pre-date interaction guidance

[tasev1]

I think it's pretty much over, and time to move on. She will communicate via text, but when it came to making a plan, I got an excuse that isn't tight, and no effort to compromise or choose to see me another time.

 

She thought my idea on the mini golf was fun, but her theater director started scheduling rehearsals on Saturday and Sunday, so she doesn't know when she'd be able to go.

 

IMO - rehearsals don't take all day. If she really wanted to, she would propose another time, even an hour. At this point I am saying nothing. There isn't a text I could send her that I would think is any good.

 

I'm trying not to let it get to me. What is hard is opportunities come hard for me, and I only ask girl out iam genuinely interested in

[AMJ]

Your approach at the gym was great-and brave. Women are flattered when approached the right way in public. The key is to not creep us out, and it's a fine line to cross. You succeeded there, otherwise she never would have gone out with you in the first place. I'd think twice about hugging women at the gym when you barely know them, because that would creep me out. That's just food for thought.

 

But after that, while she did agree to go out with you, she was gauging whether or not she actually wanted to go out with you during all of the texting. Her suggestion to meet at the dog park was because she thought it would be a safe place to meet you, and further gauge if she wanted to spend more time with you in private.

 

Next time, when you're texting and trying to make plans, try not to be so formal about it. Try to get to know her a little bit in text message- hey, how was your day? ask about the rehearsal, or whatever the woman does for work.

 

I dated a guy recently who acted pretty similar to you. I could tell he was extremely nervous, and I could tell he was calculating every single comment he made to me. I liked him, but every time he'd call me to schedule another date, it felt like I was scheduling a meeting at work. His awkwardness made me uncomfortable, and I wondered how long it would take him to become more relaxed around me- or worse, if he's just this uncomfortable around all people?

 

So, while what others said about giving her a specific date/time/location IS a good idea, I can tell that she was still feeling you out, and you were pushing a little too hard. I would have spent a little more time just talking to her in text, and less time forcing her to agree to go out with you. It's true, you want to get to the point where she's so excited to go out with you, she won't make it hard to find a date/time. The harder a guy tries to get me to commit to a date, the less I want to go out with him. This is not reverse psychology, it's just that we like thinking that we have some semblance of power in the situation. Next time if you feel a woman hesitate to agree to a date, just try to get to know her. Make the date start in a text message. That way when you meet in person, you're not strangers anymore.

 

This is a little bit minor, but if you're sending her a bunch of silly texts while she's getting ready or on her way to meet you for the date, it kinda makes you look nervous. And that's cute, endearing even....but I think you want to appear confident.

 

I don't really get why the dog park was an obstacle for you. Maybe that's because I'm a dog owner, and I know that every activity involving dogs is dirty. When I'm walking my dog, I get his hair all over me, his slobber, whatever. My advice is to take women on dates that you will be comfortable on- things you already enjoy doing, so you're in your element. Maybe it's not a dog park for you?

 

Talking about Valentine's Day to a woman you barely know on a first date, is just risky. Unless the date ends in a seriously sexy kissing session, it's just too much too soon.

 

Don't let it get to you, just move on to the next! And to be honest, I don't really think your chances with her are completely gone. I think you give her some space, and maybe say hello in a month or so next time you see her at the gym. Act like nothing's wrong, ask her how her play went. People give people second chances all the time, if that's what you want.

[tasev1]

OK, so for me I am a text minimalist. I rarely touch my phone, and only use it when I need to. Trying to get to know someone via text for me creates a divide I don't like - I much rather talk to someone in person. It would be the same as online dating for me - a few short messages before giving my phone # for a verbal chat. Like Corey Wayne says - text is for setting dates. Only difference is I'm not as strong or centred as he is. If I built comfort via text, it would take a very long time (like weeks)

 

I had no idea what the dog park would be like. But all things considered, had I not agreed, I likely would not have seen her at all. I totally agree on the Valentine, that is my only real regret. The obstacles being in a muddy park with dress shoes and pants due to going from date to another event.

 

Now, it might be awkward at the gym because we take a group class together. My goal was to simply be of clear intent, and act with conviction (which I've never done to this point).

Edited February 3, 2016 by tasev1

[AMJ]

I'm just trying to give you the feedback I'd give to any of my friends. And I know you've mentioned you're trying to read books about dating, but I think most people just ask their friends for advice. I'm not really sure if the material you're reading is completely helpful on its own. Social cues, for example, are something you have to learn through trial and error.

