xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Sort of, yes. I define fit as "putting in the same effort on diet and exercise I do and having a similar level of attractiveness." See.,, that's just it. I don't consider image. Women do that. I consider actual fitness and attractiveness. I could care less what contrived image she has. Could be sporty, yoga, goth, death metal, princess, whatever... I don't consider image one bit. But... all women do. So.. i need to adjust mine as per the topic of the thread I am not talking about fitness as image. That's not what "women" think. I'm talking about you going for the Playboy bunny, Porn Star, stripper image. Needing that. Fooling yourself when you say you don't. Those women don't want to homestead. 1
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Ok, fair enough. But I would still say that there is a disconnect here. You say you want to meet a "real" woman who can enjoy all the various interests and topics you are knowledgeable, while also appreciating what you have managed to achieve in terms of personal and financial freedom. But your #1 focus seems to be on physical attraction in the most shallow sort of way. Do you really think that the woman you claim you want to attract will be most concerned with your body over other attributes? There are several different stages of courtship. The first stage involves no communication. It's "first sight." If you don't nail "first sight", you don't get to step #2, "communication." Obviously, first sight depends on appearance and appearance alone. At the point of first sight, the prospective girl knows absolutely nothing about you. You are a face in thousands on tinder, POF, in her followers on instagram or on snapchat, in the crowd at the festival, on the street. In order for your efforts of saying hi to be reciprocated and for you to not get rejected, you need to look better than your competition. This is basic. I have worked my tail off to be better than the competition at "first sight" and it has worked well for me. In first sight stage. What happens is later, a few dates in, my matching of their conversation, lack of compatibility (life goals) and lack of advertising intelligence puts me in the "let's be **** buddies" category. This is what the thread is about. Learning how to advertise the other stuff. The deeper stuff... without being a dbag.
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 I am not talking about fitness as image. That's not what "women" think. I'm talking about you going for the Playboy bunny, Porn Star, stripper image. Needing that. Fooling yourself when you say you don't. Those women don't want to homestead. This couldn't be more correct. I don't need the image of those girls. Just someone as in shape who is nuts and counter culture. Yoga girl was exactly it. But... rotten inside, unfortunately. I can only seem to meet one every 4 years... lol
xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) This couldn't be more correct. I don't need the image of those girls. Just someone as in shape who is nuts and counter culture. Yoga girl was exactly it. But... rotten inside, unfortunately. I can only seem to meet one every 4 years... lol I seriously don't know how you're having so much trouble finding it. I ran in the crowd in my 20s and 30s, so many hot, fit hippie chicks that all settled down with free living guys. THe guys and girls wore clothes reflecting their minimal lifestyle--a few expensive pieces of Patagonia or North Face, along with thrift shop finds... Walk the walk and you'll attract the same. eta....not many are hoping for a guy with a million dollar boat who snapchats with porn stars. That doesn't really fit the counter culture lifestyle. It sounds like some of the worst of mainstream, to be honest. Edited January 24, 2016 by xxoo 3
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 I seriously don't know how you're having so much trouble finding it. I ran in the crowd in my 20s and 30s, so many hot, fit hippie chicks that all settled down with free living guys. THe guys and girls wore clothes reflecting their minimal lifestyle--a few expensive pieces of Patagonia or North Face, along with thrift shop finds... Walk the walk and you'll attract the same. There were a lot in Boston/New England. Yoga chick was from the 495 loop, actually, but left New England as I did, to experience more. You're right. Every last one, except my ex wife was from there. Maybe I need to get out of the big cities and back to my roots. Maybe I'll spend this summer in New England. 1
