dobielover Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I've been on both sides of the coin with this, and with enough time having passed, I can see that we just held on too long to an incompatible relationship that was somewhat evident early on... probably held on due to being content, but not really satisfied.
BC1980 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I think that romantic love is transient. We do not control loving or not loving someone. It might be useful to realize that the idea of getting and staying married because we like or love someone is a relatively new idea in our culture. I don't feel that it's realistic to expect any relationship to last forever. We also need to realize that we live longer, so to expect a person to remain in love or completely faithful in a decades long relationship or marriage is unrealistic.
preraph Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Some people can't handle the domestic side of relationships, the boring, chore-ridden day in and day out. I am one of those people. I do love forever, but I don't live together forever or even hardly at all! I didn't marry or have kids. I was never going to take on a role that required me to commit to a life of household chores and took away my freedoms. So I guess I'm more like some guys that way. I'd rather handle the drudgery in my own way on my own time and not ever have to nag someone to help me with it or, on the flip side, feel like I'm the slacker because they're meticulous. I've never even put myself in that situation because I know the first time I had to ask a man to do his part would be the last day in our relationship. At the point I become their mother, I am no longer hot for them. It's that simple. So it's not for everyone. On the other hand, I wouldn't have minded a big "roughing it" pioneering challenge back in "olden days" when survival was an adventure. And I've taken care of myself my whole life, so I can't be written off as useless. I just like my romance pure and more ethereal than most people could sustain on a daily level.
xxoo Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 OP, the obvious to me is that you didn't lose feelings, so not everyone is like that. You're not like that. I'm not like that, either. I fell in love once, 25 years ago, and I haven't lost feelings. Neither has he. Characteristics to look for: Attachment that steadily gets stronger in the early months (not insta-attachment based on projection and fantasy that inevitably plummets when you really get to know each other) Consistency in interest over time and conflict (no hot/cold) Successful conflict resolution (no avoidance, cold shoulder, etc) Strong sexual connection Have FUN together, be each other's port in the storm, and favorite place to be If he doesn't demonstrate all of the above, just move on. You're settling with him.
BC1980 Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 It's SO HARD for me to sever relationships--especially when I deeply care about a person. I really loved my most recent ex, very much, and the end of our relationship has hurt more than anything else I've experienced. I knew there were real troubles in our relationship, but I just couldn't bring myself to end it. And not just because I loved him so much, not just because I loved his family so much. It was also because I had no way of knowing whether the problems I experienced with him would truly be greater than problems I might experience with anyone else. What good is ending a relationship if getting into another relationship is just exchanging one set and kind of problems for another kind? That's why I have such difficulty understanding how easy it is for some people to just "lose feelings" and then walk away. If they can lose feelings for one person, borrowing abuse or cheating or other serious relationship infractions, then how can they trust they won't lose feelings for someone else, down the line? I guess I just don't see relationships as expendable. Intellectually I get it--nothing lasts, yada yada--but each relationship is unique while at the same time, relationship problems by and large are the same across the board. So I generally feel I'd rather just work on the one that I have. The problem was always that the guys I was with didn't see it the same way, and bailed. It hurts like death to feel so expendable, especially when you felt--and trusted--that the love was very much there on both sides. Maybe the trust issues I struggle with now, being single and thinking apprehensively of ever being in a relationship again, is that I fear I can't trust MYSELF, to recognize that someone doesn't love me ENOUGH to hold our relationship dear and work on it rather than let it go. Plus, it's not like any of these guys even tried to be friends with me after we broke up. They were just...done. They never wanted anything more to do with me in any aspect. My most recent ex lives right down the road from me--literally about 0.5 miles--and, nothing. It's terrifying, the prospect of ever going through this hurt again. I think the problem is that we don't understand why or how we loose feelings. I think that someone losing feelings is precisely the reason that it becomes so easy to walk away and never look back. It deeply saddens me that this is the case, but I see no other explanation. Just last week, I found out that a couple I have known for over a decade got divorced. They were married almost 30 years and seemed so solid and in love. I was so surprised. Just totally shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be at this point. I know they were deeply in love at one point, so what happened? He apparently stopped loving her and is now dating someone else.
