[Betrayed spouse/partner]the [affair partner] is not your real problem

[JamesM]

100% would be my husband's fault for falling for that! I'd blame him all the way! I know what I'd say, either you bring our money back or don't come home, you did this you better damn well take care of it. I would already know the person that stole the money doesn't care & why would my H be that stupid!

 

Now with saying that this is a bad analogy bc you still have a chance to get back what was taken. You can't in an A, it starts over as a new relationship. So no I wouldn't care about the person that stole the money. They wouldn't have been able to do that if my H didn't hand it over.

 

You quoted the wrong person me thinks.

 

Edit: You caught that I see.

[Whoknew30]

Now it is time for someone to present a different opinion.

 

The WS, the AP, AND the BS are the problem in many affairs.

 

I could end there, but I guess I will explain.

 

Like has been said, every affair is different, so generalizations can't be made. Knowing that, my opinion applies to some and not all affairs.

 

 

So using myself as an example, I will try to explain why I think everyone is at fault.

 

Affairs aren't always started with the WS looking for an AP. Many are started because two individuals become close and carry the friendship to an intimate level. The ones in the affair suddenly enter Affairyland and forget about reality.

 

When DDay occurs everyone blames the other and so the marriage dissolves and the affair ends with all lives being ruined.

 

If that were me, then my wife would say that we have a happy marriage and she could not understand how I could throw everything out the window for some other woman.

 

Yet if she were even partially honest, then she would know as many here do that our sexless marriage weighs heavily on me. I have tried everything with mixed results. And yes, I have now been here ten years and during that time, she has been told enough times how important sex is to me and us. She would admit that I have told her. Now in the last few months, I have given up so I do not bother telling her how I feel anymore. It isn't worth my time, nor does it help my emotions to dwell on it.

 

So hypothetically (and yes, it is) along comes a woman who captures my heart by showing physical affection. I am smitten.

 

Yes, I made the choice to start the affair. Yes, the AP made the choice to join me. And here is the one thing that is forgotten. My wife (the BS) made her choice long ago to no longer enjoy sex and its connection with me despite my anger, begging and courting.

 

To my wife having conversations with me over coffee and lunches are very important. Without them she feels that we don't have a connection. When I don't do them, she pouts and says she needs me to listen and talk with her or she feels distant. Luckily for her, I do enjoy these talks but not always. If I want to get out, the she feels that it is personal sometimes. Yet she cannot make the same connection to me wanting that intimate connection with her. Since she doesn't feel that need, then she thinks I shouldn't need it either. (And yes, she has said that).

 

So now along comes a woman who recognizes that void in me. She sees me as a great listener and friend. She knows that every relationship involves pleasing each person in a way that he or she needs it. So she fills my void and I fill hers. We grow to love one another.

 

The reality is that an affair does not usually start in a vacuum with one person simply deciding that an affair would be an interesting diversion. There are many factors that can cause a person to choose an affair, and there are many ways to prevent one.

 

All my wife has to do is recognize that for our marriage to work, it takes two. While I need to listen and talk with her and be her emotional support, she needs to take the time to really try and enjoy sexual relations so that our love can be expressed physically. This makes me feel closer to her. Talking and friendship help, but I need more than a good friend.

 

Saying simply that it is all the WS's fault because he or she should have communicated the problems to the BS is being naive. Reality is that many times the WS has communicated it in many ways. Should he have chosen an affair? No.

 

Do affairs happen in happy marriages? Of course. Do they happen because some men or women want variety? Yes. But is that the norm? Based on reading many stories here and on other boards and knowing how my own marriage is, I would have to say no.

 

Affairs are the result often because a marriage is broken before the affair starts. If we were to say someone is more at fault, then we can say the WS. If we were to say that someone has the least amount of fault, then often we can't say that it is the BS or the AP.

 

Right now there are many marriages that are on the brink of an affair. The reason one hasn't happened yet is simply because the OM or OW hasn't entered the picture. Either person in that broken marriage could be the WS and either could be the BS. All they need is a little push from the OP and off they go.

 

 

I think this goes to what the OP meant & my opinion too. A are a symptom of a bigger problem.

[wmacbride]

Who said an excuse?

