Is this...emotional abuse?

January 31, 2016

Hello, I am feeling very depressed now and am totally lost on how I should act in front of my fiancee. We have been together for over 8 years and she is very strict when it comes to cleanliness around the house and to be honest I am not a super clean person myself. We have worked it out that I will try my best to do as she said to keep the house clean; though there would still be times that I forget and leave a mess which makes her pretty upset every time. It all happens last week when she walked away from our home when she got upset at some cleaning that I didn't do. I was working at my desk and she stomped out of the house all of a sudden and said she would be gone for the day - we were supposed to go to look at a wedding venue later in the day. I told her I would clean it up if she told me but she simply said she was tired of repeating herself. She even told me that if this happens again next time she would leave the house immediately. I was pretty upset at that time as I didn't think I did something big enough to make her this upset. I tried calling her after that but she didn't answer. Later she sent me a text message saying she won't be going to my family dinner next week (which everyone was expecting her). I have not contacted her since as this is not the first time this has happened. Whenever she is upset she doesn't care how I feel and can say pretty nasty things that really hurt me: one time she told me to forget about our engagement, another time she told me to sell the house and part ways, the list goes on... I am not sure if she really meant it at the time but it really hurt my feeling. I mean, is this all an engagement meant to you? Something you have agreed to but can call it off so easily? I really want to talk to her about this but she is very touchy when it comes to criticism. She has made this rule that I am not allowed to talk in a serious tone to her and that I should keep anything negative/criticism about her to myself. I am in constant fear because I have no idea when she will be mad at something I say. Even when she does do something wrong and I got upset, she will get mad eventually when I talk to her in a serious tone, and I will always end up to be the one apologizing. I really want to know I am really the bad person because I am not sure anymore; I know I need to give it all for my fiancee, but I feel like my opinion is not being valued and no matter how hard I tried I am always not good enough.

January 31, 2016

Before anything else - halt the wedding planning. This is not the recipe for a healthy marriage whatsoever.

She is immature and I would bet any money something else is bothering her deep-down and she's using this latest "mess" as an excuse to get angry with you. In other words, I very much doubt this all boils down to a different level of cleanliness than she expects. I mean...really? She's refusing to attend a family dinner because she found a mess? No, there's something more going on here.

Her silent treatment and threats of leaving could be considered emotional abuse, yes. She has no idea how to handle conflict like an adult. You should not be living in constant fear of upsetting her. That's no way to live. Sorry, but I would be tolerating this type of behaviour. Why in heaven's name do you want to commit to a lifetime of this?

Where does she go when she storms out? And can you verify that she is where she says she is? It's awfully fishy that she seems to pick a fight over something so benign and then goes MIA. I do not like the sounds of that at all.

January 31, 2016

Hello, I am feeling very depressed now and am totally lost on how I should act in front of my fiancee. We have been together for over 8 years and she is very strict when it comes to cleanliness around the house and to be honest I am not a super clean person myself. We have worked it out that I will try my best to do as she said to keep the house clean; though there would still be times that I forget and leave a mess which makes her pretty upset every time. It all happens last week when she walked away from our home when she got upset at some cleaning that I didn't do. I was working at my desk and she stomped out of the house all of a sudden and said she would be gone for the day - we were supposed to go to look at a wedding venue later in the day. I told her I would clean it up if she told me but she simply said she was tired of repeating herself. She even told me that if this happens again next time she would leave the house immediately. I was pretty upset at that time as I didn't think I did something big enough to make her this upset. I tried calling her after that but she didn't answer. Later she sent me a text message saying she won't be going to my family dinner next week (which everyone was expecting her). I have not contacted her since as this is not the first time this has happened. Whenever she is upset she doesn't care how I feel and can say pretty nasty things that really hurt me: one time she told me to forget about our engagement, another time she told me to sell the house and part ways, the list goes on... I am not sure if she really meant it at the time but it really hurt my feeling. I mean, is this all an engagement meant to you? Something you have agreed to but can call it off so easily? I really want to talk to her about this but she is very touchy when it comes to criticism. She has made this rule that I am not allowed to talk in a serious tone to her and that I should keep anything negative/criticism about her to myself. I am in constant fear because I have no idea when she will be mad at something I say. Even when she does do something wrong and I got upset, she will get mad eventually when I talk to her in a serious tone, and I will always end up to be the one apologizing. I really want to know I am really the bad person because I am not sure anymore; I know I need to give it all for my fiancee, but I feel like my opinion is not being valued and no matter how hard I tried I am always not good enough.

Do you hear yourself?? Why do you, a grown up man, allow your woman to act like a mother to you and treat you as a disobedient child who needs to be punished for breaking her rules? The punishment, in your case, is verbal and emotional abuse, because she feels entitled to it, she is the rule setter and you're the follower, not an equal partner. Your relationship has parent-child dynamics and believe me, I know it cause I've been in one! You're never gonna be good enough, run!!

