ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme I don't care if some twerp decides to write a book and further the abuse of the whole idea of 'nice'. He's still wrong. You are sooooooooooo wrong. The book doesn't abuse the word NICE at all. I can tell you myself from reading the book that it showed me how little self-confidence and respect I had for myself contributed to the demise of my relationship. No woman wants to be with a man who has no self-confidence. Self-confidence is sexy. You know it, I know it. All "No More Mr. Nice Guy" teaches is men to embrace their masculinity, to love themselves and realize that it's ok to have needs. It teaches "nice guys" to learn to STOP using "covert contracts" and stop being "caregivers/caretakers" and it teaches them BOUNDARIES. It makes them a MAN. A man you would love and respect. Nobody wants a soft, clingy, girlie-man. Women all over should be thanking Robert A. Glover for the book. It gives men their b*lls back and makes them the kind of men women want. Strong. Confident. Self-Assured. Comfortable with their masculinity. Every guy needs to read that book.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by Tony I also agree that the term "nice guys" ought to be replaced by the term "door mats." Most respectable women will be repulsed by a man who gives up his entire being in order to cater to her every whim...that is clearly being a door mat. So let it be done. For now on, I used to be a "door mat." I've always been nice but the book has shown me that I have needs that should be met too and that I can be liked and loved for being nothing other than myself.
Tony Posted June 11, 2005 Senior Moderators Posted June 11, 2005 I think Nice Guy Syndrome ought to be in the category of other psychological maladies. One who exhibits the characteristics and behavior of one who has no boundaries and who is nice beyond that which is reasonably necessary to carry on life on this planet has serious issues which must be addressed by a therapist or worked on through reading and behavioral modification. The problem is by no means simplistic and people who are nice to a fault have to work very hard to overcome this ailment if they are to have a healthy relationships with other people and an efficient existence on planet Earth. The description "Nice guy" or "Nice girl" are simply part of the nomenclature of the disorder classification. Those terms simply refer to individuals who exhibit behavior that, if continued, will cause chaos and destruction in their relationships. It is, in my opinion, one of the saddest things on earth to watch one of these pathetic individuals in action. It's even worse to be around one who has been cured and wishes he or she could go back in time and correct the nauseating, sickening behaviors that alienated them from so many people in the past they thought this type of saccharin behavior would impress and endear them to.
moimeme Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 One would hope that part of the cure would be them forgiving themselves for having been Flawed Human Beings...
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by Tony I think Nice Guy Syndrome ought to be in the category of other psychological maladies. One who exhibits the characteristics and behavior of one who has no boundaries and who is nice beyond that which is reasonably necessary to carry on life on this planet has serious issues which must be addressed by a therapist or worked on through reading and behavioral modification. If you have self-discipline, I think just reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" would be a sufficient eye-opener for most men. Just realizing what they are doing (I was guilty of it myself) is 1/2 the battle. Reading the book will put them in the right frame of mind. For those with less discipline, yes I agree Therapy would be good. I am using a combination of both and each day I get stronger. The problem is by no means simplistic and people who are nice to a fault have to work very hard to overcome this ailment if they are to have a healthy relationships with other people and an efficient existence on planet Earth. The description "Nice guy" or "Nice girl" are simply part of the nomenclature of the disorder classification. Those terms simply refer to individuals who exhibit behavior that, if continued, will cause chaos and destruction in their relationships. Agreed. But they first have to understand THEY have a problem. Many "door mats" don't understand they have a problem and they need to resolve it. That is why I said earlier to someone else "When a relationship ends, don't focus on what THEY did wrong, focus on YOU!" But to get a "door mat" to understand they are a door mat takes time. LS offers a lot of help in that regard but still it requires the intestinal fortitude to come to a place like this and find the answers. It is, in my opinion, one of the saddest things on earth to watch one of these pathetic individuals in action. It's even worse to be around one who has been cured and wishes he or she could go back in time and correct the nauseating, sickening behaviors that alienated them from so many people in the past they thought this type of saccharin behavior would impress and endear them to. *raises hand* That's me, Tony. To a "T"......
