Guys: why would you not answer the phone?

[Lorenza]

Imho youre wasting your time. Youre not ready to let go and move on and you dont think you deserve someone better so you got hooked and accepted his excuse like fish. Work on your self esteem and realize there are better guys out there who dont make you weak and clingy. He is not that special. Trust me.

 

Well what can I say, you're wrong.

[Fruitee]

^ In which part? You cant take it mentally when he is distant and he is not putting effort on keeping you.

[Lorenza]

^ In which part? You cant take it mentally when he is distant and he is not putting effort on keeping you.

 

I didn't know what was happening. Now we talked everything out, he apologized and promised to take more initiative and seek help for his restlessness. You can call it "getting on his hook", but it's actually me who looks him in the eye and sees if he's honest. He admited that his other relationships ended the same way and wants to put stop to it. It's good enough for me to give this a chance.

[SolG]

First of all Lorenza, big hugs for all the trauma you've been through lately!

 

Now I personally think you should change the way you're looking at this... I'M GOING TO POSE A WHOLE HEAP OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU. DONT ANSWER THEM HERE. THEY'RE JUST FOR YOU TO PONDER.

 

I'm not a clingy girlfriend - I get clingy and afraid when someone withdraws. If things are fine and I see that my partner is into me, I'm by no means clingy, unless wanting some contact during the day is considered clingy (depends on who you ask

 

For you to really reflect, you need to refocus on you and not the bf. Nobody else ever 'makes' us behave a certain way; as adults we are responsible for our actions. Someone elses action may elicit emotion, but we are only slaves to our emotions if we let ourselves be so. We need to be able to soothe our own emotions/anxiety in order to be able to be able to make appropriate behavioral response choices. Beyond childhood, that is nobody elses primary responsibility but our own.

 

So... why do you get afraid when a partner withdraws? What exactly are you afraid of? Is it a real and/or reasonable fear and do you think your emotional response proportional? Is choosing--and behaviour is a choice--to behave in a clingy way actually an effective response for you? In this circumstance, how could you soothe your own emotions; and what other responses could you choose that could be both healthier and more effective for you?

 

Yes, I realized that I need to not panick when he needs his time. One more reason why I don't want to end is that I don't think it's good for me to be with a man who will be 100% all about the relationship - my professional goals require me to be active and outgoing, it would be bad for me to submerge into a relationship. That's why I think it's good for me to reduce my needs instead of finding someone who'll nurture them. In a perfect scenario I should take that time off to do my things and it would be so much less stressful knowing that my boyfriend withdraws to be on his own for a while because his brain can't handle it all and needs to recharge rather than him losing interest or not caring..

 

Once again... switch it around... Is there actually something unreasonable about your needs? If not, why change or reduce them? How do you express them in a healthy way? How do you soothe yourself and control your behavioural response when you're emotional when they aren't met, and reassert them in a healthy way? And ultimately, what do you do if your expressed reasonable needs remain unmet despite you communicating them effectively?

 

I don't have all the answers and I regularly f%/$ up with the best of them and get carried away when in the grips of emotion. However, I do know I get much better outcomes when I feel a rising anxiety and I take the time to soothe myself and then examine where it's coming from and choose how to respond. Sometimes I write it out, or reflect while painting, or in the simpler cases just close my eyes and take a few breaths to refocus. You love music? You could try that :-)

 

And I also know that blame is never the answer. I can intensely love, or dislike someone; I can feel hurt by their actions.... but nobody controls me. I own me and my actions.

 

Just as my actions are about me, yours are about you, and your bf's are about him. His are about what he thinks and feels... not about you. At the end of the day whether he answers your calls or not, or even whether he loves you or not does not control who you are. That fantasic Lorenza you are when he is attentive? You are still that fantastic Lorenza when he doesn't call (you just don't feel like it). You are not loveable because an SO loves you... you are always loveable because you are. You are not controlled by others and nor are you a mere reflection of others. You are you.

 

Whew! Sorry about the rantiness here Lorenza. My own experiences have made me passionate about people loving and hanging on to themselves. I wish you all the best.

[Fruitee]

I didn't know what was happening. Now we talked everything out, he apologized and promised to take more initiative and seek help for his restlessness. You can call it "getting on his hook", but it's actually me who looks him in the eye and sees if he's honest. He admited that his other relationships ended the same way and wants to put stop to it. It's good enough for me to give this a chance.

