I really dislike this type of thinking

[67Chevelle]

Below is an article about how a grandmother posted on Facebook encouraging her grandaughters to "Date the nerd at school, he could be the next Mark Zuckerberg".

 

The Facebook CEO suggested that the granddaughters “be the nerd” at school, rather than just aspire to date one.

 

Mark Zuckerberg Had An Amazing Response For A Woman Who Said She Told Her Granddaughter To "Date The Nerd" | IFLScience

 

Throughout my life I have repeatedly heard grandmothers, mothers, and sisters give bad advice just as this grandmother did. Women like her still have that mindset that a woman should find a man to take care and provide for her. Too many women still look at a man as their meal ticket or lottery and unfortunately this poor advice is still being handed down through generations. I really believe there are many women that grow up with the mindset of how to land a successful husband rather than "be" a successful woman.

Edited January 6, 2016 by 67Chevelle

[GunslingerRoland]

Lets not be too harsh to the grandmother, she probably grew up in a different time, when women didn't work and had to find the most successful husband.

 

 

But I do love the response!

[pteromom]

There is no reason to dislike that type of thinking.

 

Even in this day and age, there are women who long for a very traditional marriage, where she cares for the children and home, and the man is the provider. It is WISE for a woman who wants that lifestyle to put thought into the success (or potential for success) for the man she chooses.

 

And BTW - being a stay-at-home mom does not mean that a woman is not successful. There are many ways to define success outside of income.

 

Still - if that is NOT the lifestyle you want, and you want a modern woman who pays her own way and doesn't need you as a provider, then seek out that type of woman. But there is no reason to feel anger toward those who think differently than you.

[pteromom]

Too many women still look at a man as their meal ticket or lottery

 

Oh and it isn't THIS (at least not most of the time.)

 

It is just that some women appreciate traditional gender roles. They want to be the caretaker and home manager, and want the husband to be the provider. Both are important roles in the success of a home and family.

 

FYI - there are still plenty of MEN who want that in a relationship as well.

[preraph]

Thankfully, they're not all like that anymore. I have only known one woman who was ruined by her mother's bad advice to always be compliant/submissive and find a guy with money and she stayed with a loser bully for many years. But at least in my circle, mothers want their daughters to live better than they did, and that means being able to stand on their own two feet.

[sambolini]

Oh and it isn't THIS (at least not most of the time.)

 

It is just that some women appreciate traditional gender roles. They want to be the caretaker and home manager, and want the husband to be the provider. Both are important roles in the success of a home and family.

 

FYI - there are still plenty of MEN who want that in a relationship as well.

 

I respectfully disagree. My experience with women who want a "traditional marriage" are most definitely looking for a meal ticket and a walking ATM. I would caution any man who is thinking about stepping into that traditional role.

 

Odds are 50% the marriage will end in divorce.

 

Odds are about 75% the wife will be the one who files for divorce.

 

In that scenario, odds are 100% he will be paying alimony and child support.

 

Yes, I know "NAWALT", but it's not ever a risk I'd recommend any man take. The odds are not in his favor and he has the potential to lose everything he's worked for.

 

OP has a right to say the grandmother's thinking is outdated and no longer applicable today. We live in the 21st century.

[GoodOnPaper]

So a "nerd" has no dating/sex/relationship value, no matter what level of success he achieves in one or more aspects of his life?

[d0nnivain]

To the extent the suggestion was for the granddaughters to not discriminate against somebody who isn't the popular jock in high school, it's good advice. Those who peak in high school rarely have fulfilling lives as adults.

 

To the extent it's advice to not be self supporting it's problematic.

[MightyPen]

I respectfully disagree. My experience with women who want a "traditional marriage" are most definitely looking for a meal ticket and a walking ATM. I would caution any man who is thinking about stepping into that traditional role.

 

Odds are 50% the marriage will end in divorce.

 

Odds are about 75% the wife will be the one who files for divorce.

 

In that scenario, odds are 100% he will be paying alimony and child support.

 

Yes, I know "NAWALT", but it's not ever a risk I'd recommend any man take. The odds are not in his favor and he has the potential to lose everything he's worked for.

 

OP has a right to say the grandmother's thinking is outdated and no longer applicable today. We live in the 21st century.