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme One would hope that part of the cure would be them forgiving themselves for having been Flawed Human Beings... That's part of it, Moi. Here's what the problems are that define a "door mat": 1. They have "toxic shame", defined as "I don't feel I am of value, worthy of being loved. That is the core of the problem. LOW or NO self-esteem or sense of worth. They don't like themselves so obviously nobody else will like them either. 2. In order to cure the toxic shame, they look to others for approval. They do this by being overly nice, going out of their way to meet the needs of others while their needs go unmet. 3. In the process of meeting other's needs, they create "Covert Contracts" which could be akin to "Quid Pro Quo" in reverse. "I do something nice for you so that you'll do something nice for me in return." only you aren't telling your S/O of the contract and you're not even consciously aware of it. 4. They DEFINITELY do not understand the value of setting boundaries and even if they set them, they rarely, if ever, have repercussions for crossing them. 5. They usually, but not always, have a problem accepting their own masculinity. 6. They usually, but not always, don't understand how to properly express their feelings. 7. They usually, but not always, have low integrity. This is the basic core of what a "door mat" (aka: "Nice Guy") is. Understanding these issues and overcoming them are not easy. But it can be done. Pushing "No More Mr. Nice Guy" as much as I can I feel is my civic duty to door mats across the globe. I am trying to help empower men and stop them from making the same mistakes I did.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by BigB We really need to replace this stupid "nice guy" term with DOOR-MAT. Nice guy should equal a nice balanced good dude. The kind that the girls are talking about wanting. Door-mat is the weak, push over type that often get's called a "nice guy" Door-mat=Nice Guy because the guys who are door mats think they are just "nice guys." A nice, equally balanced dude should be called "Nicely Balanced" for now on. So we have the full gamut: Nice Guy = Door Mat Nicely Balanced Guy = Ideal Bad Boy = Antithesis of "Nice Guy"
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 My home-brew un-scientific theory is that "nice guy/door-mat" syndrome originates with our mothers. Son's of overbearing controlling mothers, and in some cases family's without a father, don't have a proper example of how to be man. Don't get me wrong, I love my parents, but... My mom is very controlling she runs the family, no one is allowed to stick up for themselves, it's her way or the highway, she treats my dad like an employee, he hides everything from her because he's afraid of her, or he's afraid of making her angry or upset. I'm starting to realize that this behavior rubbed off on me and my relationship with my EXGF, I'd give in and do what she wanted, because I was afraid of making her mad or unhappy. but I'm more strong willed than my dad so eventually it'd blow up in my face and cause and argument. I've also learned that I need to stay FAAAAAAAAR away from overbearing controlling girlfriends that are similar to my mother. I was watching my friend recently interacting with his wife, she got a little bitchy and he quickly stood up for him self and pushed her right back into a better state of mind with 2 sentences and a big grin. I realized that she was happy that he stood up for himself, (she was smiling, almost like it turned her on ) my dad would've reacted with fear, he'd have recoiled like a puppy who'd been hit to many times. just some weird theory... 2cents.. whatever...
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Door-mat=Nice Guy because the guys who are door mats think they are just "nice guys." A nice, equally balanced dude should be called "Nicely Balanced" for now on. So we have the full gamut: Nice Guy = Door Mat Nicely Balanced Guy = Ideal Bad Boy = Antithesis of "Nice Guy" agreed, it just seems that every time we have a topic like this someone get's upset because they like nice guys, and don't like bad boys. What they don't realize is that the've only met the bad boys and the balanced guys, they haven't yet met a door mat or they'd understand... it's just a confusing term, that's all...
