CDJ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I thought I’d share my experience, partly for opinions on the final bit, and partly because I’ve learned something from it! (sorry it's a bit long). Background My ex ‘K’ and I were together 18 months. She became infatuated quickly; I took a bit longer! Cracks appeared in the final months. Earlier, a friend’s death and job difficulties killed my libido and weakened me emotionally, which I never admitted or dealt with (thus pushing us apart a little). K said she worried I wasn’t earning enough and doubted our ‘compatibility’ with contradictory reasons (e.g. didn’t see me as a ‘successful’ father figure, then said she didn’t want kids), yet would reject my suggestions to break-up (I always had to be the one to bring it up). When we eventually did it was hard for us, but I couldn’t take the uncertainty. I was mindful of when she told me how a friend had broken up with his girlfriend and asked K out 6 months before; I asked if he was a factor, which she denied. Afterwards it felt like we hadn’t broken up, communicating as normal. Neither of us told many friends/family. We still had keys/belongings. She told me she still loved me and wanted to write to my parents to explain her reasons for breaking up. Her birthday was coming up and she was working nights that weekend, so I thought I would deliver her presents/belongings on one of the nights. But she wanted to see me, so we agreed I’d come after Monday lunchtime following her final night shift. When I arrived at 2pm on the Monday she came out her bedroom naked having just awoken, claiming we hadn’t confirmed I was coming round (she sent an odd text that morning asking what I was up to that day, to which I replied to confirm/remind, and tried to ring four times). She grabbed a dressing gown and opened her presents. I sensed awkwardness and then it clicked; there was a guy in her bed. Reaction/aftermath I felt sick and humiliated. She said he was a locum she’d met at work over the weekend, it hadn’t meant anything, she felt lonely and it was because we hadn’t been intimate for a while. She said that she was ‘****ed-up’ and ‘self-destructive’, but was quite mean and cold, so I pushed for a reaction. I said I wanted answers/closure to move on (this upset her, yet I’d found her moving on!). She even blamed me for turning up (never one to accept fallibility). For the next few days we texted. I laid it on a bit; I was hurt and wanted her to feel it. She became remorseful and wanted to talk in person, whereas I wanted to forget what I saw; but I became desperate to know why she let it happen (she claimed she’d overslept) and why she’d said she still loved me days before. My problem was that I wanted answers and quick fixes, and I didn’t confide in anyone because I was embarrassed. We arranged to meet, but when I told my parents (K had weirdly text my mum to thank her for a birthday present) her mood changed. Upset and desperate, I stupidly made things worse by texting her mum (she knew what had happened); in my irrational state I thought it would help us both, but of course it upset K. She wouldn’t meet me as I was “upset and irrational” (but never aggressive). A week later she reluctantly called me and I apologised for how I’d reacted, even though I’d suffered a trauma! She wouldn’t discuss what happened, distressed at the slightest mention. At the end we agreed we would meet to exchange stuff. That was the last time we spoke. When arranging to meet 8 weeks later, she ignored me and mailed my stuff without any words (my mum had to ask her to return them). I also discovered who the guy was. He had the same first name as the ‘friend’ who’d asked her out, and about whom I’d enquired when we broke up. My gut tells me it’s the same guy, but I’m not certain. Making sense and trying to cope I realise I made things worse. I wish I’d been calmer, sought advice. Now she seems to have complete disdain and can’t acknowledge me. I let her flip the situation to gain the high ground! But whereas before I blamed myself, through counselling I understand my reaction to a horrible situation was understandable. She chose to make me feel the break-up was due to my faults when it might have been about this other guy (maybe that’s why she deliberated over breaking up, couldn’t choose). Or maybe it really was a guy she met that weekend – but then, how could she move on so quickly (they’re an item now)? Why continue to contact me, telling me she loved me and inviting me around? And it wouldn’t have hurt to meet and talk afterwards, rather than ignoring me (I tried once last time a month ago); I would have done it for her had it been the other way around, but she let it tear me apart. It’s left me with an 18 month hole in my life, like I never really knew her. I coped with the break-up because I thought I understood her reasons, but now I doubt her sincerity/honesty. It feels unfair - all I did was turn up with