In a rut 😔

[PickledHead]

No one specific in mind - I get asked out enough that I know I will have options, it's just taking them. I might just be clear from the off I'm not looking for anything serious and see how that goes

 

SandyLee - it's not a double betrayal. I met him and we clicked personality wise and would see each other regularly through our social circles and we just became really good friends. We were both told that it was obvious there was something there but we brushed it off as were convinced we were just friends and then one thing led to another

 

And yes if discovered he may agree to NC but it won't happen

[minimariah]

No one specific in mind - I get asked out enough that I know I will have options, it's just taking them. I might just be clear from the off I'm not looking for anything serious and see how that goes

 

yup; just go out, meet new people, accept dates & see how it goes.

 

i do have more questions () - i assume your MM knows about your dating plans and you mentioned earlier it was hard for you to continue dating because he wasn't comfortable with it and you obviously don't want to hurt him - so will that happen again this time? how will you deal with the guilt that you most likely will feel?

[PickledHead]

I really don't know minimariah - I'm going to have to cross that bridge when I come to it. It affected him bad last time when I went on a date, he couldn't get it out of his head. He isn't forthcoming with telling me how he feels with regards to it as he feels he has no right (as it's hypocritical)

 

I will be honest with him - whilst I am only going out casual then he will have to accept it. If I ever Get to the point where it may get physical with someone - I will end with MM before I do. It wouldn't be right to any of us otherwise

[minimariah]

got it! well, nothing more i could say -- good luck, Pickled!

update us on the situation if you'll feel comfortable to do so.

[Furious]

1 - I know our relationship, I know their relationship and I know him. It's not wishful thinking, he just wouldn't.

 

We have ways to communicate that would never be known and so there is a number of ways for him to remain in contact (even if reduced).

 

When this ends it will be because I make that decision. A DDay would force my hand to stop it, but it wouldn't stop him.

 

 

2 - he has never strayed, I know his entire past down to every kiss.

 

I know the initial shock of every one of his friends that he is doing what he is doing because he is the last person they would have expected it from. I know the type of person he is and how he interacts with women and it a definate he has never put a foot out of place.

 

 

3 -maybe I should change the can't to won't. It may be crumbs I am getting but I get more from him then a lot of people i see in open 'happy' relationships. He is there for me whenever I need him for whatever reason. I am very independent and so would never accept any financial gain from him But aside from that he is the first person I would turn to for anything.

 

I'm not trying to convince myself that I have to continue. I am overall happy. I know if I had him full time I would be happier but it's not an option so I don't think about it. I am just conscious that the day will come where this is not enough for me and I do want more and I am trying to prepare myself for that.

 

 

There's a paradox in your 3 points, and it's odd how you claim to have a complete knowledge of the OM and his sincerity which contrasts with "we have ways to communicate that will never be known and so there is number of ways to remain in contact ( even if reduced). The glaring red light is that you fail to recognize is that your MM has shown you he is deceptive, and instead of seeing it for what it is you may be more naive than you care to admit.

 

In a nutshell, you know where you stand, you have said you will not ruin his life and it's paramount you remain a secret. How does that compute, how is being a cause for someone's downfall qualify as to your value.

 

On the one had you defend your specialness to MM, and yet you are buying that it will eventually end and this affair has no future. You are trapped but in denial that you hold the cards. The only one who really holds the cards is MM.

 

You flirt with the idea of dating, that in some way it gives you power to walk away. In a way it shows you are weak, and in a subconscious way you may be looking for a new man to rescue you from you. The harsh truth is you're not valuing yourself and you look for your value in an external way.

 

I believe the rut you're in refusing to be your own champion, unless and until you genuinely love yourself. The independence you claim to have is an illusion, that's the true rut you're in.

 

i see a woman who is scarred, who is feigning independence, but is terrified of true intimacy.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Furious

[PickledHead]

I'm not looking for anyone to rescue me at all! Also I'm not sure where I have defended my specialness to him. I have consciously made a point not to write about any claims of his feelings. All I have said is he won't go NC and won't end it (unless something drastic happens of course) that doesn't necessarily mean I'm special and u certainly don't defend that. I am just stating how it is

 

The man is havin an affair, of course he is deceptive!! No great eye opener there I'm afraid.

