PocketBlues Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Hey guys, thanks for reading. I'm sorry it end up too long, but I felt that I needed to let it out. I also wanted to give you a little background information before I got to the real issue. Background information: ---------------------------- I'm 31 and I'm in my second long relationship to date. My first long relationship happened when I was 29 and my girlfriend was 31. It lasted about a year and it ended in good terms because essentially she wanted things that was not ready for (kids). She was very independent and it would bother me sometimes. I had this feeling that the relationship needed some more spiciness, that we had to be on top of each other all the time, but I guess it's because I was eager for a relationship and she was the more mature one. I can say I understand her a bit more now. She had a mellow personality that I liked and a similar sense of humor. She had some emotional issues and insecurities that many woman have, but nothing compared to my current girlfriend, which is the main subject of this post. I don't have a lot of experiences with relationships, but I think I'm a smart guy that learns quite fast. I never really paid attention to feelings as much as now and I'm learning a lot about myself and what makes me happy or not. I think I'm a happy person overall, most of the time. When I get upset or angry, I can manage to analyse those feelings pretty quick after the initial burst of emotions. I don't like to dwell on the past, things that I can't change. I try to be objective and move forward. Despite all of that, the more I learn about myself, it seems I'm a very sensitive person. Current Issue: ---------------------------- I've been with my current girlfriend for about 9 months and things are in a very critical situation, we are on the verge of breaking up (for the record, we already broke up at least twice recently, but that lasted about a day each time). She just turned 26 and I'm 31 now. She is stubborn, selfish, self-righteous, short tempered, controlling, has anger management issues and anxiety. She is a musician pursuing a diploma right now, so she is always busy with practice and school. She is very intense, she is constantly on top of me when we are together, to the point I get annoyed (some people will say it’s karma). Based on that description, you might be thinking she's crazy or that I'm being too harsh. Everything that I described is true, but some of those traits come and go I guess, she's not like that all the time but quite often. She had a traumatic childhood because her parents divorced, her dad moved far, her mom remarried and had another kid. That caused a lot of her current issues. What's about her that made me stick this long, you might ask? Well, she is smart, fun, energetic, likes to do stuff with me, she is pretty and we had a fun sex life. Add that to the fact that I think people can change and that I'm an "easygoing" guy (sometimes I ask whether I'm a pushover or not). I care for people's feelings more than I should. The problem with her is that she can't be upset. I need to be VERY careful not to annoy her otherwise she gets upset and can't control it. She gets upset very easily, with everyone. She rants more often than not about how her family, her school, her friends or the hobos on the street. I live in a big city and she moved here for school and because of an ex boyfriend. When she gets upset she blames the place and constantly say that she needs to go back to where she comes from to be happy again. She can’t parallel park. When she gets upset, she gets into this downwards spiral of bad feelings, of frustration and anger. It's extremely frustrating because I can't really discuss stuff with her. I can't bring my emotions in the picture because she says she can't cope with it. She can't deal with my feelings. I already told her that I feel this relationship is one sided, that it seems I'm putting all the effort to make this work, adapting my behavior to her needs while she simply ignore mine. According to her I have to stop being “too ****ing sensitive”. She said many times she won't change. She constantly blame me for her bad feelings, she blames me for not knowing what to say, for not knowing what to do, for not doing the things she needs me to do. She’s seen a psychologist before and she knows she has issues, but she says she doesn’t have time right now to deal with that. When she gets upset she starts shouting, calling me names, fighting dirty, she even started physically hitting me. She’s says she will kill herself. She does everything she can to hurt me and still I endure. I endure that for a while, then it seems she’s getting calmer but no, another burst and then sometimes I lose my patience even though I know it won’t help. She treats me like a dog when she’s upset. During the fight, when she is almost calming down and I’m very upset by how she is treating me she demands me to say nice things to her, to reassure she is not a bad person. This has been very challenging because I have to control myself, put all those feelings aside to try to make her feel good again. Add to that that I’m not very prolific, so finding the right things to say and saying it right at those times is EXTREMELY hard. Yet if I don’t do it, she won’t calm down. And she keeps saying “Let’s go, say