When a woman says "women hate me".

[Aniela]

Women are catty by nature. The women who are not jealous are the ones who are pretty and get all the attention in the world. It's the one friend in the group who isn't the prettiest who is secretly jealous and privately wishes for the pretty girlfriend to fall on her face.

 

Why women call you a slut, Smackie? Obviously, they see you as a threat.

 

Wrong.

 

I asked why I was supposed to be jealous of someone, when accused. Nobody could answer me outright - except for the one who was stirring up all of the trouble. the one I was supposed to be jealous of - and she knew she was wrong.

[kendahke]

A buddy of mine told me that whenever a woman says "women hate me", she is trying to imply that they're all jealous, hence why they hate her.

 

Is this true? ...

 

In my experience, when women say that it's because they've done something to warrant it.

 

If more than 3 people say the same thing to/about you, then it's time to look at your policy for treating with people. Something is amiss.

 

I once had, I eventually discovered, an extremely toxic friend who said this. Said she didn't have many female friends; that eventually they dropped her friendship. Well the reason turned out to be that she was so toxic and competitive for male attention when out with her female friends that she couldn't stand for anyone except her to be the center of attention. She would go after you man if you didn't keep your eye on her--and then turn it around and make it your fault.

 

I'd gone out to hear some live music with my sister (A), another friend (B) and her © one night many years ago. One guy was talking to B and another guy there started talking to my sister and they hit it off pretty well. C kept trying to talk to B's guy and it got to the point where she was talking blatant sexual stuff with him. It was rather embarrassing. B just got up and left. Then C decided to interfere with my sister's guy, but he wouldn't pay her any attention. It so happened that C ended up staying the night at my house (she was in from out of town). The next morning, before the house was up, the phone rang, but I thought the answering machine got the call. Didn't think anything of it. A week later, my sister was wondering what happened to the guy she was talking to, so she called him up to say "hi" and his whole demeanor towards her had changed. She asked him what was up and he eventually told her that he'd called the next morning and C answered the phone. He said C said that A was desperate to get married, didn't know how to make a man happy, her past boyfriends complained she was lousy in bed and that she wasn't really a good fit for him. Mind you: my sister was not her friend and she'd never told her anything remotely like that. From that day forward, my sister has a seething hatred for her. I eventually developed an intense dislike for her and had the opportunity to use a verbal flame thrower on her a few years later for mess that she said got back to me. AGain, she tried to play it off like it was my fault and I was not having it. I hope she balled up in the fetal position when she was done reading my email.

 

That was my experience with one of those kinds of chicks. Confident competitive women don't try to kneecap other women. It's the insecure competitive women who do this mess.

Edited February 2, 2016 by kendahke

[serial muse]

I've never said out loud that women hate me but I don't get along well with most women. I am in a male dominated industry and am VERY logical so I don't understand the high pitched screams, cattiness, and similar stuff that I see so many women do. I tend to make friends with women who are drawn to the sciences, engineering, military, etc. I have learned I just don't fit well into a typical women's group. I also do very well with finding male friends and many of them have laughed when I have recounted my experiences with women and agreed.

 

In all honesty...I suspect that the above is kind of why many - if not all - women say this sort of thing. I don't necessarily think it's because she assumes other women are jealous. I think it's a kind of self-hating (sorry, Miss Peach) thing, and an attempt to please men. I would guess that most women who say these sad things are saying them to men, not women. That's because they think they'll fall on fertile ground. It's unfortunate for all, and makes me rather sad. It's so unnecessary.

 

After all, as many women as men are logical (yep, it's true) and I personally know very few women (and some men!) who are catty and scream and whatever. I think it's a real shame when a woman dismisses her own gender in that really global way. There's no such thing as a "typical women's group" - I mean, you admit you have female friends, but you somehow place them in a separate category. Why? They're women. They're female. And you like them. So it's not even exactly true.

 

Anyway, certainly, saying such stuff out loud to a group of men seems like an effective strategy to become part of the group. (Although there are, thank goodness, many men who would also raise an eyebrow at this sort of thing.)

Edited February 2, 2016 by serial muse

[smackie9]

Women are catty by nature. The women who are not jealous are the ones who are pretty and get all the attention in the world. It's the one friend in the group who isn't the prettiest who is secretly jealous and privately wishes for the pretty girlfriend to fall on her face.

 

Why women call you a slut, Smackie? Obviously, they see you as a threat.

Because I am confident, and get along on a level with men they can't I'm guessing...I'm a tomboy, I can talk about cars, guns, sports or whatever guys like to talk about. Guys are naturally drawn to me that way. I don't have to show cleavage, or twirl my hair to get their attention.

[basil67]

I should clarify: I mean women who demean the idea of feminity. Feminity can mean many things, from pearls to Rosie the Riveter to felling trees in the woods.

