Dating for a Socially Awkward 30yr old Male...Part 2

[spriggan2]

I made a thread like a month ago about my emergence from a lifetime of social anxiety and entry into the dating scene. I received some great advice on here, and through the use of dating apps was able to secure some first dates...4 in total. Im happy to report they all went great (apart from the hit to my wallet). Pleasant dinner dates with sustained conversation and eye contact and mutual pleasure. Now Im basically trying to improve in the areas of romance and ethics.

 

First, although the dates went well I still felt I was lacking in the romance department. I would describe the dates as friendly rather than romantic. I feel like apart from complimenting outfits, I never really steered the conversation towards anything intimate or involving relationships. I guess I was worried about coming across as lustful, or inappropriate or awkward. Last thread I asked about kissing on the first date, but honestly none of these situations had a type of vibe that would bring a moment where a kiss would even feel right. I'm trying to figure out how to work it, how to open myself up a little more, create an atmosphere of physical attraction and desire. The good news is I think all the ladies I've seen would be happy to go on second dates, and I've already had a second date with one of them.

 

The other concern though is ethics. I mentioned last thread that my first ever relationship began last summer, and would you believe up until then I was under the impression that exclusivity was implied after a first date or two? I thought it was wrong to see other people simultaneously. I realize now that's not how it works. People can see whomever they want until they have an exclusivity talk. However something still feels off. While I am participating in these dates primarily to improve my social and courtship skills, I did recently get broken up with, and so I can't deny that this also must have something to do with nursing my ego. I mean I've already been on 4 dates. This coming weekend I'll most likely have a date Friday, Saturday and Sunday, two of which are past first dates. I've also been texting this other girl who seems very into me. My newness to dating apps is sort of overwhelming. I'd say there are 3 girls who are relatively into me, and it feels like they aren't seeing other guys at the moment. I dont want to hurt anyone...Ugh, I suppose I'm just expressing my disorganized thoughts here. Maybe Im just worrying too much.

Edited February 8, 2016 by spriggan2

[road]

Nothing wrong to not want to multi date or have the woman that you want to date be seeing others while seeing you.

 

 

Just tell them during the 2nd date that you want to keep seeing her and do not want any multi dating.

[testmeasure]

I made a thread like a month ago about my emergence from a lifetime of social anxiety and entry into the dating scene. I received some great advice on here, and through the use of dating apps was able to secure some first dates...4 in total. Im happy to report they all went great (apart from the hit to my wallet). Pleasant dinner dates with sustained conversation and eye contact and mutual pleasure. Now Im basically trying to improve in the areas of romance and ethics.

I think the advice in the first thread was to keep dating for the experience. It sounds like that worked. A LOT.

 

First, although the dates went well I still felt I was lacking in the romance department. I would describe the dates as friendly rather than romantic. I feel like apart from complimenting outfits, I never really steered the conversation towards anything intimate or involving relationships.

 

It's hard to know how to take this over the internet. Let me offer two possible answers which I can't differentiate without being there.

 

It's said guys are attracted by appearance. Women are attracted by attention and confidence. If you confidently engaged what these women actually said... about the weather or politics or anything, they might consider it the most romantic fist date they ever had. Simply because you paid attention to them for who they actually were as opposed to drooling over their appearance.

 

Maybe that's why you're getting the response you are. If you're getting a great response, lean toward assuming you're doing it right.

 

The second, alternate thought is if you want to get more into relationship stuff super early, just talk about what you're looking for, what you want, and what kind of future you imagine. That's impersonal. It's not a specific romantic thing about her. But your vision of what you're looking for and what you want for the future will either resonate with her or it will turn her off. If it turns her off, it wasn't a match anyway. If it resonates with her she will experience it as a closely personal sharing of common values. That's a very romantic thing.

 

I guess I was worried about coming across as lustful, or inappropriate or awkward. Last thread I asked about kissing on the first date, but honestly none of these situations had a type of vibe that would bring a moment where a kiss would even feel right.

If you're not totally confident that you're emotionally connecting, don't even move on to worrying about the first physical connection.

I'm trying to figure out how to work it, how to open myself up a little more, create an atmosphere of physical attraction and desire. The good news is I think all the ladies I've seen would be happy to go on second dates, and I've already had a second date with one of them.

That's great news about the practice and may indicate you're doing better on some things than you understand.

The other concern though is ethics. I mentioned last thread that my first ever relationship began last summer, and would you believe up until then I was under the impression that exclusivity was implied after a first date or two? I thought it was wrong to see other people simultaneously. I realize now that's not how it works. People can see whomever they want until they have an exclusivity talk. However something still feels off. While I am participating in these dates primarily to improve my social and courtship skills, I did recently get broken up with, and so I can't deny that this also must have something to do with nursing my ego. I mean I've already been on 4 dates. This coming weekend I'll most likely have a date Friday, Saturday and Sunday, two of which are past first dates. I've also been texting this other girl who seems very into me. My newness to dating apps is sort of overwhelming. I'd say there are 3 girls who are relatively into me, and it feels like they aren't seeing other guys at the moment. I dont want to hurt anyone...Ugh, I suppose I'm just expressing my disorganized thoughts here. Maybe Im just worrying too much.