moimeme Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 They have "toxic shame", defined as "I don't feel I am of value, worthy of being loved. That is the core of the problem. LOW or NO self-esteem or sense of worth. They don't like themselves so obviously nobody else will like them either. Which only continues if they berate themselves further once they've shed the doormat syndrome My home-brew un-scientific theory is that "nice guy/door-mat" syndrome originates with our mothers. Son's of overbearing controlling mothers, and in some cases family's without a father, don't have a proper example of how to be man. You can only control someone who allows him/herself to be controlled. So, unfortunately, this has much more to do with your dad, whose behaviour you likely emulate. It's true parents and parental relationships do have something to do with how kids turn out but it's not a guaranteed cause-effect correlation. They used to blame mothers for schizophrenia, too. People have tried to control me. And utterly failed. So it's about being strong within yourself, not about blaming others for how they behave. There are some dogs that'll run away whimpering if you threaten them and others that will bite you on the arm. And that didn't have to do with their mothers
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Here's what the problems are that define a "door mat": Pushing "No More Mr. Nice Guy" as much as I can I feel is my civic duty to door mats across the globe. I am trying to help empower men and stop them from making the same mistakes I did. crap..a lot of that sounds like me... *goes to order the book*
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by BigB My home-brew un-scientific theory is that "nice guy/door-mat" syndrome originates with our mothers. Son's of overbearing controlling mothers, and in some cases family's without a father, don't have a proper example of how to be man. just some weird theory... 2cents.. whatever... Actually, this is EXACTLY what NMMNG says as far as how men lose their masculinity and seek approval from women.... READ THE BOOK, B!
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Which only continues if they berate themselves further once they've shed the doormat syndrome Once they shed the door mat syndrome completely, they will accept their human flaws and no longer berate themselves. See, I am on the path to recovery. Where I falter is this: I miss what my Ex provided to me more than I think I miss my ex. I miss the feeling of being connected with someone, to sleep/wake up next to her, to share my day with. Without her, I feel like half a person. I understand now fully what that lame a*sed line "You complete me!" means... As I am recovering, I am learning how little she deserved a guy like me. But my heart is fighting with my head as I recover so I make some stupid statements about my Ex. I miss her, really I do. But I don't love the person she is. I love the person I MADE HER OUT TO BE. There's a big difference. Each day I make a step forward. I am learning to be comfortable in my own skin and like who I am (Notice the new pic?). Once I have completely recovered, I will realize what a loser she is and how stupid I was for bending over backwards for her.
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme You can only control someone who allows him/herself to be controlled. So, unfortunately, this has much more to do with your dad, whose behaviour you likely emulate. It's true parents and parental relationships do have something to do with how kids turn out but it's not a guaranteed cause-effect correlation. They used to blame mothers for schizophrenia, too. People have tried to control me. And utterly failed. So it's about being strong within yourself, not about blaming others for how they behave. There are some dogs that'll run away whimpering if you threaten them and others that will bite you on the arm. And that didn't have to do with their mothers Agreed Moi, that should have said parents, not mothers. I'm not saying our parents alway define how we act, but it does effect us. For example children of abusive or alcoholic parents often exhibit some of the same behaviors as their parents. They create drama because it feels normal.. They often need counseling or some form of help to "break the cycle". If I recognize this in myself, and work on it, I can improve on it. Part of that, for me, is making sure I avoid dating women who will take advantage of those qualities within myself. Just like some women can be taken advantage of by abusive men, and other won't stand for it. "nice guys/door-mats" can be taken advantage of by women, and need to learn that it's OK to take a stand. man.. sometimes these threads make me feel like I should go see a shrink.
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Once I have completely recovered, I will realize what a loser she is and how stupid I was for bending over backwards for her. Hopefully this will happen right before she tries to come back, you can kick her to the curb, and then you'll be on top of the world.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by BigB Hopefully this will happen right before she tries to come back, you can kick her to the curb, and then you'll be on top of the world. I have a feeling, B, this will be sooner rather than later. She's on a course right now to come crashing down in a few weeks. I shouldn't be giddy about it, because that is not the Christian way, but a piece of me is saying: "KARMA IS A B*TCH!!!!" PS: BigB, my Ex is in San Jose and has been for the past week. She is going to be there until next Sunday. Do me a favor and go find her bike and pop the tires. I don't want her back here.... JUST KIDDING!
