Are his excuses legitimate or is he just losing interest?

[PacificPlain]

Last night there was a music event (a group he actually initially told me about, and who's music as a really nice sound) I wanted to go to. I texted him at 6 and asked what he was up to, and he told me was going and asked what I was doing. For me that's not a "I'm inviting you" just "I'm going". I was planning on going alone anyways. So I went, and he came, and we went around a bit and had a few drinks. He by his own admission is very handsy, but he made no attempt to touch me or kiss me. So I figured he's just kind of over it. Meanwhile, I'm buzzed and it's hard for me to hide the fact I'm a little into him. We ran into a girl he use to hook up with. We saw and waved to my own ex.

 

Just before I left I asked what he was doing tomorrow (Saturday). I told him I want Thai food. He replied "well I want Chinese." And then he continued "I'm going to call you in the morning."

And then just before I left, he grabbed me and kissed me. Not a short kiss, either.

 

Then I had to go, and he texted me later hammered.

Apparently just after I left he ran into a friend and he drank all night heavily.

 

We've texted a little today. I know he's in bed. I last texted him at 2, saying I guess he never got his Chinese food. No reply. I guess I was hoping he'd ask if I'd come over. Yet nothing. Hangover nap and I'm overly paranoid, or he's just ignoring me and doesn't want anything to do with me?

 

I guess it's time to let him go but I do really just want to ask him straight up in a text just for clarity "hey i get the vibe I'm bothering you, or the feeling as subsided. If that's the case I will leave you be and stop pressuring you and inviting you to things." Does that make me creepy clingy or just no nonsense?

[Versacehottie]

Last night there was a music event (a group he actually initially told me about, and who's music as a really nice sound) I wanted to go to. I texted him at 6 and asked what he was up to, and he told me was going and asked what I was doing. For me that's not a "I'm inviting you" just "I'm going". I was planning on going alone anyways. So I went, and he came, and we went around a bit and had a few drinks. He by his own admission is very handsy, but he made no attempt to touch me or kiss me. So I figured he's just kind of over it. Meanwhile, I'm buzzed and it's hard for me to hide the fact I'm a little into him. We ran into a girl he use to hook up with. We saw and waved to my own ex.

 

Just before I left I asked what he was doing tomorrow (Saturday). I told him I want Thai food. He replied "well I want Chinese." And then he continued "I'm going to call you in the morning."

And then just before I left, he grabbed me and kissed me. Not a short kiss, either.

 

Then I had to go, and he texted me later hammered.

Apparently just after I left he ran into a friend and he drank all night heavily.

 

We've texted a little today. I know he's in bed. I last texted him at 2, saying I guess he never got his Chinese food. No reply. I guess I was hoping he'd ask if I'd come over. Yet nothing. Hangover nap and I'm overly paranoid, or he's just ignoring me and doesn't want anything to do with me?

 

I guess it's time to let him go but I do really just want to ask him straight up in a text just for clarity "hey i get the vibe I'm bothering you, or the feeling as subsided. If that's the case I will leave you be and stop pressuring you and inviting you to things." Does that make me creepy clingy or just no nonsense?

 

Well, I was thinking he liked you but was just sick for real. But I think your impatience is starting to factor in--coming off as neediness, chasing or something he is not ready for. I'm still not saying he wasn't legitimately sick--my friend just told me hers lasted for 3 weeks and I'm on 2 weeks! Even if he was out (which I have done too), he could be so run down.

 

Anyway, with the new info you just gave, you need to pull way back. Let him contact you and make the attempts to see you. Drunk, late night texts don't count. Both texting him about the show and then asking what he was doing today are clingy and too available, IMO. If you had just gone to the show and bumped into him ok--that's more no nonsense. Even better, don't go and be patient about him and go on with your life, letting him wonder where you are and what you are up to. I don't think he doesn't like you. I think he could be losing interest now though, due to you being "right there". See how he is being lazy with effort since you are hinting around at dates that you will make yourself available for? You hint by saying you want Thai food. He implies no or he wants a challenge (from you) by saying he wants Chinese. You should have said something smart-a** or challenge him right back playfully, letting him know he potentially lost his chance with you--well at least for spending saturday getting some Thai food. That's first choice. If your personality is more serious or straightforward, then you should have immediately said, oh some other time then (if you are lucky, is implied! I would have just said that "if you're lucky!" but I am always playful).

