Kids say the darnedest things....

[TrustedthenBusted]

So my two sons are 11 and 13, and have discovered girls. While fun to watch, there is already lots of drama.

 

So the other night, Thing 2 comes home and tells Thing 1 that his "girlfriend" is currently getting Frozen Yogurt with another boy. Thing 1 throws an age-appropriate fit, and starts deleting her from his phone. I chuckle, and ask him what he thinks that will do to help the situation.

 

He looks right at me and his mother and says " Well what would YOU do if mom was cheating on you?"

 

Oh...damn...ouch.

 

Now, I'm not one to panic, and I usually use humor to diffuse any diffusible situations. I also feel like I am way past the point of saying hurtful things just to punish my already apologetic wife.

 

But what I blurted out was " I'd stick around until you were 18, and then go buy a Ferrari." He laughed a little, and that was one situation diffused.

 

Of course later on in bed, the question came. Was I serious? Is that my plan? Am I only staying for the kids etc...

 

And here is where I probably really screwed up. I answered " I don't know."

 

So we had what I call the "never say never" conversation for the bazillionth time. It's the one where I tell her that I have forgiven, that I don't ever question her whereabouts, or what she tells me, but that I will never again lull myself into believing that this can't happen again in the future. Further, I suggest that SHE never lull herself into feeling that way either.

 

Uncomfortable silence followed, and today we're back to normal.

 

So...anyone else find that they still have to have this conversation years and years later? I really don't see any flaws in my reasoning, but am not beyond being educated. I really don't mean to punish my wife with my taking a hard line on the trust issue. But at the same time, it feels disingenuous to tell her that the trust has been 100% restored when it hasn't, and never will be.

[salparadise]

I don't know the backstory, but gather that she cheated and you reconciled. That being the case I'd say you handled it pretty well. If it were me, I would probably try not to keep talking about it and relegate it to the past. If she presses then a simple, "I can forgive but I can't forget" would seem appropriate.

[TX-SC]

I think you did well.

[Buckeye2]

No offence but your son has a lot in common with chimps.

 

 

Kenyan sanctuary finds chimps form friendships based on trust | Daily Mail Online

[RightThere]

And here is where I probably really screwed up. I answered " I don't know."

 

Although I think you answered the question from your son very well, I assume what you meant was 95% "Just kidding" and 5% "I don't know."

 

Which I think is totally fair.

 

I'm in a new relationship after leaving my WW, and I can say I have an almost similar conversation with my girlfriend. It basically boils down to "I have no idea what can happen in the future and there are no guarantees. But I will do my best to affair proof this relationship as best I can."

 

I do feel like they are getting punished however (your WW and my girlfriend) for the past. You are essentially in a "new" relationship with your wife. And the last thing they want is to feel like the past is a constant weight around their neck. It's something to always keep in the back of your mind, but don't slide too far to the negative and allow that negative self-fulfilling prophesy to come to life.

[BetrayedH]

I think your "I don't know" response to her question wasn't accurate, nor was your response to your son. I think you do know what you'd do if Mom cheated, because it has already happened.

 

Perhaps a more honest response to your son might have been, "If she was truly remorseful and tried to make things right, I'd try hard to forgive. If she wasn't really remorseful, I'd kick her to the curb."

 

If your wife asked if you were serious about that response, you could say yes. However, she asked if you were serious about an off-handed statement about getting a Ferrari when your son turned 18. Of course, you know that's not what you'd do (unless that's your plan). Your response to your wife should have been, "No, it was just a spontaneous response. I have no plans to leave or buy a sports car."

 

The rest of your explanation seemed fine. You have no guarantees and neither does she. And you can't permanently forget. But that doesn't jive with you saying that you "don't know" if you're just staying until the kids are grown.

[bigman1]

I'm gonna have to say that I see your conversation as if you are still punishing your wife in a sense or you were being really honest about your plans to move on once they turned 18.

 

It sounds to me like you wanted to let her know that just like she could toss the relationship without warning, you could toss it the same way. Essentially, you were trying to make her feel marginalized like you felt at one point. Nothing does that more than saying, I'm not here for you but only the kids or I am not sure that I am here for you but definitely I'm here for the kids.

 

Had your goal been to talk about trust, then you would have made your points about trust because trust was a totally separate issue. You could have said, "I would stay, but I would never trust her the same." Then, your bedtime conversation would have been exclusively about trust. She would have asked you if you were ever going to trust her again instead of asking you whether you were only staying for the kids. You could trust her and still not want to remain married to her.

