Jabron1 Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 I can only really judge this guy on my own experience and guess what he's up to. So, he touched her arse. But, he did it tentatively. I think he wanted to be more expressive with you, but nerves got to him. Then when you sent him those texts, rather than own what he did, he backed down and started to feel ashamed of his sexuality. He's saying whatever he thinks you want to hear. A lot of my friends are like this, and you can see why with all the aggravation from this thread. He should have owned what he did. I've been in the same situation as that guy, and I just told my date that I'm a man and that I'm attracted to her. Then I cooled things down. Next time they'll be more receptive and even disappointed if I don't. Being a gentleman is about controlling the sex-drive, and knowing how much to push and when. I think the OP might have given this guy a knock to his confidence. 2
elaine567 Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 Well he is either highly embarrassed with the thought that the OP now thinks he is some sort of a sleazy groper, or he was looking for something, didn't get the reaction he wanted when he tapped her butt, and is now trying to get first date sex elsewhere. I doubt we'll ever find out now. The OP didn't like it, she felt uncomfortable, she called him out on it, as he crossed her personal boundaries Maybe she should have put up with it, in order to see him again but is not setting personal boundaries a good thing in a relationship or is anything considered "acceptable" as long as that second date is in the bag? He basically invaded her personal space without any real invitation here. 1
katiegrl Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Well he is either highly embarrassed with the thought that the OP now thinks he is some sort of a sleazy groper, or he was looking for something, didn't get the reaction he wanted when he tapped her butt, and is now trying to get first date sex elsewhere. I doubt we'll ever find out now. The OP didn't like it, she felt uncomfortable, she called him out on it, as he crossed her personal boundaries Maybe she should have put up with it, in order to see him again but is not setting personal boundaries a good thing in a relationship or is anything considered "acceptable" as long as that second date is in the bag? He basically invaded her personal space without any real invitation here. Elaine I agree. We all have personal boundaries and if he crossed one of hers, then she has every right to speak up about it.... which she did. However, there is a way to speak up about it without sounding defensive and accusatory. This is what she said to him AFTER he had already apologized for offending her: >>"Ok it kinda was too soon for me, that's why; i never really had a guy do that, so I kinda felt weird. If you're looking for a quick hookup, i'd like to know so i dont waste my time. If so, theres other chicks for that, I'm not one of em, you know"? A little much don't you think? Essentially accusing him of wanting a "quick hook up" with her ? (Which is how it sounds.) There are other chicks for that....blah blah? I mean really? All that because he lightly touched her butt for a second after kissing? Edited February 9, 2016 by katiegrl
Ami1uwant Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 Aww I feel so stupid now. I blew it even after trying so hard not to mess up my chances. Maybe psychologically I gave him a bad emotion and now he doesnt want to reach out. I keep beating myself up for this. Why'd I even have to say the second part you know? I don't want to chase him, I want to know if he likes me enough to come around. You blew it..... You had An issue with it. You said something twice. He touched it...that doesn't mean he was trying to sleep with you that night.
elaine567 Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 I agree, Katie, it was a bit heavy handed and it didn't leave a lot of room for his apology. By her second sentence, it appeared he was already damned to hell in her book and there is no going back from that, but maybe that was the OPs intention in the heat of the moment. In hindsight we can see things differently. 2
Robratory Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 Because he lightly touched her butt for a SECOND, for which he apologized when he realized it offended her? They even kissed! I see nothing wrong with what he did -- in fact, that's what people do when they're attracted to each other. They lightly touch each other, especially while kissing! I view that as a sign of endearment, nothing overtly sexual or untoward. It doesn't necessarily mean they want to jump into bed immediately. Well, from my point of view, it's not the duration of the touch nor whether there was an apology or not. A deliberate touch on the butt is definitely sexual. It's not like a touch on the arm or even a hug. Those things are not necessarily sexual, but a touch on the butt is. And I don't think a kiss means "you can touch my butt now." Hold my hands, put your arms around me, sure, but not the butt. From a guy's point of view, I see it as juvenile behavior. "ZOMG, like, I totally touched her butt!" I see it as copping a feel, not as an appropriate caress in the context. And I think people generally agree. This chart shows our taboo zones according to who the toucher is. I'd classify this first date, even with the kiss, as "acquaintance," not "partner." 1
frus69 Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 I agree, Katie, it was a bit heavy handed and it didn't leave a lot of room for his apology. By her second sentence, it appeared he was already damned to hell in her book and there is no going back from that, but maybe that was the OPs intention in the heat of the moment. In hindsight we can see things differently. It feels to me it wasn't her intention to damn him to hell it wasn't her intention to scare him away, or shame him away. But she did anyway. I still this she did just a tad too far. I'd feel uncomfortable if I were him. Oh well, I hope after they cool down he will reach out again.
