Michelle ma Belle Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 You don't know the half of it... You know what she said when I first confronted her about being on a dating site. She said she knew I would go back there, so she went there (during what she thought to be a break up, when I wasn't talking to her for a few days) and hoped I would talk to her there. So even when I delete the da*n profile she thinks I would be back there at some point. This girl was really damaged psychologically. There was no way to gain her trust. And because of that she did all kind of horrible things and relationship ended. And if you ask her, she would say she knew I would disappear and she is glad she didn't get rid of the profile. Self fulfilling prophecy. BINGO!!!! Good riddance.
Maggie4 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Once you decide to break up woth her, the details of how to do it doesn't matter. Maybe a part of you is not ready to break up with her, so you want to do it in such a way that she has a chance to right the wrong so that you can cancel the break up. The way I see it, too many people are perpetually on dating sites. There are people who have been on dating sites for over ten years. They go through dates, things don't work out, next. OLD becomes a way of life for them. There is the excitement of getting attention from strangers. If she is like that, she'll have a hard time quitting OLD.
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 The way I see it, too many people are perpetually on dating sites. There are people who have been on dating sites for over ten years. They go through dates, things don't work out, next. OLD becomes a way of life for them. There is the excitement of getting attention from strangers. If she is like that, she'll have a hard time quitting OLD. This was another reason. I wanted to see if she can live without it.
Popsicle Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 That is my point. If she isn't willing to do that, something that basic, what is she willing to do exactly? That shows me she is not going to put any effort other than wait for me to be nicer, more romantic, more this and that. That is not how you work things out I don't think. Have you told her what you want her to do differently/better? (aside from not being on a dating site)
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 Have you told her what you want her to do differently/better? (aside from not being on a dating site) Yes of course. Her answer was that either that I make everything a big problem or she doesn't like to be told what to do. If you told her something she is not doing right, you were a negative and mean person who is putting her down. It was impossible to improve the relationship without being called controlling (for telling her what she needs to change) or mean (for pointing out the mistake in her ways).
katiegrl Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Yes of course. Her answer was that either that I make everything a big problem or she doesn't like to be told what to do. If you told her something she is not doing right, you were a negative and mean person who is putting her down. It was impossible to improve the relationship without being called controlling (for telling her what she needs to change) or mean (for pointing out the mistake in her ways). Well how do you go about telling her? "You need to change xxxxxxxx, or I'm out." as opposed to "I am not happy about xxxxx. Can we work out a compromise that we are both comfortable with"? The former is controlling. The latter indicates a willingness to be flexible and ability to compromise. If you truly feel that she *must* change something or you're out, then for heaven's sake, just end it.
katiegrl Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Yes of course. Her answer was that either that I make everything a big problem or she doesn't like to be told what to do. If you told her something she is not doing right, you were a negative and mean person who is putting her down. It was impossible to improve the relationship without being called controlling (for telling her what she needs to change) or mean (for pointing out the mistake in her ways). JMO.....but your relationship sounds like a father/daughter RL (with the exception of sex) and she is rebelling against your attempts to dictate how she should behave. Her response that she does not like being told what to do is very telling and would indicate that she finds you demanding, and yes controlling ...again my opinion from what you've posted. Not defending her, she is behaving like a child....which does not bode well for a mature and healthy relationship. Edited January 17, 2016 by katiegrl
Popsicle Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Yes of course. Her answer was that either that I make everything a big problem or she doesn't like to be told what to do. If you told her something she is not doing right, you were a negative and mean person who is putting her down. It was impossible to improve the relationship without being called controlling (for telling her what she needs to change) or mean (for pointing out the mistake in her ways). I think you should tell us what the problems you have with her are (aside from her deactivated online profile), so we can get a clearer picture of what you need.
katiegrl Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I think you should tell us what the problems you have with her are (aside from her deactivated online profile), so we can get a clearer picture of what you need. Agree ...and also how you go about *telling* her she needs to change. No one likes being *told* what to do or that they must change... I didn't like it when my own dad told me what to do. Other than chores...lol And if any of my boyfriends "told" me I needed to change something about my behavior or myself .....because I wasn't doing it *right,* he would be shown the door. It's all in how you present these things to her. A little tact, understanding and empathy goes a long way. She may have had every intention of deleting her profile, but because you are demanding it, she's resisting.