 

Glad you all seem to be healing, but your comment had a lot of vengeance type undertones to it. Alternatively, you do plan on ending it when the kids turn 18 or at least you have revealed that a big part of your reason to R was based on the kids being there and once they turn 18, you don't know what you are going to do. That has nothing to do with trust.

 

Not trying to crap on your R or bash your post, but that is how I see it.

[merrmeade]

Of course later on in bed, the question came. Was I serious? Is that my plan? Am I only staying for the kids etc...

 

And here is where I probably really screwed up. I answered " I don't know."

 

So we had what I call the "never say never" conversation for the bazillionth time. It's the one where I tell her that I have forgiven, that I don't ever question her whereabouts, or what she tells me, but that I will never again lull myself into believing that this can't happen again in the future. Further, I suggest that SHE never lull herself into feeling that way either.

 

Uncomfortable silence followed, and today we're back to normal.

 

So...anyone else find that they still have to have this conversation years and years later? I really don't see any flaws in my reasoning, but am not beyond being educated. I really don't mean to punish my wife with my taking a hard line on the trust issue. But at the same time, it feels disingenuous to tell her that the trust has been 100% restored when it hasn't, and never will be.

I think you answered honestly for how you felt at that moment. "I don't know" is an answer of ambiguity. From what I've read here, those of us who've stayed with our spouses roil around in a hell of ambiguity a lot or a little for some time. Maybe it'll never leave us alone. It certainly means we never really "know" that we're safe, that what we're doing is right, that our spouses are all in. You yourself have expressed it other ways other times - often eloquently and with as much feeling and conviction as you could give it. Ambiguous commitment is maybe the best we can do. "I don't know" is just shorthand.

[MuddyFootprints]

What stands out for me, other than the stab guised as humour, is the concept that 18 is some magic number when kids stop being kids and stop requiring parental teamwork and support.

 

For us, reconciliation included our family. We recommitted understanding that we were in for it long-term. We are still 'raising' our kids and the youngest turns 18 in a couple of weeks. She's five years younger than our middle child. We will always be raising our kids...and grandkids, together.

 

Keep doing the work, which means not letting comments fly without appropriate follow-up discussion. Things might seem back to normal, but they aren't. You two need to have a good conversation.

[Tayla]

Without a background check on Op, I think humility was front and center to state "I don't know". But hey if you are all knowing then I can see how this gents reply doesn't gel.

 

It was neither snarky or ill meant. It was honest.

 

When a bone is fractured and it heals, there are going to be corrective changes. And yes, some times we even have to remind ourselves that the fracture changed the way we handle tasks.

I don't think the Op is digging up matters so much as handling the reality of this new task towards adjustments.

Op, humor is a coping mechanism. Keep it alive.

 

I have zero tolerance for betrayal so pardon if I do marvel at those who can mend that fence. Some folks truly do seem to have that tenacity to persevere.

[MuddyFootprints]

"I don't know." is an appropriate response and one worthy of discussion.

 

I'd wait 'til you turn 18, leave, and buy a hot sports car (paraphrasing)...as a response to your child about infidelity during a family discussion?

 

The next morning, everything seems to be okay?

 

Nobody is really talking about it. They both seem afraid to address it head-on.

 

That's not healing. It's not conducive to reconciliation.

Edited January 15, 2016 by MuddyFootprints

[JS84]

I think you handled the whole thing fine. You defused the situation with your son and were honest with your wife.

[understand50]

TrustedthenBusted,

 

I think your story goes to the two parts of Reconciliation. The first part, remorse from the WS, but second part, of forgiving and not holding it against them 24/7. Of course you can never forget, but at some point you need to let them know that if you both break apart, it will be for a new thing, not the affair in the past. At some point you do need to move on and let her know, baring bad behavior from you both, you see yourself staying. A affair is not a "get out of jail card" forever, at some point both must recommit to the marriage. Myself, I would had said, or let her know later, that my forgiveness was total, and unless something else comes along, by ether of us, I am committed to her.

 

This is why reconciliation is hard work on both sides. You loved her enough to give her the second chance, at some point if she is doing the hard work, she needs to be rewarded, and reminded that you love her.

 

I would tell her, that you plan in staying for the second great Grandchild to grow up.

 

Just my 2 cents........

[JohnAdams]

So my two sons are 11 and 13, and have discovered girls. While fun to watch, there is already lots of drama.

 

So the other night, Thing 2 comes home and tells Thing 1 that his "girlfriend" is currently getting Frozen Yogurt with another boy. Thing 1 throws an age-appropriate fit, and starts deleting her from his phone. I chuckle, and ask him what he thinks that will do to help the situation.

