Dating for a socially awkward 30yo male?

[spriggan2]

Hi, so I'm a 30 year old guy and I've had social anxiety all my life. I let it consume me without worrying too much. I just wore hoodies everywhere and listened to headphones and read old sci-fi books all the time. Had absolutely no friends. Thought I'd be a reclusive writer and make it big with some amazing novel about dimensions. That obviously didn't work out.

 

Anyway I've been in the process of getting my act together for about a year now. I got a decent full time job, a decent apartment, I'm becoming fashionable, grooming, and I get complimented on being 6ft2 and looking good. I have a therapist and I'm reading about anxiety and improving through a lot of exposure therapy.

 

I started dating this girl in June who my brother set me up with. She dumped me 3 weeks ago I think because I was inexperienced and she wasn't the type to get me up to speed while still maintaining attraction. The breakup hurt a lot, but it definitely motivated me to pick up my self improvement pace.

 

I joined Tinder and made a lot of connections with women. I've started asking them out on dates, but I still have a lot of social anxiety. I see that women are mainly into confident, assertive guys and I'm not there yet.

 

So I have a few questions: How bad is it to go out on dates with socially awkward people? Do I need to wait a little longer until I've gained more conversation skills? I plan on making an effort and paying for the date, but I guess I'm a bit apprehensive about my first experiences being disastrous. What is expected of me on dates? What kind of dates might be appropriate? (I'm thinking basic dinner dates or shows) And do I go in for the kiss on the first date?

 

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

[HillValley]

Half-empty/half-full?

 

Some people can't even get dates. You were able to maintain a relationship for half a year. You aren't starting at zero. You're building over on a new foundation.

 

Don't put yourself down. Relationships end.

[Robratory]

Anyway I've been in the process of getting my act together for about a year now. I got a decent full time job, a decent apartment, I'm becoming fashionable, grooming, and I get complimented on being 6ft2 and looking good. I have a therapist and I'm reading about anxiety and improving through a lot of exposure therapy.

 

. . .

 

So I have a few questions: How bad is it to go out on dates with socially awkward people? Do I need to wait a little longer until I've gained more conversation skills? I plan on making an effort and paying for the date, but I guess I'm a bit apprehensive about my first experiences being disastrous. What is expected of me on dates? What kind of dates might be appropriate? (I'm thinking basic dinner dates or shows) And do I go in for the kiss on the first date?

 

Hey, it's great that you've decided to reboot into a new you. And you have a therapist? Fantastic.

 

Nobody you date needs to know you're socially awkward. Don't wear the term like a label. Definitely don't tell girls you just started dating anything about your struggles or anything like that. And no, you don't need to wait until you gain conversations skills. How can you gain those skills if you're not practicing?

 

As for paying for a date, general etiquette applies. If you invite a girl to a cup of coffee or a bite to eat (try not to make big productions out of first dates), offer to pay. You offer to pay not because you're the man but because you were the one who extended the invitation. If she prefers to go dutch, don't argue. And if she offers to pick up the whole check, which shouldn't be more than ten bucks or so, don't argue and say thank you.

 

There really aren't expectations on dates. Do you go in for a kiss on a first date? It all depends. If she's agreeable, why not? You have to read her attitude and body language, and this is where a lot of guys get stuck. They start reading books about body language, and they learn dumb stuff like "if she plays with her hair, it means she's interested." Or it could mean she's bored. Or it could mean she's had this nervous habit since she was six. You can't read someone according to rules. You can only read them according to their reaction to you. It's individual. It can't be turned into one-size rules for everybody.

 

Here's something that helps with social anxiety. Be interested in other people. In your daily life, at the supermarket, at the gym, walking down the street, wherever, notice people. And when you happen to catch each other's eye, smile and nod. I don't mean this in a flirty or romantic way. Do it to guys, do it to old ladies, do it to kids. I'm not saying to walk around with a fool's grin plastered on your face, but have a ready smile for those moments when you and someone else mutually acknowledge your humanity.

 

People with social anxiety often divert their gaze as soon as their glance meets someone else's, and they do this so quickly that they never notice the other person's face. If you do that and stop doing it, you will notice many times that it's the other person who starts the smile first. People like to be acknowledged, but it's easy to miss that because social anxiety makes us so self-focused.