introverted1 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 There are several different stages of courtship. The first stage involves no communication. It's "first sight." If you don't nail "first sight", you don't get to step #2, "communication." Obviously, first sight depends on appearance and appearance alone. At the point of first sight, the prospective girl knows absolutely nothing about you. You are a face in thousands on tinder, POF, in her followers on instagram or on snapchat, in the crowd at the festival, on the street. In order for your efforts of saying hi to be reciprocated and for you to not get rejected, you need to look better than your competition. This is basic. I have worked my tail off to be better than the competition at "first sight" and it has worked well for me. In first sight stage. What happens is later, a few dates in, my matching of their conversation, lack of compatibility (life goals) and lack of advertising intelligence puts me in the "let's be **** buddies" category. This is what the thread is about. Learning how to advertise the other stuff. The deeper stuff... without being a dbag. I am not sure I agree, LW. I think I am pretty much your target woman in terms of intellectual curiosity + fitness lifestyle. And I can tell you that when I see a guy at a festival or coffee shop or wherever, I am far more attracted by the expression on his face and what he first says to me than to his body. To be sure, I would not be interested in a seriously obese guy, but I am smart enough that I can tell who's got a nice body and who doesn't no matter what he's wearing. And then there is the added thrill of finding out that the body is even better than I expected later on. Frankly, it's easier to find a nice body/face than it is to find someone who can pique my curiosity or make me laugh. If a guy can do one or both of those on the first approach, that first step in your process is sealed. And, in essence, that advertises the other stuff. 4
PrettyEmily77 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I meet a disproportionate number of those, Crucible. I agree with you, but that's not my actual experience. The hot ones are all about money, which I have a fair amount of, but don't advertise (i have no image). The down to earth ones are overweight. I can't find the middle ground in my areas. They're probably married. I was married to and have dated the middle ground before, just finding it takes so many years... I always try to get into your threads with an open mind LW, but any ounce of credibility you may have had got lost in that post. The 'middle ground' exists everywhere but to be entirely honest, a smart, down to earth hottie (and yeah, there are some in your area...) won't want a hook-up addict with a preference for*porn stars no matter the type of convo you choose to start with - smart women, even the young ones, can smell that vibe a mile off. That's over ride the money thing, the free-spirit thing, the self-sufficiency thing and whatever else you've got going on for yourself. You're either still hung up on someone you haven't learned to let go off yet or you have an over inflated image of yourself combined with unrealistic expectations for a LTR partner - neither of which is good, TBH. 1
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 I am not sure I agree, LW. I think I am pretty much your target woman in terms of intellectual curiosity + fitness lifestyle. And I can tell you that when I see a guy at a festival or coffee shop or wherever, I am far more attracted by the expression on his face and what he first says to me than to his body. To be sure, I would not be interested in a seriously obese guy, but I am smart enough that I can tell who's got a nice body and who doesn't no matter what he's wearing. And then there is the added thrill of finding out that the body is even better than I expected later on. Frankly, it's easier to find a nice body/face than it is to find someone who can pique my curiosity or make me laugh. If a guy can do one or both of those on the first approach, that first step in your process is sealed. And, in essence, that advertises the other stuff. No way. Sit in that coffee shop in your mind a moment. There are all sorts of *strangers* you know nothing about. I have zero..,absolutely zero problems on first approach from a conversation perspective. Let's not forget I've been in serious relationships my entire life and married for 10 years here. All with girls who are exactly what im describing. This is my *first time* being single since high school. So back to the coffee shop. Fat guy approaches you. No go. Doughey pale guy with glasses approaches you. Cute, stylish guy from across the room just smiles at you. Who are you interested in? Looks are *everything* until you get to the point of a conversation. Everything. You can't deny that. Look at the thread that British guy started about hot guys in OLD. 100% correct. You probably like to think any ugly, gross guy will be fine, but when it comes down to it, you're a human being like all the rest of us. You'll go for the one with chemistry. Until someone opens their mouth, chemistry, attractiveness, etc... id *defined* by looks alone.
xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I am not sure I agree, LW. I think I am pretty much your target woman in terms of intellectual curiosity + fitness lifestyle. And I can tell you that when I see a guy at a festival or coffee shop or wherever, I am far more attracted by the expression on his face and what he first says to me than to his body. To be sure, I would not be interested in a seriously obese guy, but I am smart enough that I can tell who's got a nice body and who doesn't no matter what he's wearing. And then there is the added thrill of finding out that the body is even better than I expected later on. Exactly. Plus, form follows function. If a guy is into active stuff, he's going to have a nice body. Women in this lifestyle (equally active) simply expect it. It doesn't need to be advertised, and certainly shouldn't be the main selling point.