 

Ok. Then you will give him a chance and you will take it all with grace.

[ExpatInItaly]

I didn't know what was happening. Now we talked everything out, he apologized and promised to take more initiative and seek help for his restlessness. You can call it "getting on his hook", but it's actually me who looks him in the eye and sees if he's honest. He admited that his other relationships ended the same way and wants to put stop to it. It's good enough for me to give this a chance.

 

OP, since you want to try again with him, I think you need to prepare yourself for what's probably going to happen again:

 

Let's say he gets angry or stressed or overworked, and drops contact again for several days. What are you planning to do in response to that? Imagine the days stretch into weeks. What are you going to do? How are you planning to manage your reaction and emotions during periods when he wants to be left alone? How will you get your emotional needs met when he's unavailable or unwilling to do so? What if a medical doctor disagrees with the Adult ADHD diagnosis - what then? These are questions you need to answer (for yourself) to really understand what you're signing up for here.

 

He is unlikely to suddenly stop going on cold on you altogether. By his own admission, he's always behaved this way; those old habits die hard. This would probably also continue for a period even under professional care. Changes to established, lifelong behaviour take concerted and sustained effort to change.

Edited February 24, 2016 by ExpatInItaly

[Redhead14]

OP, since you want to try again with him, I think you need to prepare yourself for what's probably going to happen again:

 

Let's say he gets angry or stressed or overworked, and drops contact again for several days. What are you planning to do in response to that? Imagine the days stretch into weeks. What are you going to do? How are you planning to manage your reaction and emotions during periods when he wants to be left alone? How will you get your emotional needs met when he's unavailable or unwilling to do so? What if a medical doctor disagrees with the Adult ADHD diagnosis - what then? These are questions you need to answer (for yourself) to really understand what you're signing up for here.

 

He is unlikely to suddenly stop going on cold on you altogether. By his own admission, he's always behaved this way; those old habits die hard. This would probably also continue for a period even under professional care. Changes to established, lifelong behaviour take concerted and sustained effort to change.

 

She needs to hit the "reset" button. Rewind this a little. Don't just pick up where you left off with him. You need to observe for awhile whether or not he actually puts in the effort required and that he's saying he will do. Guys are notorious for giving lip service to a woman who doesn't maintain/enforce boundaries. In other words, he will revert to previous behavior because there are no consequences. "Ah, she'll get over it or it'll blow over". Draw a line in the sand for yourself. Bottom line is, start "dating" each other again for awhile. No sleep overs or spending too much time at home. If he's making time to "date" you again, he has the ability to give you the time and attention you need in a relationship. If you get back into the relationship mode and he doesn't keep that up, you'll know it's not because he can't, it's because he doesn't want to.

[Gaeta]

Bottom line is, start "dating" each other again for awhile. No sleep overs or spending too much time at home. If he's making time to "date" you again, he has the ability to give you the time and attention you need in a relationship. If you get back into the relationship mode and he doesn't keep that up, you'll know it's not because he can't, it's because he doesn't want to.

 

I don't know Redhead. I am not a psychologist but relationships are suppose to evolve in time, not regress. You don't build straight and love by removing moments of intimacy like sleeping next to each other. Yes, if you want to pursue with a relationship you pick it up where it was and you make it go forward.

 

What builds love in people? Oxytocin. Especially men need it to build attachment and love. I can't see how removing all moments of intimacy will bring 2 people back together. I just can't.

 

I would not do it. I would not take a full blown relationship and regress it to 'dating'. It would harm a relationship by building resentment. What you're suggesting, to me, feels like a punishment to them. Taking away intimacy in a relationship, that has had intimacy for 4 months, is a punishment.

[Lorenza]

I don't know Redhead. I am not a psychologist but relationships are suppose to evolve in time, not regress. You don't build straight and love by removing moments of intimacy like sleeping next to each other. Yes, if you want to pursue with a relationship you pick it up where it was and you make it go forward.

 

What builds love in people? Oxytocin. Especially men need it to build attachment and love. I can't see how removing all moments of intimacy will bring 2 people back together. I just can't.

 

I would not do it. I would not take a full blown relationship and regress it to 'dating'. It would harm a relationship by building resentment. What you're suggesting, to me, feels like a punishment to them. Taking away intimacy in a relationship, that has had intimacy for 4 months, is a punishment.