Author Zapbasket Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I think that romantic love is transient. We do not control loving or not loving someone. It might be useful to realize that the idea of getting and staying married because we like or love someone is a relatively new idea in our culture. I don't feel that it's realistic to expect any relationship to last forever. We also need to realize that we live longer, so to expect a person to remain in love or completely faithful in a decades long relationship or marriage is unrealistic. This thinking makes me sad. If it's unrealistic to think that people could remain romantic partners for life, then how do you (meaning, universal "you," not necessarily YOU, BC1980) explain the people who DO get and stay married to the same person "'til death do they part"? I DO agree that it's unrealistic to expect that a relationship will remain the same from its inception to the end of life. I think people can change without it necessarily requiring that they change relationship partners. That's why negotiation, communication, mutual respect, integrity, etc. are so important in a relationship. I can see falling in and out of love with a long-term partner over the years, and the partners drawing close at times and growing apart at times, and I don't believe that staying together is purely by chance amidst the non-simultaneous ebb and flow of each person's feelings and needs. It's choice, integrity, the interest in seeing things through and staying true to commitments that keeps two people together for many years and life's many stages. I'm tired and so not able to be as articulate as I'd like but...I just can't accept that a life-long partnership isn't something that's realistic to aspire to. I've seen people do it, so I know it can be done. It's just...HOW?
Author Zapbasket Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 Some people can't handle the domestic side of relationships, the boring, chore-ridden day in and day out. I am one of those people. I do love forever, but I don't live together forever or even hardly at all! I didn't marry or have kids. I was never going to take on a role that required me to commit to a life of household chores and took away my freedoms. So I guess I'm more like some guys that way. I'd rather handle the drudgery in my own way on my own time and not ever have to nag someone to help me with it or, on the flip side, feel like I'm the slacker because they're meticulous. I've never even put myself in that situation because I know the first time I had to ask a man to do his part would be the last day in our relationship. At the point I become their mother, I am no longer hot for them. It's that simple. So it's not for everyone. On the other hand, I wouldn't have minded a big "roughing it" pioneering challenge back in "olden days" when survival was an adventure. And I've taken care of myself my whole life, so I can't be written off as useless. I just like my romance pure and more ethereal than most people could sustain on a daily level. That is so awesome and inspiring that you know exactly who you are and what you want in terms of relationships. If only all of us could be so honest. Sometimes I wonder if I really want to be tied to someone...but then I realize that what I want is to be tied to someone as imaginative and adventurous while simultaneously as caring and loyal as I am. I do want to share those things with someone, and some of the daily drudgeries I accept as part of that. So long as I can always be able to take time for myself. I always want and need "a room of my own." That I do know. But at the same time I don't want to be alone. I want to be able to pursue my solitudes WITHIN the context of a loving, passionate relationship, and I know I am happy to set my partner free to pursue his solitudes, as well. It's just, how do I find that combination of traits: imaginativeness, adventurousness, independent-mindedness, on the one hand; loyalty, emotional depth, passion for intimacy and connection, on the other? I've not yet met a man with this combination of traits. Women, yes; men, not at all.
Author Zapbasket Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 OP, the obvious to me is that you didn't lose feelings, so not everyone is like that. You're not like that. I'm not like that, either. I fell in love once, 25 years ago, and I haven't lost feelings. Neither has he. Characteristics to look for: Attachment that steadily gets stronger in the early months (not insta-attachment based on projection and fantasy that inevitably plummets when you really get to know each other) Consistency in interest over time and conflict (no hot/cold) Successful conflict resolution (no avoidance, cold shoulder, etc) Strong sexual connection Have FUN together, be each other's port in the storm, and favorite place to be If he doesn't demonstrate all of the above, just move on. You're settling with him. Thanks, xxoo. This is really helpful. And it's true: once I have ever truly LOVED a person, my love never has gone away. I don't love someone UNTIL I know them; I love them BECAUSE I know them, flaws and all, and when I can see the flaws and still say I love them, then to me that is when I know it's real love. And that kind of love has never gone away, even when the object of my love has treated me poorly. Question: how do you size up these traits amidst the person's inevitable fallibility? For instance, sometimes in conflict, people's less mature sides take over, and they stop playing fair. It may take a bit for them to catch themselves, and it may take you pointing out to them that they're being unreasonable. And sometimes people just go through withdrawn or lazy or taking-for-granted periods and being with them during these periods can be frustrating. How do you determine that OVERALL, the person has those traits you mention? One of the things that hurt so badly with my most recent ex was that he would show that he was aware his behavior was unproductive and infantile...but then after the apologies and discussions he'd end up going right back to those ways. It was maddening because I SAW that he knew how to behave better, and saw the mature man behind the sullen boy. That's what kept me with him even when his behavior made me so unhappy. I loved him so much and loved him even for his "split personality"--the loving, thoughtful guy who in an instant could become the irritable, contemptuous, sullen, "push-everyone-away" boy.