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 Well how do you go about telling her? "You need to change xxxxxxxx, or I'm out." as opposed to "I am not happy about xxxxx. Can we work out a compromise that we are both comfortable with"? The former is controlling. The latter indicates a willingness to be flexible and ability to compromise. If you truly feel that she *must* change something or you're out, then for heaven's sake, just end it. It follows this cycle: Me: X bothers me and makes me uncomfortable [Expecting her to compromise or remove X] Her: It shouldn't. Don't feel that way. It's nothing... Me: But I feel the way I feel. If I could have felt differently, I would have. Don't tell me I shouldn't feel the way I feel. I expect you to care about how I feel and do something about it. Her: You are making everything a big deal. Me: Look, X situation needs to be addressed. I can't pretend like it is not there. Her: I don't want to talk about relationship all the time. Let's just talk and have fun. Me: X needs to change or I don't want to continue. Break Her: Can we talk ... [where she promises to do something about it] Next day/week nothing changes and I realize we resumed the normal talk without addressing the issue Me: Are you going to do something about X? Her: It is always the same with you. Just let it go. Me: If I could have, it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Her: I am done with that convo Me: Either X changes, or I am done Her: I don't want to be told what to do Longer Break Her: Can we talk ... [where she promises to do something about it] Next day/week nothing changes and I realize we resumed the normal talk without addressing the issue But this time she is less likely to do something she would have done the first time around and the relationship is weaker
katiegrl Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) You: >>I *expect* you to care about how I feel and do something about it<< >>X needs to change or I don't want to continue<< >>Are you going to do something about X?<< >>Either X changes or I am done<< Her: >>I don't want to be told what to do. -- Yup, pretty much what I suspected. She finds you demanding and controlling, clearly. Like I said, a little tact, understanding, flexibility, ability to address issues in a non-demanding and threatening manner ..... and willingness to compromise go a long way. Not throwing out demands and threats to end the relationship if she does not acquiesce to your demands. Just end this...you are a mis-match and this sounds almost toxic. You're too domineering for her.... and she's too strong-willed, and independent for you. She's carefree, light, breezy ... and you sound intense. Like I said, her intention may have been to delete, and she probably would have eventually. Right now it's only deactivated as, given the issues you are experiencing as a couple, she is not 100% sure things will work out. And also since you are demanding it, she is resisting. You both are just too different from each other to make this work in a healthy way. JMO Edited January 17, 2016 by katiegrl
katiegrl Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 OP I have a question. Clearly you're strong enough to be throwing out demands ...and threatening to leave if she does not acquiesce to those demands. But yet you're not strong enough to follow through and actually leave? What's that about? She is not gonna change..... so do you really have a choice? No you don't. You said "this needs to change or we're done." It hasn't changed.... so you are really left with no choice. You have to leave now. Because if you don't .... in her mind, your words will always mean jack shyt and she will lose respect for you as a result.. Next time, don't make threats unless you intend to follow through. Good luck with whatever happens though. 1
Popsicle Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Yes, just leave because it seems your only issue with her is her deactivated online profile (which I think is ridiculous). 2
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I think you should tell us what the problems you have with her are (aside from her deactivated online profile), so we can get a clearer picture of what you need. Two main (unresolved) issues resulting in more issues: 1) Online flirting with a dude 2) Periodic contact with ex [an established and discussed no-no] Issue 1: Online Flirting With A Dude Me: [Discover constant flirt attempts from a guy online] Me: Who is that guy? Her: Just a friend Me: That is pretty inappropriate when you are in a relationship, don't you think? Why don't you stop it or say something [enforce the boundary]? Her: Oh it is just a joke. That is how I talk sometimes. Me: But shouldn't 'I love you' or 'baby' type of things be reserved for your bf or lover. It is kinda weird and makes me uncomfortable. Joke or not, I think it is disrespectful to me and the relationship. Nothing changes. More of it happens. Arguments. And more arguments. Her: [This time she returns the flirt back, which I find super disrespectful] Me: Disgusting ... Her: I only did it to make you mad