 

Yeah I'll co-sign this. I'd also warn any men who are considering "bringing home the bacon" for a woman who doesn't. The guy will get absolutely KILLED in a divorce because the earnings are sooooo uneven. And typically, the longer the woman either hasn't worked or has taken part-time work to "care for the home," the more screwed he is. And let's not forget the "she's become accustomed to a certain lifestyle" argument.

 

 

And yeah I agree with the OP about the outdated thinking. Thankfully there is less and less of it today as old-fashioned "traditions" lose much of their influence. But it takes time to totally shift society's views.

[pteromom]

I respectfully disagree. My experience with women who want a "traditional marriage" are most definitely looking for a meal ticket and a walking ATM. I would caution any man who is thinking about stepping into that traditional role.

 

Odds are 50% the marriage will end in divorce.

 

Odds are about 75% the wife will be the one who files for divorce.

 

In that scenario, odds are 100% he will be paying alimony and child support.

 

Yes, I know "NAWALT", but it's not ever a risk I'd recommend any man take. The odds are not in his favor and he has the potential to lose everything he's worked for.

 

OP has a right to say the grandmother's thinking is outdated and no longer applicable today. We live in the 21st century.

 

I am older than a lot of you guys, but I know LOTS of happy traditional marriages. Long-term marriages where both people seem happy and fulfilled.

 

Of course OP has a RIGHT to say anything he wants to say. And I have a right to disagree that the grandmother's thinking is no longer applicable. I know many young people who think very conservatively and traditionally. They are still out there.

[pteromom]

Yeah I'll co-sign this. I'd also warn any men who are considering "bringing home the bacon" for a woman who doesn't. The guy will get absolutely KILLED in a divorce because the earnings are sooooo uneven. And typically, the longer the woman either hasn't worked or has taken part-time work to "care for the home," the more screwed he is. And let's not forget the "she's become accustomed to a certain lifestyle" argument.

 

 

And yeah I agree with the OP about the outdated thinking. Thankfully there is less and less of it today as old-fashioned "traditions" lose much of their influence. But it takes time to totally shift society's views.

 

That people go into marriage already considering what will happen when they divorce is also a reflection of today that many people do not subscribe to.

[Quiet Storm]

For me, being a mom and a wife is more rewarding than my career. If we could afford to live comfortably on my husband's salary alone, I'd stay home & would be totally content.

 

I know many women like me who have a career and are proud of their corporate accomplishments, but still wish they could afford to stay home. They'd happily have their husband be the breadwinner so they could be home with their kids, but they just can't afford it. We often feel conflicted, guilty and overwhelmed because we aren't where they really want to be.

 

We should always encourage young women to be the best that they can be, and to follow their dreams. But if a woman's dream is to be a stay at home mom, then the most realistic way to make that happen is to find a husband who is willing to support the family financially, while she does her valuable work at home.

 

I dislike the type of thinking that suggests women can do anything their heart desires, but if their heart is at home, then they are settling or unsuccessful.

 

I have been a little girl and am raising a little girl (well, she's almost 13, so not so little anymore ). Many little girls naturally play house, rock their baby dolls and feel that no matter what their future holds, the one thing they really want is to be a mom. That's OK and should be encouraged, just like it is OK for a little girl to dream of being a doctor or a pilot.

 

At one point society looked down on women who worked outside the home and judged them for neglecting their family. Now, it seems like society devalues women who choose to stay at home, even though there are millions of working moms that would quit in a heartbeat if they had the chance.

 

It's great if girls want to be the nerd and have career goals of corporate accomplishments and success. But it's also great if girls want to find a nerd to create a family with, and plan to stay home with their kids (as long as her nerd is on the same page & OK with being the sole provider, which many guys are).

[d0nnivain]

That people go into marriage already considering what will happen when they divorce is also a reflection of today that many people do not subscribe to.

 

I don't know. DH & I got a pre-nup. I found the process very helpful because it forced us to talk about some tough stuff before we got married. We both said that we'd rather hammer out some of this stuff while we still liked each other as opposed to figuring it out in divorce court when tempers ran hot. I also think it gave us tools to help us talk about the tough stuff & see each other's perspectives, which has prevented the types of disagreements that lead to divorce. We both said that because we went through the process of thinking about what would happen if our marriage failed we would not have that problem.

 

So strategizing as a preventative measure is a good thing.

[thefooloftheyear]

That people go into marriage already considering what will happen when they divorce is also a reflection of today that many people do not subscribe to.

 

 

True...

