Asylum15 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Hi all, new here and just out of a complicated, emotionally draining and soul destroying relationship with a girl I was mad about. Since the situation was not a 'common' one, I just thought I'd share my experience and seek feedback or any advice. I thank you all in advance. A short introduction to me, I'm 23, almost a qualified Biomedical Engineer. Back in August, I was in the midst of enjoying the 'single' life, but was on the lookout for something more serious/committed. One night stands etc don't interest me, but rather a flaming connection. (I had never been in love before.) I had went on 1-2 dates with women, but they were a disaster, no real connection and little investment from them, even though they found me very attractive. (It happens.) Anyway, after a few weeks of floating about, working on myself (Gym, music etc), it was suggested to me to try Tinder. I immediately declined, since I viewed it as a 'hook-up' app, not a place where I'd meet the girl of my dreams. Anyways, one night out of boredom after a long day, I downloaded it, and lone behold, I matched with a girl that would become my girlfriend for the next 4 months. She was 19. We begun on Tinder chat etc, and I quickly suggested we move to WhatsApp, and speak to one another to make it more personal, and whatnot. We exchanged voicemails etc frequently, and in our FIRST WhatsApp ever, she found me so attractive (I verbally tried to turn her on slightly, more playfully sexual than anything), she begun to do things to herself while talking to me. When this ended, there was 1-2 days silence before I reinitiated contact. It seemed that doing this was a big deal to her, something she claims, ''she couldn't believe she'd do.'' My aim as a man in this situation was to meet her face to face ASAP, and sit down like adults to see if there was anything there between us. Now, we WhatsApp'd for the first time on July 12th, and it was August 4th before we went on a date! Incredible right? I felt she had no interest in me after the first week and almost left, but her continued expressions of interest made me think maybe this was an exceptional circumstance. She went on a 1 week holiday with her friends, and we WhatsApp'd everyday during that too, we were constantly connected. Just a good chemistry, same humour and positive vibes. By the time our first date came around, we knew a lot about each other, only thing missing was the physical part, and face to face contact. Now, she had told me two things just before our date; she was a virgin, and she hated holding hands (bad experience with her first boyfriend). When we met, the first thing I did, was hold her hand, it fitted like a glove and she smiled and said it felt comfortable, almost weirdly. Right from the start, we connected. Our first date was a 8 ball pool date, lots of flirting and push/pulling. She had told me one thing that attracted her most about a man was a guy who took control, both in life/bedroom. For this reason, I purposely didn't kiss her inside the pool place. Instead when we walked the street outside after we left, I decided to cut her off mid conversation, grab her arm and push her (not roughly) against the wall, and slowly go in for a kiss, stopping at 90% to let her come the other 10%, which she more than did! Hell of a first kiss, right? We kissed more times around the city, before I invited her back to my place. I didn't expect sex if I'm totally honest, I just wanted more time with her. I didn't want to pressure her, and infact didn't even suggest or bring it up. We were both lying in my bed chatting about penguins or the colour red or some craziness! I was preparing to sleep, when she went to the bathroom. When she came back, she said, ''I'm ready.'' Incredibly, she has chosen me as the guy to lose her virginity to. We had sex (incredibly good), and the following day we went to a zoo on a date. The connection was on fire, and quickly we became a couple. So everything is going well, right? After 2 months, she was in my house one day, lying on my bed, and she turned to me with a pale, emotionless expression, before telling me that her father physically abused her as a child, and her 3 other sisters too. He took it so far as to almost kill her on one occasion, and worse again, after all the court proceedings, he was allowed to remain living in the house, a home she told me she hates, and feels totally unsafe and isolated in. Her relationship with her sisters is one of distrust and is argumentative to say the least. It was a deep thing to tell me, but instead of worrying, I reassured her I would always support her, and give her all the space she needed. At this moment, I can't describe why, but we both fell in love. I was the one to say it to her, and she accepted it joyfully. It seemed that at that moment, everything would be ok. Unfortunately, as the days progressed, she complained more and more about things. Her best friend left for the USA (I'm from Ireland), and her other closest friend completely unfriended her over an argument, and never spoke to her again. She felt she had no 'real' friends, and combine this with a college course she dropped out of, and a job she hated, she grew more unhappy. The sweet, warm, innocent girl I fell in love with, became saddened, resentful and more and more difficult to reason with. Our love making was still incredible, our dates brilliant, we cuddled, and loved each other definitively every time we met, for every second, but things were not all well in