 

All I'm saying is your asking for someone to care about hurting you that doesn't. She cared for your H, what she did is wrong but that's part of an A. The AP gets to go away many times with no consequences bc...life isn't fair. That's why A get messy, the AP doesn't owe you anything. You can be mad all day but what does that do? How does that make you feel better. You already know she doesn't care, so what exactly is a BS in your situation want? It happened, you can would have, could have, shouldn't have all day but it happened, the AP doesn't care & the reality is, gets to walk away bc she's not the one married to you.

 

I'm not defending anything but a situation is what it is & all the hate in the world can't change something once it happens. So once something bad happens it's all about what's the best way you can handle it & being angry after awhile doesn't affect anyone or anything but yourself, no one else. Anger always trickles into other parts in one's life & it's never good. That's all I'm saying.

 

i know I sound like I don't understand where you are coming from, or that i see all ow and om as sitting there scheming how to ruin other people's lives. I don't think they are doing that. Most are guilty of doing what we all do at one time or another.

 

In my case, and I am not alone, what she did, she did directly to me. This went way beyond getting involved with my ws. While that was certainly bad, it is on him.

It;s what she did after the A ended that I have a real problem with. She wasn't doing it to him, she was doing it to me, and our children. harassing us, asking them how they liked their daddy being away when she bumped into us "accidentally" at a local store, parking on the street outside our house and staring at me and our kids for hours even though she knew he was away.

 

yes, she is the problem, in that part of what happened.

[wmacbride]

I'm saying "staying" angry, does what? You can't be angry & it doesn't affect you in other ways. It's a stress & poison to only oneself.

 

Now are you still married?

 

Just speaking for myself, , you bet i am still angry. that doesn't mean that anger is there all the time. It comes up if and when i think about what she did. I'm fine with that. I am living my life, am happy, and my ws and i have reconciled. the A was about six years ago, and we've been married almost 20 years. we are both happy.

 

we had some counseling, and I went on my own while he was away for almost a year ( deployed). i was getting more and more frustrated because I felt, like you, that i needed to let go of the anger.

 

The therapist tole me the idea that you have to let go of your anger, when you have good reasons to be angry, is bunk. she told me that it is a waste of mental energy, but it is an even bigger one trying to force yourself to not be angry when you have every reason to be so.

 

she also said that everyone handles the situation differently, and you have to find what works for you.

 

I have.

 

I'm not saying it's what is best for everyone, or even anyone , else. It works for me, and since I am the only person who has to live with my feelings, I am fine with that.

[wmacbride]

I think this goes to what the OP meant & my opinion too. A are a symptom of a bigger problem.

 

That's a blanket statement, and they are usually never accurate.

 

Who's problem, exactly?

 

I have zero doubt that some ws feel disconnected form their bs and have tried to voice their concerns and are ignored.

 

In others, the A really does happen out of the blue. speaking for myself, my ws was telling me a week before he gave me the "I Love You But I am Not In Love With You" speech that bs so often hear that he was happy, he felt lucky we were together, and we had a great life.

 

Next week...boom. I got the speech.

 

To be fair, he was having some issues that he was hiding, and was apprehensive about being deployed again. he wouldn't talk to me about those things, because he had bought into the culture you often see in the army of pushing these feelings way down.

 

That doesn't excuse his behavior, but it explained it, and it took a lot of counseling and therapy for him to reach a point where he was able to begin to talk about it, but he still refuses to talk about it with me, which is not uncommon for combat veterans with PTSD.

 

That's just one example of how a bs can be completely blindsided and really have not played a role in the ws decision to cheat, and I believe it is a conscious decision. I could maybe understand feelings getting away form a person and a quick kiss happening, after which there is regret and an end to the A. I don't accept that someone just floats into bed with someone without knowing full well what they are doing.

 

My spouse told me he had made the choice she made knowing full well what he was doing, was very sorry and took responsibility for them in a lot fo ways i won;t go into here - his A had consequences that went far further than our marriage. If he hadn't have done that, if he had said " I don't know how it happened', I would have divorced him. I can't be with someone who feels they have no self control or self awareness.

 

btw...thanks for the thread and the interesting points you are making. I may not agree with all of them,but you do make a lot of sense.

[Arieswoman]

wmacbride #40

 

 

"i know I sound like a hardass, but I really believe that people shouldn't knowingly hurt others. A mm cries on a woman's shoulder that his wifey isn't being nice to him? She always has the option of telling him to stop whigning and either go back and talk to her or leave his marriage"

 

 

A good point.