 

No, IMO, I wouldn't ask for clarity in the way you worded it. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't ask that at all yet. It's not played out yet and your impatience is already getting the best of you and I think factoring into how he feels about you. Why would you be asking? Really? I get the sense that you still want to date this guy (nothing wrong with that), so if you want to do that, than still play to win. Then the next time he tries to ask you out or hang out with you, perhaps you can say the CONFIDENT version of what you were planning to say BEFORE you agree to go and only go if his answer is sufficient.

 

The wording above does not convey confidence. It's worded like you've already lost and that you are not a prize or on equal footing. You are also planting the seed that you are a pest or pressure which may not even be the reasons (or he didn't think of them in those terms, which are really negative towards yourself). Something more like: I don't want to waste my time with someone who is not on same page with me or I only want to invest in someone I see as someone who could be someone I could progress with. Ugh, my wording on the spot is not the best but the friendly version of something like that in your own words. See you would be posing it like you are moving on if he can't meet your standards, automatically implies you are valuable. There are different camps who believe a conversation is necessary---I don't always think so, because I think you can do as much with your actions and other things you say. But each person needs to do what is right for them. I do think a "talk" ultimately is again more pressure. It's not like he doesn't deserve some pressure but you can do that with your standards and way you treat him, things you agree to or way you respond to him too. Long game vs a short game blow up. I also think when a person choses to do a talk basically to alleviate their own anxiety (in these initial dating stages), it's never a good idea. I think if you explore why you are doing it and what your true words would be (rather than the ones above which sound like "throw in towel" type stuff, falling on your own knife because you are presuming it's just a matter of time before he does it and also are basically asking--somewhat pathetically--for him to reassure you, which I don't think he will do in an honest manner if you word like that or from that outlook).

 

If the real goal is to win over this guy OR if you think he may be losing interest but that you would want him in your back pocket in the future, you don't need to do a thing. Pull back, let him make the next move for contact. If he contacts but does not immediately ask for a date, take it just as that: breezy contact among friends/flirting and respond accordingly and not too quick or gf like. He may do that as a warm up after he's realized you've pulled back without risking getting outright rejected. Change your mindset. He seems fun and it MIGHT be fun to date him; you still don't know even about him though to know if that's where you want to make your investment of time and effort--he'll need to prove to you that he's worth it. Right now you are approaching it from the opposite mindset, which isn't helping your cause. You just need to mentally push him to back burner and rotate other interests or guys in until he steps it up. It doesn't have to be black or white, keep him or let him go. He's not doing enough to "keep" and if you can manage yourself there's no reason not to keep him in your back pocket. ok, good luck

[PacificPlain]

Well, I was thinking he liked you but was just sick for real. But I think your impatience is starting to factor in--coming off as neediness, chasing or something he is not ready for. I'm still not saying he wasn't legitimately sick--my friend just told me hers lasted for 3 weeks and I'm on 2 weeks! Even if he was out (which I have done too), he could be so run down.

 

Anyway, with the new info you just gave, you need to pull way back. Let him contact you and make the attempts to see you. Drunk, late night texts don't count. Both texting him about the show and then asking what he was doing today are clingy and too available, IMO. If you had just gone to the show and bumped into him ok--that's more no nonsense. Even better, don't go and be patient about him and go on with your life, letting him wonder where you are and what you are up to. I don't think he doesn't like you. I think he could be losing interest now though, due to you being "right there". See how he is being lazy with effort since you are hinting around at dates that you will make yourself available for? You hint by saying you want Thai food. He implies no or he wants a challenge (from you) by saying he wants Chinese. You should have said something smart-a** or challenge him right back playfully, letting him know he potentially lost his chance with you--well at least for spending saturday getting some Thai food. That's first choice. If your personality is more serious or straightforward, then you should have immediately said, oh some other time then (if you are lucky, is implied! I would have just said that "if you're lucky!" but I am always playful).