January 31, 2016

Of course this is abuse. Psychological abuse and she is inflicting behaviour onto you that results in how you feel about yourself and certainly impacts your confidence. It can lead to depression and PTSD.

I would reconsider walking down the aisle. Eight years is a long time and surely you owe yourself more than what you are settling for.

January 31, 2016

Before anything else - halt the wedding planning. This is not the recipe for a healthy marriage whatsoever.

She is immature and I would bet any money something else is bothering her deep-down and she's using this latest "mess" as an excuse to get angry with you. In other words, I very much doubt this all boils down to a different level of cleanliness than she expects. I mean...really? She's refusing to attend a family dinner because she found a mess? No, there's something more going on here.

Her silent treatment and threats of leaving could be considered emotional abuse, yes. She has no idea how to handle conflict like an adult. You should not be living in constant fear of upsetting her. That's no way to live. Sorry, but I would be tolerating this type of behaviour. Why in heaven's name do you want to commit to a lifetime of this?

Where does she go when she storms out? And can you verify that she is where she says she is? It's awfully fishy that she seems to pick a fight over something so benign and then goes MIA. I do not like the sounds of that at all.

Thanks for the reply.

She stays at her mother's house, which she does sometimes to take care of her (she's over 70).

I have talked to her about the hygiene problem and she said cleanliness is something she will not compromise in the house. I mean, I am willing to follow the 'rules' but it is all these silent treatments and harsh words that drains all of my energy.

As for the family dinner, by now you can probably tell that I am a pretty soft person. I am not sure if I have made a mistake at the beginning by giving her the freedom to not join some of the family dinner (as I have a big family both on my mother's and father's side and so these dinners are more frequent) if she cannot make it - like having agreed to meet up with friends before I told her about the dinner, or if she doesn't feel like it (I mean, I prefer her not to go if she shows up with an unhappy face).

January 31, 2016

Yes it IS abuse, and I think you know this too.

Question for you though.

Why in the world do *you* tolerate this crap...and are choosing to stay with this controlling, toxic and abusive person.

By staying, you are allowing her to continue this utterly horrible and debasing treatment, so sorry but that's on you.

Pack your things and LEAVE. What is preventing you from doing that?

January 31, 2016

Yes it IS abuse, and I think you know this too.

Question for you though.

Why in the world do *you* tolerate this crap...and are choosing to stay with this controlling, toxic and abusive person.

By staying, you are allowing her to continue this utterly horrible and debasing treatment, so sorry but that's on you.

Pack your things and LEAVE. What is preventing you from doing that?

When she is her normal self everything is great: she is caring, loving and all. But there is this dark side of her that turns her into someone I don't know...I have tried going against her, but she was willing to give up everything (even our relationship) to gain the upper hand. I know it sounds stupid to stick around but we have been together for 8 years and there are a lot of expectations from our parents/relatives. There are also things that we own (house, car...etc). I don't want to give up all we have worked for without at least trying save it. I planned to talk to her sister about this to see if she can help.

January 31, 2016

This is definitely not a healthy relationship. Why would you marry this person? Don't do that.

Leave. No contact. Then work on yourself a little bit.

I think a year from now you will feel soo much better, like you're breathing freely again.

Can't put a price on a peace of mind.

January 31, 2016

When she is her normal self everything is great: she is caring, loving and all. But there is this dark side of her that turns her into someone I don't know...I have tried going against her, but she was willing to give up everything (even our relationship) to gain the upper hand. I know it sounds stupid to stick around but we have been together for 8 years and there are a lot of expectations from our parents/relatives. There are also things that we own (house, car...etc). I don't want to give up all we have worked for without at least trying save it. I planned to talk to her sister about this to see if she can help.

Have you considered pre-marital, couples counseling?

That is very common before marriage.

January 31, 2016

OP, you might also try being strong and putting your foot down when she starts carrying on, threatening, walking out, acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.

Stand up to her and tell her to KNOCK IT OFF, otherwise YOU will leave.

Flip it around .....you can't allow her to control you like this! Even if she is nice and loving (normal) other times.

You are setting a very bad precedent by allowing her to behave this way Your self esteem is sinking and will continue to sink if YOU don't stand up to her and tell her to stop it.

If she throws another tantrum because if it, so be it. Stick to your guns and be strong!!!!

You can't go on this way.....this is no way to live!

January 31, 2016

OP, you might also try being strong and putting your foot down when she starts carrying on, threatening, walking out, acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.

Stand up to her and tell her to KNOCK IT OFF, otherwise YOU will leave.

Flip it around .....you can't allow her to control you like this! Even if she is nice and loving (normal) other times.