 

He looks right at me and his mother and says " Well what would YOU do if mom was cheating on you?"

 

Oh...damn...ouch.

 

Now, I'm not one to panic, and I usually use humor to diffuse any diffusible situations. I also feel like I am way past the point of saying hurtful things just to punish my already apologetic wife.

 

But what I blurted out was " I'd stick around until you were 18, and then go buy a Ferrari." He laughed a little, and that was one situation diffused.

 

Of course later on in bed, the question came. Was I serious? Is that my plan? Am I only staying for the kids etc...

 

And here is where I probably really screwed up. I answered " I don't know."

 

So we had what I call the "never say never" conversation for the bazillionth time. It's the one where I tell her that I have forgiven, that I don't ever question her whereabouts, or what she tells me, but that I will never again lull myself into believing that this can't happen again in the future. Further, I suggest that SHE never lull herself into feeling that way either.

 

Uncomfortable silence followed, and today we're back to normal.

 

So...anyone else find that they still have to have this conversation years and years later? I really don't see any flaws in my reasoning, but am not beyond being educated. I really don't mean to punish my wife with my taking a hard line on the trust issue. But at the same time, it feels disingenuous to tell her that the trust has been 100% restored when it hasn't, and never will be.

 

 

I do not see your answer as a punishment to your wife, but a true reflection that you still hurt. Your son's question to you was a trigger. You used humor to diffuse the question. Your answer to your wife reflected your continued insecurity with your marriage and was perhaps an unconscious way of letting your wife know you still do not feel secure. I know I felt insecure for years and I think my wife had thoughts that I may leave after the kids turned 18. Over the years, we moved two more times and each time we bought a new house I considered the divorce implications.

 

 

We actually had a similar conversation last night. We both knew divorce was on the table for years. The trust had not been completely restored. While I do not think you ever fully recover from this type of betrayal, you do eventually fully trust again and throw the divorce options out the window. We are both fully committed to our marriage, trust each other and more in love than ever. It has taken us years to get to this point. When I read the stories on here, people often expect quick results, things to return to normal in a fairly short amount of time. Healing takes years.

[sandylee1]

You did fine. Your son caught you off guard..but I think BHs response was good.... but it's easier when you've had time to think about it.

 

It must have been quite a trigger for you.

 

BTW ... The chimp comment was uncalled for by whoever said it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I will add to johns comment.

Every year at the anniversary of my betrayal... John would go into deep depression. Every year I would say do you want me to leave. It wasn't a threat... I would have left had he said yes. I did not want to leave... But if that was what he needed... I would have left.

 

For the past several years... Those words do you want me to leave.. Have not been spoken. We have finally reached a place where neither of us doubts that the other one will stay...

That fear of divorce lingers a long time... For both people...

The betrayed fears the wayward might do it again

The wayward fears the betrayed can't live with it.

 

I honestly can say divorce is off the table.... And we have grown comfortable in our trusting each other.

 

Infidelity is still there and it always will be... I wish I could take it away.. But the comfort of trusting him and loving him with my whole being has returned. I no longer fear that he will someday walk.

 

Life is good and we are so blessed. Healing takes love and time and patience and commitment and Remorse and forgiveness. Reconciliation is hard... But it has been worth it.

[Buckeye2]

 

BTW ... The chimp comment was uncalled for by whoever said it.

 

If you follow the link it's about a study which showed how fundamental trust is. His son was upset that he couldn't trust his girl friend.

 

 

The study showed that trust is a big deal even in animals.

 

 

"Jan Engelmann, one of the scientists behind the study, said: ' Human friendships do not represent an anomaly in the animal kingdom.

 

 

'Other animals, such as chimpanzees, form close and long-term emotional bonds with select individuals.

 

 

'These animal friendships show important parallels with close relationships in humans.

 

 

'One shared characteristic is the tendency to selectively trust friends in costly situations.'"

 

 

Marriage is a costly situation. I was not saying that his kids were chimps.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Buckeye2

[merrmeade]

Without a background check on Op, I think humility was front and center to state "I don't know". But hey if you are all knowing then I can see how this gents reply doesn't gel.

 

It was neither snarky or ill meant. It was honest.

 

When a bone is fractured and it heals, there are going to be corrective changes. And yes, some times we even have to remind ourselves that the fracture changed the way we handle tasks.

I don't think the Op is digging up matters so much as handling the reality of this new task towards adjustments.

Op, humor is a coping mechanism. Keep it alive.

