Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Okay. I am supposed to go to a concert with a girl tonight. It seemed like she invited me because coffee would have been too awkward and maybe she couldn't let me down. But she hardly knew anything about me, and we ended up talking pretty consistently back-and-forth on Facebook for 3 hours last night. Very long conversation. We are both rebooting our lives and getting over our pasts, and trying to become familiar with our own psychological burdens are growing out of them. This was the main topic of our discussion, and I was supportive in an honest and helpful way because I do feel like we vibe well and can relate to each other. Then the topic shifted to music, she showed me her playlists, and we talked a bit about that. She kept talking about music, and I felt like I was wearing out from the conversation and said it was nice talking to her, I look forward to seeing her, and goodnight. She said "Fully agreed!" and wished me a good night as well. I texted her a half hour ago for more details of the thing tonight, and hopefully now that we've talked she is more comfortable and responds more quickly. I don't want to be aggressive with her. It's not my style (yet at least) and the contact we've had so far has been the best feeling I've had in years. But I also don't want the only topic of our connection to be as psychological as it was last night. Or rather, I want to make sure I express interest without it seeing like I'm only trying to get something out of her (that is, too quickly), and before the dynamic is entrenched in something more platonic (if it continues developing).
Wewon Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 If a woman is going to be receptive to you, reject you, put you in the friendzone or try to play match-maker with her 1-eyed 250lb cousin Bertha is completely out of your hands. A lot of women will give you step-by-step instructions on what they like, what they want, what they will respond to and what will turn them off, you can follow these instructions and things will still go sideways. When you ask those women what happened, they will look at you and simply say, "Chemistry" and that will end the discussion. All that you can do, as a man, is be a person that you're proud of and can respect. Some women will like it, some will hate it, but don't expect women to give you any useful direction in these matters. 2
carhill Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 If this is a two-thing and not a group thing, enjoy the concert and be clear in your interactions with her that you're not hanging back as a buddy. Flirt, be physical as appropriate to venue and express your interest in her as a dating partner, presuming you feel that way. Accept the results. Clear sexual or romantic interest is the tool to avoid what is euphemistically known as the friendzone. Sure, it might mean you'll get a rude dismissal and never see her again. That's OK. There are billions out there just as valuable. Humans. Ladies. Enjoy them. 1
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 Thanks all. We will see. I texted her an hour ago for where to meet up and she hasn't responded. Which is a slight bummer because I have a dinner scheduled at 6:00 that I need to cancel if her plan is to meet when the doors for the concert open. This stuff is confusing! Especially since girls often have the sort of personality and self-focus deficits that I have, which makes them awkward communicators!
smackie9 Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Dude, be a gentleman and CALL her. Texting is for teenagers. 1
carhill Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Tip: Plan B is going to the concert alone and meeting other ladies. They're everywhere. Some of them are even single. Enjoy! Another method of avoiding the 'friendzone' is to never focus unearned attention or care on any particular person. They earn your care and not because they're a nubile morsel you'd like to nibble on. That's superficial. Time and lack of ambiguity about plans, as you're experiencing now, grow that care. For now, it's do what benefits you. Before making a decision, if she hasn't returned your confirmation request, call her; yeah, that voice thingie. If no joy, Plan B. Plan B became key to dating success some 30 years ago for me. Why? Dating prospects turned out to be married
fitnessfan365 Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) I'm not a woman and can't speak for them. Also, this is just an opinion based on my experiences over the years. So take it for what it's worth. But sadly, I think you're already in the friend zone. This is my theory : When a woman is initially attracted to you, she won't want to open up completely and get heavy/deep right away. Why? She cares about what you think. When there's attraction, it's almost like there's a little bit of uncomfortable that comes with anticipation and tension. Things are light, flirtatious, etc.. However, if a woman gets really heavy and deep right away it's because she's too comfortable and doesn't care what you think. So you're more of a friend/emotional outlet. I think if there was potential for romance, she probably would have been more flirtatious and playful trying to be more of a mystery to make you want her more. Not treated you like a shrink. Edited January 9, 2016 by fitnessfan365 3
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 I'm not a woman and can't speak for them. Also, this is just an opinion based on my experiences over the years. So take it for what it's worth. But sadly, I think you're already in the friend zone. This is my theory : When a woman is initially attracted to you, she won't want to open up completely and get heavy/deep right away. Why? She cares about what you think. When there's attraction, it's almost like there's a little bit of uncomfortable that comes with anticipation and tension. Things are light, flirtatious, etc.. However, if a woman gets really heavy and deep right away it's because she's too comfortable and doesn't care what you think. So you're more of a friend/emotional outlet. I think if there was potential for romance, she probably would have been more flirtatious and playful trying to be more of a mystery to make you want her more. Not treated you like a shrink. I think that is true in many cases, but I don't know. I don't know if shes the typical girl that needs a strong and confident man, and will more than likely get one who at least pretends to me, since few actually are. She seems like having people who understand the dynamic she is in is very valuable. But who knows! Live and learn. I'm stronger now than before I started talking with her, and know more about myself. I put myself out there when I had very little experience and that matters.