You are setting a very bad precedent by allowing her to behave this way Your self esteem is sinking and will continue to sink if YOU don't stand up to her and tell her to stop it.

If she throws another tantrum because if it, so be it. Stick to your guns and be strong!!!!

You can't go on this way.....this is no way to live!

Thanks Katiegrl, I will look into counseling. The truth is I wanted her to be happy but by doing so (not the right way) I have set some bad precedent which she took for granted and making myself depressed in the process.

January 31, 2016

When she is her normal self everything is great: she is caring, loving and all. But there is this dark side of her that turns her into someone I don't know...I have tried going against her, but she was willing to give up everything (even our relationship) to gain the upper hand. I know it sounds stupid to stick around but we have been together for 8 years and there are a lot of expectations from our parents/relatives. There are also things that we own (house, car...etc). I don't want to give up all we have worked for without at least trying save it. I planned to talk to her sister about this to see if she can help.

Don't talk to her sister. It's not her sister's responsibility to help your relationship, and I can almost promise you this will provoke another outburst fro your fiancee. It's not appropriate to involve her family member, in my opinion. If anything, follow katiegirl's suggestion of pre-martial counselling. You desperately need it if this relationship has a chance in h*ll.

Look, I get there are expectations and shared assets. I was with an ex for a long time too. But if your fiancee is not willing to try to meet you half-way, you can't "save" anything.

The problem is that you have enabled it and allowed her to behave like your mother. She is never going to take you seriously if you continuing pandering to her and permitting her to push you around. She, at the moment, has no respect for you or the relationship. Good heavens, if she gets like this over a mess, can you imagine what will happen when serious issues arise, as tends to happen in marriage and families? Does she want kids? If so, she's in for a real treat when she's got toddlers running around smearing peanut butter on the wall and digging in their own diapers! She's crap wife material at the moment.

Explain to her that she is welcome to leave whenever she wants, that you will not force her to stay in the house or the relationship, but that you will not tolerate her running away to her mother (or wherever) any time she gets angry. Make it crystal clear that you are her partner and will only accept treatment and respect that reflects your equal role in this relationship. Running away and giving you the silent treatment are no longer going to be accepted, and there will be no future between you if she keeps it up.

And then follow through. Don't chase after her, don't call her, don't beg her to come back if she pulls this malarkey again. Go radio silent and get on with your life. She does this because she knows she can control you. Stop giving her that control.

If she keeps doing it, then you know she just doesn't care. And then, I would advise you to end the relationship because you will know it's not going to improve.

But still - I think there are much bigger problems whirling around inside in her mind than you know. Her anger over this is the symptom of a deeper problem.

Edited January 31, 2016 by ExpatInItaly

January 31, 2016

This has been said many times on this board, and it's true.

>>>We teach people how to treat us.<<<

Via our actions, our reactions, our responses.

Words to live by for sure.

Good luck OP..

January 31, 2016

You can definitely change it. People who have been married over 50 years, sometimes take turns having the upper hand, as they go through different phases of life, having children, changing jobs and earning power, becoming ill etc. The dynamics do change and tables do turn.

How tidy can she be when one day she has several small children running around? Beat the kids and storm out of the house? I think not.

After 8 years, don't be too quick to throw it all away. Often obsessing about something (in this case, cleanlieness), means she feels her life is out of control, so she tries to control this one thing.

January 31, 2016

She can throw hissy fits at will and by her rules you cannot defend yourself or raise any concerns about her behavior.

She gives you scraps of what you want in the relationship while you bend over backwards to please her. Those scraps keep you hanging on for the good old days.

I tried 26 years to fix what was irretrievably broken. Lost my self, my self esteem, my friends and almost lost my family. The good old days never came back.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Boomerangmagnet

January 31, 2016

When she is her normal self everything is great: she is caring, loving and all. But there is this dark side of her that turns her into someone I don't know...I have tried going against her, but she was willing to give up everything (even our relationship) to gain the upper hand. I know it sounds stupid to stick around but we have been together for 8 years and there are a lot of expectations from our parents/relatives. There are also things that we own (house, car...etc). I don't want to give up all we have worked for without at least trying save it. I planned to talk to her sister about this to see if she can help.

Everyone has their quirks in what bothers them.

One thing you haven't talked about us how big of a mess did you naked? Is she overreacting? Is she jumping on the little things?

What about you.....

Is there anything you value that she doesn't make the effort that is important to you?

January 31, 2016

Everyone has their quirks in what bothers them.

***One thing you haven't talked about us how big of a mess did you naked?***

Is she overreacting? Is she jumping on the little things?

What about you.....

Is there anything you value that she doesn't make the effort that is important to you?

Ami1uwant, with respect would you mind reading your posts before sending? I often have difficulty understanding due to auto text changing what you really meant to say.