 

I also don't know where I am in denial?? I know the intricacies of our relationship and I know in terms of it ending I hold the cards. If things change in the future then that may change but I can't predict the future and speak of the current situation. I said from the start this has no future. If there was then I wouldn't be here asking for advice

 

My independence is nt feigned in the slightest however u could be right on the terrified of true intimacy part. That has been me always.

[Furious]

I'm not looking for anyone to rescue me at all! Also I'm not sure where I have defended my specialness to him. I have consciously made a point not to write about any claims of his feelings. All I have said is he won't go NC and won't end it (unless something drastic happens of course) that doesn't necessarily mean I'm special and u certainly don't defend that. I am just stating how it is

 

The man is havin an affair, of course he is deceptive!! No great eye opener there I'm afraid.

 

I also don't know where I am in denial?? I know the intricacies of our relationship and I know in terms of it ending I hold the cards. If things change in the future then that may change but I can't predict the future and speak of the current situation. I said from the start this has no future. If there was then I wouldn't be here asking for advice

 

My independence is nt feigned in the slightest however u could be right on the terrified of true intimacy part. That has been me always.

 

 

 

Once again you're speaking in paradox. The irony is you are living your life in the confines of an affair, that's not being being independent , but rather a confined compartment that for a short period of time can appear to satisfy short term needs. The rut you're in is self induced.

 

A mature and self evolved woman would see that "dating" while entwined in an affair is both unfair to you and any prospective mate. It's obvious that you use your card to date as a passive aggressive tool to get a reaction from your MM, (and I doubt you will admit it).

 

In a way your both playing the game, tit for tat, a volley of manipulation games.

 

The irony is you ask for advice but yet reject advice and insist you are in control.

 

You've heard from all sides, and many former OW who have reached out to you and sincerely offered you heartfelt understanding and advice but you continue to disregard it.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Furious

[PickledHead]

You have got me so wrong! I do not use dating as a tool, quite the opposite. I have purposely not dated recently because it would hurt him amd also because my heart isn't in it, which I'm trying to work around. This is not a game to me in any way and the last thing I want to do is hurt him. Yes it is potentially unfair to any date I go on too which is what my initial predicament was. He plays no games with me either so tit for tat it is not.

 

 

I came for advice on a specific area and have received some really good advice which I have took on board. Different people have said different things and I will consider it all.

 

I didn't come for advice on my relationship with MM and so whilst I appreciate the comments and thoughts I have received around that (I have found it insightful) I was open from the start that this is something I am not looking to end (can't/ won't/ weak/ deluded) so you can see it as disregarding it but it wasn't my intention on joining this forum.

 

Mature and self evolved woman?? Really not sure where I claimed I was that either to be honest!

I said I was independent which I am, matbe we have different definitions on what independent is

Edited February 10, 2016 by PickledHead

[Furious]

Hi all,

 

I've lurked here for some time and have finally braved the courage to join and hope to get some advice

 

My background... Been OW for 18 months (I am single)! It wasn't what either of us went looking for (but when is it). Unfortunately, he is the love of my life. Started off as friends, turned physical and has been ever since.

 

We are in contact all day, everyday. We see each other at least once a day. Have nights out, he knows my friends and family! I know his friends, they are aware of situation. We are told constantly we should be together and in another world maybe but it won't happen for a variety of reasons

 

So my predicament - I'm not stupid (I'm sure I will get some people question that statement), I know I need to stop but I can't. I feel I need to move on but it's so hard... I know no one will ever compare. I have offers for people to take me out on a regular basis but I can't do it to them. How do I try and get to know someone new when I can't tell them the truth about my life??

 

My MM knows he holds me back and hates it, he would never stop me from trying to move on as he knows I deserve more than he can give me although I know the thought of me even going on a date guts him.

 

How do people play this - how do I meet someone else when I am totally besotted with someone! I know that the ideal route would be go NC without thinking about moving on to anyone else anytime soon but I physically cannot go NC. We have the best time all the time and whilst our time apart hurts like crazy, it's not enough that I could beat it.