 

Seriously this is a highly personal thing.

 

Personally, if I dated a girl once and wanted a second date, I wouldn't be able to date someone else in-between. It felt like a 50/50 thing. Half of it was my own integrity. Dating is a try-out for a permanent role. I felt I could only seriously consider one candidate at a time. Having multiple irons in the fire, just seemed wrong to me personally. My first relationship, the girl put me through a long period where she was "deciding" between me and someone else. It was hell and torture. So this may be a personal thing of mine not to ever make a girl think there is even a chance I'm deciding between her and someone else. No. I'm only ever just going to be deciding about her. The other half of it is what I want from the girl. If we're dating my expectation is that she is considering me for an indefinite long term relationship. If she's actually trying to make that kind of serious decision about me, I want her focused on me and deciding that about me, not just as a comparison to 3 other guys. To me, the integrity of the decision works both ways, so it's 50/50.

 

Ok, set down the moral issues and let's look at the practical. What are you selecting for, what do you want them to select you for, and what will endure after the selection process. I could never handle dating multiple people. I had no interest in dating people who did date multiple people. I passed them over. As a result it showed the people I did date that I was serious about them and it showed me they were serious about me. Ok, so what's the track record? I'm middle aged, I've dated 6 people in my life and had 5 relationships. 3 of those relationships were 5+ years. The result being I've only ever dated 6 people, but I'm middle age and I've been in a relationship 70% of my adult life.

 

If you're looking for something serious and long term, I'd simply suggest that multi-dating won't attract that person to you or make you look attractive to that person. To me multi-dating is like selecting against my own future. I fully realize this is a highly personal opinion and that I'm older and "things are different today".

 

 

.

[hasaquestion]

First, although the dates went well I still felt I was lacking in the romance department. I would describe the dates as friendly rather than romantic. I feel like apart from complimenting outfits, I never really steered the conversation towards anything intimate or involving relationships. I guess I was worried about coming across as lustful, or inappropriate or awkward. Last thread I asked about kissing on the first date, but honestly none of these situations had a type of vibe that would bring a moment where a kiss would even feel right. I'm trying to figure out how to work it, how to open myself up a little more, create an atmosphere of physical attraction and desire. The good news is I think all the ladies I've seen would be happy to go on second dates, and I've already had a second date with one of them.

 

First off, you're doing great. Kudos.

 

My two cents, is that its up to you to steer a date in the direction of 'romantic'. If you're giving off super-platonic vibes then that's what you're going to get back. A date isn't going to spontaneously take a turn for the more intimate. Just like a book doesn't write itself.

 

I know you don't want to be inappropriate. But you shouldn't fear touching and flirting either. As a matter of fact, if you're romantically interested in her you SHOULD be more forward in my opinion because by being forward you are being honest and consistent about what you want. The worst thing you can do is lie to people, no?

[OnlyHonesty]

It sounds like your comment about the conversation lacking intimacy is really lacking flirtation. The art of flirtation is very powerful if done correctly and in a non obvious, non crude way. Did you flirt at all during any of the conversations?

[spriggan2]

Thank you guys for the feedback! Yes, flirtation is the word. I really have no idea how to flirt apart from maybe a little bit via text. I assume verbal and physical flirtation is what sets the mood to something more intimate. I suppose I'll give it a shot during round two. It's something I really want to learn. I'm sure I'd enjoy it after a while.

[AMJ]

Women love to be complimented about anything. It's such an easy way to start flirting but men have a hard time doing this. Tell us we're pretty, you like our hair, you think we're smart, you think we're funny, we're kind...we make good cupcakes..just pick things about her and tell her how great she is. If it's too scary to go straight for the "you're really beautiful" compliments, start smaller with "you're really funny".

[spriggan2]

Ugh...horrible setback. Completely blew it at a bar with a girl yesterday.

 

Was Mardi Gras so I went out with my cousin, who's much MUCH more talkative and confident than I am, esp with women. He dared me to talk to this girl next to us who was checking me out, who was just my type physically. I wimped out, time dragged on and it was so clear she was waiting for me to make a move, so he engaged her and found out she played classical violin...I play classical piano so that was an opening for me. Got to talking with her, but I was so nervous and embarrassed for how long I'd waited, and how my cousin transparently guided me into the conversation, that I slowly began to sweat. (I used to have a constant nervous sweat, these days it happens once in a while). Had to practically knee my cousin in the back to re-enter because once me and the girl started talking he had assumed I was set and he totally withdrew.

 

Excused myself to go to the bathroom and dried my face. Thought my chances were over, but when I returned and made a sheepish attempt at carrying on our conversation, I found that the girl was still warm and open and leaning in close to me when she talked over the pumping music, and her friend had joined. We talked some more but it was this weird thing where we would briefly run out of words to say, I'd turn and talk to my cousin, and she'd talk to her friend. It was like boxing rounds.