her presents because she asked me to. And it all just feels such a shame – the break-up had been on very good terms and she chose to create a bad ending. I would never have denied her right to move on, but she didn't need to hurt me or be so callous. But I've learned that some people deal with problems by detaching, so you can’t rush for a quick fix. Healing has been ‘two steps forward, one step back’. There are checkpoints one has to go through (e.g. the first time you see a photo of your ex with her new partner). I wish I’d resisted temptation to check social media! And I should’ve allowed myself to be angry. I didn’t want to regret loving her, but anger is necessary. I wish I'd come to forums like this before making things worse for myself. The whole NC policy is spot-on (as difficult as it is), and when I read some of the do's and don't's that people have listed, I realised I'd broken pretty much every rule! Final blow In the past few weeks I’ve learned she has removed all photos of me from social media. What’s strange is that it took her 4 months before she removed a few…then a few more…until there were only 5 left (even though we disconnected on social media long before so I couldn’t see them anyway). Last week (5 months after the incident) she removed the last ones. That’s what hurt most – knowing she symbolically erased me from her past (she’d said in our final phone call that she didn’t want to do that). Why now and not months earlier?! 1
ExpatInItaly Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Why did she remove all traces now? 1) She realizes this is toxic and needs to cut ties. and/or 2) She is dating someone else now, and needs to remove all remnants of you. Either way, this whole situation is very unhealthy. Stay away from her. You two don't work together and it will be better for you in the long-run to go complete No Contact. 3
Author CDJ Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Thanks for the reply. What I find odd is that she's effectively been dating him for 5 months already (same guy who was in her bed two weeks after our break-up). And we'd cut ties many months ago; I couldn't even see the photos when she still had them up so I doubt she was keeping them up to appease me. Even though it hurt to learn she'd removed all the photos, I was expecting her to do it much sooner; and all in one go, rather than in stages over a 4 week period. But I guess this is part of the problem of dealing with something like this: we can drive ourselves mad trying to guess what a person's motives were. It's hard, but it's best to just accept you will never know (and I'm getting there!). 1
ExpatInItaly Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Thanks for the reply. What I find odd is that she's effectively been dating him for 5 months already (same guy who was in her bed two weeks after our break-up). And we'd cut ties many months ago; I couldn't even see the photos when she still had them up so I doubt she was keeping them up to appease me. Even though it hurt to learn she'd removed all the photos, I was expecting her to do it much sooner; and all in one go, rather than in stages over a 4 week period. But I guess this is part of the problem of dealing with something like this: we can drive ourselves mad trying to guess what a person's motives were. It's hard, but it's best to just accept you will never know (and I'm getting there!). Exactly. This is the most important. We sometimes never get the answers we're looking for and we really can't guess the reasons why people do what they do. It takes time to accept it and move on but be patient with yourself. You'll get there! 4
Author CDJ Posted February 4, 2016 Author Posted February 4, 2016 Been on this forum a couple of weeks now, and reading other people’s experiences has helped me to understand my own situation a lot better; in some ways, it’s given me the answers I craved (although this in turn has created new wounds and things to deal with!). Thought I’d share, if only for the catharsis (better with you than with her!). Managing the situation I should’ve immediately spoken with my parents and a counsellor (or come on this forum!). The advice and support would have kept me calm. Unfortunately, I made things worse. But that’s the nature of trauma; as a doctor, she could have been more understanding about that! But whilst I recognise now that ‘no contact’ would’ve been better, I do think she was a coward for not facing up and talking to me about what happened. We had broken up and she was free – why keep contacting me, and why get me round to hers only to humiliate me like that (whether it was deliberate or sheer incompetence)? I think it was her passive-aggressive way of telling me she was moving on (rather than just telling me). Anger and regret (the former being long-overdue!) I really regret that I didn’t come out with my head held high. I’d done absolutely nothing wrong, but by desperately trying to