 

So in a nutshell, I can't move on whilst with him and can't give him up yet!! Do I just resign myself that this is my life?

 

 

 

 

Your opening post says it all.

 

 

Dating other men "guts" your MM, (and though you will deny it)' gives you a passive aggressive form of satisfaction in turning the table, otherwise you wouldn't tell him you date or consider dating if your purpose was to not subject a sly hit on his own hypocrisy.

 

These are games, you're both playing games, and that's the rut you're in.

 

It's understandable that at this point you cannot see the trees because the forest is blocking the way.

[PickledHead]

Definately not! When I last went on a date, which was quite some time ago, I told him purely because I wanted to be honest with him. It wasn't even a date as such, just went for a casual drink. I didn't want to bump into him, I didn't want someone to tell him and I didn't want for me to have to ignore him should he contact me during the evening.

 

seeing his face at the time and the next day when my phone rang from the date was horrible. It is something I would rather not repeat and has been the main reason I haven't since then

 

Please don't tell me that I tell him to get some kind of pleasure as you couldn't be further from the truth!! I am quite honest in my replies, if you choose not to believe me so be it. Neither of us plays games in any way and I'm not sure how you have read that from any of my posts

[Furious]

Definately not! When I last went on a date, which was quite some time ago, I told him purely because I wanted to be honest with him. It wasn't even a date as such, just went for a casual drink. I didn't want to bump into him, I didn't want someone to tell him and I didn't want for me to have to ignore him should he contact me during the evening.

 

seeing his face at the time and the next day when my phone rang from the date was horrible. It is something I would rather not repeat and has been the main reason I haven't since then

 

Please don't tell me that I tell him to get some kind of pleasure as you couldn't be further from the truth!! I am quite honest in my replies, if you choose not to believe me so be it. Neither of us plays games in any way and I'm not sure how you have read that from any of my posts

 

You get a reaction from being "honest" with MM about dating single men. The irony is if your MM gave you a high five and was truly happy that you move on from him you'd be bruised by that kind of reaction. The irony is, you've said MM claims to not want to hold you back from finding a single mate, but his sad and jealous reaction just reinforces the manipulation you both are conducting.

 

He has a wife he will not divorce. You have said that you are a secret that will destroy his life. You want to move on, date, and know deep down you don't want to waste your youth on being an OW and throw the chance to find a real out in the open relationship.

 

Big deal if it's your MM's first affair or his tenth affair, big deal you have secret communications set up to go further underground if there's a d-day. That's not love, it's just more of the same dead end.

 

Being with a cheater who offers you no future does not equate to being an independent woman. An independent woman is true to herself.

[PickledHead]

You may see it as manipulation I don't!! we're both damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

Out of curiosity what way could he react that wouldn't be seen as manipulation? And would I be playing less games if I were to sneak about on dates without saying?

 

I'm not going to see people behind his back and then lie to his face about where I have been and who with! I have not said I am a secret that will ruin his life either - I have said if he left it would be!!

 

I said about it bein his first A in response to a question from another poster, not as a declaration of love!! We don't have lines of communication incase of a DDay, we just have a lot of ways in which we do communicate and as a result. Means of contact is always viable! Again it wasn't as a declaration of any love. So your 'big deal' remarks are quite patronising since they are things I have posted in reply to other people

 

And As suspected, we have different definitions of independent

[Gigi2015]

You may see it as manipulation I don't!! we're both damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

Out of curiosity what way could he react that wouldn't be seen as manipulation? And would I be playing less games if I were to sneak about on dates without saying?

 

I'm not going to see people behind his back and then lie to his face about where I have been and who with! I have not said I am a secret that will ruin his life either - I have said if he left it would be!!

