How to Avoid the Relationship?

[xxoo]

Maybe I am missing something...but how would he know he wants a RL with a particular woman unless and until he dates her awhile?

 

He doesn't want a relationship, period.

 

Women, if a man tells you this, believe it! Don't think that you are special and could change his mind. He may have very good reasons for feeling this way, and it has nothing to do with you.

 

The OP is coming off of a very turbulent relationship. He wisely does not want to fall into another one at this time. So he is asking for advice on how to avoid the appearance of a relationship while spending time with women and possibly having sex.

[candie13]

But this thread isn't about avoiding men who are not relationship oriented.

 

It's about being the non-relationship oriented man, and how to avoid a relationship. If he really wants to avoid any misunderstandings, it's not good enough to assume that the woman thinks like you. He is concerned about misunderstandings, so he needs to be clear from the first date--"I'm not looking for a relationship", not just when sex is on the table.

because it's fluid in both senses. Some women want RS, meet him, date à bit, see he's not only sexy & smart but à tad unreliable... Date him some more, have the talk or figure it out... Maybe they change their mind themselves. It's fluid in both senses. RS-oriented women are allowed to change their mind & open their horizons...

[katiegrl]

He doesn't want a relationship, period.

 

Women, if a man tells you this, believe it! Don't think that you are special and could change his mind. He may have very good reasons for feeling this way, and it has nothing to do with you.

 

The OP is coming off of a very turbulent relationship. He wisely does not want to fall into another one at this time. So he is asking for advice on how to avoid the appearance of a relationship while spending time with women and possibly having sex.

 

I don't think I am special... and if upon meeting me, and without my asking, he flat out told me he was not interested in a RL.... I would assume, since he has met ME, took a look at me, perhaps conversed with ME a bit, he realized he would never want a RL with me.

 

This has never happened to me, but if it ever did, again I would presume that he was not interested in a RL with me, and would move on.

 

But who's to say THAT SAME MAN would not meet another woman next week and feel differently, and want a RL with her?

[xxoo]

because it's fluid in both senses. Some women want RS, meet him, date à bit, see he's not only sexy & smart but à tad unreliable... Date him some more, have the talk or figure it out... Maybe they change their mind themselves. It's fluid in both senses. RS-oriented women are allowed to change their mind & open their horizons...

 

None of this is a reason not to be straightforward from the start.

 

Remember, he is asking how to avoid a relationship. Giving it a few dates only opens up the potential for misunderstanding.

[RedRobin]

perfect, I'll have those not RS oriented men who dared to suggest sex after 2 months of dating, got turned down but still stuck around after I said no, until I felt comfortable to trust him & until we had The exclusivity talk!

 

i don't judge men for having had sex outside RS & i do not consider them not RS worthy. I look at their RS past to judge that. If they had no serious RS, then yes, i won't date them.

 

Really? Lots of those guys would be happy to judge you if you had sex outside of a relationship. Why would you want a guy who is into testing you and likely has double standards?

 

Me... I just avoid guys who aren't into casual sex. As a woman you avoid a lot of headaches that way. Including the BS tests to see if you are 'that' kind of girl. Plus they are more relationship oriented.

[xxoo]

I don't think I am special... and if upon meeting me, and without my asking, he flat out told me he was not interested in a RL.... I would assume, since he has met ME, took a look at me, perhaps conversed with ME a bit, he realized he would never want a RL with me.

 

This has never happened to me, but if it ever did, again I would presume that he was not interested in a RL with me, and would move on.

 

But who's to say THAT SAME MAN would not meet another woman next week and feel differently, and want a RL with her?

 

The OP is asking how to avoid a relationship.

 

I don't understand how this is getting twisted into women deciding if they want to date the man who doesn't want a relationship.

[katiegrl]

The OP is asking how to avoid a relationship.

 

I don't understand how this is getting twisted into women deciding if they want to date the man who doesn't want a relationship.

 

LOL... I realize that. My first post was in response to Rejected Rosebud's post, buy you are right, got a little sidetracked there.

 

If the OP does not want a RL under any circumstances, even IF he were to meet the woman of his dreams....then of course, he needs to be up front about it from the get go.

[RedRobin]

Maybe I am missing something...but how would he KNOW he wants a RL with a particular woman unless and until he dates her awhile?