get a meeting/answers I allowed her to flip the situation. I’m struggling to get over this, it's dented my pride a lot. All the post-break-up messages of love set me up for a mighty fall. I genuinely believed she was struggling with the break-up and that she doubted the decision. But actions speak louder than words; everything she did showed that she wasn’t being honest in what she said. I think she maintained contact at first because she was probably feeling guilty or wanted to make herself feel better; or maybe she wanted to hang on to me until she knew for sure she could move on. She came out with excuses about being “****ed up” and “self-destructive”, which I think made me too sympathetic towards her; as did her pleas afterwards to understand that she was upset and that it was hard for her. In hindsight, I think this was another case of her trying to absolve herself of blame and responsibility; she wasn’t destroying herself with her actions, she was destroying me. Getting to the answers myself It seems likely that the guy was the same who asked her out earlier in the year; hence why she was able to move on so quickly. She had told me she wanted to break-up to ‘be alone’, only to then do what she did because she was ‘feeling lonely’. Realising one inconsistency opened my eyes to so many others. Even when she had no reason to lie to me anymore, she did. I feel that the relationship was largely disingenuous. When you truly love someone, you love them you in their weakest and darkest moments. I supported her when she had job issues and I always reassured you about her insecurities; when it was my turn, they became a reason for the break-up. I’d offered her a break-up on two earlier occasions, yet she talked me out of it! Regarding the social media photos, I suspect the reason she took so long to remove them, and why she did so gradually, was to not draw attention to it. She wouldn’t want people to know that her and the new guy hooked up two weeks after our break-up (at which point she still hadn’t told friends), so I think she’s probably just trying to engineer it to make it seem there was a bigger time gap between me and him. It’s strange how something as trivial as deleting old photos can hurt so much! How it’s still affecting me It’s left me with an 18-month hole in my life, because I feel as though I never really knew her and that what we shared wasn’t real. I also feel foolish for letting my guard down and for being swept up by her rhetoric; all her talk of us being “perfect for one another”, of me being “the one”, of wanting to get married and settle down, of promising that she would always support me and be behind me no matter what – it was a bit of a fantasy in her mind. Before meeting her I was very happy with the kind of person I was and never felt the need to live up to anything. But she made me feel inadequate about my lack of ‘success’ and career choices (which put me off pursuing my PhD ambitions as I felt I had to start earning more money instead). When we broke up I felt OK and optimistic; I believed I had a good experience behind me, and the confidence to do it all again with someone else. But now I feel almost scared to take the risk again, or to commit to anyone. 2
bigbaby Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I hope you recover from this break-up soon. A few things occurred to me, fwiw. It sounds like you really have no idea who the guy is so why dwell on that. Even if it was the guy who had asked her out earlier, that doesn't mean she cheated on you or anything significant, really, except that you were her first choice and he was only second place. I think it was quite ignorant of her to have some guy in her bed when she had asked you to come over. But she could have just overslept, I suppose. In fact, that sounds likely to me. She doesn't sound like being deliberately cruel would be her usual style, from what you've said. I was a bit surprised at all the parental involvement here. Why were you calling each other's moms about it? Breaking up, even with an ugly ending, does not mean none of it was real etc. You had already discussed breaking up a couple of times before. You just weren't compatible for the long term. Your idea of why she took your pictures down slowly over time makes sense. Good luck. Edited February 4, 2016 by bigbaby 1