 

I said about it bein his first A in response to a question from another poster, not as a declaration of love!! We don't have lines of communication incase of a DDay, we just have a lot of ways in which we do communicate and as a result. Means of contact is always viable! Again it wasn't as a declaration of any love. So your 'big deal' remarks are quite patronising since they are things I have posted in reply to other people

 

And As suspected, we have different definitions of independent

 

If you're so happy and complacent in your situation that WHY did you name the thread "I'm in a rut?". Clearly people with lots of experience have tried to help....but you get defensive and retreat to "affair bubble". But--know this will be clarified....it always comes..it always happens in due time.

[PickledHead]

Happy yes, wouldn't go as far as complacent!

 

The title is because I do feel in a rut. The last line of my opening post summed it up

 

I Won't give up MM yet and can't seem to move on whilst he is on scene! Therefore I feel like I'm in a rut

 

I don't mean to be defensive - I can't express enough how grateful I am for the replies I have had!! If I had wanted to get advice on the A itself I would have come on and gone into a lot more detail. I didn't and therefore i feel like I'm getting told how to proceed with somethjng I haven't really touched on.

 

So apologies if it seems that way - it's not intended

[sandylee1]

 

I was open from the start that this is something I am not looking to end (can't/ won't/ weak/ deluded) so you can see it as disregarding it but it wasn't my intention on joining this forum.

 

--------***************************-------

If you're not looking to end it as stated above..then just carry on in the affair. Some women are mistresses for decades or until death parts them and they are satisfied with the arrangement. You said you're very happy.

 

I must have misunderstood as I thought you wanted to meet other guys so you could end it.

[PickledHead]

SandyLee I am happy... Right now!! but I don't want to be someone who wakes up years down the line and wonders what on earth I was doing. I don't want to give him up but I do want to move on at some point as, quite rightly pointed out, this is a dead end.

 

That's why it's a rut and that is why my head is pickled.

[Hip Pocket]

Once again you're speaking in paradox. The irony is you are living your life in the confines of an affair, that's not being being independent , but rather a confined compartment that for a short period of time can appear to satisfy short term needs. The rut you're in is self induced.

 

A mature and self evolved woman would see that "dating" while entwined in an affair is both unfair to you and any prospective mate. It's obvious that you use your card to date as a passive aggressive tool to get a reaction from your MM, (and I doubt you will admit it).

 

In a way your both playing the game, tit for tat, a volley of manipulation games.

 

The irony is you ask for advice but yet reject advice and insist you are in control.

 

You've heard from all sides, and many former OW who have reached out to you and sincerely offered you heartfelt understanding and advice but you continue to disregard it.

 

The rut she is in is self-induced? Really?

 

How is being independent stricken as false simply because she is in an AR? In your estimation does M make a woman independent? IME a woman's independence has nothing to do with her R status.

 

And a mature woman dates whoever she wants to date regardless if she's in a R or not. Maturity has nothing to do with playing the field or exercising your options. Some immature people try to play, that's for sure, but don't play well. I think PH is typing her thoughts to get clarity; hence the rut, but she's being challenged instead on her morals and maturity which have nothing to do with whom she chooses to date.

 

Communicating your needs to your MM does not mean you are being passive-aggressive PickledHead, but using that to goad him would be but I think you already know the difference. MM and I split up for a while after a Dday and I dated someone else. Once MM came back I didn't tell him for a long time because I thought it would hurt him. Then came the day that he wanted to try working on his M again, something he regrets now but had to try one last time, so I snapped and said great, then I'll go ahead and find another boyfriend like I did the last time we split up. Boy was he surprised! And hurt. And torn. I didn't mean to hurt him but it came out with my shock at his announcement. And he needed to know that there are consequences, natural reactions, to unexpected decisions. He really didn't want me dating others but he had no choice if he wanted to work on his M. I don't want to t/j so I'll stop my story there but in the end my MM is glad to know the truth. It took a couple years but we got beyond it.

 

You have to do what's right for you, and if daring others helps you figure things out then by all means do it. You can tell him now or later, but being true to yourself is the only real option.

[BuddyX]

"Even if you fall flat on your face, you're still moving forward"

 

Pickle, you're just too scared to do anything. Hence the Rut. I encourage you to take a step back and reasses. Do you want to be in this spot 6 months from now? A year?

Create goals and try to achieve them.