 

I have zero tolerance for betrayal so pardon if I do marvel at those who can mend that fence. Some folks truly do seem to have that tenacity to persevere.

Lovely. Absolutely lovely. This will give me warm fuzzies all day.

[oldshirt]

I/we have the luxury of evaluating this from the safety of a computer screen and have time for thorough, dispassionate contemplation, none of which you had in the moment.

 

My kids are 11 y/o boy and STB 14 y/o girl. The message I try to relay to them is to not allow others to mistreat them and to get away from those that will do them harm and to defend themselves definitively if they are unable to get away.

 

That concept does not have a "stay-for-the-kids" exemption in it.

 

I will not be teaching, demonstrating or even implying that people should stay with those that mistreat or harm them for any reason. My presumption is that they both and their prospective partners always have the ways and means to support themselves and never "need" to remain with an unfaithful or abusive partner (and I consider continued and serial infidelity as abuse)

 

That concept does not require exclusion of reconciliation. If the WS is sincerely remorseful and doing all the heavy lifting required to R, it is ok to display evaluating the greater long term good.

 

If my kids ever ask me that question, I will see it as a teaching moment. I hope my answer at that time will be, "if she cheated and wasn't sorry and wasn't willing to fix the damage and make sure it would never happen again, we would work out a way to both take care of you from two different homes and we would divorce."

 

I would never want my kids to feel responsible for their parents enduring an unhealthy situation, nor do I want them to remain in an abusive situation for ANY reason.

[Popsicle]

You didn't screw up, you were being honest, which is way better than lying.

 

Either she'll decide that she, too, will stay out of duty (the likely outcome) or she'll decide that she doesn't want this and wants to divorce and find someone that can truly love her.

 

As far as what you did to your kids, I think it's terrible to teach kids to stay out of duty. This isn't the 1900's. Your kid had it right!

[Popsicle]

Uncomfortable silence followed, and today we're back to normal.

 

Well, isn't that nice. Phew, that was close. Hopefully for both your sake everything can continue on as normal...

[oldshirt]

I think you handled the whole thing fine. You defused the situation with your son and were honest with your wife.

 

I disagree. I do not think this was a "situation" that needed to be "defused."

 

This was an important teaching moment about the realities if life.

 

When kids are at this age, it's important to teach them not to accept unacceptable behavior.

 

My kids were to ask my wife what she would do if I cheated on her or abused her or mistreated her, I would hope and expect her response to be that she would leave if I was not sincerely remorseful and not working hard to repair the damage and ensure that it never happens again.

 

It was the OP's responsibility to teach his kids about how to deal with mistreatment and betrayal appropriately. Not to make his WW feel better.

 

I appreciate the fact we all have the luxury of hindsight that he did not have in the moment, but the information here the boy was seeking was how to deal with the betrayal by someone he cared about.

 

Saying the way to deal with it is to endure mistreatment and betrayal until a child's 18th bday and then drive away in a sports car is inappropriate and ineffective and relays a bad message.

 

Not to rub salt in the OP's wounds but I think his response to his wife was a cop out and ineffective as well.

 

The message she came away with is that he has no real future plan or criteria for their future.

 

She was asking if he was just staying for the kids and was going to leave when they reached 18.

 

The answer to that question is either yes or no.

 

By answering "I don't know." IMHO generates a dangerous level of insecurity.

 

"I don't know" is an appropriate answer in the days following dday and people truly haven't formulated a plan yet.

 

But once the decision to reconcile has been made, then clearcut objectives and boundaries need to spelled out explicitly.

 

It's fair game to let a WS know under what situations you will walk out the door.

 

It's even ok to inform them you want to stay until the kids are 18 then you're out if that is the case. They can then decide if they will agree to that or not.

 

But to enter into a reconciliation and then a year later imply through other mechanisms that they will bolt at 18 and then when asked if they were serious to answer "I don't know" is IMHO unfair and potentially dangerous.

 

IMHO his wife is in her right to start looking into exit strategies and preparing herself to be left when the kids turn 18.

 

No matter how you slice it, that is not going to help the reconciliation process.

[BetrayedH]

I disagree. I do not think this was a "situation" that needed to be "defused."

 

This was an important teaching moment about the realities if life.

 

When kids are at this age, it's important to teach them not to accept unacceptable behavior.

 

My kids were to ask my wife what she would do if I cheated on her or abused her or mistreated her, I would hope and expect her response to be that she would leave if I was not sincerely remorseful and not working hard to repair the damage and ensure that it never happens again.