Author giggik Posted February 9, 2016 Author Posted February 9, 2016 You blew it..... You had An issue with it. You said something twice. He touched it...that doesn't mean he was trying to sleep with you that night. To me, it's not that I thought he was trying to sleep that night with me, it's that guys that touch a girl's ass on the first date, typically typically don't respect the girl. If he's trying to court me, it makes me feel like "How did he not think that this would be kinda inappropriate?" Then the next thought is, "Does this guy have no intention to build a relationship?" And that's when I thought that I should just ask him. But in hindsight, i feel so stupid. I wish I never did it. I admit, I was kind of heated and tipsy. I also felt as though if I never said anything, that he would think I am the type of girl who is insecure enough to let a man do whatever he wants. Ugh, I should have not said the 2nd part. 1
Jabron1 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Well he is either highly embarrassed with the thought that the OP now thinks he is some sort of a sleazy groper, or he was looking for something, didn't get the reaction he wanted when he tapped her butt, and is now trying to get first date sex elsewhere. I doubt we'll ever find out now. The OP didn't like it, she felt uncomfortable, she called him out on it, as he crossed her personal boundaries Maybe she should have put up with it, in order to see him again but is not setting personal boundaries a good thing in a relationship or is anything considered "acceptable" as long as that second date is in the bag? He basically invaded her personal space without any real invitation here. It's an awkward situation, isn't it? It needn't be, if he'd have just owned his actions. The guy isn't a sleaze, and the girl isn't a prude. The girl is waiting for the guy to lead, but he's following her lead after she just laid down the law on him. I think the guys not sure what his next move should be. I think there's clear attraction there, he was still replying to those texts after all, but he probably feels like he's lost control of this situation.
Robratory Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 White Knight alert! Are you a virgin or something? You don't seem to understand that men have to escalate and take risks. Otherwise nothing would happen, and all the women who eventually want to have sex (yeah, women actually want to have sex; shocking behaviour, I know!) with a real man will be disappointed. What do you expect him to do? Ask permission (or 'consent') every time he touches her? I hope no blokes on here are actually weak enough to listen to this rubbish. Oh, I'd expect him to escalate, but going for the butt on a first date is not escalating. It's inappropriate, in my opinion, and the fact that the woman did not appreciate it makes me stick to the opinion. In answer to your question, no, I'm not a virgin. Going by the statistics, I've gotten far more than my fair share of sex, though of course, in my youth, I always thought everyone else was getting more than me. Turns out they weren't. By the way, I'm kinda new here too, and I had to learn the hard way that Love Shack really frowns on uncivil behavior. Disagreement is fine, but mockery and hostile rhetorical questions are not. I was pretty embarrassed when William had to write me a note reminding me of forum etiquette. 1
Robratory Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 To me, it's not that I thought he was trying to sleep that night with me, it's that guys that touch a girl's ass on the first date, typically typically don't respect the girl. Again I agree with you. But the mob doesn't. Run, I'll hold them back as long as I can.
testmeasure Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 There are to things in play here: (1) Whether you are ok with that behavior (2) Whether he just wanted a hookup Where he stands: - He is clearly ok with his behavior - He claims he wants more than a hookup Where you stand: - It's not really clear whether you're ok with his behavior - It's clear you don't want a hookup His understanding of your position on (1) is probably your problem. It's not clear whether you called out his behavior only because it raised the question of a hookup, or whether once that was clarified you still have a problem with his behavior. "Ok it kinda was too soon for me" This makes it sound like you have a problem with his behavior independent of just wanting to rule out a hookup. That puts him in a position where he might be nervous about his behavior on a 2nd date. Dating is nervous enough as it is. If you were really ok with his behavior, and just wanted to rule out a hookup, it might help to clarify that. That way he doesn't have to feel nervous about his behavior if you go out again. If you really did want him to back off, slow down, or at least be a little nervous about what your reaction might be if he continued, and he's not contacting you because of that, that's probably a good thing. . 1
katiegrl Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 OP....maybe if you explained in further detail exactly how he touched it, it would clarify things better. You say he didn't "grab" it....so what was it? Did he lightly brush his hand against it? Tap it lightly, pat it? Squeeze it? I assume you had your clothes on? I am trying to picture it...and honestly, unless he blatantly grabbed it or squeezed it.... I don't quite see the big deal. Can you clarify? I would really like to understand your position better. I mean it sounds like he was very attracted to you...which is a GOOD thing. That said, if you believe he crossed a line, you're entitled to that....but again if you could clarify, it would be helpful. Tnx!