 

Not knowing what the dog park would be like is a good learning opportunity. Next time you plan a date, make sure you know what to expect. What you should wear, what it's going to be like. I think that's going to help you have better dates. Some people can be successful on a date and be spontaneous, but I think while you're still trying to map this whole process out, that's not the case for you.

 

Also, consider that the reason she even suggested the dog park date was because she wanted to fold you into her schedule. I don't really think walking my dog is a great first blind date idea, unless the other person also has a dog. But even then, the dogs would be a distraction, like you said. You went into the date hoping for a kiss, and while I was reading it, I was thinking, there's no way that will ever happen. She's not even sure if she wants to be on a date with you.

 

And that's because of the aggressive texting/pushing her to commit to a date. Look, I don't really like texting either. I'd much rather talk to someone on the phone. But back to my example about the guy I dated recently who was awkward about setting up dates and talking on the phone-

By the time he called to set up date #4, I finally told him that it made me uncomfortable how awkward and formal our conversations were. I felt like he had a script in his mind about how the conversation was going to go, and if I didn't respond the way he'd planned, or if I'd say something he hadn't anticipated me saying, he literally didn't even know what to say to me. And this was typical-hi, how was your day- type conversation. He admitted that he has a hard time talking on the phone. And he thinks he's better talking in person. But the truth is, he's not much more comfortable to talk to in person. All of our dates were awkward. All of the conversations felt unnatural. He barely laughed or even smiled. He also complained about his mother too much, which was the real red flag.

 

I just think you could really benefit from becoming more comfortable with getting-to-know you conversations while you're in the asking the girl on a date process. Whether it's text or on the phone, or in person...this way the girl has a chance to get to know you better.

[tasev1]

I'm just trying to give you the feedback I'd give to any of my friends. And I know you've mentioned you're trying to read books about dating, but I think most people just ask their friends for advice. I'm not really sure if the material you're reading is completely helpful on its own. Social cues, for example, are something you have to learn through trial and error.

 

Not knowing what the dog park would be like is a good learning opportunity. Next time you plan a date, make sure you know what to expect. What you should wear, what it's going to be like. I think that's going to help you have better dates. Some people can be successful on a date and be spontaneous, but I think while you're still trying to map this whole process out, that's not the case for you.

 

Also, consider that the reason she even suggested the dog park date was because she wanted to fold you into her schedule. I don't really think walking my dog is a great first blind date idea, unless the other person also has a dog. But even then, the dogs would be a distraction, like you said. You went into the date hoping for a kiss, and while I was reading it, I was thinking, there's no way that will ever happen. She's not even sure if she wants to be on a date with you.

 

And that's because of the aggressive texting/pushing her to commit to a date. Look, I don't really like texting either. I'd much rather talk to someone on the phone. But back to my example about the guy I dated recently who was awkward about setting up dates and talking on the phone-

By the time he called to set up date #4, I finally told him that it made me uncomfortable how awkward and formal our conversations were. I felt like he had a script in his mind about how the conversation was going to go, and if I didn't respond the way he'd planned, or if I'd say something he hadn't anticipated me saying, he literally didn't even know what to say to me. And this was typical-hi, how was your day- type conversation. He admitted that he has a hard time talking on the phone. And he thinks he's better talking in person. But the truth is, he's not much more comfortable to talk to in person. All of our dates were awkward. All of the conversations felt unnatural. He barely laughed or even smiled. He also complained about his mother too much, which was the real red flag.

 

I just think you could really benefit from becoming more comfortable with getting-to-know you conversations while you're in the asking the girl on a date process. Whether it's text or on the phone, or in person...this way the girl has a chance to get to know you better.

 

That is an excellent explanation, I truly appreciate your efforts AMJ. Only recently have I been really learning to identify what I am doing wrong in my actions. I hope I can see flourishing success this year in my dating life. I am gaining a lot of awarenesses I never had before and now I just need to apply and hone my skills, letting them become independent in the process.

[hasaquestion]

I'm just trying to give you the feedback I'd give to any of my friends. And I know you've mentioned you're trying to read books about dating, but I think most people just ask their friends for advice. I'm not really sure if the material you're reading is completely helpful on its own. Social cues, for example, are something you have to learn through trial and error.

 

Yep. And there's an error in "Trial and error" for a reason. It only works if you f**k up early and often.