 

No, IMO, I wouldn't ask for clarity in the way you worded it. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't ask that at all yet. It's not played out yet and your impatience is already getting the best of you and I think factoring into how he feels about you. Why would you be asking? Really? I get the sense that you still want to date this guy (nothing wrong with that), so if you want to do that, than still play to win. Then the next time he tries to ask you out or hang out with you, perhaps you can say the CONFIDENT version of what you were planning to say BEFORE you agree to go and only go if his answer is sufficient.

 

The wording above does not convey confidence. It's worded like you've already lost and that you are not a prize or on equal footing. You are also planting the seed that you are a pest or pressure which may not even be the reasons (or he didn't think of them in those terms, which are really negative towards yourself). Something more like: I don't want to waste my time with someone who is not on same page with me or I only want to invest in someone I see as someone who could be someone I could progress with. Ugh, my wording on the spot is not the best but the friendly version of something like that in your own words. See you would be posing it like you are moving on if he can't meet your standards, automatically implies you are valuable. There are different camps who believe a conversation is necessary---I don't always think so, because I think you can do as much with your actions and other things you say. But each person needs to do what is right for them. I do think a "talk" ultimately is again more pressure. It's not like he doesn't deserve some pressure but you can do that with your standards and way you treat him, things you agree to or way you respond to him too. Long game vs a short game blow up. I also think when a person choses to do a talk basically to alleviate their own anxiety (in these initial dating stages), it's never a good idea. I think if you explore why you are doing it and what your true words would be (rather than the ones above which sound like "throw in towel" type stuff, falling on your own knife because you are presuming it's just a matter of time before he does it and also are basically asking--somewhat pathetically--for him to reassure you, which I don't think he will do in an honest manner if you word like that or from that outlook).

 

If the real goal is to win over this guy OR if you think he may be losing interest but that you would want him in your back pocket in the future, you don't need to do a thing. Pull back, let him make the next move for contact. If he contacts but does not immediately ask for a date, take it just as that: breezy contact among friends/flirting and respond accordingly and not too quick or gf like. He may do that as a warm up after he's realized you've pulled back without risking getting outright rejected. Change your mindset. He seems fun and it MIGHT be fun to date him; you still don't know even about him though to know if that's where you want to make your investment of time and effort--he'll need to prove to you that he's worth it. Right now you are approaching it from the opposite mindset, which isn't helping your cause. You just need to mentally push him to back burner and rotate other interests or guys in until he steps it up. It doesn't have to be black or white, keep him or let him go. He's not doing enough to "keep" and if you can manage yourself there's no reason not to keep him in your back pocket. ok, good luck

 

Versace, he never has replied. The next time he texts me (if that happens) should I just not reply? Just let him text me a few times before I bother (that way if he gives up I know I mean even less than I thought to him, and if he does actually step it up, it shows he enjoys my company)?

 

Time to just distance myself. I'm the person who typically has problems developing feelings for someone (example: I know I'm this way, so I've definitely dated guys that I didn't dislike, but didn't really care one way or the other. I'm also the one most likely not to reply after a couple tinder messages (nothing personal, just why bother?), and most likely to end things when I am actually seeing someone), so the VERY unusual situation that I actually DO like someone--like this, and actually ENJOY being with them--makes it frustrating.

 

Ps. Guess WHO woke up sick today?

Edited January 31, 2016 by PacificPlain

[Versacehottie]

Versace, he never has replied. The next time he texts me (if that happens) should I just not reply? Just let him text me a few times before I bother (that way if he gives up I know I mean even less than I thought to him, and if he does actually step it up, it shows he enjoys my company)?

 

Time to just distance myself. I'm the person who typically has problems developing feelings for someone (example: I know I'm this way, so I've definitely dated guys that I didn't dislike, but didn't really care one way or the other. I'm also the one most likely not to reply after a couple tinder messages (nothing personal, just why bother?), and most likely to end things when I am actually seeing someone), so the VERY unusual situation that I actually DO like someone--like this, and actually ENJOY being with them--makes it frustrating.

 

Ps. Guess WHO woke up sick today?

 

Oh no, about the sickness. It's awful.