her life, and I would dare say, in her head. The roller coaster truly begun about 2 months into things. We had went out with her friends and my friends to a nightclub. We had a lot of fun, and went back to my friend's apartment to sleep. After a great night, I woke to her looking at me with that same pale, emotionless, guilty face, before she told me, ''We have to break up, it's going to get worse, the stuff with dad etc.'' - I was shocked, stunned, world thrown upside down. But I once more reassured her that it didn't bother me, I wouldn't run away, or abandon her. After I shed quite a few tears, she wrote it off as a 'panic,' and said she was sorry and she 'needed' to see how I would react. Thinking things would be ok, it wasn't even 3 weeks later, she WhatsApp'd me in class to tell me she wanted a break. She ''didnt feel like her'' anymore, and stated a lot of things she wasn't happy with such as me being controlling (I honestly couldn't ever see how this was true, since I encouraged her to go out, even clubbing with her friends which most guys feel insecure about, I helped her find her college, and much more.), not getting on with her friends (which she herself talked negatively behind their backs about), and a range of other excuses that made no sense. A second panic? I once more pleaded, and after a day of no contact, she messaged me to say, ''any chance you want me to be your girlfriend again? '' It was a second hugely emotionally abusive ride. It's incredible to lose someone, lose that 'love' and be left with a hole, but for it to have happened twice in such a short period was truly draining for me, but due to her past, her mental damage, it seemed it wasn't even occurring to her that this was the case. I said yes to her, and we returned to normal, but at this point, my trust was slightly damaged, and my heart was on edge. Incredibly, a 3rd breakup came just after Halloween. I had decided that in her depressed state over college, work, and friends, I would remind her how much I cared. One day, I finished college early, and got 14 sheets of paper. On 13 of these, I wrote about a quality of hers I loved, and had a little jokey type thing at the end. On the 14th note, I wrote a poem about her and how much I cared. I then decided to go to a place she had brought me one time, a rundown mill by a river, it was her 'special' place as a kid. I walked 14 miles (yes 14 miles), with a college bag on my back, and crap shoes to this spot, almost being killed my traffic numerous times (our roads in Ireland in the countryside are narrow and dangerous as hell!) to the spot. I hid the 14 notes around the mill, for her to find. I got home a few hours later, and Facebook'd her to tell her where they were. I didn't expect anything in return, it was simply a gesture to brighten her spirits. How did she react? The following day, while in college again, she messaged me to tell me, ''I don't want this anymore, it's too much pressure, too much at 19. Your amazing, best boyfriend ever, but I'm just not other girls, I have no emotions.'' - As you can imagine, my head was shook, and I was absolutely baffled. How can a girl ask to break up when you show her such compassion? I once more pleaded, but it was useless. She was certain and we went out of contact for a few days. Honestly, I was in shock, and couldn't even think, or do anything constructive. On the Saturday night of that week, she went out (''single'') and when approached by men, she felt uncomfortable and unnatural. That night she text me apologetically, and asked if we could be together again. At this point, my emotions etc were so skewed and my head so distorted I agreed again, but I requested that we had to change things or we'd end up in a loop. I told her she needed therapy, and we needed to sort out the balance between my expression/loving care and the space between us. She agreed, and we got back together, and it seemed a GREAT decision! No issues for weeks, and closer than ever. As far as I knew she WASNT getting therapy, but it seemed she was finally relaxed and my more 'hands off' approach to the love thing was working well. However, around mid-December, I felt that she was being distant out of the blue. She had turned down 3 dates in a row, and hadn't asked to see me for over 10 days. She was still in contact, but said it was due to being busy. (She did mind her sisters kids as well as work.) However, since I was doing engineering final exams, my time was even more limited, and I felt it was unfair if I could make even an hour to see her in 14 days, she couldn't do the same. I confronted her, and we ended up having a huge argument. She claimed she 'wasn't the emotional type that invests etc,' and having gone to her to be gentle and ask nicely, 'is everything ok, could you invest a little more,' it turned into a serious fight where some insults were thrown. I threatened to leave (had zero intention) and she then broke up again. 