 

If there are people you repeatedly see in your daily life but don't know, make a point of saying hi. If you're walking down your street, and your neighbor two houses down is watering his front lawn, wave and say how's it going?

[mike_89]

So I have a few questions: How bad is it to go out on dates with socially awkward people? Do I need to wait a little longer until I've gained more conversation skills? I plan on making an effort and paying for the date, but I guess I'm a bit apprehensive about my first experiences being disastrous. What is expected of me on dates? What kind of dates might be appropriate? (I'm thinking basic dinner dates or shows) And do I go in for the kiss on the first date?

Don't wait. Really. If you're 6ft2, good looking with a good job, a nice place and good manners you're already in a very good spot. Another reason: how do you get better conversation skills? By practising. So go on a lot of dates, and the more dates you'll have, the more comfortable you'll be on dates and the better your dates will be.

What is expected of you? Basically just to not be a creep or a weirdo, and to be able to have a nice conversation.

First date? Just have a nice drink somewhere or if you're into something more active and adventurous (these are great dates during the summer!) hiking, kayaking, kart racing,... It's a good idea to create a basic first date for yourself. A template that you can use for every first date. The more the first date is the same every time, the easier it'll be to have this first date because you're in familiar territory, you know the place, the people working there, etc. For example: my first date during the winter is always a drink at my favourite English pub and then a stroll through the nearby park if the weather allows it. Dinner dates are not a good idea for the first date, it's not casual enough and if she is weird or crazy you're stuck with this girl until your dinner is finished. Dinner is a great second date.

You can go in for the kiss on the first date. Personally I prefer not to because I'm always in public places at the first date, and it makes me feel uncomfortable to kiss some girl I don't really know in full view of the public. You need to develop your own style. Keep in mind that there will be girls who don't want to kiss on the first date in public. To avoid this awkwardness you could just save it for the second date, when you are somewhere more secluded.

[testmeasure]

Ok, first inexperience is not an issue. Get that out of your mind. If someone broke up with you over that at age 30 it's their loss. This is not a pep talk, I'm being serious.

 

The older people get, the more baggage they have from past relationships.

 

You may understand those words, but they probably can't be very real or mean much. By the time people are your age, they have expectations, rules, assumptions and probably emotional damage from past relationships.

 

At your age women are looking to get serious, settle down and have kids. They also have a short time to do it. One of the biggest concerns is picking the wrong guy with emotional baggage from past relationships, possibly including emotional damage and then starting a family with the wrong person.

 

Women can have kids up to age 40, even 45. But that doesn't make it ideal. It's better if it's 35 or before. If a woman your age wants to have 2 kids, that takes 2 or 3 years to actually do that. So, if they want to do it by 35, that gives them 2 years with a guy before having kids.

 

At your age women need to be making smart choices. A lot of people in their 20s don't settle down and have long term relationships. That means women your age are going to encounter a bunch of guys who have had many relationships, likely none lasting for even a year. Now the women need a long term commitment from someone who's got a repeat track record a half a dozen to a dozen relationships, none of which lasted more than a year? Or possibly they find someone who has only had a handful of longer relationships, but with that comes more intense emotional baggage or damage from the relationship and/or breakup.

 

Just like someone told you to stop labeling yourself as having social anxiety, I'm going to say stop using the word inexperienced. It has negative undertones for something there is absolutely nothing negative about.

 

Just say that you've never dated much and the one relationship you had lasted 6 months. That's gold.

 

If they ask you why you never dated much, try to focus on telling them what you did do. Don't tell them about social anxiety or inexperience. Tell them you were focused on your dream of being an author.

 

You haven't given enough information to piece together how you would present your transformation from a dreamer with a vision onto a more practical realistic job and career. But to a female who is looking for someone to settle down with and work together to raise and support a family, that might be a very appealing story. They certainly don't want someone who is going to turn 40, feel like they never got to try at their dream and then have a mid life crisis and run off to pursue some unfulfilled dream.

 

That you explored your dream, returned to a practical path and now are looking for a partner and possibly to start a family would show you're on exactly the page they need someone to be on at this age and stage.