Small steps. Small steps.

[rainbowsandkittens]

The last month or so (maybe 6 weeks) of the A I was in was when I found this board. I don't remember what made me look for it. But I think it was something like, "Do affairs ever work out in the single AP's favor?" So I went looking and came here and read articles on Baggage Reclaim and other sites.

 

For weeks I would get in bed at night with my ipad and read all these stories, these warnings. And I would try my best to think, "Well, that's THEM. WE'RE different." And the more I read the more I realized that we WERE just like the majority of people. The things he said, the way I felt, the questions I had. I didn't want to believe it.

 

I think that's part of what got me to start feeling more insecure with him and pushing him for more attention and affection. Bc surely everyone else was wrong and our feelings for each other were genuine. And the more I pushed, the more he pulled back. Every day for a month I thought about ending it: it was the right thing to do, this was going to end someday and I was going to be the one hurt, it's better for him, etc. But I kept stalling because, well, I had strong feelings for the guy.

 

And I got more and more insecure. And he pulled away more and more.

 

And then one day he ended it. Voila! Just like that. He cited my need for reassurance, among other things. He told me he was never going to leave his partner, nor did he want to. (He also had the balls to tell me he'd always been clear with me about this. UM, NO.)

 

It's been just over a month. It still hurts. As much as it did then? No. It's getting better. I miss him so much- I want to talk to him and touch him and see him. But the truth is- he is done. It's over. And it's for the best. Because I always knew it was going to end some day. It had to, given the circumstances.

 

Like Oprah says- when you know better, you do better. And even though I knew better all along, once I really opened my eyes, I couldn't deny the things I read on here. The end was coming, one way or another.

 

I don't know if this makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is it feels like you're reading this and fighting it and I get that. But the more you read the more it's going to soak in and maybe you'll start to come out of the fog little by little. It seems to me that's going to be the best way to unpickle yourself.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Sorry for writing a book.

[Gigi2015]

Dear rainbows:

 

You're a kind soul to share your story. I think when the pupil is ready the master appears. You were ready....but--deep down inside you glad to do it. I'm sorry for your pain...but---you'll have learned so much from this!! And in the the next relationship you'll be ready to demand a great relationship or else...Kudos to you girl! You are an inspiration....

[rainbowsandkittens]

Dear rainbows:

 

You're a kind soul to share your story. I think when the pupil is ready the master appears. You were ready....but--deep down inside you glad to do it. I'm sorry for your pain...but---you'll have learned so much from this!! And in the the next relationship you'll be ready to demand a great relationship or else...Kudos to you girl! You are an inspiration....

 

 

Thanks Gigi! I'm trying (so so so hard!) I have a thread about this too but it probably sounds a lot less assured than that post does. lol.

[Gigi2015]

Thanks Gigi! I'm trying (so so so hard!) I have a thread about this too but it probably sounds a lot less assured than that post does. lol.

 

 

Transitions are hard...you deserve the best!

[PickledHead]

Iv been coming on here for months - I was looking at something completely unrelated to affairs but saw this section, thought I would have a gander and I found it all very interesting. Great site

 

I am sure one day I will wake up and decide that enough is enough. I almost wish I had been able to give my full story from the start - whilst I'm sure it will still be deemed the same old A story it may have given a better insight as to my own thoughts around it all Rather than people thinking I'm in denial ect

 

Thankyou for sharing your story Rainbow, sounds like you have emerged admirably and are doing really well at a month NC

[Gigi2015]

Iv been coming on here for months - I was looking at something completely unrelated to affairs but saw this section, thought I would have a gander and I found it all very interesting. Great site

 

I am sure one day I will wake up and decide that enough is enough. I almost wish I had been able to give my full story from the start - whilst I'm sure it will still be deemed the same old A story it may have given a better insight as to my own thoughts around it all Rather than people thinking I'm in denial ect

 

Thankyou for sharing your story Rainbow, sounds like you have emerged admirably and are doing really well at a month NC

 

You simply have to define what's good enough for you! You have to determine your worth.... What do you deserve? When you determine that you'll get MAD if you're coming up short....