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Exactly. Plus, form follows function. If a guy is into active stuff, he's going to have a nice body. Women in this lifestyle (equally active) simply expect it. It doesn't need to be advertised, and certainly shouldn't be the main selling point. Ok... why not? I could wear some baggy shirts and see what happens. My usual experience is baggy shirts = no attention or second looks from girls. Tight shirts = smiles, flirting, getting jumped for sex.
clia Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 And... this is stuff you are judged on as a man... your financial standing. Once, I had a girl and her friends out on my unfinished boat. The boat build timeline and budget came up. I told them. I think they thought I was lying and that my very, very high end, high performance boat was worth nothing. It is in the process of getting an interior right now. Looks very rough inside. That girl did a fade after visiting the boat, assuming I was poor. (it's a $1m boat, I think they thought it was worth $5000... lol ) Stuff like that. people don't understand these things. I think part of the disconnect is that you're living in the construction zone. That is going to put off a lot of girls. I would be wondering why a guy who has a million dollar boat is living like that and it would probably make me doubt the truth of his story, or at minimum wonder if he could really afford the boat. The perception just doesn't add up. I doubt most people would want to live like that for long. That's why a bunch of us suggested you rent an apartment until the interior of your boat is in better shape. You can't expect to bring women to a construction zone with no bathroom and have them be impressed. (Maybe only if she is a woman who knows a lot about boats!) I would think during the normal course of conversation you could sprinkle in information about your past accomplishments and situation. You can explain the car away as suggested by simply saying it's not compatible with your lifestyle, but in a place like FL, that's tough. It's a driving place. And again...million dollar boat and no car? Won't make sense to a lot of girls, especially the type you go after.
introverted1 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 No way. Sit in that coffee shop in your mind a moment. There are all sorts of *strangers* you know nothing about. I have zero..,absolutely zero problems on first approach from a conversation perspective. Let's not forget I've been in serious relationships my entire life and married for 10 years here. All with girls who are exactly what im describing. This is my *first time* being single since high school. So back to the coffee shop. Fat guy approaches you. No go. Doughey pale guy with glasses approaches you. Cute, stylish guy from across the room just smiles at you. Who are you interested in? Looks are *everything* until you get to the point of a conversation. Everything. You can't deny that. Look at the thread that British guy started about hot guys in OLD. 100% correct. You probably like to think any ugly, gross guy will be fine, but when it comes down to it, you're a human being like all the rest of us. You'll go for the one with chemistry. Until someone opens their mouth, chemistry, attractiveness, etc... id *defined* by looks alone. Wait a minute -- you don't get to tell me how I react in the coffee shop. The guy I had the most awesome relationship of my life with, who rocked my world in and out of bed, was homely. But, my god, he could make me laugh and make me think and the sex was amazing. I already said that the morbidly obese guy would not attract me (I'd still talk to him, though). But I've talked to quite a lot of average looking guys at the coffee shop and, yes, I've dated the ones I thought were interesting and funny. Here's the thing, at least for me: a person's attractiveness can grow based on their personality and how I feel about them. So a guy who is objectively a 5 (just an example, I don't actually rate guys) can become an 8 or 9 based on how I feel. But a guy who is an 8 or 9 in appearance will never become more interesting or funnier or smarter because there is nothing to discover that will make my feelings grow. 3
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 won't want a hook-up addict with a preference for*porn stars no matter the type of convo you choose to start with - smart women, even the young ones, can smell that vibe a mile off. Um... was newly divorced and blowing off steam? Back to normal now, but still in areas where hookups are all that's available to me (subject of the thread, btw) and porn stars and stuff are finding me on social media. I think I'll go back to new England a bit. xxoo was right about that.