Jabron1 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Oh, I'd expect him to escalate, but going for the butt on a first date is not escalating. It's inappropriate, in my opinion There's no script for a first date. Life would be boring if we went around being 'appropriate' all the time. Dating is meant to be fun. the fact that the woman did not appreciate it makes me stick to the opinion. Like I said before, men take risks. We get knocked back, but it's important to roll off rejection, keep smiling, and try again. Touching someone's arse on a date is not an egregious sin that's worth demonizing someone for. And it's not an issue of disrespect either. Some of the strongest willed women that I've went out with loved me teasing them in this manner. Women don't need protecting from themselves like they are helpless angels, mate. She still wants to see him! By the way, I'm kinda new here too, and I had to learn the hard way that Love Shack really frowns on uncivil behavior. Disagreement is fine, but mockery and hostile rhetorical questions are not. Don't get in a strop. You're a very serious person, and i'm a very direct person. But, I'm sure we'll get along just fine. 1
Author giggik Posted February 10, 2016 Author Posted February 10, 2016 OP....maybe if you explained in further detail exactly how he touched it, it would clarify things better. You say he didn't "grab" it....so what was it? Did he lightly brush his hand against it? Tap it lightly, pat it? Squeeze it? I assume you had your clothes on? I am trying to picture it...and honestly, unless he blatantly grabbed it or squeezed it.... I don't quite see the big deal. Can you clarify? I would really like to understand your position better. I mean it sounds like he was very attracted to you...which is a GOOD thing. That said, if you believe he crossed a line, you're entitled to that....but again if you could clarify, it would be helpful. Tnx! Thanks Katie for your advice Well, he was talking to me while we were sitting at the bar, and i dont even remember what he was saying, but he consciously made an effort to reach back at my butt, open palm, put his hand on my butt, for a quick moment. The second time, we were waiting for the valet man to bring the car, we kissed while waiting. We stood there, his hand around my waist, and as soon as the car came, he kinda signaled a "lets go" nonverbally, by tapping my butt, sort of like you would a football player, but mich softer. But the nonverbal body language of it was like a "Lets go!" type "slap". It wasnt hard enough to be considered a slap. But in my experience, I only see that type of things between gf/bf.
katiegrl Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Thanks Katie for your advice Well, he was talking to me while we were sitting at the bar, and i dont even remember what he was saying, but he consciously made an effort to reach back at my butt, open palm, put his hand on my butt, for a quick moment. The second time, we were waiting for the valet man to bring the car, we kissed while waiting. We stood there, his hand around my waist, and as soon as the car came, he kinda signaled a "lets go" nonverbally, by tapping my butt, sort of like you would a football player, but mich softer. But the nonverbal body language of it was like a "Lets go!" type "slap". It wasnt hard enough to be considered a slap. But in my experience, I only see that type of things between gf/bf. Thx for clarifying -- the first time (while sitting at the bar), I would have found that a bit offensive too! I mean why would he do that -- it seems so awkward. I mean, to consciously reach back and touch your butt while you're sitting at the bar? That was no accident. The second time, I would not be offended, but in all honesty I would not have liked it -- that kind of slap on the butt as a "come on honey, let's go," type of thing is rather presumptuous IMO. Thank you for clarifying! I still think your respond was a bit over the top and heavy handed, but I DO understand why it would have bothered you. 1
truth_seeker Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Well, he was talking to me while we were sitting at the bar, and i dont even remember what he was saying, but he consciously made an effort to reach back at my butt, open palm, put his hand on my butt, for a quick moment. The second time, we were waiting for the valet man to bring the car, we kissed while waiting. We stood there, his hand around my waist, and as soon as the car came, he kinda signaled a "lets go" nonverbally, by tapping my butt, sort of like you would a football player, but mich softer. But the nonverbal body language of it was like a "Lets go!" type "slap". It wasnt hard enough to be considered a slap. But in my experience, I only see that type of things between gf/bf. This guy is a scumbag. He's all about tapping that ass... 3
IronZ Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 He probably thought you were overly sensitive. That's how it comes across to me.
