Appealing to eccentric artistic/intellectual girls in online dating

[PolarCrash]

So for about the past 2 weeks, I've been attempting to construct an OKC profile that's geared towards meeting girls for casual sex. I did that by taking some the advice from other posters on here (adding a few non-explicit blurbs about not looking to settle down and just looking to have some fun) and answering the OKC Match questions in as pro-casual sex of a manner as possible.

 

Where I live (the Greater New York City area), most of the girls who are openly, unabashedly seeking casual sex tend to be the eccentric, artistic and intellectual hipster types; artists, musicians, girls studying literature and theatre, etc.

 

So I've been trying to construct a profile that appeals to this type of subculture of girls.

 

Then I realized (I don't know why it took me so long to remember this) that I actually did have 2 brief flings with these kinds of girls back when I was in college. One was a girl who played in a prestigious music school's jazz orchestra (and was really big into absinthe and orgies), and the other was a gallery curator and occasional painter who was into "ethical non-monogamy" (I was her #2 guy, while her primary boyfriend had 2 other girls he was sleeping with).

 

One of those girls had told me that what attracted her to me was how "normal" and "well rounded" I was compared to her eccentric, hipster guy-friends; I've always been fairly straight-laced in comparison. Sure, I CAN appreciate high art, music and literature and such, but it's far from being a lifestyle for me. These girls and their social circles, on the other hand, live, eat and breath this stuff.

 

I figured that maybe these types of girls just wanted to hook up with a "normal" guy and wanted to save having a relationship with guys more in-tune with their interests and lifestyle.

 

So I tried to create a "normal guy's" profile, but have been messaging these girls in a manner that indicates that while I don't have an exceedingly refined artistic or literary background as them, that I'm interested and willing to learn. Messages like...

 

"I'm not too familiar with Vonnegut. What can you recommend for the casual reader?"

 

"I just looked up Magritte on Google Images; his paintings are mesmerizing. Can you recommend any other other painters that are like him?"

 

"My local bookstore actually has a copy of Montherlante's 'Chaos and Night'; wondering if it makes for easy-reading. Should I buy it?"

 

I sent out messages to about 100 of these types of girls, got responses from a little over a dozen of them, got a date with 2 and actually ended up having sex with 1 at the end of the date; halfway through, she had unabashedly started asking questions about my sexual history, invited me to ask about her's, confessed that she was casually sleeping with another guy and was looking for a second guy just for when he was away. She actually invited me back to her place afterwards, we slept together and we are seeing each other again.

 

So while I am pleased I was able to procure (so far) one casual hookup on OKC, I do wish I was achieving a higher response rate and convincing more of these girls to meet up (my success ratio so far has be ~1%).

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever been friends with or in relationships with or casually hooked up with these types of girls and could share their experiences or advice on what exactly appeals to them in a guy.

Edited January 14, 2016 by PolarCrash

[planb1973]

Just be YOU!

 

My GF is a director at our city's prestigious art college, she has a masters in art and lives and breaths the art world.

 

Me, I'm just a carpenter who doesn't know the first thing about or fit in with the art community.

 

She loves me simply because I am genuine, treat her well and according to her I'm simply awesome. I seem to remember when I met her online that my opener was something like "I don't know the first thing about art, but if I grew my hair out I could be your Rob Ross."

 

Be careful what you wish for. Dating the artsy type is no game for boys!

[PolarCrash]

Just be YOU!

 

My GF is a director at our city's prestigious art college, she has a masters in art and lives and breaths the art world.

 

Me, I'm just a carpenter who doesn't know the first thing about or fit in with the art community.

 

She loves me simply because I am genuine, treat her well and according to her I'm simply awesome. I seem to remember when I met her online that my opener was something like "I don't know the first thing about art, but if I grew my hair out I could be your Rob Ross."

 

Be careful what you wish for. Dating the artsy type is no game for boys!

 

Tell me about it; that's why I'm looking primarily looking for casual, non-committed sex with them. I don't think I could actually be in a serious long term relationship with these kinds of girls; like I said, the first one I ever hooked up with liked going to orgies and the last 2 actually had other boyfriends.

[SmartDude]

Tell me about it; that's why I'm looking primarily looking for casual, non-committed sex with them. I don't think I could actually be in a serious long term relationship with these kinds of girls; like I said, the first one I ever hooked up with liked going to orgies and the last 2 actually had other boyfriends.