 

We did minimize the amount of meetings we have, though we've been pretty much chatting all the time. We went out once and he came to sleep over once, both times were great. I think him needing to constantly travel to my place carrying his stuff has also put a strain on our situation. I remember how I used to spend most of the time at my ex's place and was exhausted from all the traveling and not having my stuff with me. It should be better when he finds a place of his own and we can divide who has to travel to whom fairly. But for now it seems really good to have fewer meetings. It's not a problem for me as long as I see him taking initiative to contact me and not just disappear and ignore.

[Redhead14]

I don't know Redhead. I am not a psychologist but relationships are suppose to evolve in time, not regress. You don't build straight and love by removing moments of intimacy like sleeping next to each other. Yes, if you want to pursue with a relationship you pick it up where it was and you make it go forward.

 

What builds love in people? Oxytocin. Especially men need it to build attachment and love. I can't see how removing all moments of intimacy will bring 2 people back together. I just can't.

 

I would not do it. I would not take a full blown relationship and regress it to 'dating'. It would harm a relationship by building resentment. What you're suggesting, to me, feels like a punishment to them. Taking away intimacy in a relationship, that has had intimacy for 4 months, is a punishment.

 

This was not a full blown, healthy relationship to start with. It had not evolved at all. Going back into it without seeing whether or not the issues that existed during that time are being addressed and effectively, is only going to cause it to be the same old thing again.

 

It's not about taking away intimacy. It's about not creating and maintaining a false sense of intimacy and starting from the ground up on a healthier foundation. I'm not saying that it should be that way for a long time, just until they are on firmer ground and working on the other aspects of the relationship. It should build anticipation and excitement, not resentment. If he gets resentful of that, there's still a problem.

 

In an established, otherwise healthy relationship that has run into a "snag", using sex as a weapon or tool of manipulation is unacceptable. Using sex that way is not acceptable any time.

 

This would not be about manipulation or punishment. It's about allowing them to become grounded and focused on the big picture they are working toward. She doesn't owe him sex because they did it for 4 months and had been feeling unfulfilled during that time.

 

They aren't resurrecting a relationship. They are building one.

[Gaeta]

She doesn't owe him sex because they did it for 4 months and had been feeling unfulfilled during that time.

 

Funny you see sex as something a woman owes to a man. Women actually need and want sex from the man they love. The punishment would be as much on her as on him.

[Lorenza]

This was not a full blown, healthy relationship to start with. It had not evolved at all. Going back into it without seeing whether or not the issues that existed during that time are being addressed and effectively, is only going to cause it to be the same old thing again.

 

It's not about taking away intimacy. It's about not creating and maintaining a false sense of intimacy and starting from the ground up on a healthier foundation. I'm not saying that it should be that way for a long time, just until they are on firmer ground and working on the other aspects of the relationship. It should build anticipation and excitement, not resentment. If he gets resentful of that, there's still a problem.

 

In an established, otherwise healthy relationship that has run into a "snag", using sex as a weapon or tool of manipulation is unacceptable. Using sex that way is not acceptable any time.

 

This would not be about manipulation or punishment. It's about allowing them to become grounded and focused on the big picture they are working toward. She doesn't owe him sex because they did it for 4 months and had been feeling unfulfilled during that time.

 

They aren't resurrecting a relationship. They are building one.

 

Actually I agree. We jumped into a very intensive relationship very early, meeting mostly at home (first at his place, cause mine wasn't available, then at my place, up to 4-5 times a week). I guess that's what put his overworked mind into withdrawal and I started feeling entitled to his time way too soon. It feels good to slow down but at the same time it doesn't feel like feelings faded.

[katiegrl]

Actually I agree. We jumped into a very intensive relationship very early, meeting mostly at home (first at his place, cause mine wasn't available, then at my place, up to 4-5 times a week). I guess that's what put his overworked mind into withdrawal and I started feeling entitled to his time way too soon. It feels good to slow down but at the same time it doesn't feel like feelings faded.

 

It seems like you're doing just fine Lorenza.... maintaining an open mind, remaining flexible to change, re-assessing and figuring things out, which is fabulous.

 

When getting back together after a short break, it's good to re-assess the RL....but not to re-wind backwards IMO.

 

I don't agree with re-winding backwards. A RL should always be moving forward.

 

Perhaps at a different speed, with more realistic expectations which sounds like exactly what you are doing.

 

Lorenza, in your previous thread, you were concerned he wasn't invested.