Author CDJ Posted February 4, 2016 Author Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Thanks, bigbaby. It's strange that in such situations there is a dichotomy in one's brain; the rational part of me thinks as you have analysed it, but then there's an emotional part that creates the doubts/questions/anxieties. I find that dealing with break-ups or traumas is a battle between those two minds. It sounds like you really have no idea who the guy is...except that you were her first choice and he was only second place. No, I don't know for sure, but the first name is the same (and not a particularly common one). Things between my ex and me did seem to start going pear-shaped rather quickly and almost out of the blue. I think the opposite is true; he was her first choice, so she was torn once he became available. It matters because I think it would have been better to tell me there was another guy (as much as it would've hurt) than to create a list of contradictory reasons why I was falling short (thus killing my confidence and making me regret so much). She doesn't sound like being deliberately cruel would be her usual style, from what you've said. She always had problems being upfront about things (I often had to draw it out of her - she once brought up her doubts the night before I was due to fly out to meet her in Japan for a family holiday!), and given how she was still contacting me after the break-up, it would have been hard to find the words one day for either of us to tell the other we'd moved on. I think this this was her warped way of telling me and getting it over and done with. I was a bit surprised at all the parental involvement here. Why were you calling each other's moms about it? She text my mum the very next day to thank her for the bday present my parents had bought her; like nothing had happened. This obviously upset me at the time as it meant I then had to tell my parents what happened (but in hindsight it was a good thing). I knew her mum already knew, and the reason I text her a few days later was because I had a pang of conscience over realising I'd been placing additional stress on my ex, through all the questioning. And she'd been so zombie-like that day at hers, almost not herself, that I was genuinely worried. Because I didn't want to tell other family/close friends (my ex had kind of asked me not to), I didn't have anyone else to reach out to. I had the best intentions, but it was a stupid thing to do! My mum then had to get involved a couple of months later in order to get all my belongings back (one was a football shirt that had huge sentimental value for me). Not an ideal scenario! Breaking up, even with an ugly ending, does not mean none of it was real etc. It's weird: the rational part of me knows that not's the case, but I guess the emotional part of me feels like it wasn't real. Well, I suppose to some extent it wasn't towards the end, and I guess I felt I needed to know precisely when it stopped for her (though I understand now that I could never got an answer for that). Edited February 4, 2016 by CDJ 1
DarkHorizon Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 It's strange that in such situations there is a dichotomy in one's brain; the rational part of me thinks as you have analysed it, but then there's an emotional part that creates the doubts/questions/anxieties. I find that dealing with break-ups or traumas is a battle between those two minds. The dichotomy IS real. It's just like when the drug is taken away from the addict. The source might have been removed, but there are now withdrawal and left over dependency symptoms. These symptoms force the egoic mind into rumination and obsession (the doubts/questions/anxieties you mentioned) - which you referred to as the "emotional part". It is just the reward system still running, unsuccessfully trying to recover the lost romantic fix. It is just on auto pilot. During the "sober" moments of this withdrawal process (what you referred to as the rational part), your brain is just working hard on rewiring those neurons, trying to regulate the mixed-up emotions, prevent you from doing stupid things - like calling your ex drunk, and help you putting your life back together. 2
Author CDJ Posted February 15, 2016 Author Posted February 15, 2016 I've been doing really well in the last couple of weeks, in that I felt that the emotional reaction to it all had subsided (no tears for two months). When thinking about what she did to me, rather than feeling pain I've felt anger and almost a kind of 'screw her' attitude. Part of me can almost smirk at the whole situation (I wouldn't go as far as to say 'laugh'!) when I think about what kind of person she must really have been to have done such a nasty and unnecessary thing to me (lucky escape, perhaps). Instead of regretting things from when we were together (i.e. what I could have done better with her), my regrets now seem to be more around wishing I had ended the relationship sooner when I had the chance, when I was in control and had the upper hand. I admit that part of me also wishes I'd 'hurt' her - not in a cruel way as she did to me, but more in the sense of ending things when she begged me not to, and letting her feeling the heartbreak instead. I know that's probably not a healthy thing to feel in the long-term but it's just how I feel. I do still regret not handling things more calmly and thus letting her flip the situation, but I'm starting to forgive myself for that. I did have a bit of a dip today when I saw a photo of her looking very happy and fun. Of course I know there's no reason why she shouldn't feel happy, but that kind of thing still hurts a little; she did something to me that has really inhibited my happiness for the past 6 months, yet immediately got on with her life and is full of beans. It doesn't seem fair - but then, life rarely is! 1