 

Haha, your playin with fire.

Thats cool cause im doing the same right now though.

These types of women will steal your heart when you least expect it, watch yourself.

 

I seek out the same type of woman. Its definintly not for boys who get their hearts crushed easily

[mike_89]

So I tried to create a "normal guy's" profile, but have been messaging these girls in a manner that indicates that while I don't have an exceedingly refined artistic or literary background as them, that I'm interested and willing to learn.

This is not the way. Nobody finds a suck up attractive.

 

Be as crazy as they are, have a nonsensical kind of humour and don't care about what they think of it, be honest about having that "weird" hobby, have a nice chat about philosophy and how deep you think about reality and what it all means (not through messaging obviously but on a date). Honestly, I think you can only really pull this off if you are a bit crazy and weird and philosophical, because that's the type of guy these girls seem to be attracted to in general.

[TheArtist]

If you're just looking for sex, why does it matter if the girl is arty and intellectual? Unless there's something I'm missing with ladies like that... hmm...

 

Did you try Tinder?

[planb1973]

Tell me about it; that's why I'm looking primarily looking for casual, non-committed sex with them. I don't think I could actually be in a serious long term relationship with these kinds of girls; like I said, the first one I ever hooked up with liked going to orgies and the last 2 actually had other boyfriends.

 

I think Mike_89 has it right. If you are only looking for non-committed then you have to be as crazy and eccentric as they are. Keep in mind that just because a woman is into orgies and having other boyfriends does not mean that they are not secretly hoping for someone to fall in love with and share a life with. These girls march to their own beat and tend to do things just for the experience of doing it.

 

When I first got together with my GF she had way too many stories about orgies, lesbian encounters, and had a box of sex toys that kind of scared me (me coming from a very conservative upbringing, I was the alter-boy boy-scout, with only a handful of sexual partners at 40 years old.) I was curious about this type of woman, being so far from anyone I had been with. I remember our second date she let me know she was not wearing panties and challenged me to get her off while having dinner in a family restaurant. Third date we had sex in her car in the middle of downtown while people were walking by. I think I was as much of a challenge for her as she was for me. She wanted to break me of my conservative ways.

 

But then the inevitable happened. She fell in love with me. So she dumped me and ran, broke my heart and I didn't hear from her for a year. At which point I had given up on my conservative ways and had sex with anyone and everyone. I think I had been with over 15 women during that time. Ironically she grew out of her wild sexual ways and stayed single.

 

Almost exactly a year to the day after she left me she called randomly. She had actually spent the last year realizing that what she really wanted all along was a man to commit to. She went through her extensive list of possible suitors and I was her top pick. So she went for it and we have been going strong for 6 months now.

 

She is by far the most challenging woman I have been with, but in a good way. I never back down, I have both feet firmly planted on this earth, and am very stable. This I believe is how I got her, and I believe I am as big a challenge to her as she is to me. So the excitement is there, which we both need, but with a level of commitment. As she keeps reminding me firmly "I chose you, and am not letting you off the hook easily."

[losangelena]

So while I am pleased I was able to procure (so far) one casual hookup on OKC, I do wish I was achieving a higher response rate and convincing more of these girls to meet up (my success ratio so far has be ~1%).

 

You want to meet and hook up with more than one new casual sex partner every two weeks?

[ses]

You want to meet and hook up with more than one new casual sex partner every two weeks?

 

Craiglist/Tinder are made for NSA hookups. Why go through the hassle of a dating app—it seems like too much effort. If you're planning on having multiple partners please use condoms. It should be common sense, both for your health and for your partner's, but apparently there's been an increase in STDs due to dating apps.

[PolarCrash]

Haha, your playin with fire.

Thats cool cause im doing the same right now though.

These types of women will steal your heart when you least expect it, watch yourself.

 

I seek out the same type of woman. Its definintly not for boys who get their hearts crushed easily

 

I've made that mistake before; I kinda fell hard and quick for the first artsy hipster type I hooked up with (the music school girl), but her lifestyle made me feel insecure. I told her I wanted her to lay off hard drugs (on top of absinthe, she also occasionally did cocaine), to stop going to or vies and to just be with me. She then accused me of trying to "stifle" her and dumped me after that.

 

I'm pretty determined not to repeat that mistake again. That's why I'm trying to hook up with more girls; so I can avoid growing too attached to one.