 

I know guys (not any I have dated, but one of my brothers who is now happily married, and friends of my ex's) who were not looking for a RL per se (and told the women that)...but were open to it.... IF they met the "right" woman.

 

They dated a ton, mostly casual, but then met the "right" woman, the women they fell in love with... and went on to enter into a RL with her.

 

Two of those men, including my brother, are now happily married to those women.

 

I think it's important to remain flexible.... and open to the various changes and nuances that happen after two people and begin dating.

 

The same guy who was not looking for a relationship, upon meeting the right woman for him...may very well change his mind and want a RL with her.

 

Feelings are fluid, always changing.... and much of it depends upon the person you are dating....how you feel about that particular person.... and your connection with that particular person.

 

Rigidity has no place in dating OR a relationship.

 

Stay open, stay flexible. Trust in the process.

 

This attitude has always worked for me.

 

If after dating a while, you discover the guy (or gal) is NOT what you're looking for or seeking, then move on.

 

But if you click, for heaven's sake give it a chance. Does not mean you have to have sex with him.... but date him for awhile.. see how it plays out.

 

If he's not for you...then again move on.

 

I don't understand these rigid attitudes....arghh, what a turn off.

 

JMO

 

It's a turn off to have women, especially, keep feeding people fairy tales.

 

No way in hell that the 'right woman' makes any man commit. That's the biggest myth on the planet ever.

 

The truth is, there was something in his life... Some circumstances that had nothing to do with her... Where he felt capable and open to committing... And she just happened to be around. Not that she was 'so special'.

 

Women will make their lives a whole heck of a lot easier if they stopped believing they are some special flower going to make a grand entrance into a guy's life... And instead just date guys who effing know what they want and act on it. And have a history of doing that.

 

As another poster said... The OP wants to avoid a relationship. For Christ sake, stop telling him to be coy and play games on the off chance he might change his mind. What you are doing is telling him to lie by omission. That's being a jerk.

[candie13]

Really? Lots of those guys would be happy to judge you if you had sex outside of a relationship. Why would you want a guy who is into testing you and likely has double standards?

 

Me... I just avoid guys who aren't into casual sex. As a woman you avoid a lot of headaches that way. Including the BS tests to see if you are 'that' kind of girl. Plus they are more relationship oriented.

i did have sex outside RS, when I was mindf*cked after leaving my 7 years bf. I was not Ready even to date, even less to see one person seriously. I imagine that men who'be been through such difficult periods did the same. As long as that was occasional & not a solid dating behaviour, I'm happy to let the past in the past. I'm afraid I don't understand your point about double standards, we don't really get that here....

[candie13]

 

As another poster said... The OP wants to avoid a relationship. For Christ sake, stop telling him to be coy and play games on the off chance he might change his mind. What you are doing is telling him to lie by omission. That's being a jerk.

A lot of men wenta really long way by using their convincing skills . I actually think it'show the human race survived !

[RedRobin]

i did have sex outside RS, when I was mindf*cked after leaving my 7 years bf. I was not Ready even to date, even less to see one person seriously. I imagine that men who'be been through such difficult periods did the same. As long as that was occasional & not a solid dating behaviour, I'm happy to let the past in the past. I'm afraid I don't understand your point about double standards, we don't really get that here....

 

Good point! I love that about Europe. Seems a lot saner over there. Here in the U.S. it's pretty effed up. That might explain the disconnect.

[katiegrl]

No way in hell that the 'right woman' makes any man commit. That's the biggest myth on the planet ever.

 

 

Well RR, as I said, it DID happen that way with at least two men I know, including my own brother....so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

[candie13]

Good point! I love that about Europe. Seems a lot saner over there. Here in the U.S. it's pretty effed up. That might explain the disconnect.

For sure .

[katiegrl]

 

As another poster said... The OP wants to avoid a relationship. For Christ sake, stop telling him to be coy and play games on the off chance he might change his mind. What you are doing is telling him to lie by omission. That's being a jerk.

 

Wha? Where did I tell the OP any such thing?

 

I didn't... and wouldn't.

 

Pls read all my posts before making such an erroneous statement.

 

If the OP does not want a RL under any circumstances, even IF he were to meet the woman of his dreams....then of course, he needs to be up front about it from the get go.