something, SAY SOMETHING, hurry up! Are you stupid? How come you don’t know what to say?” When she calms down it is like if I turned a switch, she smiles and cuddle me, say she is sorry and everything! And then we are good until she gets upset again. She is starting to realize and get tired of all of this, she keeps saying she needs to be single forever. Then she has this need to see me all the time. Breaking up: ---------------------------- I guess most people would have broken up already and maybe I should have done this in the early stages of the relationship but I guess I care too much. Maybe I think people can change but we actually don’t change. She even asked me early on, “if you break up with me, please wait until after my recital”! When she gets upset, she gets upset because I made her upset and she can’t concentrate on work/music. I’m not perfect and I could possibly be triggering her bad feelings unnecessarily. I understand that there are things I could and should change. Maybe unconsciously I treat them too much like I treat my sisters. But at the same time I don’t think I’m that bad. My ex wouldn’t react like that. Maybe we simply don’t have compatible personalities and we are trying to fit together things that won’t fit. Her criticism towards me, despite not being put in a nice way, still make me think and may be the real issue. It makes me analyse where I am in life, what I can do to be better, to be more successful. She is a very hard working person, and that makes me rethink my work ethic. At the same time, she makes me doubt myself. I thought I was patient and more resilient, now I’m not sure anymore. I guess I am in fact too ****ing sensitive. I have issues of my own that I have to deal with, but whatever brought me to this point, I’m the only responsible to carry me forward. I constantly think about what would it be if we break up, that I’d like to try to see what’s out there. I think of how relaxed I would be not having to walk on eggshells all the time trying to be her psychologist. We even broke up for a day, but I felt bad for her and I called her back the next day to see how she was doing. The other time, she called me. I feel bad for breaking up, I feel like a loser, that I failed by not being able to deal with this, not being able to fix it. I feel guilty because she suffered so much and it’s not her fault she has the issues she has. When she is in a good place, I think I can do this, until she gets upset again and all my convictions implode. I’m also afraid that it will take a long time to have this level of intimacy with someone else, that it will be hard to find another girlfriend again and that I have to hurry up because I’m getting older. And of course I still like her, but I’m not sure if it’s enough. Please, I would like hear your input on this. Thanks for reading.
losangelena Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Please, I would like hear your input on this. Thanks for reading. My input? Find the nearest exit and walk through it as quickly as you can. You don't deserve to be treated like that by someone who can't control their emotions. You're also not responsible for her feelings, you're not her psychotherapist and you cannot change/fix her. Bottom line, those are her responsibilities. Staying in this role is only keeping you both locked in an unhealthy dynamic. You leaving is not giving up or a sign of weakness. It's making a sane, adult decision to walk away from an abusive partner. IMO, you both need to talk to someone—separately—her for her anger issues, and you to figure out why you put up with this for so long. Sorry to sound harsh, but there is nothing good about this situation. 5
VeveCakes Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Sounds like Borderline or Bi Polar. Aside from that you need to leave this abuse. No one deserves this. Yelling at you to say something to calm her down? Ok then. Sorry you are going through this. 2
carhill Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 OP, try reading a book called "Stop walking on eggshells" and see what you think. If nothing else, it might help with understanding and managing future incidences along this behavioral spectrum.
mightycpa Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Assuming the recital is in late January, by all means, go to the recital, enjoy the show, and present her with flowers for her performance. Then give her the pink slip, just as she's asked. Usually, the question "WHY" comes up. Print this out and when she asks, just hand it to her: Because You are: stubbornselfishself-righteousshort temperedcontrolling You have: anger management issuesanxiety You: can't be upsetrantcan’t parallel parkcan't deal with my feelingswon't changeblame medo everything you can to hurt mesay you will kill herselftreat me like a dog You've been: shoutingcalling me namesfighting dirtyphysically hitting me and I'm done with all of it. Goodbye and good luck. Did I get all the important ones? 6
Miss Peach Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 I would leave just because it sounds like verbal abuse. One of the things I've learned about relationships if you need to be able to discuss issues or concerns and learn to compromise respectfully. That is how you keep a healthy relationship going. The stuff you describe sounds unhealthy and not something you want long term IME.
