this is getting intense

[tuxedo cat]

I met this guy off Tinder almost two weeks ago. There are some things about him that concern me. I'd like to hear opinions on whether I should move forward with him. *This is not the comedian I mentioned in another thread (we haven't met yet).*

 

This guy wasn't my usual type physically, but I was won over by his entertaining pre-date texts. We had good rapport and common interests. Leading up to the date I had some doubts because his humor was extremely self deprecating and I got the sense he was pretty insecure. We finally met at a bar one night last week.

 

Although he was very chatty he seemed a tad standoffish at first, not making great eye contact or really connecting. It wasn't to the point of rudeness, just a noticeable difference from the other guys I'd met. At first I thought he didn't like me but in retrospect I think he was just nervous and a little defensive, expecting to be rejected. We met up for a second date a few days later (we saw a movie and had dinner after) and this time I felt comfortable enough to invite him back to my place.

 

When we got into bed together, he was reluctant to take off his pants, and when he finally did, I discovered why. I guess he has struggled with impotency for a few years (he's early-to-mid thirties). He was extremely embarrassed about it. I told him it wasn't a big deal and we cuddled for awhile before he left. On his way out he said "I should probably leave because I don't want to get too clingy...I know that turns girls off." One concerning thing was he would interpret every little thing I did as rejecting and get defensive. I had to keep reassuring him that I liked him.

 

Despite the dismal end to our second date I wanted to see him again. He's smart and funny and he was more open with me about his flaws than other guys I've met have been. He's also more communicative and persistent. Since that first date he's been texting me every day, sometimes for hours (I'm in another city visiting my family through new years). He is eager to see me again and has said he likes me. But there are things about him that worry me. He's very insecure, keeps questioning my interest, is jealous of other guys, is bitter about his past dating experiences, and seems wary of relationships. I'm going to transcribe part of a conversation we had because I worry if I paraphrase I'll get the tone wrong. His rant at the very bottom is especially worrisome, but I can't tell if I'm overreacting.

 

Me: I was just thinking about how I wished we had finished the other night.

Him: Oh word? Did someone else finish the job for me since then? (*gross can't believe he asked me t hat)

Me: No, you're the last one I was with.

Him: Are you honestly a hook up person? No judgments.

Me: No. I guess I'm looking for a relationship.

Him: I like that you were thinking about us even if it was bad the other night. Lol, you guess? I thought you were bad ass like that girl? (he's referring to a show we both watched where I said I could relate to the girl)

Me: No, I do...I just hesitate to admit to guy sometimes. Not in that respect. Why what do you want?

Him: You seem like a good person, though. She isn't. They don't really write her any "redeeming qualities" scenes.

Me: That's true.

Him: She doesn't babysit foster cats.

Me: Yeah, I guess I'm a better person.

Him: Though thank God they were cats. If they were foster kids, gross....I don't know what I want anymore honestly.

Me: Hm.

Him: I really want to buckle down and focus hard on my career. Dating is a distraction. So I'm not trying to really date that much. Present company excluded of course.

Me: Maybe we shouldn't hang out again then?

Him: Why? I said that doesn't apply to you.

Me: Ok

Him: I of course wouldn't pass up on someone cool. I'm just a little worried as I said about my health (he's referring to his impotence).

Me: Yeah.

Him: Getting attached to someone and losing them cause I can't be a normal young guy.

Me: It actually doesn't matter much to me for what it's worth.

Him: Why though?

Me: For me getting off is more psychological.

Him: Most girls have been patient when it was bad...but every psychologists says how important sexual fulfillment is, how it's essential to happiness.

Me: That's not how I get off.

Him: That's cool. Well I think you noticed but I am a little out of it now. But I'm going to put the effort in cause it's not your problem.

Me: Okay. But I'm hesitant now because it sounds like you might not be open to a relationship if we clicked.

Him: I didn't say that. I was talking about in general - like I'm not serial dating and actively trying to push that like a lot of people do.

Me: Right

Him: I just don't want to get into situations my friends are in. Well the one about to move in with me is now out of it thank god. But a lot of relationships go the way of the girl making a lot of demands and getting controlling.

Me: That's not how I am with guys.

Him: I know. At least from what I can tell so far.

Me: If anything sometimes I'm too far in the other direction.