 

There is actually more upside to your path through life than there is down side. Your biggest concern should actually be conditioning yourself not to go with the first woman who accepts you just because she accepts you.

 

The biggest problem I think you face is that you need to be picky too. (within reason)

 

Specific individual questions:

 

Keep dating for experience, I agree with others.

 

First date kiss? I'll give you a unique strange answer. No. Never initiate a kiss on the first date. But be ready for a girl to initiate it with you. The first time a girl kisses you on the first date, think about what happened. After that, if you're on a first date, and a situation really seems to call for a kiss, consider initiating it. This is a mine field for anyone. Never kissing on a first date unless the girl initiates it is by itself a good rule overall. My rule gives you some room to improvise after you've had at least one experience with a girl initiating it.

 

If you both make it to the end of the date, I'd always offer a hug even if it's clear to both of you that the first date is also the last. Offer the hug verbally but wait for her verbal or non verbal response before initiating it. If it's turned down, offer a hand shake. The parting hug is a great opportunity for her to kiss you on the cheek. If she does, reciprocate and kiss her on the cheek in return. Some girls might even do the cheek kiss out of habit. Even if she just did it out of habit, she's not going to freak if you kiss her back on the cheek, because in the habit case, it's what she's used to. The proximity and reciprocation sets up the perfect opportunity for her to initiate a full kiss. Don't expect it or be disappointed if she doesn't. Stick to offering hugs and letting her initiate any kissing with you reciprocating.

 

Coffee is a good first date. You're not trapped at dinner. But you need to be aware of what effect coffee has on your anxiety. If coffee is a problem for you, then you might have to get creative. Whatever the first date, it should provide an opportunity to talk and get to know each other. A walk in the park or on the beach are great (in a very public place, you don't want to seem creepy). A museum dedicated to a subject of mutual interest could create great conversation. If you're doing online dating, get ideas from the profile. Make sure they are public places, give you an opportunity to talk and get to know each other, but don't trap you together for hours on end. If you're chatting with them in on line dating, you can ask them what their favorite kind of first date is.

Edited January 23, 2016 by testmeasure

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Hi, so I'm a 30 year old guy and I've had social anxiety all my life. I let it consume me without worrying too much. I just wore hoodies everywhere and listened to headphones and read old sci-fi books all the time. Had absolutely no friends. Thought I'd be a reclusive writer and make it big with some amazing novel about dimensions. That obviously didn't work out.

 

Anyway I've been in the process of getting my act together for about a year now. I got a decent full time job, a decent apartment, I'm becoming fashionable, grooming, and I get complimented on being 6ft2 and looking good. I have a therapist and I'm reading about anxiety and improving through a lot of exposure therapy.

 

I started dating this girl in June who my brother set me up with. She dumped me 3 weeks ago I think because I was inexperienced and she wasn't the type to get me up to speed while still maintaining attraction. The breakup hurt a lot, but it definitely motivated me to pick up my self improvement pace.

 

I joined Tinder and made a lot of connections with women. I've started asking them out on dates, but I still have a lot of social anxiety. I see that women are mainly into confident, assertive guys and I'm not there yet.

 

So I have a few questions: How bad is it to go out on dates with socially awkward people? Do I need to wait a little longer until I've gained more conversation skills? I plan on making an effort and paying for the date, but I guess I'm a bit apprehensive about my first experiences being disastrous. What is expected of me on dates? What kind of dates might be appropriate? (I'm thinking basic dinner dates or shows) And do I go in for the kiss on the first date?

 

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

 

That girl you dated in June, have you dated any other girls besides her?

[spriggan2]

Wow...thank you all so much for the feedback. It's really useful, and I actually was considering laying it out there that I have social phobia, but after hearing the responses I get why that's a bad idea for early dates. Probably a bad idea for my new outlook in general.

 

Definitely feeling better about the whole thing.

 

@Jaeger, that girl was the first girl I ever dated, had sex with, or even kissed. Ive been out of the romantic loop my entire life. I always thought I would be miserable for missing a decade or so of relationships, and maybe I will in the future, but now it's sort of fun getting into it.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Wow...thank you all so much for the feedback. It's really useful, and I actually was considering laying it out there that I have social phobia, but after hearing the responses I get why that's a bad idea for early dates. Probably a bad idea for my new outlook in general.

