Most Couples Today

[Robert Z]

Regardless, as Gunslinger said above, divorce rates have been falling for decades. So whatever modern couples are doing, it's an improvement.

 

 

No it hasn't.

http://krusekronicle.typepad.com/kruse_kronicle/images/07divorce.gif

http://www.stateofourunions.org/2011/images/fig-si-05.png

https://www.papermasters.com/images/divorce-rate.jpg

 

 

The divorce rate per person is dropping but not so much the divorce rate per marriage. So the reason the overall rate per person is dropping is fewer people are getting married.

[carhill]

Good point. The government statistics compare marriages and divorces. A closer examination of marriages versus family householders/single householders in the census would be instructive.

 

However, those stats don't really address the dynamic of 'friends first' as a relationship style and comparison.

[Robert Z]

Good point. The government statistics compare marriages and divorces. A closer examination of marriages versus family householders/single householders in the census would be instructive.

 

However, those stats don't really address the dynamic of 'friends first' as a relationship style and comparison.

 

I think someone made a good point earlier about being friends. When a man is interested in a woman, being labeled a friend can be pretty devastating. It takes a long time to know if someone is truly a friend. If we all waited that long to get involved, hardly anyone would ever get married.

 

Turns out, after 25 years I had no idea who I had married. You NEVER really know if you know someone.

 

My parents started planning their wedding after three weeks and got married after dating for six weeks. They were married over 50 years. My grandfather said he knew my father was THE ONE when my mother got home from her first date with my father.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Robert Z

[GunslingerRoland]

No it hasn't.

http://krusekronicle.typepad.com/kruse_kronicle/images/07divorce.gif

http://www.stateofourunions.org/2011/images/fig-si-05.png

https://www.papermasters.com/images/divorce-rate.jpg

 

 

The divorce rate per person is dropping but not so much the divorce rate per marriage. So the reason the overall rate per person is dropping is fewer people are getting married.

 

Interesting... it has still dropped slightly though, so its clearly not going up.

 

 

I believe there is also a much larger spread across class lines than there used to be. Where the poor either don't get married at all or have higher rates of divorce. Where the middle to upper classes are more likely to get married and stay together.

 

 

Regardless I know anecdotes aren't always better than statistics but I know what I see with my own eyes regarding divorce compared to 30 years ago and it seems to be dropping dramatically.

[carhill]

I think someone made a good point earlier about being friends. When a man is interested in a woman, being labeled a friend can be pretty devastating. It takes a long time to know if someone is truly a friend. If we all waited that long to get involved, hardly anyone would ever get married.

 

Turns out, after 25 years I had no idea who I had married. You NEVER really know if you know someone.

 

My parents started planning their wedding after three weeks and got married after dating for six weeks. They were married over 50 years. My grandfather said he knew my father was THE ONE when my mother got home from her first date with my father.

Makes sense as to how things went but I've had one nagging doubt for a long time and it was exactly why one would legally devote themselves to someone they hardly knew, compared to a long-lived and trusted friend, and with whom they mainly shared the overriding desire to copulate and produce little replicas? After all, that desire for sex is really the only reason people willfully suspend the usual process of building trust and intimacy over a long period of time. Otherwise, they would, over time, then marry their best friend and then have sex. Heh. Perhaps that's why marriage is a relatively modern construct.

[OldSoulBiz]

My husband and I weren't friends first. A strong physical connection is what attracted us to each other. He made it known that he wanted to be with me from day one, so I never viewed him as just a friend.

 

We actually don't have that much in common. We are from different kinds of families, had different upbringings, we are different races, we have different interests. I love the beach, he doesn't. We like different types of movies, different TV shows, etc.

 

The strong attraction is what brought us together, not friendship. With teenage hormones raging, we wanted each other, plain and simple. But during that crazy passionate time of lust and limerance, we got to know each other. I saw he was a good person and knew he would be a good husband and father. I fell in love with him. I felt safe with him. I could be myself, flaws and all, and he loved me anyway.

 

Now, 25 years and 3 kids later, we compromise so that we both get to do the things we like. He goes to the beach with me. I go to WWE matches with him. We both love football, so that's one thing we love doing together- going to football games.

 

Friendship isn't what brought us together, but I don't think that means a successful couple can't be friends first. Every couple has a story. Whether it started with friendship or passion, if both people are committed to being together, and there is mutual respect and acceptance, then I think there is a good chance for success.

 

This is great! This is why I say I'm confused as to why people look for "things in common" or "similar hobbies" in a partner (friend traits). Believe it or not, those things are NOT what makes a strong relationship, and Quiet Storm's post proves that!

[Robert Z]

Regardless I know anecdotes aren't always better than statistics but I know what I see with my own eyes regarding divorce compared to 30 years ago and it seems to be dropping dramatically.

 

 

Could be your social group, location and economy, age... a lot of things. In fact we have only seen a slight downtick in the divorce rate per marriage in the last 15 years.

 

I see a lot of very unhappy men, married or not. I knew one guy who was happily married but now his wife is dying. When I talk with men near my age I hear a lot! I will never forget this one guy who said he had no interest in staying married but why lose half your stuff?

 

We appeared to have most of Toronto Canada cheating according to the Ashley Madison receipts.

 

I also see lists. When a woman makes a list of requirements and starts checking it off for a potential mate, I don't think she wants a lover or a friend, she wants an employee. One woman here had gone for six pages about her relationship with a man that wasn't moving forward. She said he was perfect - money, job, house, hobbies, responsible, good father type, etc. In six pages she never once said she loved him!!! I suggested that this is why they aren't moving forward.

 

 

I don't want a lover to be a friend first. I want her to be my passion.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Robert Z

[Forevermore13]

I wan't to be friendly first so I know all sides of the individual.