 

But unless the rules truly become "fair" its the dumbest idea ever to not consider it...(what could happen)...

 

Just sayin'

 

TFY

[JohnAdams]

That people go into marriage already considering what will happen when they divorce is also a reflection of today that many people do not subscribe to.

 

I do think that is a problem today and probably adds to the number of divorces. When my wife and I married, I thought forever, divorce was not an option. We did both come from parents with long term traditional marriages.

 

 

My daughter unfortunately, did end up divorcing. Her first husband was a "macho" man that could not keep a job. Her current husband is a geek with a very good income. They have a traditional marriage, she stays home and home schools the children. They are very happy.

 

 

I would hope income or profession not be a primary driver in finding a mate. I do think the geeks, and from reading these forums there are probably quite a few here having trouble finding a lady, are often a good catch and often over looked.

[67Chevelle]

 

I do think the geeks, and from reading these forums there are probably quite a few here having trouble finding a lady, are often a good catch and often over looked.

 

I agree with that. I think theres many situations where the "geek" only gets looked at after the woman gets burned, and finally learns to choose a man for his character rather than his looks/macho personality.

[Woggle]

That people go into marriage already considering what will happen when they divorce is also a reflection of today that many people do not subscribe to.

 

It is sad but is reality. You do deal with things as they are and not how you wish them to be and divorce is epidemic these days. Chances are a marriage will not last so any man who married needs to make sure she has her own stuff coming into the marriage.

[67Chevelle]

I am older than a lot of you guys, but I know LOTS of happy traditional marriages. Long-term marriages where both people seem happy and fulfilled.

 

Yes I agree and disagree. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with the traditional marriages that work out that way. But they are few and far between these days. If thats what the husband and wife truly want then thats their choice.

 

What I'm mostly talking about is how other women "influence" and plant the seed in a girls mind from a young age that its her job to look pretty and attract a man with a good job.

 

I have personally heard it with my own ears at many family and social functions.

[pteromom]

True...

 

But unless the rules truly become "fair" its the dumbest idea ever to not consider it...(what could happen)...

 

Just sayin'

 

TFY

 

What would be "fair" to you?

 

For a wife to give 20 years of her life to taking care of a man's home and children, and supporting him through school and career changes so he could become more successful, then having her go out and get a minimum wage job when they divorce so that he can live the high life on the salary he built with her support?

 

Yes, there are situations where the wife takes the husband to the cleaners. But lately I am seeing lots of stories about how husbands feel the wife isn't entitled to ANY of the money simply because her contribution wasn't financial, and I don't agree with that at all.

 

-----

 

So let's say a couple gets together in their early 20s. They both have "traditional values" and plan for him to become a doctor, while she will be a SAHM and household manager. This is what they both want.

 

While he goes to school and works part time, she works retail to make ends meet. When he graduates, they have a child and she quits her job. She continues to do things like in-home child care and crafting and such to bring some money in while he is stepping up to his career, but it isn't much.

 

Things get better financially. He is hired by a hospital, and they have enough to live on without her financial help. They have another child. She does a great job of managing the household, keeping things clean, teaching the kids, making meals. Life is great for everyone.

 

After a few years, he decides to start his own practice. This is scary because of the risk involved, but she supports his dream. They get an equity loan on their home. They cash in the 401K. She goes in and sets up the bookkeeping for him. Helps him hire a team. Takes care of things behind the scenes while he is obsessed with building his practice. Goes without romance and love and friendship in support of him and his career.

 

Things continue to go upward. They have another child. His practice is flourishing. Things become VERY good financially. He's finally able to pay off his student loans. He plays golf on weekends knowing his children and home are taken care of. She shops with friends on weekends, knowing that the bills are taken care of and that she can afford this fun day of shopping.

 

Both of them work hard for the life they have - in very different ways. Both of them have built their success, and neither could have done it without the other.

 

Now it is 20 years in. For the sake of argument, let's say this divorce is nobody's "fault". No affairs or abuse or anything like that. Both of them are just lonely and realize they want different types of relationships. There is no animosity, no anger, no arguing. They just both want OUT. At this point, he is making $300K a year. She is making ZERO.

 

What should she get? What would be "fair" to you?

[Quiet Storm]

My husband and I married with forever in mind and we also both came from traditional two parent homes, although his was much more functional & healthy than mine was. It's smart to consider all outcomes, but marriage isn't the only risk. There is no guarantee that a career will be successful, either.