[tasev1]

Yep. And there's an error in "Trial and error" for a reason. It only works if you f**k up early and often.

 

That's just the thing, though....I've never had the friends to ask for advice, or parents to set an example. I never made it far enough with a girl to figure out what I was doing wrong before I gave up entirely. And girls don't exactly give explicit feedback either. Generally, friends are the worst to ask for advice because they are no better than you are. The people I would ask for advice are those that know how to have a strong relationship.

 

The old advice of "she'll come when you least expect it", and "just be yourself" mean nothing without the full context of their meanings - none of which are ever explained. What it should really be defined as is: Be the BEST VERSION of yourself, and when you are a strong, centred man living his life and being passionate and driven in his work and attitude, women will be naturally attracted to you.

[Phenx]

That's just the thing, though....I've never had the friends to ask for advice, or parents to set an example. I never made it far enough with a girl to figure out what I was doing wrong before I gave up entirely. And girls don't exactly give explicit feedback either. Generally, friends are the worst to ask for advice because they are no better than you are. The people I would ask for advice are those that know how to have a strong relationship.

 

The old advice of "she'll come when you least expect it", and "just be yourself" mean nothing without the full context of their meanings - none of which are ever explained. What it should really be defined as is: Be the BEST VERSION of yourself, and when you are a strong, centred man living his life and being passionate and driven in his work and attitude, women will be naturally attracted to you.

 

That is what its all about! Passion in being the person you are and loving what you do. Sounds like you have the right mindset.

 

Obviously you are a little out of your element here with dating. I would agree that you still have a shot with this girl in the future but don't get hung up over her. Focus on going out and being social. I went through a depression a couple years ago and it sucked. Eventually I said screw it and started going out every night to bars and events. Literally for 3 weeks straight I went out every night (mostly by myself as most people cant afford or have the energy to go out that much) and made friends all over the place. I think it taught me that persistence pays off but most of all you just simply get experience and revitalize yourself through trial and error. If you apply the principles of what you just described and put in the leg work and maybe do it with some friends who have similar interests as you then I'm sure you will get a ton of success.

 

Be careful though on who you choose to be wingmen and hang out with. Especially if you are a into partying because a lot of people just want to use you for rides, drugs and alcohol, a place to stay or w.e.

 

At the end of the day just be honest with yourself about what you want and figure that out. Then act accordingly, you will know when you are getting lazy.

And most of all be the guy with confidence. Even if you have none now, just fake it until you naturally start to feel it inside yourself. It WILL HAPPEN if you try at it and once you feel that spark inside yourself and you have success in work/personal life. You will have soo much momentum that the problems you have now will turn into non issues. Of course new more exciting problems will pop up instead but those are the ones you want to be worrying about.

 

Maybe you will have to choose between which girl you want the most next valentine's day (hard decision and the one that loses out will be hurt if you are close to both of them... I'm just realizing how close V day is and damnit...).

 

I think you got it man. Good luck!

[tasev1]

Thanks. The irony is that of everyone I know, I am told Ithat i be the MOST confident of everyone. Confident, just not socially intelligent

 

So I decided to take a leap, and sent a message. She still seems willing to text, so I will slowly rebuild rapport in this way to learn about each other until she indicates the possibility of future interaction.

 

I may still have a chance!

 

Cheers to you all

 

And now I go offer my own advice to others - nothing like sharing what you learn to strengthen that knowledge

[AMJ]

Hmm..how did that go? I would have waited a while to try to contact her again, myself...

[tasev1]

Hmm..how did that go? I would have waited a while to try to contact her again, myself...

 

Seemed OK. I Commented on the extremely good weather we were having and how it made everyone feel great. She said she was busy at work and hadn't been outside, s but also had a headache, so I gave her happy thoughts to help her smile and cheer up a bit (her response was very flattered and happy). I asked her if today was a perfect day, how would she celebrate. After she answered, she asked me too, and liked what I said. After something about cheesecake, that was it. I suppose she went to bed (up early).

 

So yeah.... At least some communication still possible. I had very little to lose, so I took the lesser of two evils so to speak. This way. At least she will know I won't be put off, and as m willing to slow down.

Edited February 4, 2016 by tasev1

[AMJ]

Sounds like good progress to me! Don't text her every day, and wait a little to see if she initiates a conversation. Give her a little time before you try to meet up again...maybe a week or two? But if you feel like there's a good opportunity, take it.