fitnessfan365 Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 I think that is true in many cases, but I don't know. I don't know if shes the typical girl that needs a strong and confident man, and will more than likely get one who at least pretends to me, since few actually are. She seems like having people who understand the dynamic she is in is very valuable. But who knows! Live and learn. I'm stronger now than before I started talking with her, and know more about myself. I put myself out there when I had very little experience and that matters. Well as I said, it's just an opinion and I'm not the be all end all. I could be wrong. I will say though, that it's probably a good idea to try and keep things light and fun. Get her to see you as someone she can be playful with where she can let her hair down. 1
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Well as I said, it's just an opinion and I'm not the be all end all. I could be wrong. I will say though, that it's probably a good idea to try and keep things light and fun. Get her to see you as someone she can be playful with where she can let her hair down. I'll try - IF she responds. She might be working today so that could explain the delay, but she hasn't been good about responding promptly. Was really hoping to have this hammered down. Damnit. I'm going to assume she's busy. She ended last night wishing me the sweetest of dreams. We did discuss that she needs to have a sense of self more self-generated and independent from others. So perhaps that whole time she was just worried about hurting me? I mean we talked for HOURS consistently. Aaah, LIFE IS PAIN. Edited January 9, 2016 by Sunyata
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 If she's clearly just not handling this well, should I say anything? It's like, since I am in a "growth stage" I want to say something. Something like: Hey! Sorry if your suggestions have been out of kindness. I was obviously interested and decided to pursue an optimistic interpretation, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable and won't bother you anymore!
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 Silence is an effective communication tool. Not when they still up responding clearly saying they didn't mean it in a bad way, and then invite you out, when you don't prod them for a response. Or when they talk to you for 3 hours the night before.
basil67 Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 If she's clearly just not handling this well, should I say anything? It's like, since I am in a "growth stage" I want to say something. Something like: Hey! Sorry if your suggestions have been out of kindness. I was obviously interested and decided to pursue an optimistic interpretation, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable and won't bother you anymore! If she has any interest in you at all, a text such as this would blow it completely. I generally scoff at all this Alpha/Beta guy stuff, but the only way to describe this is supremely Beta. Ugh If you can't be positive with her, just ignore her. 1
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 If she has any interest in you at all, a text such as this would blow it completely. I generally scoff at all this Alpha/Beta guy stuff, but the only way to describe this is supremely Beta. Ugh If you can't be positive with her, just ignore her. Well, in our long facebook chat last night, the worst thing I did probably was talk about using meditation (something we share in common) to eliminate the feeling of being a bad person from my childhood. She responded she doesn't know me that well but I seem like a really good person. Some day soon, my experience of approaches, success, and rejection will give me a better intuitive grasp of all this ****, and I won't have to overthink it by giving a technical outline on a forum thinking that there is a specific answer.