 

 

But, sadly, so many women fall for this "playing the victim" act.

[dreamingoftigers]

Now it is time for someone to present a different opinion.

 

The WS, the AP, AND the BS are the problem in many affairs.

 

I could end there, but I guess I will explain.

 

Like has been said, every affair is different, so generalizations can't be made. Knowing that, my opinion applies to some and not all affairs.

 

 

So using myself as an example, I will try to explain why I think everyone is at fault.

 

Affairs aren't always started with the WS looking for an AP. Many are started because two individuals become close and carry the friendship to an intimate level. The ones in the affair suddenly enter Affairyland and forget about reality.

 

When DDay occurs everyone blames the other and so the marriage dissolves and the affair ends with all lives being ruined.

 

If that were me, then my wife would say that we have a happy marriage and she could not understand how I could throw everything out the window for some other woman.

 

Yet if she were even partially honest, then she would know as many here do that our sexless marriage weighs heavily on me. I have tried everything with mixed results. And yes, I have now been here ten years and during that time, she has been told enough times how important sex is to me and us. She would admit that I have told her. Now in the last few months, I have given up so I do not bother telling her how I feel anymore. It isn't worth my time, nor does it help my emotions to dwell on it.

 

So hypothetically (and yes, it is) along comes a woman who captures my heart by showing physical affection. I am smitten.

 

Yes, I made the choice to start the affair. Yes, the AP made the choice to join me. And here is the one thing that is forgotten. My wife (the BS) made her choice long ago to no longer enjoy sex and its connection with me despite my anger, begging and courting.

 

To my wife having conversations with me over coffee and lunches are very important. Without them she feels that we don't have a connection. When I don't do them, she pouts and says she needs me to listen and talk with her or she feels distant. Luckily for her, I do enjoy these talks but not always. If I want to get out, the she feels that it is personal sometimes. Yet she cannot make the same connection to me wanting that intimate connection with her. Since she doesn't feel that need, then she thinks I shouldn't need it either. (And yes, she has said that).

 

So now along comes a woman who recognizes that void in me. She sees me as a great listener and friend. She knows that every relationship involves pleasing each person in a way that he or she needs it. So she fills my void and I fill hers. We grow to love one another.

 

The reality is that an affair does not usually start in a vacuum with one person simply deciding that an affair would be an interesting diversion. There are many factors that can cause a person to choose an affair, and there are many ways to prevent one.

 

All my wife has to do is recognize that for our marriage to work, it takes two. While I need to listen and talk with her and be her emotional support, she needs to take the time to really try and enjoy sexual relations so that our love can be expressed physically. This makes me feel closer to her. Talking and friendship help, but I need more than a good friend.

 

Saying simply that it is all the WS's fault because he or she should have communicated the problems to the BS is being naive. Reality is that many times the WS has communicated it in many ways. Should he have chosen an affair? No.

 

Do affairs happen in happy marriages? Of course. Do they happen because some men or women want variety? Yes. But is that the norm? Based on reading many stories here and on other boards and knowing how my own marriage is, I would have to say no.

 

Affairs are the result often because a marriage is broken before the affair starts. If we were to say someone is more at fault, then we can say the WS. If we were to say that someone has the least amount of fault, then often we can't say that it is the BS or the AP.

 

Right now there are many marriages that are on the brink of an affair. The reason one hasn't happened yet is simply because the OM or OW hasn't entered the picture. Either person in that broken marriage could be the WS and either could be the BS. All they need is a little push from the OP and off they go.

 

You are assuming that WS are dedicated to begin with AND are both capable and willing to communicate their issues.

 

In my case particularly, my husband was looking for hookups due to a couple of reasons that had literally nothing to do with me as a spouse or something he felt the need at the time to bring to my attention.

 

1. He had wanted children. I was told prior to marriage that I would not be able to conceive. We had planned that IF by some miracle I did conceive, it would be a great thing /blessing. If not, after a decade or so we would get ourselves into position to foster or adopt. I wasn't "big" on kids at the time so it didn't matter to me one way or the other. We adopted digs innthe meantime. I quite enjoyed life. He seemed to as well.

 

Sooooooo, what happened? About four years in, I got pregnant. Did my sex drive drop? Nope. Nada. Did I start 'neglecting' him? Nope. In fact it looked like this jgs were going pretty much the way he would have wanted.