 

Well, I think now that you know he is, or are pretty sure he is, you feel better, calmer, more relaxed, more secure, stronger.... less anxious.

 

This is the sense I am getting anyway.... keep it going!!!

 

And keep us posted, we all care.

[Redhead14]

Funny you see sex as something a woman owes to a man. Women actually need and want sex from the man they love. The punishment would be as much on her as on him.

 

 

Your statement that kinda said "well, they were doing it 4 four months already". So what?

 

I said she doesn't owe him sex by virtue of the fact that they did it for 4 months in an unstable, unsatisfying relationship. And, it's not about punishment.

[katiegrl]

Your statement that kinda said "well, they were doing it 4 four months already". So what?

 

I said she doesn't owe him sex by virtue of the fact that they did it for 4 months in an unstable, unsatisfying relationship. And, it's not about punishment.

 

I think it's perfectly fine to maintain their sexual RL. They both need that sexual intimacy to build and grow closer.

 

Taking that away solves NOTHING IMO.

 

What Lorenza is doing is perfect. Scaling back her expectations....she was suffocating the guy and she realizes that now.

[Redhead14]

Actually I agree. We jumped into a very intensive relationship very early, meeting mostly at home (first at his place, cause mine wasn't available, then at my place, up to 4-5 times a week). I guess that's what put his overworked mind into withdrawal and I started feeling entitled to his time way too soon. It feels good to slow down but at the same time it doesn't feel like feelings faded.

 

That is a huge part of this.

 

It feels good to slow down -- Yes, embrace that relief.

 

but at the same time it doesn't feel like feelings faded -- Yep, that's good. But, keep them in check a little and allow them to continue to build gradually. Taking sex off the table for a little bit should build anticipation and excitement, not cause resentment.

 

I started feeling entitled to his time way too soon. -- Exactly. It made you feel as though you were farther along stage wise in the relationship. You weren't really at this point yet -- you were ahead.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Redhead14

[katiegrl]

 

Taking sex off the table for a little bit should build anticipation and excitement, not cause resentment.

 

 

Lorenza, JMO but if you take sex off the table (which obviously would be YOUR idea, not his)....he is going to feel manipulated.

 

I realize that is not RH's intention in suggesting why you do it....but it's important to be cognizant of how the other person interprets whatever new behavior your are proposing. And suddenly taking sex off the table is a doozie!!

 

You have a wonderful sexual relationship, there is no reason why that needs to stop now.

 

Again, if you propose taking sex off the table to him, HE is going to feel manipulated and YES, resentment.

 

It will confuse him.... don't do it.

 

Things are good now, you have realized the error of your ways, and scaling back your expectations.... stay this course for awhile, continue to re-assess and play it out. Naturally and organically.

 

Good luck!

[Lorenza]

I mean it would be quite unnatural to stop having sex, since we're both very sexual and perfectly compatible in that sphere, but with less meetings there's naturally less sex and more anticipation in between of times. I don't think I could put it off the table completely, would go mad just seeing him (and he's a hot looking fellow!)

[katiegrl]

I mean it would be quite unnatural to stop having sex, since we're both very sexual and perfectly compatible in that sphere, but with less meetings there's naturally less sex and more anticipation in between of times. I don't think I could put it off the table completely, would go mad just seeing him (and he's a hot looking fellow!)

 

Bolded -- that is exactly what I meant by naturally.

 

The sex is being scaled back naturally by virtue of your spending less time together.

 

As opposed to intentionally scaling it back as some sort of strategy to move the RL in the direction you ultimately want it to go.

 

Expecting less and thus spending less time together... will give you both a chance to miss each other, and one more thing Lorenza and I have learned this myself in my own relationships.

 

Once you learn to let go of unrealistic expectations, and become less needy (for lack of a better word) and more independent yourself.... you might find his desire to give you more increasing!

 

You expect LESS....demand LESS.....you often times receive MORE.

 

At least I have in my own relationships.

Edited February 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[Lorenza]

Hey guys!

 

Me and my boyfriend spent a whole weekend together, it was really nice and we did a lot of fun things. Today he was overloaded with his work again so he didn't text me much, like he did the whole previous week, however I'm learning to deal with it calmly. I feel anxious to some extent, because he was pretty attentive lately and it could feel like a big difference compared to today, but I wasn't bothering him and instead focused on my own stuff and started seriously preparing for my entrance exams in May. He did get back to me later to give me an update on his work and everything just seems normal, except that he was stressed out.