Him: I don't know though the last girl I dated presented herself as a totally open kind of girl. But then all of a sudden down the road had something to say about everything. Like it got so bad she was making things up. With me I'm nice but the second someone tries to pull that kind of nonsense they learn I'm not so nice and only nice to people who deserve it. It's just everyone I know in relationships, no matter how sophisticated the girl, there is a ton of power play manipulation going on, constantly testing the guy. Where it's like I take my aggressiveness out on the real world. I exert myself on taking what I want in the real world. And am fine with competition. And no one intimidates me. The president himself wouldn't. When I'm with my girl that's the last thing I want to be thinking about. I shouldn't have to prove my physical strength or dominance on my girl. What is the challenge. It's supposed to be the one place you don't have to deal with the real world. Where let's be real you are tested everyday and no one gives a fck about anyone. I'm honestly borderline sociopathic when it comes to work. I put on an act. Say what I need to get what I want. And don't care at all about anyone else's benefit unless it benefits me. Because I know no one will do the same for me. Only guys who are nothing or too scared of the real world feel the need to exert power over their girl.

 

What do you guys think? I'm getting a PUA, bitter "nice guy" vibe.

Edited December 26, 2015 by tuxedo cat

[smackie9]

The guy is damaged, and is hell bent on sabotaging anything good that comes along.

 

Don't waste your time. Tip: don't date to fix someone. he's a hot mess!

[losangelena]

Him: I don't know though the last girl I dated presented herself as a totally open kind of girl. But then all of a sudden down the road had something to say about everything. Like it got so bad she was making things up. With me I'm nice but the second someone tries to pull that kind of nonsense they learn I'm not so nice and only nice to people who deserve it. It's just everyone I know in relationships, no matter how sophisticated the girl, there is a ton of power play manipulation going on, constantly testing the guy. Where it's like I take my aggressiveness out on the real world. I exert myself on taking what I want in the real world. And am fine with competition. And no one intimidates me. The president himself wouldn't. When I'm with my girl that's the last thing I want to be thinking about. I shouldn't have to prove my physical strength or dominance on my girl. What is the challenge. It's supposed to be the one place you don't have to deal with the real world. Where let's be real you are tested everyday and no one gives a fck about anyone. I'm honestly borderline sociopathic when it comes to work. I put on an act. Say what I need to get what I want. And don't care at all about anyone else's benefit unless it benefits me. Because I know no one will do the same for me. Only guys who are nothing or too scared of the real world feel the need to exert power over their girl.

 

What do you guys think? I'm getting a PUA, bitter "nice guy" vibe.

 

He doth protest too much, methinks.

[dobielover]

I think he's insecure and this won't work, and I think you're not being sincere and honest with him, and maybe other guys, out the gate in what you're looking for, and using your sexuality as a power play.

[smackie9]

TiP: when you keep having to reassuring him, you enable his insecure behavior to continue into a vicious cycle that will never end.

[tuxedo cat]

I think he's insecure and this won't work, and I think you're not being sincere and honest with him, and maybe other guys, out the gate in what you're looking for, and using your sexuality as a power play.

 

I was honest with him about wanting a relationship.

[tuxedo cat]

The guy is damaged, and is hell bent on sabotaging anything good that comes along.

 

Don't waste your time. Tip: don't date to fix someone. he's a hot mess!

 

I agree that he's damaged but I'm wondering if I should be more tolerant of baggage since I have my own insecurities and baggage too? I'm just not as vocal about my flaws.

[tuxedo cat]

I think he's insecure and this won't work, and I think you're not being sincere and honest with him, and maybe other guys, out the gate in what you're looking for, and using your sexuality as a power play.

 

Actually maybe I misread your post. Honest with him in what sense?

[xcupid]

I'm honestly borderline sociopathic when it comes to work. I put on an act. Say what I need to get what I want. And don't care at all about anyone else's benefit unless it benefits me. Because I know no one will do the same for me. Only guys who are nothing or too scared of the real world feel the need to exert power over their girl.

 

 

You might not have a problem with his impotency but he sure does. And he needs lots of reassurance - not a good quality either. Makes one wonder whether his "borderline sociopathic" tendency with work carries over to relationships as well? Caution flag is waving a lot on this one.

[tuxedo cat]

You might not have a problem with his impotency but he sure does. And he needs lots of reassurance - not a good quality either. Makes one wonder whether his "borderline sociopathic" tendency with work carries over to relationships as well? Caution flag is waving a lot on this one.