because I was angry with you. There is nothing between us, trust me. I am so sorry. That was wrong. It won't happen again. I promise. Me: Why don't you go and write something online then? Something like "I only flirted with you to make my bf jealous" or next time he does that say something like "My bf wouldn't appreciate that" Her: I don't want to be embarrassed. Me: But you had no problem embarrassing me? Her: I talk to him about you anyway. He knows about you. Me: And somehow he still does that? Why? You'd better either write something or remove that dude from your network. You can't have it both ways. Not cool. Her: No. I can't do that. He interned for my dad. Just a friend. I promise. I don't want to make things awkward if he comes back and works for my dad again. [This dude is not in the country, so I am not worried something is happening but the inappropriateness of the whole thing and possible EA] Some time later, same sh*t happens Me: [To save the relationship, I try to temporarily ignore it to see if she will stop him on her own, when I don't tell her what to do.] Nothing changes Issue 2: Periodic contact with ex Her: So I got this gift from this guy I dated before you Me: Who? Her: Just someone I dated briefly a few times, right before you Me: I thought you said your last relationship was a year ago. Her: He is not an ex. It was never a relationship. I had like 4 dates with him. Me: [i remind her when we first started I made it perfectly clear I don't date people who want to have contact with their exes] Her: I don't talk to him. Just sent him a "thank you" text. I didn't want to be rude. Some time later Her: He told me he loves me Me: I thought you weren't contacting him Her: He texted me. I didn't respond. Me: Okay, that is a bit creepy. Did you not tell him you are with someone else now? Her: Yes. I can't stop him from contacting me though. Me: Okay. But I don't want you to contact him. Her: Okay. I promise. After one of the fights Her: I called him because I was feeling really bad that you broke up with me We patch things up and she promises she won't have any contact with him Her: I want to be friends with him. Why do you have a problem with that? Me: I am not okay with you friends with an ex who is actively pursuing you and trying to ruin our relationship. Her: I don't feel that way about him. Me: Doesn't matter. It would make me uncomfortable. Her: You can't tell me who I can be friends with. Me: Fine. I am telling you I can't be in a relationship with someone who can do that. Her: Okay. I won't. Some time later. After another fight. Her: I picked up his call. Me: WTF Fast Forward Few more fights Her: You are so mean. You make me miss the guy I dated before you Me: Are you f*cking kidding me? Her: I am sorry that was wrong. I don't even know why I said that. It was immature. I don't feel any love for him. I just want you to be more sweet. Me: If you maybe care about my concerns and address them we can move on and have a better connection Her: [Promises she won't contact him] After a big argument Her: I was treated like gold right before I got involved with you and all you have done is to make me miss the guy before you who thankfully still wants me Me: [Thinking, wait how do you know he still wants you if you weren't in touch] Her: Thanks for freeing me. Now I WILL go back to dating and wind up with someone I am supposed to be with. Me: I check the dating site and she is there. I send her a WOW message. Her: Deactivates her account and tells me she wants to work things out Me: I tell her I want her to delete her account (just like I did a few months ago), not just deactivate it. Here we go. That is the backstory. Important factors: - She wanted an exclusive relationship - I have nothing (anything cheating related) for her to act that way - I did leave. She came back and asked for another chance - Because she hasn't done anything about Issue 1 and Issue 2 (other than just promising me and then most likely not following that promise), I wanted to see whether she can at least delete her dating account, as a token that she wants to do SOMETHING for this relationship. Not just see how it goes, which I don't have time for anymore
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 But yet you're not strong enough to follow through and actually leave? She is not gonna change..... so do you really have a choice? No you don't. You said "this needs to change or we're done." It hasn't changed.... so you are really left with no choice. You have to leave now. Because if you don't .... in her mind, your words will always mean jack shyt and she will lose respect for you as a result.. Next time, don't make threats unless you intend to follow through. I did leave. She asked for another chance, told me she wants to work things out, and promised me to change things. And I said if you want to work things out, I want a partner who is in it 100% (similar to what you suggested in an earlier post) and keeping a dating profile tells me she is not fully in this. So yea, this is a situation after me leaving and after she telling me she wants to work things out.