Author PocketBlues Posted January 21, 2016 Author Posted January 21, 2016 Thank you guys for the feedback so far. It's just hard to see someone that you care about suffering this much and simply walk away. But like you said, it's not fair on me and I think I should be a bit selfish here myself. I wish I could just sit down with her and talk about it, but it never works as I expect. Usually when I voice my needs she feels bad about herself, she feels as a bad person. Sometimes when she is calm after a fight she feels bad for treating me like this, she said she would stop calling me names, but that didn't happen. It's always my fault again when the next fight start because I didn't do enough to defuse it in the first place. I had read a bit about Borderline personality sometime ago but I just started taking a look at the book "Stop walking on eggshells" that @carhill suggested and it seems the signs are more clear now than before! I guess it will be a good read, for now and for the future. Thank you!
GorillaTheater Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 I would leave just because it sounds like verbal abuse. Not just verbal; it's apparently gotten physical as well. And she can't parallel park, fer crissakes! Dump the loon. There's plenty of sane women out there. 2
mrldii Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 Well, you asked OP, so here goes... ...aside from the very good observations made by others, your girlfriend appears to be a totally self-absorbed, spoiled-brat-of-a-princess who still hasn't gotten over the fact she learned in the 3rd grade that the immediate universe revolves around the Sun and not her. She may, very well, simply be young and immature and she may, very well, grow out of it once she gets out of the protections of being a student and actually has to work for a living...and she may learn how to play nicely with others. Until that time, it appears she's perfectly capable of being a bully and throwing tantrums to get her way...which apparently has worked on others - like her parents and you - in the past. I'd either do as one other suggested (dump her sorry a** backstage, immediately after her recital) or as most of the others have suggested - run to get away from her as quickly as possible. She's completely toxic. Best of luck to you, OP... 1
seekingpeaceinlove Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 Pocket, I used to be exactly life your girlfriend. I was about 25 when I met my first serious bf and it was a tumultous relationship mainly because of my anger issues. I was also abusive to him, calling him names, raging, blowing up at the smallest things and would make him feel as small as possible. At that time I felt that if he could stay with me at my worst and he was still with me when I pushed him to the limit of breaking down..that he still loved me. I felt that if he really loved me he should know not to push my buttons and that he only had himself to blame for my reactions. What a wrong and warped way of thinking.. it was so toxic...so abusive. He also broke up with me but we got back together quickly and the same conflicts arose. We broke up for the final time about a year later and it took probably another few years after that for me to work on my anger, confront my past and begin to heal. My ex breaking up with me was the catalyst that I needed to change. I am a completely different woman today. I would never treat anyone the way that I had treated him. However, it took years and a lot of hard work to change. I look back now and cringe and my past behavior. I'm sorry, Pocket, but you may need to really walk away from this one. If she recognized her issues and made a committment to working on them, there may be hope. Unfortunately, it seems like she is not ready to change and there is not a thing you can do but walk away for your own good..and maybe for hers as well. You need to love yourself first. If you valued and loved yourself you would not tolerate being abused. Yes, you are being abused. I think you know what you need to do. It just takes a little courage to do it. Good luck.
Author PocketBlues Posted January 22, 2016 Author Posted January 22, 2016 I used to be exactly life your girlfriend. Thank you for taking the time to reply. It's definitely helpful to hear from someone like you. One thing that makes me frustrated is when my girlfriend wants me to validate and comfort her (that happens all the time). I guess she wants me to say that everything will be alright and other comforting words, but I think I suck at that! I think I suck at that for two reasons: the first is really that I don't know what to say, I never really had to do it before in such a deep level, it all sound bad; the second is because I don't want to give her false promises. I used to to that in the beginning, saying that I'd be there for her and everything would be OK, that we would get through this together, but time passed and more and more fights happened and I'm not sure anymore, so I don't want to lie to her. Then she starts blaming me for not knowing what to say and then I block. I feel bad that she is seeking comfort and I can't give it to her. I wanted to make sure I'm not missing some boyfriend common sense here. So thank you for the replies so far.
Downtown Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 I had read a bit about Borderline personality sometime ago but I just started taking a look at the book "Stop walking on eggshells" that carhill suggested and it seems the signs are more clear now than before!Pocket, I agree with Carhill, Vevecakes, and you that you are describing red flags for BPD. Specifically, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the verbal and physical abuse, controlling behavior, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, threats of suicide, low empathy, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums. She even started physically hitting me.Physical abuse of one's partner is strongly associated with BPD. Indeed, intense and inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. If your GF has strong and persistent BPD traits, she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD. I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Carhill, Vevecakes, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Pocket.