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Wait a minute -- you don't get to tell me how I react in the coffee shop. The guy I had the most awesome relationship of my life with, who rocked my world in and out of bed, was homely. But, my god, he could make me laugh and make me think and the sex was amazing. I already said that the morbidly obese guy would not attract me (I'd still talk to him, though). But I've talked to quite a lot of average looking guys at the coffee shop and, yes, I've dated the ones I thought were interesting and funny. Here's the thing, at least for me: a person's attractiveness can grow based on their personality and how I feel about them. So a guy who is objectively a 5 (just an example, I don't actually rate guys) can become an 8 or 9 based on how I feel. But a guy who is an 8 or 9 in appearance will never become more interesting or funnier or smarter because there is nothing to discover that will make my feelings grow. Ok, I feel that. It's true. Personality does make people more (or less) attractive. You're a rare girl though. (and talking to literally everyone sounds like the opposite of introverted..?) The vast, vast majority make a snap judgment based on looks initially, like guys do. Take social media. You have an inbox full of guys on instagram. Which ones do you look at? All of them, or the ones from the guys who look cute? Just read this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/566952-online-dating-hot-guys That's how it works 99.9% of the time.
introverted1 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Ok... why not? I could wear some baggy shirts and see what happens. My usual experience is baggy shirts = no attention or second looks from girls. Tight shirts = smiles, flirting, getting jumped for sex. What about a well-fitting shirt that is neither baggy nor tight? Like, a regular shirt? And I will reiterate what others have said: if you are wanting to draw girls who will jump on you for sex just based on seeing you, then I question how serious you are about wanting to find this other woman you've described -- the one who wants to talk about existentialism, neurosurgery, antique cars, etc. 2
xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Ok... why not? I could wear some baggy shirts and see what happens. My usual experience is baggy shirts = no attention or second looks from girls. Tight shirts = smiles, flirting, getting jumped for sex. Do you expect the homesteading, off the grid type to jump you for sex?
PrettyEmily77 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Um... was newly divorced and blowing off steam? Back to normal now, but still in areas where hookups are all that's available to me (subject of the thread, btw) and porn stars and stuff are finding me on social media. I think I'll go back to new England a bit. xxoo was right about that. Well, you might want to be consistent with yourself at least, because apparently you were still involved in the hook-up culture (whatever that is) only a few posts ago... Go to new England if you think it's a geographical issue (I personally doubt it, but hope I'm wrong for your sake)... Good luck with it all.
introverted1 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Ok, I feel that. It's true. Personality does make people more (or less) attractive. You're a rare girl though. (and talking to literally everyone sounds like the opposite of introverted..?) The vast, vast majority make a snap judgment based on looks initially, like guys do. Take social media. You have an inbox full of guys on instagram. Which ones do you look at? All of them, or the ones from the guys who look cute? Just read this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/566952-online-dating-hot-guys That's how it works 99.9% of the time. I like talking to people. I just need a healthy amount of alone time in which to recharge. I also spend a lot of time in my own head. Hence, introvert (INTJ, to be specific). I don't OLD. I tried it once and hated it. And it wasn't because the guys weren't good looking enough. It was because they'd write uninspired messages with spelling and/or grammar errors or say that they didn't like to read. And there was no amount of physical attraction that could compensate. I've come to accept that my particular blend of me-ness is not well-suited to OLD... or even to most men! 1
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Do you expect the homesteading, off the grid type to jump you for sex? Lifestyle preferences have nothing to do with physical attraction. Again, I refer everyone to this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/566952-online-dating-hot-guys This is how it really works. If you hone your appearance well enough, it makes no difference what interests/lifestyle the girl has. They still want to hook up. They are physically attracted to you. Half of what's needed for something real. The issue is... later, I don't have the right advertising skills to take it well beyond, getting disqualified as per the topic of the thread. The only issues here are: 1) I'm meeting the wrong types of girls 2) I'm not advertising myself the right way later on... circa 3rd, 4th date.
xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Lifestyle preferences have nothing to do with physical attraction. Again, I refer everyone to this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/566952-online-dating-hot-guys This is how it really works. If you hone your appearance well enough, it makes no difference what interests/lifestyle the girl has. They still want to hook up. They are physically attracted to you. Half of what's needed for something real. The issue is... later, I don't have the right advertising skills to take it well beyond, getting disqualified as per the topic of the thread. The only issues here are: 1) I'm meeting the wrong types of girls 2) I'm not advertising myself the right way later on... circa 3rd, 4th date. So, what you want is to hook up with hot chicks. What's the problem, then? I thought this thread was about searching for something deeper than hook ups. Why do your hook ups need to know about your knowledge, or share your interests??? 5
Art_Critic Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 You shouldn't have to reveal your knowledge when you are dating, if you trying to win someone over with what you know it will fail... Just be you and stop trying to impress young woman with knowledge or a boat worth 1 mil. You would be surprised what many of us posting in this thread are worth.. I'll tell you this.. I might also remind you that while you have a net worth of 1 mil or 1 mil+ you haven't got much income as you have spent everything you have in your boat and THAT comes off and shows when you bring these young woman to your boat.. There is more to life than a boat, at least that is what those young women see when they put 2 + 2 together and figure out that dating you means just the boat.. I'm not knocking it.. I would love to live that way but you created a thread about knowledge and dating and they are taking their own knowledge and judging you.. if you don't want to be judged then change something.. get an apartment in NY and put your boat in a slip and work on it on the weekends...