 

A woman who is anti-feminine is one who seems to go to great lengths to avoid being a woman, so to speak. They bash women with the bitterest of men in some odd attempt to be "one of the guys." These women are typically unmarried but have no problem bashing wives and childless but with no shortage of opinions on how children should be raised.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I've never heard of this type of behaviour before. Thankfully it's probably not that common.

[Aniela]

Because I am confident, and get along on a level with men they can't I'm guessing...I'm a tomboy, I can talk about cars, guns, sports or whatever guys like to talk about. Guys are naturally drawn to me that way. I don't have to show cleavage, or twirl my hair to get their attention.

 

I get along with men, don't show cleavage or twirl my hair, and most women like me. They get along with men, too.

[Aniela]

In all honesty...I suspect that the above is kind of why many - if not all - women say this sort of thing. I don't necessarily think it's because she assumes other women are jealous. I think it's a kind of self-hating (sorry, Miss Peach) thing, and an attempt to please men. I would guess that most women who say these sad things are saying them to men, not women. That's because they think they'll fall on fertile ground. It's unfortunate for all, and makes me rather sad. It's so unnecessary.

 

After all, as many women as men are logical (yep, it's true) and I personally know very few women (and some men!) who are catty and scream and whatever. I think it's a real shame when a woman dismisses her own gender in that really global way. There's no such thing as a "typical women's group" - I mean, you admit you have female friends, but you somehow place them in a separate category. Why? They're women. They're female. And you like them. So it's not even exactly true.

 

Anyway, certainly, saying such stuff out loud to a group of men seems like an effective strategy to become part of the group. (Although there are, thank goodness, many men who would also raise an eyebrow at this sort of thing.)

 

And men sitting around talking that way, could be considered "catty".

[Maggie4]

After all, as many women as men are logical (yep, it's true) and I personally know very few women (and some men!) who are catty and scream and whatever. I think it's a real shame when a woman dismisses her own gender in that really global way.

 

This is so true. You don't know someone until you know how their mind works. It goes much deeper than how you look, dress, what your interests are, or even how you get along in a group.

[Buddhist]

I think it's a kind of self-hating (sorry, Miss Peach) thing, and an attempt to please men. I would guess that most women who say these sad things are saying them to men, not women. That's because they think they'll fall on fertile ground. It's unfortunate for all, and makes me rather sad. It's so unnecessary.

 

I don't agree with that at all. It's a gross generalisation that doesn't take into account personality differences. If you study personality theory which yes is not an exact science but a social science and could be dismissed on those grounds, you will find similarities and differences between individuals. This is not insignificant at all.

 

No-one gets along with absolutely everyone, therefore we can conclude that personality differences can cause two people to not get along. If we also take into account social programming based on gender, of which this thread has some excellent examples (women should never blow their own horn, women shouldn't do this or that) then what you will find is that the subset of people who conform to social norms in their values, personality expression and social interactions are generally more accepted by others than those who don't.

 

I personally do not display a lot of extroverted feeling in my interpersonal interactions. It's not a large part of my natural personality and also my upbringing did not school me very well in this. Most women do display a lot of it. It's a common personality expression and also socially schooled into most females.

 

So when someone is expressing their sadness, hurt or whatever I do not immediately know the socially accepted response to this and don't express it. That in itself has made me suspect in many people's eyes. It's not my fault, I just didn't grow up around well socialised individuals and as a result failed to develop this aspect myself. Someone who did grow up in a well socialised environment cannot understand my confusion in those moments and generally judges my actions as being that of an unsympathetic person or indicative of some mental malfunction.

 

That snap judgement is made within seconds and without regard to knowing me as an individual at all. It's what people commonly call a red flag and as we all know, when someone see's a red flag their immediate response is to the ostracise that person and pay them no further regard.

 

I don't go and talk to males in a self-hating defence mechanism or because I'm rejecting my womanhood. I talk to males because they display a similar lack of emotional response and therefore I am unlikely to be harshly judged for this lack in me. To them, it seems quite normal. A lot of the very judgemental attitudes in this thread display the kind of thing I've just explained. People who don't immediately fit into social norms do get ostracised and fairly quickly without further investigation into why they display the traits they do and often without regard to who they really are as individuals.

 

Now granted, someone like me isn't all that common. I am the product of having a fairly rare personality makeup combined with poor social upbringing. But absolutely no-one who meets me is interested in understanding that. All they do is take one look and at the first sign of difference decide it's a red flag and they have no further use for me. I've been working on my social skills for over 30yrs now, I've probably developed it as far as it will go but I am still noticeably different to other women in my expression and that does go against me. Those who persist in getting to know me find out I'm one of the mot harmless people around, good for them.

 

I just get sick of well normalised people making gross assumptions that absolutely everyone has the same opportunity for development, the same personality and therefore anyone who doesn't fit in must be defective on some level. It's a knee-jerk reaction and is often trotted out as gospel.