 

But what happened to him internally was quite different than the picture he was painting on the outside. He was freaking out. S*** just got real. He said in retrospect that he just felt very trapped. He knew we were married and all, that he wanted a family with me etc. But the baby made him very much feel like he had better get some last kicks in at youth, last flings because NOW there was a point of no return.

 

I had NO idea. He hid his activities VERY well and it was only by fluke that I found out about it. Very big fluke in fact. He was very 'honest' to the women he was seeking out, actually. Which is somewhat why I didn't have AS BIG of an issue with trying to reconcile. He never skagged me to them. In fact, when one asked him point blank of he had a good sex life with me and loved me etc etc etc. Why he was seeking anything out? His response: "You can't eat steak everyday."

 

2. Of course he wasn't communicating with me. Why communicate with the spouse if the goal is to have anonymous flings?

 

The other reason that followed his actions: it was his belief that this was pretty much common male practice. You go out on the DL, keep your affairs from your wife, after all it isn't "her" problem. It's yours. Misogynistic? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Functional? No.

 

This was never about 'lack of appreciation' in fact, he lost a lot of my adoration for him for a good half-decade. And I really did adore him. I used to make him dinner from scratch every night (he loved that) and just couldn't be bothered after that. I barely touched our kitchen for years. It was a small thing, but lots of those happened. It had a pretty big effect on his self-esteem. And I did expose him too. I don't regret it.

 

We still attend weekly marital counseling. It's much better now. He's come along way personally over the last six-seven years. We are having another child now and I am not afraid of the same issues popping up.

 

----------------

My case doesn't really follow your template at all.

 

I wracked my brain for years to see where I went wrong (aside from marrying a guy with a screwy family. However, he behaved so functionally around them, I thought he dealt with his FOO issues before I met him).

 

I went over and over what "signs" there were or what I missed.

 

I came up empty. That's not to say that I'm perfect.

But in the context of our relationship, there was no great gap. If anything, I was very accommodating. I can't tell you how many crappy movies I've sat through. (I am not a TV person, my husband is a TV junkie and likes to cuddle and watch his shows. When we separated I didn't even turn the TV on for 3 months.) I was actually blindsided and surprised that he would risk what we had.

 

To be honest I was even more surprised that he pushed and pulled to try to "get me over it." And then when after years of me trying, and then frustrated, and then him pretty much trainwrecking....... That he went and got help and dedicated himself to staying and repairing things.

 

So, I guess he's full of.....surprises.

But now they are good ones.

[Toodaloo]

Do affairs happen in happy marriages? Of course. Do they happen because some men or women want variety? Yes. But is that the norm? Based on reading many stories here and on other boards and knowing how my own marriage is, I would have to say no.

 

Affairs are the result often because a marriage is broken before the affair starts. If we were to say someone is more at fault, then we can say the WS. If we were to say that someone has the least amount of fault, then often we can't say that it is the BS or the AP.

 

Right now there are many marriages that are on the brink of an affair. The reason one hasn't happened yet is simply because the OM or OW hasn't entered the picture. Either person in that broken marriage could be the WS and either could be the BS. All they need is a little push from the OP and off they go.

 

James raises good points.

 

However I am taking yet another skew on it.

 

If you are that miserable that you feel the need to cheat on your partner would it not be easier (long term) to split up, get a divorce then marry someone who does fill that void?

 

Would it not be simpler and far less painful if people had integrity and once they find out a person they are seeing is in a relationship they back off and refuse to get involved?

 

If only we all opened our ears and listened to each other it would be easier...

[Midwestmissy]

Dreaming of tigers, our stories are similar: he never complained about me & the marriage until he was dealing with a troubled business. He was terrified about finances and kept his fears to himself. That's when I was told I was never happy, I was spoiled, I didn't contribute financially (sahm, he was so proud that I was), I was controlling, my standards were too high. Projection to the nth degree.

 

His direct report was a neglectful married mother of 4, Texted him 100s of times a day, never judged, had standards a worm would trip over. Easy peasy. While they were exploring this new relationship, I was in therapy, I got my first job in 16 yrs, volunteered at 2 places, worked out, and took care of the kids - while we never knew where he was, my kids always knew exactly where I was and when I was coming home. We went to mc while he was actively in the affair and he was arrogant and smug, and basically waiting for the hour to be up so he could call his girlfriend and tell her what a devoted husband he was and what a mess of a wife he had. I've seen the phone records. He told me what was wrong with the marriage -me - and I did backflips to fix it. Guess what it wasn't me or the marriage, it was the gaping hole in him that led him to have an affair. Miraculously, I had no needs met, was treated as a wife appliance and masturbation aid, got less than 50% from a man who was getting the perks of 2 relationships, and yet I didn't cheat. I wasn't broken. I am now, but still not pushing my morals aside.