[PolarCrash]

If you're just looking for sex, why does it matter if the girl is arty and intellectual? Unless there's something I'm missing with ladies like that... hmm...

 

The reason is because where I live, the type of girls who are into casual sex (at least openly) ARE the artistic/intellectual type; when I click "Browse Matches" and select "Sort by Match %", there's barely any "normal" girls who appear at the top.

[PolarCrash]

You want to meet and hook up with more than one new casual sex partner every two weeks?

 

While that would be nice, I acknowledge that that is unrealistic. It's just that I've burned through my top 100+ Matches and want to find a better strategy for messaging and meeting the NEXT 100 (and others after that); so I don't botch my first impression and sabotage my chances with the girls who'd be into this type of relationship in my vicinity.

[hasaquestion]

OP, I think you take what people are interested in way too literally. Most people aren't having sex with or dating other people from their exact field of study.

This is like going up to a Greek girl and saying "boy, I sure do love red-figure pottery! *wink* *wink*"

[losangelena]

OP, I think you take what people are interested in way too literally. Most people aren't having sex with or dating other people from their exact field of study.

This is like going up to a Greek girl and saying "boy, I sure do love red-figure pottery! *wink* *wink*"

 

HA! I literally laughed out loud.

[losangelena]

While that would be nice, I acknowledge that that is unrealistic. It's just that I've burned through my top 100+ Matches and want to find a better strategy for messaging and meeting the NEXT 100 (and others after that); so I don't botch my first impression and sabotage my chances with the girls who'd be into this type of relationship in my vicinity.

 

I would say so.

 

I dunno. It sounds like you're making this way too difficult for yourself. I know you're going by the assumption that these artsy-fartsy girls are your target demo, but here you are, trying to appeal to them (and probably sounding a bit disingenuous in the process), only to be passed over anyway. I think you're bumping up against the reality that not all women who are into casual will have sex with any guy who comes along and happens to say the right thing.

 

I doubt most hook-up relationships are found that way. I think either people go where the other casual hook-up people go (that is, to a hook-up site), or, though the process of going on more traditional dates, stumble upon someone who's willing to go a more casual route (that how my FWB situation happened).

 

No offense, but your method sounds rather contrived, never mind that thus far is hasn't brought you much success. It sounds like you think that by getting things *just right* you'll unlock some sort of sexual smorgasbord, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Amelie1980]

You know, in the time you have taken to write all these posts and profiles, you could have hung out where these arty girls are, met them in real life and scored.

 

Maybe you're not having any luck as you want to be pretentious and are trying to be, but you lack the means to rise to that level.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Amelie1980

[MissBee]

Isn't it too much work to have to craft a persona to appeal to these women? Wouldn't that mean you're not naturally their type? And if you aren't....why go through the hassle?

 

I'm sure there are other types (or even some of these same women) who would be attracted to who you are as a person. Also, that "type" is only a type in a general sense but being intellectual or hipster doesn't mean they all have the same interests/tastes/desires in guys and as individuals (which they are) they may like all various types of guys. I think you're better off simply being yourself.

 

For me anyway, I can't see how one could possibly be convincing if you essentially need a script to pretend to be a certain way. If they are smart they will realize you are faking the funk. So it's best to just be real and if they dig it they dig it and if not, someone else will. Other types of women want casual sex, not just these "types" you've listed, trust me. The thing most any woman hates though is a dude who is a pretender.

[PolarCrash]

I think Mike_89 has it right. If you are only looking for non-committed then you have to be as crazy and eccentric as they are. Keep in mind that just because a woman is into orgies and having other boyfriends does not mean that they are not secretly hoping for someone to fall in love with and share a life with. These girls march to their own beat and tend to do things just for the experience of doing it.

 

When I first got together with my GF she had way too many stories about orgies, lesbian encounters, and had a box of sex toys that kind of scared me (me coming from a very conservative upbringing, I was the alter-boy boy-scout, with only a handful of sexual partners at 40 years old.) I was curious about this type of woman, being so far from anyone I had been with. I remember our second date she let me know she was not wearing panties and challenged me to get her off while having dinner in a family restaurant. Third date we had sex in her car in the middle of downtown while people were walking by. I think I was as much of a challenge for her as she was for me. She wanted to break me of my conservative ways.