 

It's still a long way to an anxiety-free me but I really want to learn to not depend on a boyfriend emotionally. I came up with a little mantra for myself that's supposed to remind me who I am and where I'm headed, despite how others are to me.

[Lady2163]

I'm a bit late to the party and I didn't read all the posts.

 

There's a great book called He's Just Not that Into You. It has become my mantra.

 

If a man is really into you, it may be tough to get him to stop calling and texting you. They don't blow off phone calls or texts. They don't fall asleep, they don't forget. Because they are thinking about you (okay, and sex) many times a day.

 

Calling a woman back promptly has been an issue now for 20 plus years. Not calling back or specifically limiting time (my last boyfriend would call me and say, "you have five minutes and then I'm going to bed"). That was every day, I'd only get like five minutes of his time. It wasn't enough. It was soul sucking and damaging.

 

He wasn't that into me. I can say that now, it has been 13 years. I couldn't accept it then. The two men before him also used the phone as a weapon. Three asshats in a row.

 

I may get flamed for this, but in my last 'relationship' I was an OW. I put that in quotes because he wasn't a boyfriend. Now, before you think I'm a husband stealing hussy and have nothing to offer, hear me out, please.

 

One major wrinkle when you are associating with someone unavailable is there are communication blackouts and you can't always talk to him every minute of every day. The MM was also a bit scatterbrained and juggled a lot at work. He would forget that I called. I have a life, too and I would call or text every couple of hours. He didn't get irritated, he got proactive. If I called him at 800 and he didn't answer, I'd immediately get a text: In meeting, call at 10:00. Or something like: I will text or call at 10:00. It kept me from blowing up his phone or waiting for him to call.

 

And that is what I told him. It was words to the effect that because communication was limited, he was screwing up my day by not letting me know when he was available. I'd avoid lunch with people just in case. It also made us ask the other one, "What are you doing tomorrow, what is your day like?" Etc.

 

I became a better communicator of my needs and he was able to understand where I was coming from and what it was doing. If he was supposed to call at 1000 and didn't, I might send him a text to nudge him and say, "waiting on you before I go do xxxxxx

 

Because I would say before him I was also neurotic about communication. It boils down to expressing your wants and also trust. I trusted the MM to not screw around with my day by playing some game and to contact me when he said he would.

 

So I realize the scenario in which this occurred may be distasteful to you, but I'd encourage you to incorporate some of that with your boyfriend. I'm assuming you have a life, you have times of the day where you'd rather not talk - working out of favorite TV show. It's a great dialogue starter to ask the person what they're doing, what they're working on, what is their schedule, how was that meeting, etc. It does help if there is a dialogue and he throw the questions back to you.

 

Good luck. His actions will show you if you can trust him to be communicative when he says he can.

[Gaeta]

It's still a long way to an anxiety-free me but I really want to learn to not depend on a boyfriend emotionally. I came up with a little mantra for myself that's supposed to remind me who I am and where I'm headed, despite how others are to me.

 

He is returning to his old ways and you're returning to your old ways.

 

You spent the weekend together you don't need to hear from him 10 times today. Men need a bit of space after a weekend of togetherness. You should be busy with cleaning, laundry, shaving your legs, all of those things you didn't get to do while he was with you.

 

As for not depending on your boyfriend emotionally, well, being in a relationship is about filling each other's love and emotion needs. You cannot NOT depend on him for your relationship needs but you need to find a healthy balance.

[Lorenza]

What I meant with the last post is everything seems way better now and I'm learning to deal with my anxietys and focusing on me, besides my boyfriend is also more aware of things. It was supposed to be a positive note that it's going good, but seems like people here crave the drama and keeping posting here won't bring any good after all and im better off write a journal insteas, so this will be my last post in this thread. Thanks all posters!

[Gaeta]

What I meant with the last post is everything seems way better now and I'm learning to deal with my anxietys and focusing on me, besides my boyfriend is also more aware of things. It was supposed to be a positive note that it's going good, but seems like people here crave the drama and keeping posting here won't bring any good after all and im better off write a journal insteas, so this will be my last post in this thread. Thanks all posters!

 

It was a post about you waiting after his text and feeling anxious, again.

 

It was about him being busy and being 'stressed out' when he gets back to you, again.

 

It was about you ignoring your emotional needs, again.

[Fruitee]

One nice week. Then back to business as usual. Will continue like that forever.