Author CDJ Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 Need to vent and get some words out, so thought best to contain it to my own thread! Anyone with whom I’ve spoken or has seen my recent comments in other threads will have noticed that I’ve been doing pretty good for the last few months – the first four months were horrible, but after xmas the last three to four months have been OK (no tears and no contact, including social media). However, this past week it’s dawned on my just how much I still think about her and what happened and, more worryingly, how much anger I feel. I say worryingly because, from my understanding of the stages of grief, anger is something that you need to get through before reaching acceptance. And I thought I had done all of that already. But actually, thinking about it, I’d missed anger out until now. Back in November my therapist asked me to write a letter to my ex (not to send it – although a few weeks later, I did!) and upon reading it he remarked “This is really good – but where is the anger?”. I kind of brushed that under the carpet because I didn’t feel any anger and didn’t think I needed to. But now that it’s all coming out I can see what he meant and why it’s important. Often I would think about what I would do if I could go back in time. Sometimes it would be to go back before I even met her, other times to the point just after a walked in on her so that I could handle things better and walk away with my head held high (and leave her hanging and wanting to speak to me, before I allowed her to flip the situation). But now, amongst all this anger I’m feeling, I’m inclined towards a third option: I wish I could go back and hurt her as much as she hurt me. I wish I’d followed though in breaking up with her those couple of times she practically begged me not to, so that I could end up ‘on top’. I’ve also started to harbour some anger towards the ‘other guy’; at first I thought “not his fault” but now on reflection I’m pretty sure he must have pursued my ex when we were together and thus created a sort of unfair fight (i.e. he knew he was up against me, but I didn’t know I was up against him). I guess the reason I’m venting this now is that I know this is not a particularly healthy thing to be feeling and wishing – it’s far removed from acceptance. Perhaps I’m just frustrated as I thought I was there and now I realise I’m not. And I know that’s OK – there’s no set time limit on such things – but it’s just annoying, that’s all! 1
BC1980 Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 You know, most breakups aren't really all that amicable. It's kind of overrated. I'm not saying you need to make it nasty, but there is always going to be one party who gets hurt. The majority of us don't end on a good note. Removing yourself from contact is important because you are emotional. I have found that more contact usually leads to more hurt and drama. 3
Author CDJ Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 You know, most breakups aren't really all that amicable. It's kind of overrated. I'm not saying you need to make it nasty, but there is always going to be one party who gets hurt. The majority of us don't end on a good note. Removing yourself from contact is important because you are emotional. I have found that more contact usually leads to more hurt and drama. Yes, I wish I'd cut contact immediately after the break-up; and if not then, immediately after the incident at hers. Perhaps that's forming part of my current feelings - anger at myself. Forgiveness is an overrated virtue and I certainly won't forgive her for how she treated me during and after the relationship; but I think it's important that we can learn to forgive ourselves.
BC1980 Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Yes, I wish I'd cut contact immediately after the break-up; and if not then, immediately after the incident at hers. Perhaps that's forming part of my current feelings - anger at myself. Forgiveness is an overrated virtue and I certainly won't forgive her for how she treated me during and after the relationship; but I think it's important that we can learn to forgive ourselves. Forgiveness takes a long time, and I think it's mostly about the forgiver. It really doesn't have much to do with the person you are forgiving. I refused to even consider forgiveness for about a year after my breakup. I just wasn't there yet. For me, forgiveness was more about letting go and realizing that he could never repay me for what happened. So why keep holding onto the hurt? Forgiveness didn't mean that I felt what he did was okay. You might get there in time.