 

But then the inevitable happened. She fell in love with me. So she dumped me and ran, broke my heart and I didn't hear from her for a year. At which point I had given up on my conservative ways and had sex with anyone and everyone. I think I had been with over 15 women during that time. Ironically she grew out of her wild sexual ways and stayed single.

 

Almost exactly a year to the day after she left me she called randomly. She had actually spent the last year realizing that what she really wanted all along was a man to commit to. She went through her extensive list of possible suitors and I was her top pick. So she went for it and we have been going strong for 6 months now.

 

She is by far the most challenging woman I have been with, but in a good way. I never back down, I have both feet firmly planted on this earth, and am very stable. This I believe is how I got her, and I believe I am as big a challenge to her as she is to me. So the excitement is there, which we both need, but with a level of commitment. As she keeps reminding me firmly "I chose you, and am not letting you off the hook easily."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you describe, it sounds like you were looking for someone to settle down with (or at least have a "traditional" relationship) when you first met this woman.

 

I'm at the complete opposite stage in my life. I'm just coming out of my longest relationship ever (5 years) and am just looking to hook up. When I met my previous girlfriends, I was either in college or about to graduate and still struggling to make it on my own at the time.

 

I'm now at a stage in my life where I've achieved a degree of independence, financial stability and work-life balance that I feel is perfect for casual hooking up; I'm fairly certain that I don't want to be monogamous for a long while.

[PolarCrash]

Craiglist/Tinder are made for NSA hookups. Why go through the hassle of a dating app—it seems like too much effort. If you're planning on having multiple partners please use condoms. It should be common sense, both for your health and for your partner's, but apparently there's been an increase in STDs due to dating apps.

 

Constructing an attractive Tinder profile has proven to be more challenging than I thought; Tinder links to your Facebook profile (which I've barely touched in a long while) and many of my pics involve me and my most recent ex (I didn't want to hurt her by unfriending her or deleting them).

 

I've tried to create a fresh, separate Facebook profile that's specifically just for linking to Tinder, but as another poster said on another thread, getting girls to meet up on Tinder is exceedingly difficult unless you're in the top echelon of guys in terms of looks (since Tinder is all about pictures and leaves little room for personal info/bios, etc).

 

And the vast majority of Craigslist "NSA hookups" are prostitutes (or cops pretending to be prostitutes). I really don't want to get beaten up by some pimp or walk into a sting and end up on the sex offenders list.

[PolarCrash]

OP, I think you take what people are interested in way too literally. Most people aren't having sex with or dating other people from their exact field of study.

This is like going up to a Greek girl and saying "boy, I sure do love red-figure pottery! *wink* *wink*"

 

What else is there to talk about, though? How else do you first-message a girl on online dating WITHOUT addressing her interests and trying to find a way to relate to them?

[PolarCrash]

I would say so.

 

I dunno. It sounds like you're making this way too difficult for yourself. I know you're going by the assumption that these artsy-fartsy girls are your target demo, but here you are, trying to appeal to them (and probably sounding a bit disingenuous in the process), only to be passed over anyway. I think you're bumping up against the reality that not all women who are into casual will have sex with any guy who comes along and happens to say the right thing.

 

I doubt most hook-up relationships are found that way. I think either people go where the other casual hook-up people go (that is, to a hook-up site), or, though the process of going on more traditional dates, stumble upon someone who's willing to go a more casual route (that how my FWB situation happened).

 

No offense, but your method sounds rather contrived, never mind that thus far is hasn't brought you much success. It sounds like you think that by getting things *just right* you'll unlock some sort of sexual smorgasbord, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

 

Isn't it too much work to have to craft a persona to appeal to these women? Wouldn't that mean you're not naturally their type? And if you aren't....why go through the hassle?

 

I'm sure there are other types (or even some of these same women) who would be attracted to who you are as a person. Also, that "type" is only a type in a general sense but being intellectual or hipster doesn't mean they all have the same interests/tastes/desires in guys and as individuals (which they are) they may like all various types of guys. I think you're better off simply being yourself.

 

For me anyway, I can't see how one could possibly be convincing if you essentially need a script to pretend to be a certain way. If they are smart they will realize you are faking the funk. So it's best to just be real and if they dig it they dig it and if not, someone else will. Other types of women want casual sex, not just these "types" you've listed, trust me. The thing most any woman hates though is a dude who is a pretender.

 

The thing is, I actually would not mind expanding my "cultural base" (I guess you would call it) a bit.