 

I found out she reads the same sort of fiction books I do, likes jazz like me, she's new to the city, so gorgeous up close, likes working out like me, was so easy to talk to and relate with, is a lawyer from DC. Compared to my online first dates, our initial measure of compatibility just seemed off the scales.

 

Then came time to exit, when I was supposed to ask for her digits. I got up and shook her hand and smiled and told her it was nice to meet her. I had told her Saturday nights were much busier and livelier at that place and she'd said maybe she'd see me there (she's not a regular). But right then, instead of asking for her number, I just started mumbling some weird gibberish about a book we talked about earlier, and at one point I had no words and just paused abruptly and stared at her and she looked at me expectantly and nothing came out. It was just painfully awkward moments, George Costanza type failure...and I left with no info about her, worse than nothing, abject failure, self pity, self hate, depression, gloom, discouragement that I'm never going to get over my anxiety enough to confidently pursue a rare woman that I think could gel with me. I mean I'm not totally over my ex, but this one was the first woman who I genuinely felt I would like better than her in a relationship, which was actually mind blowing because I was crazily in love with my ex. Yet I didn't have what it takes.

 

It was just all so miserable. Some positives though. I impressed her with my literary discussion, she complimented me a lot, was definitely into me, hinted she might be back on a Saturday...but still I'm dwelling on it and had to post it here to get it out of my system.

Edited February 10, 2016 by spriggan2

[Jabron1]

Hey, mate. It's good that you're pushing yourself to get out there. I was a bit like you, but my learning curve happened earlier. I'm 29 now, and went through all of this confusion in my teens/early twenties. I'll give you some advice.

 

Im happy to report they all went great (apart from the hit to my wallet). Pleasant dinner dates with sustained conversation and eye contact and mutual pleasure.

 

First off, I hate dinner dates. They are too formal - like a job interview. They are also too expensive. I typically only spend about £20-£30 maximum on a date (and that involves all of my expenses like travel). You are the value. You don't need to impress these women with anything fancy. You don't even know if you'll get on with her. Leave dinner dates for when you're in a relationship, or for special occasions.

 

My typical first date starts with coffee and conversation. This is to make sure that I click with her as a person.

 

After that, we'll go to a pub that has a cool atmosphere. That's when I'll start increasing the flirty vibe. I'll be looking for a kiss before the end of the date. I won't look for first date sex, but sometimes you know it's on, and it just happens.

 

although the dates went well I still felt I was lacking in the romance department. I would describe the dates as friendly rather than romantic. I feel like apart from complimenting outfits, I never really steered the conversation towards anything intimate or involving relationships.

 

Part of that is the dinner-date problem mentioned above. You need to be aiming for a playful vibe. You do not want to act like her gay best friend. Tease her, playfully mess with her, and don't be scared to 'offend' her. Get her laughing.

 

I guess I was worried about coming across as lustful, or inappropriate or awkward.

 

Don't be. You need to push things to see what you can get away with. Speed the car until it crashes. Your just starting out, so just accept that you will make a lot of mistakes.

 

Last thread I asked about kissing on the first date, but honestly none of these situations had a type of vibe that would bring a moment where a kiss would even feel right.

 

You need to create that atmosphere. As a man, that's on you. You have to realize that women like sex. They want you to kiss them and be a man about it. They want you to lead things along. You are probably disappointing them with too slow an approach.

[Jabron1]

The other concern though is ethics. I mentioned last thread that my first ever relationship began last summer, and would you believe up until then I was under the impression that exclusivity was implied after a first date or two? I thought it was wrong to see other people simultaneously. I realize now that's not how it works. People can see whomever they want until they have an exclusivity talk. However something still feels off. While I am participating in these dates primarily to improve my social and courtship skills, I did recently get broken up with, and so I can't deny that this also must have something to do with nursing my ego. I mean I've already been on 4 dates. This coming weekend I'll most likely have a date Friday, Saturday and Sunday, two of which are past first dates. I've also been texting this other girl who seems very into me. My newness to dating apps is sort of overwhelming. I'd say there are 3 girls who are relatively into me, and it feels like they aren't seeing other guys at the moment. I dont want to hurt anyone...Ugh, I suppose I'm just expressing my disorganized thoughts here. Maybe Im just worrying too much.

 

Okay, on ethics for a man in the dating world.

 

You should date around. Every man should. Men should not be looking to form relationships - that's the woman's role.

 

Women are the gatekeepers of sex; men are the gatekeepers of relationships

 

Don't give a relationship willy-nilly. Have some standards. Never ask a woman for exclusivity; that's her job. This sort of thing is why women complain about 'needy' men.

 

You are free to see all the women you like. But there's a balance: don't lie to anyone about it, but don't be rubbing it in a woman's face either.

 

Eventually, you'll meet a woman that you really like. And, you'll be choosing to have a relationship with her from a position of strength (because you have options) rather than from a place of weakness (because you were just desperate for intimacy).