 

Definitely feeling better about the whole thing.

 

@Jaeger, that girl was the first girl I ever dated, had sex with, or even kissed. Ive been out of the romantic loop my entire life. I always thought I would be miserable for missing a decade or so of relationships, and maybe I will in the future, but now it's sort of fun getting into it.

 

Oh wow, so you were a virgin until like age 29 or 30? Because I don't know if you just turned 30 recently

[spriggan2]

Lol don't rub it in

[Satu]

Shift your focus from yourself to the other person.

 

Attention is a food we all need. Give people your full attention for however long you are in their company.

 

Don't worry about what to say, instead become a very good listener. Good talkers are ten a penny, but good listeners are rare.

 

Learn to laugh at yourself, and your awkwardness, rather than worrying about it.

 

What have you got to lose?

[preraph]

I always would advise socially anxious people to do what you're doing (therapy) but to remember that before you are ready for dating, you should first work at making a circle of friends with your new skills. Once you have a few friends, dating will come a lot easier because you'll meet people through them and going places with them. You can't go from a place of not being social enough to maintain friends to having a successful dating situation because you won't have the skillset to socialize with her or around other people. It isn't that hard. You just have to want to do it bad enough to put yourself through some initial discomfort.

[Robratory]

I actually was considering laying it out there that I have social phobia, but after hearing the responses I get why that's a bad idea for early dates. Probably a bad idea for my new outlook in general.

 

Yep! Like they say in therapy, "Fake it till you make it." That means you should pretend you don't have social phobia until you don't have to pretend any longer.

[Robratory]

Lol don't rub it in

 

You know, once you have sex the first time, experience stops being an issue. I married at 18, and we were both virgins, but within weeks we were basically up to speed. There's nothing to learn because it's all a matter of imagination. Well, ok, you do have to learn what each other likes, but every new couple has to do that.

 

In other words, don't worry about it. Just be imaginative.

[sin miedo]

Oh wow, so you were a virgin until like age 29 or 30? Because I don't know if you just turned 30 recently

 

Oh come on, there's no need for trolling or put downs, BAJ

 

OP, sounds like you have the right mindset, and really that's most of the battle. My advice for becoming less socially awkward on dates would be to practice conversation as much as you can, even with people with whom you are not "going for." If you do that, it will surely carry over to your romantic life.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Ok, first inexperience is not an issue. Get that out of your mind. If someone broke up with you over that at age 30 it's their loss. This is not a pep talk, I'm being serious.

 

The older people get, the more baggage they have from past relationships.

 

You may understand those words, but they probably can't be very real or mean much. By the time people are your age, they have expectations, rules, assumptions and probably emotional damage from past relationships.

 

At your age women are looking to get serious, settle down and have kids. They also have a short time to do it. One of the biggest concerns is picking the wrong guy with emotional baggage from past relationships, possibly including emotional damage and then starting a family with the wrong person.

 

Women can have kids up to age 40, even 45. But that doesn't make it ideal. It's better if it's 35 or before. If a woman your age wants to have 2 kids, that takes 2 or 3 years to actually do that. So, if they want to do it by 35, that gives them 2 years with a guy before having kids.

 

At your age women need to be making smart choices. A lot of people in their 20s don't settle down and have long term relationships. That means women your age are going to encounter a bunch of guys who have had many relationships, likely none lasting for even a year. Now the women need a long term commitment from someone who's got a repeat track record a half a dozen to a dozen relationships, none of which lasted more than a year? Or possibly they find someone who has only had a handful of longer relationships, but with that comes more intense emotional baggage or damage from the relationship and/or breakup.

 

Just like someone told you to stop labeling yourself as having social anxiety, I'm going to say stop using the word inexperienced. It has negative undertones for something there is absolutely nothing negative about.

 

Just say that you've never dated much and the one relationship you had lasted 6 months. That's gold.

 

If they ask you why you never dated much, try to focus on telling them what you did do. Don't tell them about social anxiety or inexperience. Tell them you were focused on your dream of being an author.