 

Sometimes I do wish I knew a little more about modern art, avant garde theatre, indie music, literature, etc; it's finding the time and knowing how/where to start that's the challenge.

 

I'll go to an independent gallery or live jazz show from time to time. Ask me to name a contemporary artist or jazz musician though and I'm clueless, but these girls' world is something I can see myself dipping my toes into; just not taking the full plunge like others have suggested.

 

Like I said, my profile is a "normal", honest guy's profile. I make no pretensions about having any extensive knowledge or background in these girl's fields of study, work or hobbies; it's only in my messages to them where I address them as an honest but curious "pleb" (I guess you would say).

 

And like I said, what other way is there to address a girl in online dating besides identifying one of her interests and trying to relate to it?

[losangelena]

And like I said, what other way is there to address a girl in online dating besides identifying one of her interests and trying to relate to it?

 

I think you missed my point. I doubt it matters WHAT you do/what you say/how you say it, your expectations are still too high for OLD. Even though I think it sounds utterly contrived, what you're doing IS working on some level, just not at the rate at which you want.

 

I'd say two new casual sex partners a month is actually a pretty high number; what would you be happy with, two a week?

 

Why don't you try diversifying your portfolio? Go to one of these jazz club and chat up a girl there.

[PolarCrash]

I would say so.

 

I dunno. It sounds like you're making this way too difficult for yourself. I know you're going by the assumption that these artsy-fartsy girls are your target demo, but here you are, trying to appeal to them (and probably sounding a bit disingenuous in the process), only to be passed over anyway. I think you're bumping up against the reality that not all women who are into casual will have sex with any guy who comes along and happens to say the right thing.

 

True, but it's rarely as easy as going up to a girl and saying "You're hot; wanna bang?"

 

It CAN be that, but NOT ONLY that. Casual sex covers a wide spectrum of different types of sexual encounters and relationships; one night stands, friends with benefits, relationships where the 2 people still go on dates and spend quality time together but are free to see other people or invite them to join, etc; it's pretty much the non-commitment aspect that's common.

 

And like I said on my other thread, many of these girls actually have blurbs on their profiles that say something along the lines of, "Just because I'm looking for casual sex doesn't mean I'm giving it up to anyone who sends a shirtless selfie and a dickpic. If you can't hold an intelligent conversation, it's not happening."

 

Even for casual sex, there still has to be some basic emotional and intellectual connection for a lot of girls before there can even be a hint of sexual attraction.

 

As for the hook-up sites, those absolutely are scams; just look at the Ashley Madison debacle, where most of the female profiles were fakes made by the company to lure men. Or spend a few minutes browsing BlackhatSEO (a forum where people trade tips on unscrupulous online business practices); there are actually computer programs that can scour Facebook for pictures of girls, populate them into mass-produced dummy profiles and fill these types of sites simply to get men to either pay for a subscription, or more commonly, get them to click on links in their messages to other websites so the owners can capitalize on ad revenue.

[losangelena]

True, but it's rarely as easy as going up to a girl and saying "You're hot; wanna bang?"

 

Even for casual sex, there still has to be some basic emotional and intellectual connection for a lot of girls before there can even be a hint of sexual attraction.

 

I know that, jesus. You keep saying this like I don't understand. I'm a woman, I know how we work.

 

What I keep saying is that I think you're finding that, no matter which way you slice it, finding someone to bang or date or what have you, isn't easy. Connections isn't easy. It doesn't matter how well you craft your profile, you're not going to get women to fall into bed with you—unless you want to risk a scam or an STD.

[SunnyWeather]

 

So I tried to create a "normal guy's" profile, but have been messaging these girls in a manner that indicates that while I don't have an exceedingly refined artistic or literary background as them, that I'm interested and willing to learn. Messages like...

 

"I'm not too familiar with Vonnegut. What can you recommend for the casual reader?"

 

"I just looked up Magritte on Google Images; his paintings are mesmerizing. Can you recommend any other other painters that are like him?"

 

"My local bookstore actually has a copy of Montherlante's 'Chaos and Night'; wondering if it makes for easy-reading. Should I buy it?"

 

.

 

whenever I get messages like these I delete delete delete. why? because I don't like an introduction qualified by me having to perform a task. I'm not doing online dating to 'work' for someone who I not only do not know, but who comes off as trying too hard and/or is totally clueless and needy.

 

step up your game and make it a pleasurable experience and not one that entails me having to do heavy lifting.