4th time, and feeling like an idiot. However, I had to communicate my dissatisfaction with her. I loved her to pieces, and every minute together was magical, we were like soul mates in terms of how we were like 2 best friends, in a relationship. She broke up with me on the 21st of December, horrible timing, just before I got time off college, and all the events/parties we had lined up. I was heartbroken I wouldn't spend New Years with her and more. I pleaded for almost 10 days for her to reconsider, but unfortunately, she wouldn't. I became angry about how I'd been treated and then insulted her, calling her manipulative, and more. She came to me many times saying, ''I miss you, what am I going to do without you?'' Yet, when I suggested she rethink her decision, she got defensive and distant. A horrible mind-trick that put me all over the place. In the midst of insults and arguments, she told me that she WAS getting therapy, and had been the entire month we were together. The therapist said she was 'deep in depression.' Not sure why she kept it from me, it would have been beneficial to tell me I think, in terms of adjusting my behaviours etc, allowing her more space. Anyways, the therapist APPARENTLY told her she needed to ''do this alone,'' and ''work her herself first.'' - While understandable, it was just so hard to take for me. I'd given everything and lost it all. Probably my first mistake. Anyway, she stuck with her decision, and even told me to not contact her anymore as she needs, ''time to breathe.'' - I've unfortunately broken the rule, and reached out 2-3 times. Going from deep in love, to no-contact in 14 days is incredibly hard, especially when I'm the person being left. I've since made an effort to block her Facebook, WhatsApp, SnapChat and more, but the itch is ever prevalent. I really loved this girl, and having been with many women, she was by far the most special one to me. So what do you think? Was I crazy to keep going back? Should I go no contact and just forget her? Like many on here, I still wish that if she got her mental state in a better place, we could work. She often said to me, ''you'll be the man who has my children, I know it.'' Immature words, possibly, but it hits hard with me. What should I do from here? it's been 2 days since we contacted each other, and I'm very down, and energy less, and emotionless right now. Sorry for the length of the thread, but I needed to get it off my chest.
Downtown Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Asylum, welcome back after your two-year absence. I'm sorry to hear your recent 4-month relationship was so painful. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, low empathy, cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back, black-white thinking (e.g., flipping between adoring you and devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD. I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums. We were like soul mates in terms of how we were like 2 best friends, in a relationship.... Our love making was still incredible, our dates brilliant, we cuddled, and loved each other definitively every time we met, for every second.If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), this feeling "like soul mates" is exactly what you should expect. Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of self, she doesn't really know who she is. Hence, from a very young age, a BPDer learns to reflect back the very best features of the people close to her. When a BPDer becomes infatuated with you, this mirroring process will be so perfect that you BOTH will be absolutely convinced you are soul mates. , but.... the roller coaster truly begun about 2 months into things.The mirroring process lasts until her infatuation starts to evaporate, which typically is about 4 to 6 months into the R/S. So, if your exGF is a BPDer, you got short changed with only 2 months. As soon as her infatuation evaporates, the "roller coaster" -- as you say -- begins because the infatuation is not there to keep her fears at bay. The resulting roller coaster -- a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear. As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, you were always in a lose/lose situation. You were certain to lose no matter what you did. The problem, of course, is that there was no midpoints solution (midway between "too far" and "too close") where you could safely stand and avoid triggering her fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years looking for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist. Her father physically abused her as a child, and her 3 other sisters too. He took it so far as to almost kill her on one occasion....Most abused children do not develop BPD when they grow up. Such abuse, however, greatly raises their risk for doing so. Indeed, a recent large-scale study found that 70% of BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned by a parent in childhood. My BPDer exW, for example, had been sexually abused by her own father for years. And, when she got old enough to fight him off, he started physically abusing her. She often said to me, ''you'll be the man who has my children, I know it.'' Immature words, possibly, but it hits hard with me.If she is a BPDer, those words likely are far more immature than you realize. Due to a childhood trauma and/or an inherited predisposition, a BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at the level of a 3- or 4-year-old child. This is why BPDers lack the emotional skills to properly regulate their emotions -- and why they never had an opportunity to develop a strong, integrated sense of self identity. And this is why they rely so heavily on the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These defenses include, e.g., denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums. Her relationship with her sisters is one of distrust and is argumentative to say the least.If she is a BPDer, she cannot trust other people until she first learns how to trust herself. Yet, because she does not know who she is, and because flips between adoring you some days and devaluing you on other days, she