frigginlost Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 I say worryingly because, from my understanding of the stages of grief, anger is something that you need to get through before reaching acceptance. And I thought I had done all of that already. CDJ, One thing that you must remember is that the stages of grief may not come in order and they do not always line-up. They also can come at you multiple times. When my Marriage fell apart, the stages came at me at from all different angles. Anger being the one that came in went many times. The important and healthy thing to remember, is to not bury or bottle them up. Let them out as the only way you can properly heal is to ride those miserable waves. 1
Sturgill Posted May 11, 2016 Posted May 11, 2016 CDJ- I am in a situation very similar to yours just coming out of a five year serious relationship. I noticed you haven't posted in a couple weeks. How's it going? Have you heard from your ex since going into NC? How did you handle it? What did/didn't you say. Do you still hold any hope for you and this person? This has been the most difficult experience for me. Thanks
Author CDJ Posted June 2, 2016 Author Posted June 2, 2016 CDJ- I am in a situation very similar to yours just coming out of a five year serious relationship. I noticed you haven't posted in a couple weeks. How's it going? Have you heard from your ex since going into NC? How did you handle it? What did/didn't you say. Do you still hold any hope for you and this person? This has been the most difficult experience for me. Thanks Hi, sorry for the delayed reply, didn't see your post! Thanks for asking - I suppose I've gone from 'two steps forward, one step back', to 'three steps forward, one step back'! Where I've progressed is that I've come to accept a few things: - That what she did to me was deliberate, and I just didn't want to believe it - That I still miss her and have feelings for her, and therefore I need to see those feelings out before I can move on with someone else (I've dated countless women since and it's just made me feel more miserable). I haven't heard from her since two weeks after the 'incident'; so just over 9 months, now. I regret how I handled things - I wish I'd been cooler and not given her the power, as I think that's what she wanted. She'd done a horrible thing to me and I let her find any excuse to flip the situation to the point when I was suddenly begging her to talk to me and apologising to her. Quite absurd, really! But, I have to learn to forgive myself - I was hurt and traumatised, and she was a coward. It's as simple as that. Maybe part of me still holds some hope that she might reach out to me again, but I'm not sure what I'm hoping for. An apology, perhaps? Maybe answers? Maybe just some recognition from her that she treated me awfully? I don't know. I do know though that I need to let go of that hope or I will never be able to let go of her. As ****ty as she was to me at the end, I still miss her a lot.
Author CDJ Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 It's a been a while since I posted any updates on my situation, but now I really feel like I've turned a corner and wanted to share it with you all. I guess I'd made a big leap forward after Xmas (four months after the break up and what happened); getting the festive season done and out of the way lifted a weight off my shoulders, and I finally began the process of no-contact. Every now and again I would check her social media in moments of weakness, but the gaps between those lapses increased each time. The key to me getting better was when I realised my what my main problem had been; that I wasn't accepting that she probably did what she did deliberately, maybe to hurt me or send me a message (which was totally unnecessary in so many ways). I was in complete denial about that, and I think the reason I'd been so desperate to speak to her in the first few months was because I was hoping for some evidence or proof that it hadn't been deliberate and that she had genuinely cared about me. Accepting the likely truth of it all was very much an epiphany. For the last few months I'd been doing really well, although occasionally I would have sad and down moments, and I also carried a lot of anger and frustration (mostly at myself, in feeling that I 'let' her treat me badly and made it easy for her to do what she did). Anyway, I recently went to visit a friend who lives in Barcelona; she'd had her own break-up 6 months ago, and although the circumstances weren't perhaps as dramatic and traumatic as mine, there were some similarities between our situations that helped me to sympathise. One late night after dinner were were one the metro and she was browsing her phone. When we got back to her flat she burst into tears, explaining how she'd given in to temptation check his social media, and of course didn't like what she saw. She complained that she was stupid and weak, but I reassured her that she wasn't the first and won't be the last to do something like that. But despite my words she just seemed to get more upset and angry with herself, and so in what I think was partly an effort in solidarity and partly an attempt to make her laugh, I grabbed my phone and went online to check my own exes social media - I wanted to show her that her behaviour was a normal part of the grief she was feeling. And do you know what? I felt nothing. Seeing photos of my ex having moved on with the other guy didn't give me that ache in my heart like it used to. And I realised that this is the 'indifference' that people on this forum often talk about and promise. It seems a little crass and unfair that I reached this happy realisation in a moment of sadness and suffering for my friend, but then this at least helped me to press further the point that she will get better. People told me the same thing and I just didn't believe it, but now, almost a year later, I feel I've turned this corner and am now on the home straight towards indifference. I feel I can even laugh and make jokes about what happened to me. My friend asked if this meant I'd forgiven my ex. No, is the answer. I haven't and I never will. She did a ****ty thing to me and then added to the pain in a cruel and cowardly way. I think forgiveness is an overrated 'virtue'; it lets people get away with doing bad things. I still feel angry and a part of me would like some small dose of revenge - this will go eventually, but I will never forgive. So, I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus that sings about how eventually we will all reach a state of indifference towards our exes and our break-ups. All it takes is time, a bit of self-discipline and sharing with people (even strangers on this forum).
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