Author loveweary11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 I like talking to people. I just need a healthy amount of alone time in which to recharge. I also spend a lot of time in my own head. Hence, introvert (INTJ, to be specific). I don't OLD. I tried it once and hated it. And it wasn't because the guys weren't good looking enough. It was because they'd write uninspired messages with spelling and/or grammar errors or say that they didn't like to read. And there was no amount of physical attraction that could compensate. I've come to accept that my particular blend of me-ness is not well-suited to OLD... or even to most men! Same. Omg... didn't like to read... I've definitely seen that one before. I'm talking about instagram and snpchat, though, really. Not online dating. Just friends, acquaintances and new friends who become interested in you. That's not OLD. People aren't just out looking. I also tried online dating and found none to really hold my interest either. But scary as it is, we share a lot in common. My particular blend is exactly the same as yours in that only a narrow slice of the population is compatible. I'm getting all off track here following the thread drift, when I'm really trying to ask about the topic of the thread. Granted, I need to go elsewhere to expose myself to people more interested in alternative lifestyles of travel and adventure, but really, the thread is about how to project the right image a few dates down the road, so I don't keep ending up as a hookup vs. LTR potential.
xxoo Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 the thread is about how to project the right image a few dates down the road, so I don't keep ending up as a hookup vs. LTR potential. But you're still making arguments about what outfits get you jumped for sex, and posting links about "hot guys" using online dating. You don't date for LTR potential. You date for hookups, from beginning to end. Why are you surprised that you're not being considered by the serious women? 4
BlueIris Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Lifestyle preferences have nothing to do with physical attraction. Again, I refer everyone to this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/566952-online-dating-hot-guys This is how it really works. If you hone your appearance well enough, it makes no difference what interests/lifestyle the girl has. They still want to hook up. They are physically attracted to you. Half of what's needed for something real. The issue is... later, I don't have the right advertising skills to take it well beyond, getting disqualified as per the topic of the thread. The only issues here are: 1) I'm meeting the wrong types of girls 2) I'm not advertising myself the right way later on... circa 3rd, 4th date. But that is all about instant gratification thinking. People who choose by muscles and cool clothes attract people who prioritize muscles and cool clothes. Not a lot of intellectuals choose on that basis, or at least on that basis alone, especially in their 40’s. You can’t “advertise” personality and intelligence because no one can tell if someone is intelligent and has an interesting personality by looking at them, or within a few minutes. There are disconnects in the way you think. My usual experience is baggy shirts = no attention or second looks from girls. Tight shirts = smiles, flirting, getting jumped for sex. Your goal when going into a coffee shop is to “get jumped for sex” and that’s what you’re advertising. Most people in their 30’s and 40’s who prioritize intelligence and personality tend to relate and date through work, social circles and activities, because they’re looking for more than clothes and muscles and aren’t making insta-decisions. 5
losangelena Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 You're a rare girl though. (and talking to literally everyone sounds like the opposite of introverted..?) The vast, vast majority make a snap judgment based on looks initially, like guys do. The vast majority of the vain, materialistic women you talk to, that is. There is a vast sea of attractive, fit, intelligent, non-materialistic women who you somehow refuse to acknowledge exist. And I will reiterate what others have said: if you are wanting to draw girls who will jump on you for sex just based on seeing you, then I question how serious you are about wanting to find this other woman you've described -- the one who wants to talk about existentialism, neurosurgery, antique cars, etc. Same. 4
Recommended Posts