 

Many women have spent thousands on their education, put all their time & energy into their career, only to get laid off or find that their dream jobs are unavailable. Other women have dedicated themselves to their careers and regret it later when time to have a family runs out. Some working moms get to retirement age, look back on their successful career and accomplishments, and conclude that family is what mattered most of all.

 

It is risky for a guy to agree to be the breadwinner, and I understand how scary it can be to imagine a divorce where the ex-wife takes everything. I have two sons, so I do feel this is a valid concern. But guys should also consider that their priorities could change when they have kids. Maybe divorce & your intact bank account won't be a top concern once that bouncy baby is on your lap. Once you have kids, you want the best for them, even if it means you have to sacrifice sometimes.

 

My husband and I always planned to be a dual income family, but when the first baby came and my mother's instinct was screaming at me to stay home and my baby was screaming at day care, he wished we could afford for me to stay home because we weren't happy. Our well being & our family's happiness was more valuable and important than any fear about a future divorce.

 

We only get one life, and when you're taking those last breaths, what will you be thinking about? Your career? Your bank account?

[sambolini]

Yes I agree and disagree. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with the traditional marriages that work out that way. But they are few and far between these days. If thats what the husband and wife truly want then thats their choice.

 

What I'm mostly talking about is how other women "influence" and plant the seed in a girls mind from a young age that its her job to look pretty and attract a man with a good job.

 

I have personally heard it with my own ears at many family and social functions.

 

This happens. That's why I'm grateful I had a daughter. I've told her many times, it's her responsibility to provide and care for herself when she gets older. I use myself as an example; I pay my own way through this world, and I've worked for everything I have (which is quite a bit more).

 

My daughter will not grow up to be entitled. She will see her father be independent and work hard for his success without anyone to leech from him. She will pay her way, earn her own money, and not depend on anyone. She will learn how to respect men and not to use them as a meal ticket or a means to a better existence. If she wants a better existence, she will work for it.

 

And anyone who tries to influence her otherwise will fail, because I will always reinforce that her happiness and success is HER responsibility, and no one else's.

[sambolini]

We only get one life, and when you're taking those last breaths, what will you be thinking about? Your career? Your bank account?

 

I will be thinking about my happiness. I will not sacrifice my happiness for anyone. I will to a certain degree for my daughter, but even that has limits. Case in point: she has said multiple times that she wishes her mom and I would get back together. And I've told her each and every time it will not happen. I'm happier being divorced. I won't sacrifice that. The price I'd be asked to pay is just too high.

 

I only get one life. I will not sacrifice that for a woman.

[thefooloftheyear]

What would be "fair" to you?

 

For a wife to give 20 years of her life to taking care of a man's home and children, and supporting him through school and career changes so he could become more successful, then having her go out and get a minimum wage job when they divorce so that he can live the high life on the salary he built with her support?

 

Yes, there are situations where the wife takes the husband to the cleaners. But lately I am seeing lots of stories about how husbands feel the wife isn't entitled to ANY of the money simply because her contribution wasn't financial, and I don't agree with that at all.

 

-----

 

So let's say a couple gets together in their early 20s. They both have "traditional values" and plan for him to become a doctor, while she will be a SAHM and household manager. This is what they both want.

 

While he goes to school and works part time, she works retail to make ends meet. When he graduates, they have a child and she quits her job. She continues to do things like in-home child care and crafting and such to bring some money in while he is stepping up to his career, but it isn't much.

 

Things get better financially. He is hired by a hospital, and they have enough to live on without her financial help. They have another child. She does a great job of managing the household, keeping things clean, teaching the kids, making meals. Life is great for everyone.

 

After a few years, he decides to start his own practice. This is scary because of the risk involved, but she supports his dream. They get an equity loan on their home. They cash in the 401K. She goes in and sets up the bookkeeping for him. Helps him hire a team. Takes care of things behind the scenes while he is obsessed with building his practice. Goes without romance and love and friendship in support of him and his career.

 

Things continue to go upward. They have another child. His practice is flourishing. Things become VERY good financially. He's finally able to pay off his student loans. He plays golf on weekends knowing his children and home are taken care of. She shops with friends on weekends, knowing that the bills are taken care of and that she can afford this fun day of shopping.

 

Both of them work hard for the life they have - in very different ways. Both of them have built their success, and neither could have done it without the other.