carhill Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Not when they still up responding clearly saying they didn't mean it in a bad way, and then invite you out, when you don't prod them for a response. Or when they talk to you for 3 hours the night before. It'll come in time. Carbon dioxide is an interesting thing. We exhale it, the trees obsorb it and make more oxygen. Talk, talk. I get it and, yup, used to believe in talk, talk. Sometimes it's just carbon dioxide being exhaled. 1
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 It'll come in time. Carbon dioxide is an interesting thing. We exhale it, the trees obsorb it and make more oxygen. Talk, talk. I get it and, yup, used to believe in talk, talk. Sometimes it's just carbon dioxide being exhaled. Not 100% following. You are saying our conversation was ultimately empty, despite appearing otherwise?
carhill Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 If her actions aren't matching up, yup, poof. Life is full of that. 1
Author Sunyata Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 If her actions aren't matching up, yup, poof. Life is full of that. Cool. Like I said, I decided a few months ago to finally start constructing my life within my own self. If that makes sense and I'm not just saying words. Find out who I am, feel my emotions, feel rejection, communicate my feelings when I like someone, and learn how to do it. No more being in my head so much, which has paralyzed my creativity and competence in all aspects of life. This was attempt #1. I'm 30 and have never experienced anything like it. Considering not even bothering checking my phone anymore. Hopefully her next message will just be honest. And next time she won't invite someone to multiple things only to go silent. Going to a movie and dinner with strangers from a meetup group. Still getting out at least.
carhill Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 OP, if an acquaintance, like one of the dudes in your social circle, had suggested a concert meet and things didn't work out, how would you feel about that? That's another tip to staying out of the friendzone, meaning to refrain from investing in otherwise incidental interactions unless and until there is clear reason to. This woman is no different than one of your male acquaintances, save for the apparent fact that you find her sexually attractive. You have control over how you process that. However, sometimes it's healthier to go through it, get pounded emotionally for awhile, then emerge with a style that respects your psyche. Perhaps it's not something that can be advised upon. What I noticed, back in the day when this was an issue, was that a strong circle of friends and an involved social calendar lessened the importance of any one interaction, which for myself was crucial since I tended to over-invest in interactions. More to do meant less time to dwell on things that went sideways or could go sideways. These days, while I still interact with women plenty and engage in numerous flirtations, I have no illusions about the unlikelihood of anyone holding my frail hand as I pass on to the nether. People do what they do. Keep doing what you do and it'll work out for you, one way or another. Just be clear about the dating part. That's the ticket out of the friendzone. I find it works well on married women who hit on me too, usually to hoover emotional attention. Poof. Heh.
TheBullFrog Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 If a woman is going to be receptive to you, reject you, put you in the friendzone or try to play match-maker with her 1-eyed 250lb cousin Bertha is completely out of your hands. A lot of women will give you step-by-step instructions on what they like, what they want, what they will respond to and what will turn them off, you can follow these instructions and things will still go sideways. When you ask those women what happened, they will look at you and simply say, "Chemistry" and that will end the discussion. All that you can do, as a man, is be a person that you're proud of and can respect. Some women will like it, some will hate it, but don't expect women to give you any useful direction in these matters. Wise words - never listen to what a women wants in a man or how to "date her". Usually its bad advice and leads to what you say. Play it cool, be confident and do what works with you in the past
Robratory Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Cool. Like I said, I decided a few months ago to finally start constructing my life within my own self. If that makes sense and I'm not just saying words. Find out who I am, feel my emotions, feel rejection, communicate my feelings when I like someone, and learn how to do it. No more being in my head so much, which has paralyzed my creativity and competence in all aspects of life. This was attempt #1. I'm 30 and have never experienced anything like it. Considering not even bothering checking my phone anymore. Hopefully her next message will just be honest. And next time she won't invite someone to multiple things only to go silent. Going to a movie and dinner with strangers from a meetup group. Still getting out at least. I think