors to help my daughter. By staying I'd just cement my own role in an unhealthy relationship. By getting out from behind those closed doors, even if I had a minority of the time, I could still use that time to teach and show what is normal and healthy while at the same time providing a place of refuge outside of those closed doors. Armed with that, she might stand a chance behind the closed doors. Where as if I'm there with her, I'm just another confusing part of a gigantic mess, none of which is normal or healthy or has any moment of refuge.

 

 

.

Edited February 19, 2016 by testmeasure

[Redhead14]

Newbie here who would appreciate some outside perspectives.

 

My main question is: should I give my marriage another chance for the sake of my children or file for divorce from a marriage that is dead?

 

A bit of background:

I met my husband off POF in 2008. We had a whirlwind, passionate relationship from the start. He proposed 4 months after we met, we were married a year later and now have 2 children (age 5 and 3). Looking back I married a stranger so I'm aware that I only have myself to blame for the predicament I'm currently in. We've now been married nearly 6 years.

 

I could be here all day listing everything that I've had to put up with over the course of my marriage to date. However the issue that underpins everything to date is extreme selfish behaviour that has known no bounds. I've experienced financial exploitation, emotional abandonment during and after pregnancy, irrational temper tantrums whenever I've dared ask for his help in any way, and generally a disregard for my needs in any shape or form. For example, I got seriously ill after having my first child where I required an emergency operation to save my life. All I got was him ranting on about how my illness affected him and how unfortunate he was to marry a woman who was so sick after he married her (I'm fine now).

 

My "I'm done" moment came after another espisode where he went off his head because I asked him to look after the children when he's off work and I'm at work. At that moment I told myself that I just couldn't listen to him anymore going on about how much he doesn't want his own children. It breaks my heart every time.

 

Saying that the children adore him. He doesn't do anything untowArd to them, he just isn't interested in them if that makes sense.

 

Sexually we are suffering. Every time we do the deed I have to fight away flashbacks and images of him behaving like a lunatic. I hate him touching me.

 

So, what do you think? Is there any chance for us? I've told him I want to separate. Hes not taking it well and of course is behaving perfectly at the moment. What would you do in my position? Any feedback appreciated

 

Your number #1 priority is your children. There is a saying: "Children would rather be FROM a broken home than IN one." Do not kid yourself that the children are not being affected by the environment in the home. They pick up on atmosphere and tension. They either walk on eggshells or act out in that environment.

 

All I got was him ranting on about how my illness affected him

how much he doesn't want his own children

he just isn't interested in them -- the children adore him? If he isn't engaging them on a real level, and it appears that they adore him, it's not because they adore him, it's because they aren't getting enough from him and are "clinging" to him in an attempt to garner/receive what they need from him. The less they get from him, the more they attempt to pull him in.

 

is behaving perfectly at the moment. What would you do in my position? -- I would take this opportunity to reinforce your position, tell him what it is you need from him and for the family, demand that he attend counseling with you and/or at the very least become proactive in working together to resolve the issues in the relationship. If he refuses or gives lip service without following through, you end the marriage.

 

He sounds to be very self-absorbed and distracted from the relationship/family. He is absent. He's on his best behavior -- for a while. He will revert soon because he doesn't expect consequences or to be held accountable on any level. "Ah, this will blow over, she doesn't mean it". You wil find yourself in this dance forever if you don't expect /demand/and enforce your boundaries.

[JacksBack]

I wanted out of a divorce when my kids were about 8 and 7 once I recognized there was no connection, that she had narcissistic personality disorder and that things would never get better. I chose to stay in the marriage "for the kids" until my daughter turned 18 and finished high school. I was miserable for 10 years and the atmosphere in the house was horrendous. We are now divorced but I now know I made a mistake staying and that my kids have issues from living in a toxic environment.

[Calmandfocused]

Redhead, thank you very much for your very insightful post. Your observations rang very true. It's not been often that the children get my husbands undivided attention but when they do they love it. They ask for their father when he's not around so I assumed the bond was there. However, thinking about it, your probably right. They ask for him because they want their daddy's affection, love and attention. Its only natural.

 

I really hope they haven't overheard any of my husbands rantings about not wanting to look after them. I don't want them to develop any psychological issues as a result. I've tried to protect them from this but your right, they WILL pick up on it if they haven't already. It's for this reason mainly that I'm adamant in my decision that I will divorce him. There is no more chances as far as I'm concerned. I've been doing what you've suggested for over 7 years without change. It doesn't get better, it just gets worse.

 

Brady, apologies for my terminology. I use chap as a term to describe an adult male, a less formal term than gentleman but a more formal term than "fella". Sorry about that.

 

I'm delighted to hear that you got the higher percentage of custody. Sounds like it has served your daughter well. The general message that I'm getting from everyone is that the children will be ok with him and I should stop worrying about this. I endeavour to do just that. Thank you