 

Ok, I'm guessing he will get around to texting you either with some lame excuse or wait long enough that he won't have to address it. If you typically reply pretty quick, like 10-15 minutes, I would say reply but take 4-5 hours. LOL. It's a game but what you want to convey is indifference which is part of reason for long reply. Or if you typically take a few hours to reply, then reply next day. You don't want to look like he has bent you out of shape. Indifference. Show that you are a happy person who is enjoying her life and "demote" (i think kendake used that word today which I love) him back to being a friend. Don't act angry or pissed. After this initial text, you can sometimes forget to reply if you want--no real preference I'd need to see the future texts to see if you should or should not reply. In psychology, I think it's called intermittent reinforcement. The whole reason why you reply at first is to let him know he didn't phase you and you are not boo-hoo'ing in the corner because he didn't get in touch about chinese fool (TYPO but it stays!!)

 

Let's say he says sorry I didn't get in touch about saturday or chinese food. Just reply "no worries" "some other time" or something to that effect. Whatever is friendly enough but shows that you don't really care that you missed chinese food or time with him because maybe you did something better. Whatever you say should not be open ended, that way HE will need to make effort to keep the conversation going. Friendly indifference. basically if he gets in touch and you reply, you have a semi-clean-ish slate and he is welcome to put effort in to bring things back to a dating level. Otherwise you have demoted him to friends. You don't tell him this you show him this with your actions and way you word things with him. Throw him on back burner until he steps it up.

 

I wouldn't do that skipping replying to several texts from him in expectation of a grand gesture. Some guys will do that and some won't. A guy could be interested but just not a grand gesture guy. You have to do it to send your message not to control his actions. At this point any contact from him is amusing and a slight distraction from everyday life. He has not shown you that you should invest more and so you treat him as such. There's not real need to get angry or retaliate because he doesn't matter that much to you. That's what how you handle it should convey. If he has lingering interest and it was just an overavailability on your part that caused this spiral, this might reset things. I have my fingers crossed for you. I do think there is still a chance. Unfortunately, his behavior is really typical--partly because girls typically do a lot of what you have done too (sorry!). People and guys typically like a bit of a challenge. Even your own dating history seems like you do as well. Maybe you can put yourself back in the mindset of when you are really just meh about your tinder guys? Something like that. He has to build the attraction back up. You are basically doing a reset. good luck.

[PacificPlain]

Makes sense. And whatever bug this is, is awful. I'm having a hard time breathing thank you west costs flu season.

 

I still haven't heard from the guy, and I think this is the first time this has happened since started talking/hit it off. Two days in a row with zero contact is a first.

Definitely starting to think maybe he ran into more than an old roommate and his friends downtown that night.

[dispatch3d]

I'd say the ball is in his court at this point in time. If he contacts you again I would try to organize something with him if you're still interested. If you are at the point of having enough of his flaky behaviour that's pretty understandable - you may just not be compatible in a commitment sense.

 

and don't send that text asking him to clarify his feelings. Go by his actions.

[Versacehottie]

Makes sense. And whatever bug this is, is awful. I'm having a hard time breathing thank you west costs flu season.

 

I still haven't heard from the guy, and I think this is the first time this has happened since started talking/hit it off. Two days in a row with zero contact is a first.

Definitely starting to think maybe he ran into more than an old roommate and his friends downtown that night.

 

Aww hang in there both with the sickness and him. You don't need to rush to get an answer about him. Do your thing and no way will this be last you've hear from him. Guys get curious when you just seem fine without them. It's like a ..... and they almost always come back to find out the answer to the question, was she really into me? Ego, think ego.

 

Anyway if the sickness hits you like it has most people, you won't want to go out with him anytime soon. Sometimes things work out exactly as they are supposed to. You can play this into your plan. If you are actually sick, you won't want to be on a date with him, thus will not feel like you are missing out on anything. It's like nature is forcing an intervention. Ok good luck and keep us posted.

[PacificPlain]

Update: I finally heard from him about an hour and a half ago, for the first time since Saturday. Simply a text (at what would have been the usually, routine time before he disappeared this week) that says "Hey Stranger".

 

What he doesn't know is I saw his car the same cafe I ran into him at weeks ago, at lunch today, and drove away to avoid him.