BigB Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC I have a feeling, B, this will be sooner rather than later. She's on a course right now to come crashing down in a few weeks. I shouldn't be giddy about it, because that is not the Christian way, but a piece of me is saying: "KARMA IS A B*TCH!!!!" I'll be giddy about for you. Serves her right. Have you seen the movie Swingers? The main character is crying and sitting at home in the dark, upset about his GF who left him for most of the movie. His buddies try and try to get him to go out and meet girls. On the day he finally meets a girl he likes, his EXGF calls (he's been checking his machine constantly waiting for her call) during this call the new girl calls, he clicks over and hears that it's her, and then proceeds to blow of the EXGF's call because he realizes he'd rather be talking to the new girl. It's classic.
westernxer Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 My view on this is very simple: Guy is a pushover = P*ssy Guy is balanced = Cool Guy needs to grow up = D*ck That's as far as I'm gonna go. Right now I'd like to be the third option with Mrs. Robinson (am watching "The Graduate" right now. Sort of...).
ConfusedInOC Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by BigB I'll be giddy about for you. Serves her right. Have you seen the movie Swingers? The main character is crying and sitting at home in the dark, upset about his GF who left him for most of the movie. His buddies try and try to get him to go out and meet girls. On the day he finally meets a girl he likes, his EXGF calls (he's been checking his machine constantly waiting for her call) during this call the new girl calls, he clicks over and hears that it's her, and then proceeds to blow of the EXGF's call because he realizes he'd rather be talking to the new girl. It's classic. Hehe, that's pretty funny. Never saw the movie but I will tell you this: I DO believe she will come to rue the day she made the decision to go "sow her wild oats." Because what she is learning is a hard lesson on complacency and "unrealistic expectations." She wants a man to fly down from Heaven on a White Horse. I hope she gets trampled in the process. Oops. Did I say that?! :lmao
faux Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by John Charles who wins the most girls? nice guys or the jerks. support your theory... again this child i deciding which man to become to be most successful with the ladies.... Jerks 'win' the most girls. I do not need to support such a theory; anyone can see this by observing everyday life. You cannot choose which two types of man, jerk or nice guy, you will become. You either are the jerk type, or you are not.
moimeme Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Jerks 'win' the most girls. I do not need to support such a theory; anyone can see this by observing everyday life.
alphamale Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Right now I'd like to be the third option with Mrs. Robinson (am watching "The Graduate" right now. Sort of...). Heh heh, great flick....the actress who played Mrs. R just died the other day. Can't remember her name but she is only 4 yrs older than Dustin Hofman but played a woman 20 yrs his senior in the movie.
lindya Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 There's always the risk that someone (male or female) who attracts a lot of admirers will let success go to their head and begin acting like a jerk. Particularly if they don't have many other qualities to recommend them. Others may adopt the misguided view that the secret of the popular individual's success lies in his or her more negative attributes.
moimeme Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Others may adopt the misguided view that the secret of the popular individual's success lies in his or her more negative attributes. I'm more inclined to think that 'jerk' means 'the guy who hooked the gal I wanted' Really and truly, how many humans, having been rejected or passed over in favour of a rival, will then say 'oh, well it's understandable that Miss/Mr. Perfect chose Y instead of me since Y clearly has so much more value as a human being than do I'?
lindya Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme I'm more inclined to think that 'jerk' means 'the guy who hooked the gal I wanted' Really and truly, how many humans, having been rejected or passed over in favour of a rival, will then say 'oh, well it's understandable that Miss/Mr. Perfect chose Y instead of me since Y clearly has so much more value as a human being than do I'? True. Then there's the wishful thinking that says "He/she is a lowlife, and my ex will get the come-uppance they deserve for rejecting the better being that is me."
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