cannot learn how to trust herself without years of professional guidance. We both fell in love. I was the one to say it to her, and she accepted it joyfully. It seemed that at that moment, everything would be ok. If she is a BPDer, she likely did love you very intensely (albeit in the immature way a young child is able to love). Moreover, she would have been able to stay in touch with that love throughout the infatuation period. The infatuation had convinced her that you were the nearly perfect man who had arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. When the infatuation evaporated, however, her two fears returned. I mention this so you realize that her love for likely is still there in her mind. Yet, because a BPDer is so emotionally immature, she is unable to handle strong conflicting feelings. Hence, as soon as her fears returned and you started triggering her fears and anger, her subconscious greatly simplified things by putting her love for you completely out of reach of her conscious mind. Like a young child, BPDers are in touch with only one intense feeling (e.g., love or hate) at a time. Later, when her anger has cooled down, a BPDer will be back in touch with the love and completely out of touch with the anger. This is why a BPDer typically flips -- in only ten seconds -- between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing, or even hating, you). And a BPDer can flip back again just as quickly -- a few hours, days, or weeks later. Likewise, a young child will adore Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but then suddenly flip to hating Daddy when he takes one away. Her other closest friend completely unfriended her over an argument, and never spoke to her again. She felt she had no 'real' friends.The vast majority of BPDers interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would trigger her engulfment fear. Consequently, a BPDer's dysfunctional traits typically do not appear until one of those folks makes the mistake of drawing close to form a close LTR with her. This is why it is common to see high functioning BPDers excelling at difficult jobs requiring coordination and cooperation with numerous coworkers. Indeed, it is common to see HF BPDers being caring and thoughtful all day long to clients, colleagues, and complete strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them. I once more reassured her that it didn't bother me, I wouldn't run away, or abandon her. After I shed quite a few tears, she wrote it off as a 'panic,' and said she was sorry and she 'needed' to see how I would react.If she has strong BPD traits, you likely will be able to convince her that you are devoted to her and won't run away -- at this moment in time. She will live in fear, however, that you will eventually change your mind when you realize how empty she is on the inside. Because a BPDer is filled with self loathing and shame, she cannot believe anyone will remain loyal when they find out what she is like on the inside. She wanted a break. She ''didnt feel like her'' anymore. Because a BPDer has such a fragile, unstable sense of identity, she often will experience the scary feeling of not being who she thought she was. Moreover, because she has no stable self image with which to erect strong personal boundaries, a BPDers has great difficulty telling where "she" leaves off and "you" begin. The result is that she easily becomes so enmeshed with your problems and your personality that she starts to feel engulfed by your personality. She stated a lot of things she wasn't happy with such as me being controlling.Part of the engulfment feeling is an intense feeling of being "controlled" by you. It is a scaring feeling of evaporating into thin air and becoming engulfed by the other person. This is why BPDers mistakenly believe they are being "controlled" by the spouse. Generally, the opposite is true. It is the BPDer who typically is very controlling, hoping to avoid situations that trigger one of her two fears. She then broke up again. 4th time.BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that 23% went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. The therapist said she was 'deep in depression.' The vast majority of BPDers also suffer from at least one "clinical disorder, " such as PTSD, depression, anxiety, or bipolar. A recent large-scale study found that 81% of female BPDers also suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder (including depression) -- and 36% of female BPDers also suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. She told me to not contact her anymore as she needs, ''time to breathe.''If she has strong BPD traits, she likely was being truthful and remarkably candid with you. Although BPDers usually crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for very long because they will start feeling engulfed and controlled. So what do you think?I think she likely will be back unless you go NO CONTACT and block all her access to you. What should I do from here?If you decide she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, I would suggest that you stay far away from her. If you nonetheless feel strongly tempted to take her back, I would suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. In that event, I also would suggest that -- while you're looking for a good psych -- you take take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. (If it doesn't ring any bells, I would suggest you read about Avoidant PD symptoms.) Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Asylum.