katiegrl Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) OP after reading your last post clarifying things further, this girl is fu*kin toxic. Instead of trying to control her behavior, which you will never be able to do anyway, you need to just LEAVE this insanity ... again....for good. She is her own person and she will happily behave in whatever manner that suits HER, no matter how detrimental it is to your or any relationship she may have in the future. She just doesn't give a shyt, sorry. No more threats to leave, JUST LEAVE. Why haven't you? What's the pull? I don't get it. Edited January 18, 2016 by katiegrl
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 OP after reading your last post clarifying things further, this girl is fu*kin toxic. Instead of trying to control her behavior, which you will never be able to do anyway, you need to just LEAVE this insanity ... again....for good. She is her own person and she will happily behave in whatever manner that suits HER, no matter how detrimental it is to your or any relationship she may have in the future. She just doesn't give a shyt, sorry. No more threats to leave, JUST LEAVE. Why haven't you? What's the pull? I don't get it. Boiling frog.
Maggie4 Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 One thing that shows the relationship is wrong is when you look at the person you've become when you are with her, and you see a lesser person than how you used to be. Take a look at the boiling frog. In the above exchange, you're nagging. I don't think it's your fault because I totally agree she is not in it 100%. You try but you can't pin her down. Bottom line is, it's her way or the highway. I can tell you that I might be like that with one guy, but with another guy I'm really in love with, it's a different set of rules, one with compromises, sensitivity, and understanding. Ask yourself do you like the person you've become when you are with her? Do you get upset, nag, say mean things, to the point where you don't recognize yourself? Those are signs this is toxic for you.
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 One thing that shows the relationship is wrong is when you look at the person you've become when you are with her, and you see a lesser person than how you used to be. Take a look at the boiling frog. In the above exchange, you're nagging. I don't think it's your fault because I totally agree she is not in it 100%. You try but you can't pin her down. Bottom line is, it's her way or the highway. I can tell you that I might be like that with one guy, but with another guy I'm really in love with, it's a different set of rules, one with compromises, sensitivity, and understanding. Ask yourself do you like the person you've become when you are with her? Do you get upset, nag, say mean things, to the point where you don't recognize yourself? Those are signs this is toxic for you. It is clear now but it wasn't clear before. While you are boiling, you believe all the crying, apologies, promises, 'I love you more than anything' declarations. So you try hard to make it work by trying to fix the actions don't match words problem. You get excuses, manipulation, lies, gaslighting from someone who claimed to care about loyalty, honesty, and committed relationship.... and only after a certain point you realize you have enough examples to know you have been played by someone who just is better at this dating game. Even then things don't make sense because you ask why would someone spend that much time with you, if they weren't seriously in it? You read dating articles, search for relationship forums, because love is new to you and you want to make sure you are absolutely positively sure you are being used, not loved. You try and try ... until you hit a point where you realize you are the boiling frog.
testmeasure Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) I have a different thought here. 1) Online flirting with a dude 2) Periodic contact with ex [an established and discussed no-no] 3) Not deleting the profile At the root of all of these things is the fear that she MIGHT do something that would end the relationship. Yet, I admit those things would irritate me too. Apparently she feels strongly about doing them, or it's just not possible for her to stop. So, if you force her to stop, that WILL end the relationship. Self fulfilling prophecy. You said it yourself. In my first 5 year relationship, something like this happened in the middle of it. Actually, in the very beginning of it, the gift thing happened also. She accepted flowers from some other guy. My immediate reaction was to point out that since she accepted flowers from another guy, I couldn't give her flowers again and have it mean the same thing. About half way through the 5 years, she went to a movie with a mutual guy friend of ours and specifically excluded me from going. Afterward, she even admitted that he was clearly flirting with her beforehand. Part of the context here is that she had a very hard time making "big decisions". It took her quite a while to decide to start the relationship with me. Big decisions terrified her. Procrastination was the main tool she used for dealing with that. It took her forever to choose what to study in college. So, I knew the idea that she would ever be able to make the decision to cheat on me was not likely. All of her family and friends saw nothing wrong with what she did. All of my family and friends thought it was wrong on principal. I broke up with her over it. She called me a week later, wanting to get back together. I agreed under 2 conditions. 1) We both went no-contact with the mutual friend. I wasn't too happy with him either at that point. Since she couldn't change her mind about it having been wrong, if I couldn't fix the problem in principle, maybe we could agree to get rid of the source. 