[Aniela]

Buddhist, I mentioned before that I *have* been ostracized. In school and even by members of my own family - which I still don't understand. I saw your post earlier, and thought you would be someone that I get along with.

 

There are also times when my own insecurities and defensiveness have brought about a reaction. I'm speaking from experience myself. I dropped out of school due to bullying, and didn't really try to make friends for years. I still sometimes worry that people will turn on me, just because it's happened before (just a few years ago). I've also had other women treat me kindly, and I'm extremely grateful to them. One of them is the woman you quoted in your post above: serial muse. I really doubt that I would hate you, if I knew you offline. SOME women can be that way, as can some men. I don't think it's a gender thing. But I feel that way about a lot of things.

[Buddhist]

Whether or not you like Serial_Muse is beside the point. I just take exception to the fact that she publicly implied Miss Peach is somehow a self-hating individual seeking induction into a male group by rejecting women, when in actual fact there is zero evidence to support that.

 

Miss Peach didn't even say she had a problem with women. But that her personal expression means it's easier for her to communicate with men. Well we can hardly conclude she is somehow defective on the basis of that let alone publicly imply that she has serious internal issues. It's a very good example of the kind of public shaming that goes on in groups of people. The most popular train of thought usually wins regardless of how erroneous it may be.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Buddhist

[serial muse]

Whether or not you like Serial_Muse is beside the point. I just take exception to the fact that she publicly implied Miss Peach is somehow a self-hating individual seeking induction into a male group by rejecting women, when in actual fact there is zero evidence to support that.

 

Miss Peach didn't even say she had a problem with women. But that her personal expression means it's easier for her to communicate with men. Well we can hardly conclude she is somehow defective on the basis of that let alone publicly imply that she has serious internal issues. It's a very good example of the kind of public shaming that goes on in groups of people. The most popular train of thought usually wins regardless of how erroneous it may be.

 

If you truly felt this way, I wonder that you don't object to the generalizing of women as catty or screeching or illogical. This is very inconsistent. Frankly, I am objecting to the idea of shaming women as a group. I'd think you'd be on board with that, based on the above. Despite the fact that shaming of women as a group is the most popular train of thought here in this thread. Sigh. But we agree that it's erroneous, at least.

 

As for your earlier post, it isn't really relevant to me or the points I made (naturally personality differences cause two people not to get along, but that has exactly zip to do with the concept of typical women's groups or screeching or so forth, and as an introvert myself I certainly understand difficulties expressing myself to people, but again that has exactly zip to do with the point I made, which is that globally dismissing WOMEN as this or that or the other is silly, and suggests a dislike for "women" in some way that doesn't even make any sense in the real world), so I'll just stop here.

 

No, actually, I'll add one more thing. I'm not attempting to "shame" Miss Peach. I said quite plainly that I think it's sad to hate on your own gender, as well as illogical. I seriously hope she and others who have expressed these sorts of thoughts will reconsider them. When a person says in one breath "I don't act like other women/I don't get along with them" and then says "I have female friends who also aren't like other women, and that's why I like them" ...well, I hope it would be plain as day that there's a huge fallacy inherent in that. Everyone likes some people and doesn't like others, and "gets" some people and doesn't "get" others. It's the extrapolation of that to male-female generalities that makes no sense, and I would say is actively harmful, in fact. Call that shaming if you must, but I think it's really an inverted perspective on the situation. Putting down an entire gender, except for a favored few, is the shaming behavior, IMO - what on Earth is to be gained from this, I ask? This is not a live-and-let-live perspective, and it's one that is all too prevalent - the idea that men's behavior is positive and women's is negative (even independent of actual observed behavior - this is just based on assumptions!). True, I don't know her or anyone else's motivation for doing it; I expressed a suspicion but of course I'm not in her head. But I'm offering another way to look at the general issue, because this isn't about any one poster but about a larger problem, and it seems as valid as any other, in the context of the OP.

Edited February 8, 2016 by serial muse

[lino]

Instant red flag for me. I've never had good experiences with women who say that.

 

If nearly everyone dislikes someone or something there is usually a good reason.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Women are catty by nature. The women who are not jealous are the ones who are pretty and get all the attention in the world. It's the one friend in the group who isn't the prettiest who is secretly jealous and privately wishes for the pretty girlfriend to fall on her face.

So very untrue. :(

[Cappycorny]

A buddy of mine told me that whenever a woman says "women hate me", she is trying to imply that they're all jealous, hence why they hate her.

 

Is this true?

 

I know some women who are always hated, and these women are intelligent, beautiful, confident and whatever other wonderful qualities they have. Women always hate them, but when they say so, all of a sudden people look down on her and think "she's just saying that to look better."

 

Is that what men really think? Because some women really ARE hated by most other women, and believe me, that's not fun, so it wouldn't be something we would say just for the hell of it...

 

Bottom line! Insecure woman for what ever the reason are the haters. Haters hate when something is wrong within them!