Author Asylum15 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 Asylum, welcome back after your two-year absence. I'm sorry to hear your recent 4-month relationship was so painful. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, low empathy, cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back, black-white thinking (e.g., flipping between adoring you and devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD. I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), this feeling "like soul mates" is exactly what you should expect. Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of self, she doesn't really know who she is. Hence, from a very young age, a BPDer learns to reflect back the very best features of the people close to her. When a BPDer becomes infatuated with you, this mirroring process will be so perfect that you BOTH will be absolutely convinced you are soul mates. The mirroring process lasts until her infatuation starts to evaporate, which typically is about 4 to 6 months into the R/S. So, if your exGF is a BPDer, you got short changed with only 2 months. As soon as her infatuation evaporates, the "roller coaster" -- as you say -- begins because the infatuation is not there to keep her fears at bay. The resulting roller coaster -- a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear. As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, you were always in a lose/lose situation. You were certain to lose no matter what you did. The problem, of course, is that there was no midpoints solution (midway between "too far" and "too close") where you could safely stand and avoid triggering her fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years looking for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist. Most abused children do not develop BPD when they grow up. Such abuse, however, greatly raises their risk for doing so. Indeed, a recent large-scale study found that 70% of BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned by a parent in childhood. My BPDer exW, for example, had been sexually abused by her own father for years. And, when she got old enough to fight him off, he started physically abusing her. If she is a BPDer, those words likely are far more immature than you realize. Due to a childhood trauma and/or an inherited predisposition, a BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at the level of a 3- or 4-year-old child. This is why BPDers lack the emotional skills to properly regulate their emotions -- and why they never had an opportunity to develop a strong, integrated sense of self identity. And this is why they rely so heavily on the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These defenses include, e.g., denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums. If she is a BPDer, she cannot trust other people until she first learns how to trust herself. Yet, because she does not know who she is, and because flips between adoring you some days and devaluing you on other days, she cannot learn how to trust herself without years of professional guidance. If she is a BPDer, she likely did love you very intensely (albeit in the immature way a young child is able to love). Moreover, she would have been able to stay in touch with that love throughout the infatuation period. The infatuation had convinced her that you were the nearly perfect man who had arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. When the infatuation evaporated, however, her two fears returned. I mention this so you realize that her love for likely is still there in her mind. Yet, because a BPDer is so emotionally immature, she is unable to handle strong conflicting feelings. Hence, as soon as her fears returned and you started triggering her fears and anger, her subconscious greatly simplified things by putting her love for you completely out of reach of her conscious mind. Like a young child, BPDers are in touch with only one intense feeling (e.g., love or hate) at a time. Later, when her anger has cooled down, a BPDer will be back in touch with the love and completely out of touch with the anger. This is why a BPDer typically flips -- in only ten seconds -- between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing, or even hating, you). And a BPDer can flip back again just as quickly -- a few hours, days, or weeks later. Likewise, a young child will adore Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but then suddenly flip to hating Daddy when he takes one away. The vast majority of BPDers interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would trigger her engulfment fear. Consequently, a BPDer's dysfunctional traits typically do not appear until one of those folks makes the mistake of drawing close to form a close LTR with her. This is why it is common to see high functioning BPDers excelling at difficult jobs requiring coordination and cooperation with numerous coworkers. Indeed, it is common to see HF BPDers being caring and thoughtful all day long to clients, colleagues, and complete strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them. If she has strong BPD traits, you likely will be able to convince her that you are devoted to her and won't run away -- at this moment in time. She will live in fear, however, that you will eventually change your mind when you realize how empty she is on the inside. Because a BPDer is filled with self loathing and shame, she cannot believe anyone will remain loyal when they find out what she is like on the inside. Because a BPDer has such a fragile, unstable sense of identity, she often will experience the scary feeling of not being who she thought she was. Moreover, because she