2) If we continued the relationship, we would continue it as a serious full relationship, but with the realization that we probably wouldn't end up with each other for the rest of our lives. This worked perfectly and we went on to have the 2nd half of our 5 years. We were a perfect intellectual match, we agreed on politics and religion. There were a lot of things that were good about it. In fact the second half was probably better. Her personal habits and tastes were very different. Occasionally this caused some friction. Agreeing to keep it a serious relationship but take the view that we probably wouldn't end up together in the end took some of the pressure off the differences and allowed us to be more relaxed. How can this be applied this to your situation? First, I don't think you're drawing the line at quite the right place. The things you're describing would be irritating for sure. But I would draw the line at acting on them. Particularly 5 or 6 months in. Just realize that she may not take the relationship as seriously as you do. Trying to force her to do so apparently will create a self fulfilling prophecy and end the relationship. So, your other choice is to re-calibrate, take it a bit less seriously yourself and just relax. But be ready to draw a line if any of what she's doing actually goes somewhere. She came back to you. She didn't even start a relationship with this "ex", but she started one with you. She wants to go have fun, so go have fun while it lasts. Then if/when she acts on this and does something, be mentally ready to end it. . Edited January 18, 2016 by testmeasure
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 She came back to you. She didn't even start a relationship with this "ex", but she started one with you. That is true. So I know there is no desire to continue to date the ex. However, she did admit picking up his call during what she thought to be a break up. If that was the only info, I would have been fine. But her desire to remain friends with that person (and only stopping it when I demand it) tells me she either doesn't understand that this person is just there to destabilize our relationship or just doesn't care that he does. That is a problem. I have a different thought here. At the root of all of these things is the fear that she MIGHT do something that would end the relationship. Knowing her past and habits, I am not really worried about physical cheating. My concern was that she should have cared (but didn't) about my discomfort and keeping some form of a relationship alive with these people shouldn't have been (but it was) more important than her relationship with me, especially after we had a few arguments already. Selfish one-sided outlook. It is also a matter of respect and double standard. Just realize that she may not take the relationship as seriously as you do. Trying to force her to do so apparently will create a self fulfilling prophecy and end the relationship. Now maybe. But that is not how we started. When we first started talking, she was the one telling me she only gets into a relationship if it is serious and then she puts her 100%. She was the one telling me to get off the site, making a big deal that I may go back there. She is the type of person who would go crazy if you even look at someone during lunch (not that I did) but then feed me "I can control myself with someone who hits on me" line to be friends with guys, when her own dating site answers were "Yes, I would mind if my partner kept a profile during a relationship" and "Yes, it would bother me if my partner had a lot of opposite sex friends." So nobody was forcing her. I was trying to understand why her words didn't match her actions. So, your other choice is to re-calibrate, take it a bit less seriously yourself and just relax. But be ready to draw a line if any of what she's doing actually goes somewhere. She wants to go have fun, so go have fun while it lasts. Then if/when she acts on this and does something, be mentally ready to end it. That is another approach I guess. But still, recall that I didn't even ask anything about Issue 1 and Issue 2. Because I figured if she can't even commit enough to delete a dating profile she can create again, what kind of effort is she putting on this 'working this out'? So I feel that request was a good barometer about whether I was being played all along.
Author meanthingsisaid Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 You sound like Phoenician. Not sure if that is a dating term or a psychological name (google search didn't get me anywhere) but you asked for the other problems and I answered it.
Maggie4 Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 You read dating articles, search for relationship forums, because love is new to you and you want to make sure you are absolutely positively sure you are being used, not loved. I wouldn't necessarily conclude you are being played or used. It could be you are just incompatible in the sense that while another man might be comfortable with how she is, you are not. In a love relationship we learn a lot about ourselves, what we are, or are not, capable of. And we have to accept that. What are your astrological signs? I know some people don't believe that at all. I do, when I read some of the characterizations of compatibility.
Popsicle Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Not sure if that is a dating term or a psychological name (google search didn't get me anywhere) but you asked for the other problems and I answered it. He is a poster here.
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