 

Also, Versace--you were right about this virus. If I have what you have, you're spot on. I couldn't even make it through a full day at the office today and will likely be staying home tomorrow.

 

 

The question, do I even reply to his text? I kind of want to, but I wonder if it will be rewarding bad behavior?

[Versacehottie]

Update: I finally heard from him about an hour and a half ago, for the first time since Saturday. Simply a text (at what would have been the usually, routine time before he disappeared this week) that says "Hey Stranger".

 

What he doesn't know is I saw his car the same cafe I ran into him at weeks ago, at lunch today, and drove away to avoid him.

 

Also, Versace--you were right about this virus. If I have what you have, you're spot on. I couldn't even make it through a full day at the office today and will likely be staying home tomorrow.

 

 

The question, do I even reply to his text? I kind of want to, but I wonder if it will be rewarding bad behavior?

 

Well I'm glad that you didn't go to the same cafe today---not feeling your best and under the current conditions with him. Hmmmm, like i think i said before, I would just take longer than normal to reply. Like if you normally reply in 15 minutes or so, reply in 4 hours or due to the time already tonight tomorrow around lunch time. I would either flip it or not give him much in your reply but be friendly and see if he takes it the next step. In a way he could just be throwing a little ego breadcrumb, like where he wants to check to see if he still has you on the hook. The key is NOT to confirm he does. Hmmm maybe don't even address the "hey stranger". Just say hi back and something friends or acquaintances would say to each other. Without acting "mad" you want to show him that he risks being demoted to just a friend without more constant contact. All nicely, friendly, happy with your life and not put out or obsessing over him. Tell me some choices of what you would text back if you want and I will let you know which is best.

 

I'm glad he contacted you. And hope everything gets back on track! Yes the sickness knocks you out--I knew that, which is why I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt at first. And it takes a while to go away and feel back to normal.

 

I don't think you are rewarding bad behavior by replying. You just don't give him the type of priority that he would have had a couple of weeks ago and if he'd played all his cards right. He's demoted until he shows you he's worthy of more space in your life.

[Erdbeere]

It doesn't matter if they are legitimate excuses or not.....you are not having your expectations being fulfilled. You want better you move on and find someone who does....it's that simple.

 

Like I always say, you date those who treat you the way you want to be treated.

 

 

I definitely think we need to be a bit more focused, as women, on breaking away sooner from unsuitable men. However, although I agree to an extent with your post, I am always left with the feeling that it lands us in disposable waters, where we walk on eggshells for fear someone doesn't like something we do or say and throws us to the wayside.

 

I also feel that women are so afraid of being thrown away over something incidental, that we're not able to be our authentic selves.

 

We almost need to advocate quicker decision making, and, in parallel, patience and bravery in discussing issues with a partner.

[Erdbeere]

That's the thing though. This is a guy she's known less than a month who she's not in a relationship with. So she shouldn't really have any expectations yet IMO. I mean it's great the sex has been good a handful of times, they get along well, started texting more, etc.. But it's WAY too soon to be questioning motivates and interest level yet.

 

For what it's worth, my advice would be to relax a bit OP and try to be a bit more realistic in terms of how long you've known the guy. It hasn't been that long at all and you aren't in a relationship. If you're still seeing the guy a few months from now and he keeps acting "sick", then that's a different story. But if he is legitimately sick, that can take 2-3 weeks to fully get over which is almost as long as you've known him..LOL So chill out a bit.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this approach of waiting to see how things pan out, and trusting what he says until she has reason not to. Not that I know anything, given my thread on here, but it strikes me as normal that contact initially should ebb and flow. I'm not sure intense levels of contact are genuinely sustainable forever and always. One needs to reenergise or focus on and cope with other things sometimes.

[Erdbeere]

I'm just wondering if his recent behaviors indicate someone who's losing interest. - If you sit back, it will become clear in due time. And, what would you do if we said yes, he's definitely losing interest? What will you do with that information -- will you leave it alone or will you start doing things to try to pull him back in?

 

Bottomline, if you really want to know what's going on for sure, let him show you.

 

 

I would love to see the men on the board comment on this. I can see a certain type of man for whom it's true, but I also wonder if, in the early stages, some men also need proactive encouragement via patience and occasional contact.