has no stable self image with which to erect strong personal boundaries, a BPDers has great difficulty telling where "she" leaves off and "you" begin. The result is that she easily becomes so enmeshed with your problems and your personality that she starts to feel engulfed by your personality. Part of the engulfment feeling is an intense feeling of being "controlled" by you. It is a scaring feeling of evaporating into thin air and becoming engulfed by the other person. This is why BPDers mistakenly believe they are being "controlled" by the spouse. Generally, the opposite is true. It is the BPDer who typically is very controlling, hoping to avoid situations that trigger one of her two fears. BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that 23% went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. The vast majority of BPDers also suffer from at least one "clinical disorder, " such as PTSD, depression, anxiety, or bipolar. A recent large-scale study found that 81% of female BPDers also suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder (including depression) -- and 36% of female BPDers also suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. If she has strong BPD traits, she likely was being truthful and remarkably candid with you. Although BPDers usually crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for very long because they will start feeling engulfed and controlled. I think she likely will be back unless you go NO CONTACT and block all her access to you. If you decide she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, I would suggest that you stay far away from her. If you nonetheless feel strongly tempted to take her back, I would suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. In that event, I also would suggest that -- while you're looking for a good psych -- you take take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. (If it doesn't ring any bells, I would suggest you read about Avoidant PD symptoms.) Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Asylum. Downtown, this is an absolutely incredible response, and is literally 100% accurate. If I wanted to contact you as you mentioned, do you have an email address or Skype? Thank you so much.
Downtown Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Asylum, I'm glad to hear you found the information useful. Until you've made a few more posts, you don't have Private Message privileges. This means I cannot PM you and you cannot PM me. The result is that we have no way to share an address or phone number without sharing it with the world. To the extent you are comfortable discussing your situation here on the public forum, I encourage you to do so. That way you will benefit not only from my experiences but also from those of many other forum members having experience with dysfunctional partners. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your current thread, for example, has already attracted over two hundred views in less than two days. If you would like to read a good book on the subject of BPDers, I would recommend Stop Walking on Eggshells or a copy of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! They are the two best selling BPD books that are targeted to the abused partners. Significantly, I usually recommend that a person read one of these books when he is still stuck in the toxic relationship -- or is very tempted to take the BPDer back -- or is at risk of running into the arms of another woman just like the one he left. Yet, if you're confident that you are safely out of the toxic relationships and will not be tempted to renew it, and if you simply want to deal with the pain of leaving a BPDer, I would recommend you read three online articles. Two of them are Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9 at BPDfamily) and Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10). The third article is the best explanation I have found of how excessive caregivers (like you and me) get to be this way during our childhoods -- setting us up for a train wreck when we meet an attractive BPDer. It is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?. Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). Edited January 10, 2016 by Downtown
Author Asylum15 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Posted January 10, 2016 Asylum, I'm glad to hear you found the information useful. Until you've made a few more posts, you don't have Private Message privileges. This means I cannot PM you and you cannot PM me. The result is that we have no way to share an address or phone number without sharing it with the world. To the extent you are comfortable discussing your situation here on the public forum, I encourage you to do so. That way you will benefit not only from my experiences but also from those of many other forum members having experience with dysfunctional partners. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your current thread, for example, has already attracted over two hundred views in less than two days. If you would like to read a good book on the subject of BPDers, I would recommend Stop Walking on Eggshells or a copy of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! They are the two best selling BPD books that are targeted to the abused partners. Significantly, I usually recommend that a person read one of these books when he is still stuck in the toxic relationship -- or is very tempted to take the BPDer back -- or is at risk of running into the arms of another woman just like the one he left. Yet, if you're confident that you are safely out of the toxic relationships and will not be tempted to renew it, and if you simply want to deal with the pain of leaving a BPDer, I would recommend you read three online articles. Two of them are Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9 at BPDfamily) and Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10). The third article is the best explanation I have found of how excessive caregivers (like you and me) get to be this way during our childhoods -- setting us up for a train wreck when we meet an attractive BPDer. It is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?. Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). Downtown, I would like to share some more info here, possibly you could give me your feedback on this too? Your insight has been remarkable. - Due to her abusive past (My guess) she was a strong believer in Feminism. Now, there is nothing wrong with this, and in fact I found it attractive that she had a cause she believed in. However, one night we got into a serious argument where I had said, ''I would be uncomfortable if my 16 year old daughter was wearing revealing clothes in clubs etc.'' Just my feelings on it. My ex completely blew up and told me ''it was over etc.'' Now, we were back that night, but more signs of irritability etc? My argument was totally respective and purely to see opinions etc but she just lost her mind at me. This peculiar one: - One night while we were lying on my bed together, she was Facebook chatting with her best friend and jokingly asked me to send a message to her friend. (The best friend thinking it was her.) So she hands me the phone but clumsily her thumb swiped up the screen when she handed me the phone. My immediate reaction was of course to swipe down to the latest part of the conversation but as I did, natural human curiosity took over me because I saw her say something like: ''I met his best friend the other night and he's so attractive. No guy has made me laugh so much and I wish I met him first.'' Now the only reason I read this was because I saw, ''wish I met him first.'' My eyes just locked on before I just handed her the phone back. To see that my girlfriend found my best friend attractive was a sickening feeling. I confronted her about it, admitting I had somewhat 'read' her messages but honestly it was completely unintentional. I had no suspicions or anything of her, or worries about cheating etc, but human curiosity and the speed of the eye are powerful things. Her excuse? ''I don't find him attractive I swear. When I was young, my mom told me that there is a few things to look out for to know a man will change and become aggressive. (She was hinting at her abusive father.) Since we had a few fights and arguments, and he (my best friend) and I had no conflict I just thought maybe it was better if I had met him first.'' - Makes very little sense, and I found it to be a lie to be honest. She also claimed - ''He's the only straight guy I know and it was different/new to me.'' She got extremely angry when I continue to say, ''its hard to believe you.'' - And to this day claims she never 'fancied' him. Thoughts Downtown?
Downtown Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Her excuse? ''I don't find him attractive I swear....'' - Makes very little sense, and I found it to be a lie to be honest.Lying is a narcissistic trait, not a BPD trait. Hence, if she lies frequently, you are describing the warning signs for narcissism (or perhaps sociopathy). In contrast, BPDers typically lie only when painted into a corner. Because they are filled with shame carried from childhood, the last thing they want to live with is more guilt -- as would occur with telling lies. The result is that a BPDer usually doesn't have to lie because her subconscious protects her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It does this by projecting all mistakes and misdeeds onto you, allowing her to consciously believe that YOU are the source. This is why I said earlier that a BPDer usually believes the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. This is not to say, however, that having strong BPD traits rules out lying. My experience is that BPDers will lie when in a corner to avoid the pain of experiencing shame. Moreover, a third of the female, full-blown BPDers also exhibit full-blown narcissism (see Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP). Most people having one PD also suffer from one or two others as well. My point then is that, if you are seeing a BPDer lying frequently, it likely is because she also exhibits strong narcissism. I had said, ''I would be uncomfortable if my 16 year old daughter was wearing revealing clothes in clubs etc.'' Just my feelings on it. My ex completely blew up and told me ''it was over etc.'' ...she just lost her mind at me.If your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds -- over a very trivial comment. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. Significantly, the BPDer typically is completely unaware that her anger has little or nothing to do with your trivial comment. As I observed above, her subconscious mind projects her painful feelings and thoughts onto you, with the result that she consciously believes that they are actually originating with you. Moreover, her painful feeling is so intense that she is convinced it MUST be true, i.e., MUST be coming from you. Hence, if you somehow manage to prove to her that her allegation is false, she will simply substitute another "explanation" for why you have hurt her feelings. And, in the unlikely event you prove that false too, she likely will immediately revert back to her first outrageous allegation -- acting as though you two had never discussed it before.
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