 

The mow didn't have a horse on the race, so eating up all his lies wasn't a risk to her. It may have even ended up with her marrying the boss, at best, so she went to town in their relationship. She didn't have 28 yrs and 3 kids dependent and invested in his decisions, so what did she care? They were awesome people, held back by weepy spouses c**k blocking their happiness.

 

I tried desperately to fix every little thing he suddenly claimed was wrong, and it didn't work. Nothing, nothing nothing external can prevent someone from cheating. The permission to betray comes from within.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dreaming of tigers, our stories are similar: he never complained about me & the marriage until he was dealing with a troubled business. He was terrified about finances and kept his fears to himself. That's when I was told I was never happy, I was spoiled, I didn't contribute financially (sahm, he was so proud that I was), I was controlling, my standards were too high. Projection to the nth degree.

 

His direct report was a neglectful married mother of 4, Texted him 100s of times a day, never judged, had standards a worm would trip over. Easy peasy. While they were exploring this new relationship, I was in therapy, I got my first job in 16 yrs, volunteered at 2 places, worked out, and took care of the kids - while we never knew where he was, my kids always knew exactly where I was and when I was coming home. We went to mc while he was actively in the affair and he was arrogant and smug, and basically waiting for the hour to be up so he could call his girlfriend and tell her what a devoted husband he was and what a mess of a wife he had. I've seen the phone records. He told me what was wrong with the marriage -me - and I did backflips to fix it. Guess what it wasn't me or the marriage, it was the gaping hole in him that led him to have an affair. Miraculously, I had no needs met, was treated as a wife appliance and masturbation aid, got less than 50% from a man who was getting the perks of 2 relationships, and yet I didn't cheat. I wasn't broken. I am now, but still not pushing my morals aside.

 

The mow didn't have a horse on the race, so eating up all his lies wasn't a risk to her. It may have even ended up with her marrying the boss, at best, so she went to town in their relationship. She didn't have 28 yrs and 3 kids dependent and invested in his decisions, so what did she care? They were awesome people, held back by weepy spouses c**k blocking their happiness.

 

I tried desperately to fix every little thing he suddenly claimed was wrong, and it didn't work. Nothing, nothing nothing external can prevent someone from cheating. The permission to betray comes from within.

 

My husband's entitlement cane out full force when it turned out after two weeks that I still wanted to leave and he felt that I should be "over it." By now.

 

After that, things pretty well exploded.

 

Then I was "unforgiving." We fought back and forth like we never had and ended up in MC because I had a little newborn baby, and I was completely unsure if I was making the right decision.

 

If we hadn't have gone to MC, we wouldn't have stayed together at the time (they reassured me of the possibility of reconciliation and how you get past it ec etc etc. I had never even HEARD of that before. My father had been exposed 3 weeks earlier and my parents were trying this "reconciliation" thing. It was like Bizarro World).

 

But if we hadn't have attended MC, I also wouldn't have had years of bullsh*t afterward. He really just trainwrecked after that. He couldn't have the relationship we had back, and he felt trapped within the marriage trying to hack it out. It was awful. And I hated it too.

 

We'd get a few weeks or months of traction, and he'd totally throw it away.

[Midwestmissy]

Self sabotage from being afraid of vulnerability. That's awful to be dragged into. Are you still married? How long ago did this happen?

[dreamingoftigers]

Self sabotage from being afraid of vulnerability. That's awful to be dragged into. Are you still married? How long ago did this happen?

 

Coming up on seven years in March. Wow. Time goes by.

 

I am still married. Things got really really bad. He ended up coming and going, relapsing with drinking, slipping a disc, you name it....

 

Then when I totally gave up and the same week I decided I was going to divorce.... He up and went and got help.

 

Big changes since then. We are expecting our second in May. I know that many couples go through this kind of stuff, and they split or don't. I think I went through it much younger than most of my counterparts so its a little weird for me. I married at 23 and before 30 I was already in full-fledged reconciliation with a child. Most of my friends weren't even married yet.