I know what you're going through because I've been there myself. I can relate exactly to what you're saying and how you're saying it. From my experience, I'll offer you some advice that I hope you consider along with all the other advice you get. You are going through an exciting period as you discover yourself. Perhaps you're even seeing a therapist. This can make you very open and unguarded, but this can make people uncomfortable, so I suggest you resist the temptation to have these long, open talks with women you're not yet involved with. Indeed, I'll suggest you not engage very much at all before meeting a woman. You should try to meet them as soon as you have each other's photos, names, phone numbers, and basic 50-word bio. If you get into long conversations, you become emotionally invested, and that can come crashing down when you meet. And as much as it is a cliche, I'll suggest you limit meetings to coffee, and definitely not activities. That way, you meet, there's no chemistry, you chat for ten minutes and then say goodbye. Otherwise, with an activity, you meet, there's no chemistry, and great... now you're stuck for the next three hours doing something you wouldn't have done except you wanted to meet the girl (and she might be thinking the same thing). How not to wind up in the friend zone? The first thing to do is to make sure she understands you like her "that way." If you're having coffee, and you like her, and she seems interested, and you've been talking for an hour, say something like, "I'm so glad we met today! You're very cute, and I'm having a great time talking to you. Let's go out on a real date." And here's where it gets scary. The fact is that almost anything but an enthusiastic yes means no, however, people (not just women) will go to great lengths to avoid saying no even when they don't say yes. The mistake we guys make is to assume that anything but a strong NO! means maybe. I'm not saying it never does, but life's too short. Easier to find someone who says YES! And if you don't get a yes to a real date, then move on. Don't accept offers of friendship. They're usually not sincere anyway, and by this, I don't mean anything malicious. It's just that women are far more conflict-adverse than men are, and it's scary to tell someone larger than you that you don't like them. So what they really mean when they say, "Let's just be friends," is more like, "Let's remain on civil, friendly terms." And suppose some woman really did mean that she wanted a friendship with you. The problem is that such a friendship is not sustainable. You're going to find an actual girlfriend, and then what? She's not going to be fine with you having a close female friend. She's going to say, "Hey, I'm your close female friend now!" and you would too, if the roles were reversed. So, to summarize -- * Be yourself but don't get too deep too quickly. * Meet as soon as possible. * Keep the meetings to coffee dates. * Try to secure the next date at the coffee date. * Tell her you're attracted and interested. * Move on if she's not also interested. Good luck!
Versacehottie Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Yeah I agree with fitness fan. For a normal girl who is cool enough and experienced enough, she is not gonna dump her emo stuff on you and share yours etc. She knows it's a turnoff. If she goes down that road, it's likely because she thinks of you as a friend. OR which could apply in your case, she is just a heavy/emo person in general--they exist and they think convo's like this in the initial stages are grand. I wouldn't agree but have seen it work if both people in the couple are like that. Usually a very intense and dependent relationship because emo "issues" and the bond and the 3rd member of the couple. So if you do go out with her have fun and show your fun side. And no never send a text that says "I won't bother you anymore". If you were doing alright a text like that immediately sends you into the pest zone. It's an unconfident statement. One of the worst things you could say. I hope she gets back to you and you have fun tonight. Good luck
thecrucible Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 To OP, you have some great advice here and I hope it goes well when you see her. This is my theory : When a woman is initially attracted to you, she won't want to open up completely and get heavy/deep right away. Why? She cares about what you think. When there's attraction, it's almost like there's a little bit of uncomfortable that comes with anticipation and tension. Things are light, flirtatious, etc.. However, if a woman gets really heavy and deep right away it's because she's too comfortable and doesn't care what you think. So you're more of a friend/emotional outlet. This is very perceptive and true. I've noticed that with guys I only really saw as friends, I would be more open and share more emotional stuff with them and not even feel embarrassed about it. Whereas if I like the guy, I'll try and keep things light for fear of putting him off. It's not something I noticed until I thought about it carefully so I never really saw what I was doing.
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