Hoosfoos Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 I was with someone 5 years ago that sounds exactly like your current gf. The thing is, they all use the same playbook. Like you, I waited around to see if things would change. Guess what? The only thing that happened was that she got more rude, more disrespectful, and more violent. Anyway, some professional advice I got at the time was this: "She's a serial man abuser, she's going to continue to abuse alcohol, and she's going to be miserable." A year and a half ago she got married. Some "nice guy", like you or me, probably thought she was great at first and she eventually returned to her usual tricks. The marriage collapsed within a year. I'm not trying to hijack your thread here, but based on my past experience, I just wanted to say a few things: People don't change. Run, don't walk away. Don't look back. 1
Author PocketBlues Posted January 22, 2016 Author Posted January 22, 2016 You all have been very helpful. I read about the traits associated with BPD that Downtown mentioned and the section "is this book for you?" of the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and I'm mostly certain that my girlfriend exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level. I was going to list them here, but it would be copy and paste since she fits in many of them! Yesterday we argued on the phone again and she kept saying I never know what to do or to say to comfort her, so I told her “why don’t you do a list and give it to me then”. She was very sad so I went to see her tonight. She had the list waiting for me and that broke my heart. She makes me feel so guilty. Here is what is says: Don’t react. Stay quiet. Hug me. Say “I’m sorry”. Surprise me with food and show up at my place if you know I had a hard day. Never try to subdue my anger. Never tell me what to do, what you need, what you don’t like. I’m not in a place where I can function even myself. Let me call you names and finish ranting. Never tell me that I’m not fun, that I never have time, that I’m always mad, that I’m always annoyed. I know this and I hate it. Sometimes I just need to rant it out. Don’t tell me you are tired, that you run out of patience and that you want to break up. You should tell me you will be there for me no matter what I say because I feel so alone and terrible that I just don’t know what to do anymore. You should never give up on me or leave me because everyone has left me. You should tell me how much I mean to you, that I can do it, that everything is going to be alright and you’ll always be there for me no matter what. That you will never leave me because you love me. I feel trapped because I understand why she needs some of those stuff, but she is not willing to put work on her end. Also, I don’t want to say everything will be OK and that I will be there for her because I’m not sure anymore. I asked her if she would start seeing a therapist again, she told me she is too busy now and also she doesn’t have money. I’m thinking about talking to her parents to help her out. I’m been trying to break up, or take a break for a while, but I’m not being very successful. Right now we are broken up, but there’s a chance she will call me later, sad, asking me to come over. I’m gonna say no, she will get upset to the point I feel bad and then I will show up and have another nightmare of a night. I like her and care about her, but this can’t keep happening. I have to realize she won’t change and that I’m not happy overall.
carhill Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 Yeah, looking at the great detail of the opening post, I'd opine caretaker personality for the OP. Downtown might be able to expand upon that better than I. I've experienced that without healthy boundaries and it's pretty debilitating long-term if enmeshed with an unhealthy relationship or personality. 1
BlueIris Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 OP, this might be a helpful article about codependency, care-taking and caregiving. Codependency: Caretaking vs. Caregiving | Expressive Counseling You know you have to end this relationship. You can do it. Don't worry about her reaction. Her reactions are intolerable anyway. But you have to do it. Go NC if she gets nasty. 3
Fleur de cactus Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 SOrry you are in this situation. Some here are seeing a codependency and they may be right. You need to end this relationship, it is not working, it is not healthy, your gf has a serious mentally issue and you cannot fix her. The list she gave you is a true picture of her problem. You dont have the right to live around her! you cannot breath, you cannot get upset, don;t say anything to contract her behavior etc. Seriously you are not helping her. She needs professional help , she knows that, you know that. Please forget about seeing her change without professional help. The love she has for your is abusive, she wants you to encourage her in her negative behavior. This is not right. Think about your sister or your mother or any other friend who could have this kind of issue ? what would want for them? keep telling them that they are good? everything is ok, or you will do what is possible to get some professional help? Do you have friends yourself? what your friends say about this situation? Do you know how was her previous relationship? maybe her mother will tell you more about the issue. If you want to help her, break up with her. Maybe she will open her eyes and find the courage to seek help. Otherwise you are not helping her. Sometimes LOVE itself is not enough to live together. There other things we have to do.