Edited January 26, 2016 by katiegrl

[katiegrl]

Exactly. Some people just refuse to see things from outside their narrow view of the world. A lot of the guys I know that are dating around really would be interested in a relationship if the right girl came along. I'm sure there are women in the same boat.

 

Of course enigma. Absolutely. And since you are a MAN, who better to KNOW that, than you.

 

I would not wish to live my life that way....but to each his own I suppose.

Edited January 27, 2016 by katiegrl

[RedRobin]

A lot of the guys I know that are dating around really would be interested in a relationship if the right girl came along.

 

Said every womanizer and commitment phobe....Ever.

 

I dunno. Are you college educated? Or did someone hand you a diploma because you walked on campus that day. You had to decide in advance you wanted a college education, correct?

 

What about learning how to drive? I'm sure you didn't just wake up anointed with the ability to drive.

 

Same way with relationships and commitment. If you aren't in the right mental space to be in one. Or want that, Miss America herself could show up on your doorstep and you still wouldn't want a relationship. So please, stop pitching this nonsense.

 

OTOH, I guess it works on lots of women who want to believe otherwise, so go ahead.

[RedRobin]

Well RR, as I said, it DID happen that way with at least two men I know, including my own brother....so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

My opinion of guys who date around is that they never are that committed. As soon as things cease being convenient, he'll be onto the next. That's his pattern. Am I right? Or she'll dump him when she gets tired of doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship. That's usually how those guys go. They find someone willing to be the emotional mule and they'll ride it as long as possible. Rinse repeat.

 

Anyway, I hope the OP had is question answered... And I really, really hope he decides to be upfront early in. It would be a real shame if he got sucked into being disingenuous or vague just to see if he can. Doesn't sound like a recipe for the peaceful life he is looking for right now.

Edited January 27, 2016 by RedRobin

[spiderowl]

Whats an effective way to say to someone that you want to date but not get into anything serious?

 

I just got out of a relationship and the last thing I want to do is to jump into another. There are a few women that I am flirting / chatting with but I want to take time for me and keep things fun and light. I dont want to be trapped into anything at the same time telling them you just want to have fun with them can make you sound like a douche.

 

I think saying what you said above is exactly the way to do it. Be honest. There will be women who want the same as you, to spend time with someone having fun (not just sex) but without feeling they have to feel committed. While many middle-aged women might want a proper relationship, they are likely to have been burnt before and would prefer to feel they didn't have to leap into anything.

 

Bear in mind though, that either of you could fall for the other. It happens to men too, you know!

[katiegrl]

My opinion of guys who date around is that they never are that committed. As soon as things cease being convenient, he'll be onto the next. That's his pattern. Am I right? Or she'll dump him when she gets tired of doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship. That's usually how those guys go. They find someone willing to be the emotional mule and they'll ride it as long as possible. Rinse repeat.

 

 

RR.... I am really sorry you've had such negative experiences.... fortunately I have not.

 

I choose to remain flexible and positive about these things, until proven otherwise by the men I date.

 

And if by chance he does prove me wrong....then I simply get up, shake that shyt off...and move on. I am not afraid of getting hurt, cuz no matter what happens.... I am strong and KNOW I will be FINE either way. I am not afraid to take a chance.

 

I am not saying YOUR way is the wrong way....it's just not for me.

 

And with respect to your above quote, again I know at least two men who would beg to differ with you on that...and I am sure there are many more, as enigma stated.

 

In any event.... wish you the best....and good luck!

[RedRobin]

My philosophy is neatly summed up by a man who has decades of experience in marriage counseling... It's called Buyers, Renters, And Freeloaders.

 

https://experiencelife.com/article/buyers-renters-and-freeloaders/

 

The 'right woman' theory is for freeloaders and renters. Their desire and ability for commitment extend only to the point where they are not inconvenienced and everything is easy.

 

I am a buyer. I only date other 'buyers'. That doesn't mean everyone who walks into my 'house' will want to buy it... But it means they are in the right frame of mind, they have the right tools, and they have demonstrated through life experience that they are willing to put in the effort to keep that house standing.

 

That's ok. Not everyone is a buyer or even wants to be. The OP is not in that frame of mind. It would be wrong of him to try and project to anyone that he is or might be. Hence the advice to avoid the term 'dating' and to avoid date like things.