 

It was the OP's responsibility to teach his kids about how to deal with mistreatment and betrayal appropriately. Not to make his WW feel better.

 

I appreciate the fact we all have the luxury of hindsight that he did not have in the moment, but the information here the boy was seeking was how to deal with the betrayal by someone he cared about.

 

Saying the way to deal with it is to endure mistreatment and betrayal until a child's 18th bday and then drive away in a sports car is inappropriate and ineffective and relays a bad message.

 

Not to rub salt in the OP's wounds but I think his response to his wife was a cop out and ineffective as well.

 

The message she came away with is that he has no real future plan or criteria for their future.

 

She was asking if he was just staying for the kids and was going to leave when they reached 18.

 

The answer to that question is either yes or no.

 

By answering "I don't know." IMHO generates a dangerous level of insecurity.

 

"I don't know" is an appropriate answer in the days following dday and people truly haven't formulated a plan yet.

 

But once the decision to reconcile has been made, then clearcut objectives and boundaries need to spelled out explicitly.

 

It's fair game to let a WS know under what situations you will walk out the door.

 

It's even ok to inform them you want to stay until the kids are 18 then you're out if that is the case. They can then decide if they will agree to that or not.

 

But to enter into a reconciliation and then a year later imply through other mechanisms that they will bolt at 18 and then when asked if they were serious to answer "I don't know" is IMHO unfair and potentially dangerous.

 

IMHO his wife is in her right to start looking into exit strategies and preparing herself to be left when the kids turn 18.

 

No matter how you slice it, that is not going to help the reconciliation process.

 

Agreed. And I would reinforce that we have the opportunity now to dissect this with the benefit of hindsight. And I think that's what the OP was requesting. To some extent, I think it's "ok" that the OP responded the way that he did when only provided an instant. But after some reflection, it might benefit the OP to take another stab at both conversations. I think it would be good to take advantage of that teachable moment with his son and I think it would be good to make a clarification with his wife that there's no such plan to depart in a Ferrari when the kids turn 18.

[dreamingoftigers]

Uhm. The part I notice is the young man saying his crush is a cheater and "cheated" on him because she got frozen yogurt with another boy.

 

I'd be more concerned about him having jealousy/ control issues about his crush going out with easily a male friend for frozen yogurt at 13.

 

That seems like total overkill.

 

I regular hung out with male friends into my early 20s. There were no boundary issues or "secret friendships" or "dates" that came of it. Nor was it because I was "friend-zoning" them. We were friends. Start to finish.

 

Frozen yogurt isn't some illicit affair!

[understand50]

Agreed. And I would reinforce that we have the opportunity now to dissect this with the benefit of hindsight. And I think that's what the OP was requesting. To some extent, I think it's "ok" that the OP responded the way that he did when only provided an instant. But after some reflection, it might benefit the OP to take another stab at both conversations. I think it would be good to take advantage of that teachable moment with his son and I think it would be good to make a clarification with his wife that there's no such plan to depart in a Ferrari when the kids turn 18.

 

Again, reconciliation and marriage in general requires commitment. Once, time and some healing has pasted, then a idea that both are in it for the long term must be made. Does not mean that there will not be issues, Triggers, but they are just things to be handled.

 

Once you give them a second chance, your part is to forgive, and not punish them. They must have a safe place as well to live in the marriage. They also need to look forward to happier times. There must be a future, or why stay married? I wonder, how many BS, really tried to reconcile, but drove their spouses away, by anger? I get it, you are in pain, you are angry, but is that how you want to live? I guess a another rule in deciding to reconcile is to look really deep and ask yourself, can I really forgive? As you will always remember, and it will always be painful, can you live with this? If you cannot, I suggest divorce is a better option.

 

Now I am not saying forget. You cannot in any case, but keeping it to yourselves, not bring it up when it is not germane to the conversation, and lastly, letting them know, that if you both go your separate ways, it will be for a new thing. I think triggers go both ways, pain for the BS, but also, if they truly are remorseful, pain by the WS for what they have done. Both need to be dealt with by love and understanding.

 

This is why reconciliation is hard, and is a two way street, and both need to work on it.

 

When I forgave my G/F, wife, her ONS, it was total. Did not mean she had a pass to do it again, but for that one time, I forgave her. The same for her overspending. Does not mean I do not keep an eye on her and whats she is spending, but I do not rub her nose in it. If we break up it will be for something, she or I, are doing now to damage the relationship.

 

Trustedthenbusted,

 

Myself, I would go back and hug my wife and let her know I was here and with her and see a good loving future. Wish you luck.

 

My 2 cents.......