marky00 Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) she is constantly on top of me when we are together Sorry ..... how is that a bad thing ? P.S. Love your post MightyCPA... left me in stitches laughing for real.... Edited January 23, 2016 by marky00
Author PocketBlues Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Sorry ..... how is that a bad thing ? I should have explained that better. I don't mean that sexually, I mean more like bugging me, being in my personal space doing annoying things. Things that may be cute in the beginning but that get annoying after 5min of it.
darkbloom Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 You all have been very helpful. I read about the traits associated with BPD that Downtown mentioned and the section "is this book for you?" of the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and I'm mostly certain that my girlfriend exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level. I was going to list them here, but it would be copy and paste since she fits in many of them! Yesterday we argued on the phone again and she kept saying I never know what to do or to say to comfort her, so I told her “why don’t you do a list and give it to me then”. She was very sad so I went to see her tonight. She had the list waiting for me and that broke my heart. She makes me feel so guilty. Here is what is says: Don’t react. Stay quiet. Hug me. Say “I’m sorry”. Surprise me with food and show up at my place if you know I had a hard day. Never try to subdue my anger. Never tell me what to do, what you need, what you don’t like. I’m not in a place where I can function even myself. Let me call you names and finish ranting. Never tell me that I’m not fun, that I never have time, that I’m always mad, that I’m always annoyed. I know this and I hate it. Sometimes I just need to rant it out. Don’t tell me you are tired, that you run out of patience and that you want to break up. You should tell me you will be there for me no matter what I say because I feel so alone and terrible that I just don’t know what to do anymore. You should never give up on me or leave me because everyone has left me. You should tell me how much I mean to you, that I can do it, that everything is going to be alright and you’ll always be there for me no matter what. That you will never leave me because you love me. I feel trapped because I understand why she needs some of those stuff, but she is not willing to put work on her end. Also, I don’t want to say everything will be OK and that I will be there for her because I’m not sure anymore. I asked her if she would start seeing a therapist again, she told me she is too busy now and also she doesn’t have money. I’m thinking about talking to her parents to help her out. I’m been trying to break up, or take a break for a while, but I’m not being very successful. Right now we are broken up, but there’s a chance she will call me later, sad, asking me to come over. I’m gonna say no, she will get upset to the point I feel bad and then I will show up and have another nightmare of a night. I like her and care about her, but this can’t keep happening. I have to realize she won’t change and that I’m not happy overall. Holy crazy! She basically wants to use you as an emotional punching bag and have NO consequences for her behavior. Unfortunately, even when you're angry, you still have to act like a decent human being and treat others with respect. A fact that she doesn't seem to grasp. Imagine for a second if you were the one upset and you sent her that list. Especially the whole let me call you names thing. That's called abuse. And you would more than likely be arrested for that. WHY IS IT ANY DIFFERENT FOR HER TO TREAT YOU THAT WAY? It's not. You should stay far away from this girl and her emotional abuse.
NoLeafClover Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 I'm not the type of person that can read a book and put that person in a certain category because the traits say so..I believe there are many cases where just traits don't always point to the correct problem as other emotional variables can't really be described with words...but honestly man....this is terrible. I can't even think of a reason you should forget what people on here say and make it work. She is just selfish. Sure one needs comfort but when do your feelings come into the picture? I know at 31 you might feel like you are running out of time, im almost 30 and single myself, but don't do this to yourself. You know you can't be with her for the long haul. Just have the break up talk. Be strong and pull the trigger. You will hate yourself but you have no choice. I wouldn't wait until she gets her finals or w.e it is done. Do it now because that is the right thing to do. Don't string things along for her sake. If someone felt this way about me, id want them to break up with me right away.
mightycpa Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 I’m been trying to break up, or take a break for a while, but I’m not being very successful.Well, do let us know when you actually decide to break up. That's really your problem. You won't pull the trigger. Now all you have to do is figure out why.
carhill Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 If a caretaker personality, fear. Fear of loss. Failure to care. A caretaker personality ties up a bunch of self-worth in the health of the object of care. Of course, we think of this as 'love'. It's the wool we pull over our own eyes. If we think the partner needs our care, our love, terminating it arbitrarily is like cutting off a body limb. Apt term. Pull the trigger. Once I started doing a lot of that, literally, meaning at the range, the propensity to feel like a caretaker lessened. The fear of failure mitigated. Health returned. The OP can apply as appropriate, or not, to their circumstance. IME, usually, failure to act is predicated upon some fear. The work is identifying it and processing it.
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