Author Zapbasket Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I think the problem is that we don't understand why or how we loose feelings. I think that someone losing feelings is precisely the reason that it becomes so easy to walk away and never look back. But: easy for whom? It's not easy for me; in fact it's difficult to impossible. I don't believe it could be easy for you, either. It deeply saddens me that this is the case, but I see no other explanation. Just last week, I found out that a couple I have known for over a decade got divorced. They were married almost 30 years and seemed so solid and in love. I was so surprised. Just totally shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be at this point. I know they were deeply in love at one point, so what happened? He apparently stopped loving her and is now dating someone else. But how do you know he really stopped loving her? Maybe he just got scared of his mortality and ran off looking for a way to feel young again. What better way to do that than to take up with someone new?
Author Zapbasket Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 I just ran a little experiment. I looked at a picture of my 2007 ex, just stared at it for a minute, and let whatever feelings were there just be there. And as soon as my face was staring into his, I smiled. Immediately what washed over me were all the good feelings I had when I was around him. This in spite of the fact that the way he ended the relationship, and how he spoke to me at the end, was terribly cruel. I looked at him and still felt love. My ex from 2009, I looked at a photo of him and while I had this flash memory of drinking lattes on our deck and talking for hours about all kinds of topics and then sparring in the backyard (he was a black-belt in karate and our "game" was me trying to take him down and him always winning unless I could get at his stomach to tickle it), I simultaneously felt, "Ugh." The reason? As I realized about a year or so after that relationship ended, I never really loved him. I thought I did, or convinced myself I did, but the truth was that I didn't. There was no love, either, when I looked at his picture, even while I was having good memories of him. And I thought back through some friendships that ended because the "friends" betrayed me, and I still love them, too--even while I wouldn't seek to rekindle a friendship with any of them. So, no, I just don't understand how you can lose feelings if you really ever loved someone. Lose the desire to be with them, maybe? Maybe I can understand that: the problems in the relationship got to be too much or went on too long; the person's life felt confined because they want to branch out into a new direction, etc. But saying, "I lost feelings," I just think the person isn't being honest with themselves about something. I don't know. All I know is that if there is no possibility that I can have a relationship where someone loves me fully and deeply and those feelings aren't likely to just...die, then I think I'd rather be single and not have dreadful heartbreak every few years.
BC1980 Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 This thinking makes me sad. If it's unrealistic to think that people could remain romantic partners for life, then how do you (meaning, universal "you," not necessarily YOU, BC1980) explain the people who DO get and stay married to the same person "'til death do they part"? I DO agree that it's unrealistic to expect that a relationship will remain the same from its inception to the end of life. I think people can change without it necessarily requiring that they change relationship partners. That's why negotiation, communication, mutual respect, integrity, etc. are so important in a relationship. I can see falling in and out of love with a long-term partner over the years, and the partners drawing close at times and growing apart at times, and I don't believe that staying together is purely by chance amidst the non-simultaneous ebb and flow of each person's feelings and needs. It's choice, integrity, the interest in seeing things through and staying true to commitments that keeps two people together for many years and life's many stages. I'm tired and so not able to be as articulate as I'd like but...I just can't accept that a life-long partnership isn't something that's realistic to aspire to. I've seen people do it, so I know it can be done. It's just...HOW? It makes me sad too. I wish I could come to a different conclusion, but the evidence seems to suggest otherwise. I think a lot of it is luck, chance. People who have been together for decades, I think it's a lot of good luck and things falling into place. I don't think it's based on something we actually control to a great deal. But yeah, it makes me sad too.
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