Author giggik Posted February 10, 2016 Author Posted February 10, 2016 Thx for clarifying -- the first time (while sitting at the bar), I would have found that a bit offensive too! I mean why would he do that -- it seems so awkward. I mean, to consciously reach back and touch your butt while you're sitting at the bar? That was no accident. The second time, I would not be offended, but in all honesty I would not have liked it -- that kind of slap on the butt as a "come on honey, let's go," type of thing is rather presumptuous IMO. Thank you for clarifying! I still think your respond was a bit over the top and heavy handed, but I DO understand why it would have bothered you. I feel so bad. Do u think if he liked me he would reach out again?
Rejected Rosebud Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I feel so bad. Do u think if he liked me he would reach out again? Don't feel bad. You didn't like what he did and you let him know it. He should probably date girls who enjoy butt touching on the first date, while you will be happier with guys who don't. It does sound rather out of the boundaries of normal "touchy feely" dating behavior. I wouldn't have liked it either. 4
Jabron1 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I feel so bad. Do u think if he liked me he would reach out again? Yeah. It would be really pathetic if he didn't. 1
katiegrl Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Don't feel bad. You didn't like what he did and you let him know it. He should probably date girls who enjoy butt touching on the first date, while you will be happier with guys who don't. It does sound rather out of the boundaries of normal "touchy feely" dating behavior. I wouldn't have liked it either. After further clarification, I agree with RR. In fact, I would be so turned off, I would be the one NOT to want a second date. But this isn't about me, it's about OP. So, that said, just sit tight. If he likes you, he will reach out again, it's only been three days. I have learned that when a man is really into me, I can do almost NO wrong in his eyes. If he thinks he screwed up somehow....he will try harder next time. If this guy thinks he screwed up...he will call again, take you out and behave like a gentleman next time. JMO 2
truth_seeker Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Hello! You're on a first date with this guy and he's grabbing your ass at the bar... then on the street tapping it... He's all about doing you and not giving a damn about your feelings. You did the right thing to tell him how you felt about his behavior which told him loud and clear that you won't be an easy conquest. You won't hear from him again, if you're lucky. If he contacts you again, then he wants to see if he can do it again and get you in bed. He's a a bad guy. End of discussion. 1
jen1447 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 To me, it's not that I thought he was trying to sleep that night with me, it's that guys that touch a girl's ass on the first date, typically typically don't respect the girl. If he's trying to court me, it makes me feel like "How did he not think that this would be kinda inappropriate?" Then the next thought is, "Does this guy have no intention to build a relationship?" And that's when I thought that I should just ask him. But in hindsight, i feel so stupid. I wish I never did it. I admit, I was kind of heated and tipsy. I also felt as though if I never said anything, that he would think I am the type of girl who is insecure enough to let a man do whatever he wants. Ugh, I should have not said the 2nd part. There's no point in agonizing over this hon. You get to not like whatever you don't like and you're entitled to do sth about it if you want, and you should even be admired for standing up for yourself. I think all that probably went wrong here is you pushed correcting him a bit far. That means you can just live and learn if you don't think it's on you to fix it - and that wouldn't be an entirely negative takeaway - or reach out to the guy and try to do sth about it. Personally I'd suggest the second at this point just bc you seem predisposed to agonizing over it and doing sth will resolve that sense of torment one way or the other. But please stop beating yourself up. It really isn't that big a deal. 2
Author giggik Posted February 10, 2016 Author Posted February 10, 2016 There's no point in agonizing over this hon. You get to not like whatever you don't like and you're entitled to do sth about it if you want, and you should even be admired for standing up for yourself. I think all that probably went wrong here is you pushed correcting him a bit far. That means you can just live and learn if you don't think it's on you to fix it - and that wouldn't be an entirely negative takeaway - or reach out to the guy and try to do sth about it. Personally I'd suggest the second at this point just bc you seem predisposed to agonizing over it and doing sth will resolve that sense of torment one way or the other. But please stop beating yourself up. It really isn't that big a deal. Thanks for your advice Jen!!! And thanks everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it. I think I learned a lot from this.
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