Second sentence.....??? "How big of a mess did you naked?"

I presume you meant "make"? If so, does that give her license to emotionally lash out, threaten, storm off and act like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum?

I think not!

Edited January 31, 2016 by katiegrl

January 31, 2016

OP, I think the way your financee is handling the situation is uncalled for, but I also wonder about your involvement. What types of messes are you making and leaving for her to clean up?

If you are going to assume the role of the child who makes messes he leaves for others to clean up, then it's not so shocking that she has taken on the role of parent. You need to equalize the dynamic, which definitely involves change on her part, but quite possibly on your own, as well.

January 31, 2016

OP, I think the way your financee is handling the situation is uncalled for, but I also wonder about your involvement. What types of messes are you making and leaving for her to clean up?

If you are going to assume the role of the child who makes messes he leaves for others to clean up, then it's not so shocking that she has taken on the role of parent. You need to equalize the dynamic, which definitely involves change on her part, but quite possibly on your own, as well.

Is that what a parent does to get her/his point across?

Threaten, storm off, emotionally abuse?

My mom and dad never treated me this way when I screwed up...did not "obey" or whatevs.

Maybe I got lucky in the parent department?

January 31, 2016

Is that what a parent does to get her/his point across?

Threaten, storm off, emotionally abuse?

My mom and dad never treated me this way when I screwed up...did not "obey" or whatevs.

Maybe I got lucky in the parent department?

I think the "storm off, emotionally abuse" is the punishment part of it. Parents punish unwanted behavior by stripping the child off of privileges like iphone and laptop and in this case she punishes the behavior she disproves by not giving him the love, respect and communication he would normally get if he was "a good boy"

January 31, 2016

I think the "storm off, emotionally abuse" is the punishment part of it. Parents punish unwanted behavior by stripping the child off of privileges like iphone and laptop and in this case she punishes the behavior she disproves by not giving him the love, respect and communication he would normally get if he was "a good boy"

*Punishing* behaviors have no place in any romantic relationship.

You're not happy about something your partner is doing/not doing? You communicate and discuss like a grown up.

That is even how my *parents* dealt with disobedience from any of us kids (six).

Sat us down and discussed why it was wrong ...and set boundaries.

Neither one ever stormed off, withheld love, attention...made threats and/or otherwise emotionally abused us. That's horrible.

Again, I guess I got lucky!

January 31, 2016

*Punishing* behaviors have no place in any romantic relationship.

You're not happy about something your partner is doing/not doing? You communicate and discuss like a grown up.

That is even how my *parents* dealt with disobedience from any of us kids (six).

Sat us down and discussed why it was wrong ...and set boundaries.

Neither one ever stormed off, withheld love, attention...made threats and/or otherwise emotionally abused us. That's horrible.

Again, I guess I got lucky!

Right or not, that's how some parents are dealing with bad behavior - by punishing it, aka letting the children bear the consequences of their bad behavior. Not everybody has the patience and understanding for their children as your parents did.

Of course it has no place in a romantic relationship, but this is what the OP is getting. Punished for a behavior she disapproves, be it not keeping it exactly as clean as she says it needs to be, talking in a tone she is not allowing him to talk in or expressing negative opinions about her. Nobody who sees their partner as an equal partner would ever set rules, allow/not allow, punish, doesn't have any other way than their way. That's what parents do, and not even very good parents. It has no place in adult-to-adult relationship and is sick, abusive way to feel in control of your partner...

January 31, 2016

I was in a relationship with a guy (not for too long, fortunately), who would set all the rules in our relationship. Breaking those rules would mean he'd be very angry, say how nice he is to me and how I need to thank him by doing exactly as he says. Like getting out of bed when he says it's time to get out. I could absolutely not sleep longer than he did and if I'd tell that I need just 30 min more, he would get upset and start yelling. Then he'd give me a cold treatment until I apologize while crying and telling I won't do that again. One of many examples.

January 31, 2016

Is that what a parent does to get her/his point across?

Threaten, storm off, emotionally abuse?

My mom and dad never treated me this way when I screwed up...did not "obey" or whatevs.

Maybe I got lucky in the parent department?

If he is constantly leaving messes behind and not making an effort--what does she need to do to send him a message?

January 31, 2016

I was in a relationship with a guy (not for too long, fortunately), who would set all the rules in our relationship. Breaking those rules would mean he'd be very angry, say how nice he is to me and how I need to thank him by doing exactly as he says. Like getting out of bed when he says it's time to get out. I could absolutely not sleep longer than he did and if I'd tell that I need just 30 min more, he would get upset and start yelling. Then he'd give me a cold treatment until I apologize while crying and telling I won't do that again. One of many examples.

That is a bad controlling relationship....

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Is this...emotional abuse?

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