 

You haven't given enough information to piece together how you would present your transformation from a dreamer with a vision onto a more practical realistic job and career. But to a female who is looking for someone to settle down with and work together to raise and support a family, that might be a very appealing story. They certainly don't want someone who is going to turn 40, feel like they never got to try at their dream and then have a mid life crisis and run off to pursue some unfulfilled dream.

 

That you explored your dream, returned to a practical path and now are looking for a partner and possibly to start a family would show you're on exactly the page they need someone to be on at this age and stage.

 

There is actually more upside to your path through life than there is down side. Your biggest concern should actually be conditioning yourself not to go with the first woman who accepts you just because she accepts you.

 

The biggest problem I think you face is that you need to be picky too. (within reason)

 

Specific individual questions:

 

Keep dating for experience, I agree with others.

 

First date kiss? I'll give you a unique strange answer. No. Never initiate a kiss on the first date. But be ready for a girl to initiate it with you. The first time a girl kisses you on the first date, think about what happened. After that, if you're on a first date, and a situation really seems to call for a kiss, consider initiating it. This is a mine field for anyone. Never kissing on a first date unless the girl initiates it is by itself a good rule overall. My rule gives you some room to improvise after you've had at least one experience with a girl initiating it.

 

If you both make it to the end of the date, I'd always offer a hug even if it's clear to both of you that the first date is also the last. Offer the hug verbally but wait for her verbal or non verbal response before initiating it. If it's turned down, offer a hand shake. The parting hug is a great opportunity for her to kiss you on the cheek. If she does, reciprocate and kiss her on the cheek in return. Some girls might even do the cheek kiss out of habit. Even if she just did it out of habit, she's not going to freak if you kiss her back on the cheek, because in the habit case, it's what she's used to. The proximity and reciprocation sets up the perfect opportunity for her to initiate a full kiss. Don't expect it or be disappointed if she doesn't. Stick to offering hugs and letting her initiate any kissing with you reciprocating.

 

Coffee is a good first date. You're not trapped at dinner. But you need to be aware of what effect coffee has on your anxiety. If coffee is a problem for you, then you might have to get creative. Whatever the first date, it should provide an opportunity to talk and get to know each other. A walk in the park or on the beach are great (in a very public place, you don't want to seem creepy). A museum dedicated to a subject of mutual interest could create great conversation. If you're doing online dating, get ideas from the profile. Make sure they are public places, give you an opportunity to talk and get to know each other, but don't trap you together for hours on end. If you're chatting with them in on line dating, you can ask them what their favorite kind of first date is.

 

"But be ready for a girl to initiate it with you", ummm girls expect guys to initiate the first kiss, they expect the guy to go for it

[testmeasure]

"But be ready for a girl to initiate it with you", ummm girls expect guys to initiate the first kiss, they expect the guy to go for it

 

 

Go back and look at the context. That paragraph starts with "First date kiss?" You grabbed the 4th sentence of the answer.

 

 

It relates back to his question in the original post about kissing on the first date.

 

 

I was advising him not to initiate a kiss on the first date. But there is still the off chance that a girl could initiate one with him, and I didn't want him to have reaction of shock or turning to avoid it or something.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Go back and look at the context. That paragraph starts with "First date kiss?" You grabbed the 4th sentence of the answer.

 

 

It relates back to his question in the original post about kissing on the first date.

 

 

I was advising him not to initiate a kiss on the first date. But there is still the off chance that a girl could initiate one with him, and I didn't want him to have reaction of shock or turning to avoid it or something.

 

Still, a guy should never expect a girl to kiss him first

[ZA Dater]

I always would advise socially anxious people to do what you're doing (therapy) but to remember that before you are ready for dating, you should first work at making a circle of friends with your new skills. Once you have a few friends, dating will come a lot easier because you'll meet people through them and going places with them. You can't go from a place of not being social enough to maintain friends to having a successful dating situation because you won't have the skillset to socialize with her or around other people. It isn't that hard. You just have to want to do it bad enough to put yourself through some initial discomfort.

 

Regrettably there is a lot of truth in the above.

[PogoStick]

OP, I suggest your focus be on getting as much social experience as possible.