 

Now it is 20 years in. For the sake of argument, let's say this divorce is nobody's "fault". No affairs or abuse or anything like that. Both of them are just lonely and realize they want different types of relationships. There is no animosity, no anger, no arguing. They just both want OUT. At this point, he is making $300K a year. She is making ZERO.

 

What should she get? What would be "fair" to you?

 

Its all speculation(for her)...

 

The reality is that he probably would have made even more money if he had no kids and was single...And if she wasn't J-Lo or Serena Williams, there really is no proof she'd have anything more of a career than retail..

 

And maybe women should opt out of SAHM for the right to be able to establish their own careers/lives..And many do...

 

I realize its a broad generalization based on a hypothetical...I guess once I start hearing guys saying "I am gonna take her to the cleaners", then Ill start believing the system is equitable...Ive just seen a lot of guys completely gutted from divorces...I even know a guy thats still paying alimony today, and he got divorced in 1982...When is it enough?

 

FTY

[BlueIris]

The Facebook CEO suggested that the granddaughters “be the nerd” at school, rather than just aspire to date one.

 

Look at who Zuckerberg, Jobs or Gates married- not women who think like that grandmother. All married very accomplished, dynamic women.

 

I do think that is a problem today and probably adds to the number of divorces. When my wife and I married, I thought forever, divorce was not an option. We did both come from parents with long term traditional marriages.

…

I would hope income or profession not be a primary driver in finding a mate. I do think the geeks, and from reading these forums there are probably quite a few here having trouble finding a lady, are often a good catch and often over looked.

 

John, Surely you remember how outspoken Abigail was about property rights and marriage! :laugh:

 

Money and property rights have historically been a huge part of marriage, factored in and discussed at marriage. It’s the aversion to acknowledging that and being candid about it that is new- especially among those who think that feelings, love, sex, and attraction are the only or the superior foundations for marriage. I could never be with someone who doesn’t discuss the financial element of marriage. I see it as childish and Disney-fairy-tale-ish.

[Gloria25]

I would advise my the females in my family to steer clear from any Jobs, Zuckerberg, and Gates. Why? Cuz they are not "geniuses". Their success had IMO, a bit of "right place/time" and them taking advantage of certain things/people.

 

Zuckerberg is rich cuz he's selling our info and looks like the US govt is his main "customer". Recently he and Obama were at some conference in Panama where Zuckerberg wants "free Internet" to peeps living in the boonies. I wonder why? Oh, so he can help keep track of them too. If sites like Facebook were some element of smarts then MySpace's creator would've made it before Zuckerberg.

 

Also, isn't it true that he stole ideas from friends or something to create Facebook? I haven't seen the movie, but heard of it.

 

Bill Gates. He's no genius either. Microsoft is crap. We're stuck with it cuz of licensing. You can't do a thing w/o having it involving Microsoft OS and stuff.

 

Lastly, Steve Jobs. Uh, he was a jerk who was difficult to work with/for. So much he got kicked out of the company he created.

 

Oh, and like his duchey dad, he abandoned the kid he had with some shack-up gf. I couldn't stomach dating a guy who neglected his kids. Not sure if Jobs married after the shack-up gf, but if he did, she has no shame to get with such a douche to his kids.

 

The only thing I give Zuckerberg and Gates for is marrying women who had their stuff together. They weren't in search of an escape from college/careers. They weren't looking for sn ATM. They really don't "need" Gates/Zuckerberg's money. They aren't bimbos like Kardashians either.

 

See, men like Gates/Zuckerberg have "wealth" cuz they make wise decisions - even when it comes to picking a spouse. Unlike "rich" guys (ie Kanye West, who the day he can't sing will lose everything) who go for bimbos and pretty faces.

 

Despite Gates and Zuckerberg's good taste in wives, I still couldn't see myself with someone cuz how they got their money is more important to me than how much.

 

Yes, it is wise for a woman who wants to have a family to seek a good provider, but unfortunately in this day/age we still have lazy women who default into motherhood/marriage. Some even go to college to waste time and give the "impression" that they got ambitions, but the day they meet their "patsy/sucker" that diploma is in the trash. Worst, these women are the ones definitely not marriage material. They stay home, get fat and lazy. They have no hobbies, ambitions, etc. And are quick to throw the kid in dad's arms yelling how they are frustrated all day that they're stuck home with the kids and how he needs to "pull his shift of daycare".