My parents have been together for 32 years - no marriage in sight. The old way doesn't mean the correct way. The correct way to do things is the way that works best for both individuals.

 

Id take friendship first over anything else. I want to know what inspires him, what makes him happy, what he hates, the food he likes, how adventurous he is. From my experience, the best way to find that out is to be his friend.

 

 

If finding a friend in your partner is a priority, then what are other friends for? If the partner being a friend is the most important thing, then why do a lot of longer term relationships crumble after all of a sudden there are responsibilities to be had when now they share more together because they either moved in together or are a family (i.e. marriage)?

 

That would simply be because you aren't compatible. Things lasted longer years ago because if it didn't you were looked down upon, you were dirt. in 2016, we understand we have control of our lives in that manner, and don;t have to stick around if things aren't right. I'm not so sure 'old' relationships 'worked' because they 'worked at it' more so than they grinned and bared it for years until it just because comfortable.

[MissBee]

This person gets it. My issue is with people who go into a relationship with someone and say they are "together" before dealing with the bigger issues.

 

You do realize that this is not the same question as what you originally asked, right? We can only answer the question you asked and can't be blamed if you ask one question but in your mind have a different question.....

 

The friendship question is totally different from the jumping in head first before knowing the person question. In fact, if you were "friends first" you would have known them well enough and would have a more reasonable idea of if you'd be a good match or not.

 

Nothing is new under the sun and many of the things people do now re relationships, people did in the past as well. I think it's a matter of who you are and how you are, that determines how you look for relationships and what you prioritize. For me for example, I'm very particular about what I want in a boyfriend as a boyfriend to me is a potential husband. I date with a purpose, i.e. I will NOT become exclusive with a man I can't see future potential with. I don't get into relationships just for the sake of getting into one and while I've dated a lot casually, I get into actual relationships far less. OTOH, I know folks who they get a new bf/gf every few months, the minute they meet someone they're together and I'm always confused as to how they can find so many people they truly like, then I realize, them liking the person is rather superficial and doesn't take all that much into consideration, hence the reason they can break up and find someone new next week. This isn't about the past or present...it's about who people are and what they value. Some people put a lot of thought into relationships, some are particular, some aren't and some people feel like being in any kind of relationship is better than none so jump in with any available body. People in the past did this as well.

 

Also, I prioritize common values over common interests in a relationship. Whether we have the same hobbies or not is completely irrelevant. I mean, if you like action movies and I like thrillers, or you like biking and I like swimming....that doesn't matter, even with my good friends, we're not friends because we like each and all activities the other likes. My friends and I are friends because we share some common values and then our interests some might be similar but certainly not all. Those things are immaterial unless it is your entire lifestyle, then it may pose a problem. But common values, worldviews, what you believe love is, how you think about family, religion, politics all of that are make it or break it things for me as that will govern how we raise our kids and all kinds of choices we make everyday. But hobbies or interests, it's cool to have some shared ones of course, but some people confuse common interests with values and think that they can be substituted for each other. If we have completely divergent views on some fundamental things about the world, no matter how much we both like watching The Walking Dead or drinking whisky won't make up for it.

Edited January 15, 2016 by MissBee

[GunslingerRoland]

Could be your social group, location and economy, age... a lot of things. In fact we have only seen a slight downtick in the divorce rate per marriage in the last 15 years.

.

 

 

 

Again, like I said, its anecdotal, but this is same location, economy, age, just comparing my parents generation to mine 30 years later.

 

 

But regardless of whether its only gone down slightly the point im making is that once divorce became a real option it skyrocketed in the first couple of decades. People expected it to continue to skyrocket, and it never did.

 

 

So if you compare to 30 years ago and say marriages are more likely to end in divorce it isn't true. If you compare to the 1940s of course its true, no one got divorced then, but some of those same marriages end up getting divorced in the skyrocketing 30 years to follow.

[carhill]

Interesting read:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf

 

[Caution, gigantic 887 page .pdf document]

 

Perusing page 67 of 887 we find a marked, and expected spike in the marriage rate, most markedly around the end of WW2, up to over 15 per 1000. Interestingly, we also find a marked uptick in the divorce rate, to around 4 per 1000. That would put the spot rate at roughly 4 divorces for every lets say 16 marriages for a 25% divorce to marriage rate. By 1960, the marriage rate had settled to a bit less than 9 per 1000 and the divorce rate to a bit over 2 per 1000, so around 22% divorce to marriage rate, say 25% conservative, so about the same.

 

Then the sexual revolution began. There are stats for those periods in other CDC documents.

 

What I recall from video interviews with old time relatives and my parents was that a lot of stuff that goes on today went on back then, like affairs, promiscuity, casual sex, living together, etc, but it wasn't talked about openly like it is now. Also, birth control was limited and abortion was illegal in most places so the consequences of sex were more onerous, and religion was more pervasive and ingrained, hence people felt more social pressure to get married and stay married. That changed over time. If one wasn't having sex due to religious or birth control reasons, then people got to know each other without sex and being 'friends first' could be more common.

[67Chevelle]

 

I also see lists. When a woman makes a list of requirements and starts checking it off for a potential mate, I don't think she wants a lover or a friend, she wants an employee. One woman here had gone for six pages about her relationship with a man that wasn't moving forward. She said he was perfect - money, job, house, hobbies, responsible, good father type, etc. In six pages she never once said she loved him!!! I suggested that this is why they aren't moving forward.

 

Absolutely HATE HATE when women look for a guy that matches her "list" rather than just being open to letting it happen randomly. This needs an entire thread all its own.

[Woggle]

A strong friendship is vital to any relationship.