 

Stop trying to focus so much on dating. Build a social circle. Focus on building a group of friends, go out for parties, sporting events, a few drinks. Join a kickball league or something. Feel free to keep dating, but let it happen more naturally. When you meet a girl who interests you then invite her out for a drink or dinner.

[spriggan2]

Yeah I have definitely begun to socialize more in general, aside from dating.

 

I've joined this work group called toastmasters to practice public presentation speaking twice a month. I'm big into this app called meetup where different groups advertise activities around the city based on a particular interest and anyone who has the app can participate. I had a few friends my freshman year in college who I recently reconnected with but they live in other cities so we hang out on Skype a couple times a week. I go to bars after work about once a week and just play pool with random people. On weekends I go to nightclubs and try to find girls to dance with. I've inquired about hanging out with work colueagues at some of their regular spots.

 

The exposure is definitely there and it's consistent but it's only about 2 months running, so I haven't really gained social skills or made friends or felt any progress apart from just being comfortable and relaxed in those environments.

 

I guess I just wanted feedback on introducing dates into the mix, even if its too early to excel at, but it's not currently my main focus.

Edited January 26, 2016 by spriggan2

[Redhead14]

Hi, so I'm a 30 year old guy and I've had social anxiety all my life. I let it consume me without worrying too much. I just wore hoodies everywhere and listened to headphones and read old sci-fi books all the time. Had absolutely no friends. Thought I'd be a reclusive writer and make it big with some amazing novel about dimensions. That obviously didn't work out.

 

Anyway I've been in the process of getting my act together for about a year now. I got a decent full time job, a decent apartment, I'm becoming fashionable, grooming, and I get complimented on being 6ft2 and looking good. I have a therapist and I'm reading about anxiety and improving through a lot of exposure therapy.

 

I started dating this girl in June who my brother set me up with. She dumped me 3 weeks ago I think because I was inexperienced and she wasn't the type to get me up to speed while still maintaining attraction. The breakup hurt a lot, but it definitely motivated me to pick up my self improvement pace.

 

I joined Tinder and made a lot of connections with women. I've started asking them out on dates, but I still have a lot of social anxiety. I see that women are mainly into confident, assertive guys and I'm not there yet.

 

So I have a few questions: How bad is it to go out on dates with socially awkward people? Do I need to wait a little longer until I've gained more conversation skills? I plan on making an effort and paying for the date, but I guess I'm a bit apprehensive about my first experiences being disastrous. What is expected of me on dates? What kind of dates might be appropriate? (I'm thinking basic dinner dates or shows) And do I go in for the kiss on the first date?

 

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

 

Just get out there. The more you do it, the easier it should get. The truth is probably, that you may meet a woman who just does it for you and all that goes away because you're comfortable enough with her.

 

But, ask as many women as you can for a date and simply go into those dates without expectations. Be a little hopeful and just accept the fact that not every date you go on will be great. That's is true for people without social anxiety as well anyway Practice makes almost perfect . . .

[spriggan2]

So, not to keep bumping this, but I went on my first tinder date and we had a conversation the entire meal. That was partly due to the fact that she talked basically non stop lol. I paid, I thought it was very pleasant, she seemed to be enjoying herself, however absolutely nothing remotely intimate happened. We talked about work and family the whole time.

 

I thought she was cute, and from my end I was into her, but I really couldn't read any signs of romantic interest from her. I didn't initiate any physical advances apart from hello and goodbye hugs. She said she would call me when she got home, but she didn't.

 

I don't know if she thought maybe I might not be into her or if she wasn't into me. I guess I'll reach out to her in a day or two.

[OnlyHonesty]

A good way to practice conversation is to go to a new area and ask people for directions or advice on tourist attractions.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Just get out there. The more you do it, the easier it should get. The truth is probably, that you may meet a woman who just does it for you and all that goes away because you're comfortable enough with her.

 

But, ask as many women as you can for a date and simply go into those dates without expectations. Be a little hopeful and just accept the fact that not every date you go on will be great. That's is true for people without social anxiety as well anyway Practice makes almost perfect . . .

 

what do you mean, he might meet a woman who does it all for him?