 

What some others suggest is squatting on the property because they can't be bothered to figure out what they want or lay things out upfront. I am supposed to open up the door to those squatters why? Let them crash on the couch for however long till they figure out if they want to crash, rent, or buy the house? No thanks. Go to the bank, get pre approved, and I'll think about letting them in the front door. Otherwise, rent a room at the Motel Six and don't darken my doorstep or feed me BS so they can get a nice place to stay.

Edited January 27, 2016 by RedRobin

[katiegrl]

I am a buyer. I only date other 'buyers'. That doesn't mean everyone who walks into my 'house' will want to buy it... But it means they are in the right frame of mind, they have the right tools, and they have demonstrated through life experience that they are willing to put in the effort to keep that house standing.

 

I actually agree with that! ^^

 

What I don't agree with is your assuming that ALL men who date around and okay sleep around until such time they find that woman they wish to commit to (i.e. buy) DON'T have the right tools, or are willing to put in the effort to keep that house standing.

 

Are there men who are womanizers? You betcha. Are there men who will lie to a woman, tell her he wants a RL when he does not? Of course!

 

However, there are also men who are legitimately seeking commitment....men who are, in fact, buyers, but have yet to find a woman they wish to commit to.

 

And until such time they do....they will date around, and if the woman is willing (and in many cases actually initiates), he will have sex with her.

 

But once they do find her and commit to her.... their frame of mind is every bit as committed as the guy who chose NOT to date around.

 

As I said, my brother dated around (and yes had sex with different women)....BUT he is now just as committed to his beautiful WIFE as the guy who chose not to date/sleep around. He was raised to believe in commitment and knows how important it is to a healthy, functioning RL (as was I).

 

He has the right tools, the right knowledge and knows what it takes to keep the house standing.

 

He NEVER lied to women, never led them to believe he wanted a RL when he didn't....to the contrary he was always up front and honest...and usually followed her lead...which in many cases was straight to the bedroom.

 

He behaved this way...UNTIL such time he met his now-wife, to whom, again, he is VERY committed and very much in love with. Going on five years for them now (I think...lol)

 

I think it's wrong to paint every man with the same brush. There are good guys and bad guys....just as there are good women and bad women.

 

You have to judge each man (or woman) individually because they are all different..... even though from the outside, they may have had the same experience (of dating multiple women). However, does mean they are all the same on the INSIDE. Some have the right tools and know how keep the house standing....and some don't.

 

I know you don't agree RedRobin and I do respect that. I sense you've been hurt a lot and, as such, your negative experiences have shaped your way of thinking. I am sorry for that, I truly am. I almost want to give you a hug, cause I can feel your pain and hurt in virtually all your posts.

 

However, my personal experiences have been different...I have not experienced such negativity in my life with respect to men, I have been lucky I guess.

 

And as a result, I am able to stay more open and positive....and judge men and women on an individual basis...instead of painting them all with the same brush....just because they share a similar past with respect to their dating experiences.

 

As always wish you the best....

Edited January 27, 2016 by katiegrl

[Rejected Rosebud]

Maybe I am missing something...but how would he KNOW he wants a RL with a particular woman unless and until he dates her awhile?

 

 

Don't you guys even READ the OP???? The title is "How to Avoid the Relationship." He DOES NOT WANT a relationship. With ANYBODY. DOES. NOT. WANT.

[katiegrl]

Don't you guys even READ the OP???? The title is "How to Avoid the Relationship." He DOES NOT WANT a relationship. With ANYBODY. DOES. NOT. WANT.

 

Yeah I realize that and already addressed/acknowledged the oversight in a subsequent post (after I posted the post you quoted).

Edited January 27, 2016 by katiegrl

[Rejected Rosebud]

Exactly. Some people just refuse to see things from outside their narrow view of the world.

OMG. It's not a "narrow view of the world" when we BELIEVE the thread starter here rather than wildly projecting lord knows what upon him!!!

[katiegrl]

This thread has veered off in different directions other than the original topic of the thread.

 

Not pointing fingers, I am guilty myself when responding to others' posts interjecting their own personal thoughts re men, dating, relationships, etc. It's not that unusual when that happens, it happens in most long threads.

 

However, when you read each individual post in context, it's obvious enigma's response as well as others (including most of mine) were not meant for the original poster.

 

They were *in response* to another poster's posts interjecting her own personal thoughts...not related to the subject of this thread.