 

My friend had the same thought about the borderline sociopathic tendency. It's actually the second time he's applied that term to himself. The first he joked that he was a sociopath, which gave me pause because it came out as a non sequitur.

 

What's a bit alarming, and probably a sign of my own baggage, is that my attraction to him is stronger than it was with the other three I met. I guess it feels nice to get a lot of attention after dating a few lukewarm guys who barely communicated between dates. Unfortunately in his case it may be a sign of his own instability, but I think the right guy would also express healthy, consistent interest after a couple of dates. It really, really turns me on when a guy isn't afraid to tell me that he likes me. I also like the fact that he has the balls to express strong opinions. The other guys I met were very wishy-washy and evasive, which I didn't like.

 

So in sum I recognize the red flags and will be extremely cautious. If he ramps up the crazy in the next few days I'll have to cancel our next date.

[tuxedo cat]

He's been calling and texting me every day while we've been on vacation and we seem to be getting closer. Some new developments in our conversation:

 

Me: I wish we were together now.

Him: I wish we were together too. You're very patient.

Me: Aw. Well, I like you.

Him: And very non narcissistic which is rare these days.

Me: Yeah

Him: I'm usually doing most of the listening. I like you too. Of course. Btw I did think about something we talked about last time...I definitely am open to a relationship with you if we get there.

Me: I like how direct and open you are compared to most guys.

Him: I think you can do better, though.

Me: Oh come on. You're so down on yourself.

Him: I'm just honest. And you were chasing a doctor lol.

Me: He sent me dick picks...:/

Him: I bet there are others.

Me: Yeah but for some reason I only felt a connection to you.

Him: You have self destructive tendencies.

Me: What? Nah. You just seem real.

Him: I'm sure your mom and dad would rather you end up with a doctor. Okay, I'll be really honest here. It's not me being down on myself. I am unique and real. I get that. And it sometimes strikes a heavy chord in girls. They get super into me quickly, some super extreme...but then when the idealism wears off it's like waking up next to a stranger for them.

Later on...

Him: The more I talk to you the more I like you. I feel like you're a friend too now. Which is strange, because we went in reverse. But I like that.

 

I'm noticing myself develop feelings for him but it's so early. We've only been on two dates and most of our conversation has been while I've been on vacation. I have concerns about how insecure he is, but so far he's a lot less judgmental than the other guys I've dated - he doesn't care about the fact that I'm shy and slow to open up and even appreciates that I'm a good listener. He consistently stays in touch, which is very important to me as well. And we share a sense of humor and worldview. Should I give him a chance despite the red flags?

Edited December 31, 2015 by tuxedo cat

[Versacehottie]

I don't see why you shouldn't give him a chance. I'm with you though. The level of insecurity is not attractive. It's like he's put you on a pedestal via saying he sucks. Keep your eye on that. I think insecurity of that level tends to rear it's ugly head. It's no fun to keep reassuring someone and after a while there is the obvious danger that you will see the point to what he has been saying all along. Well I kinda see the point now. It would be hard to stay interested in someone who didn't act like he had the confidence to outright date me. Giving me up to other guys due to occupation or whatever. But glad the rest is going well. good luck

[TheTraveler]

That guy is a hot plate full of mess.

[MzLady]

Run... Or you will spend your entire relationship reassuring him and playing to his major issues... And I'm not even talking about the impotency.

 

Best of luck to you

[tuxedo cat]

My heart and head are duking it out with this guy. We had a two hour phone chat followed by a three hour text conversation. It became really intimate. He told me about his mother's death when he was young, how he spent two years caring for her and stayed by her side, and how he has this protective instinct towards a lot of women in his life because of what happened to her. I really don't think he told me this as a manipulative ploy. It just came out in the course of the conversation because I asked how she died. After telling me about her death he was worried he had been too vulnerable with me and urged me not to connect with him over tragedy because it's not healthy. He said he's starting to feel attached to me and really likes me a lot and it scares him because we've only seen each other twice. He said to me "My heart says I wanna cuff you. My head says easy homey." Most of our communication has been over this break while I've been away. I was in this situation with a guy once before, although in that case we had never actually met before we started talking. Needless to say that didn't end well. So I'm scared. We definitely need to slow things down. I will say in comparison to the situation with that other guy, this guy seems to be a better person. The way he cared for and talked about his mother, my ex was incapable of. And he has a lot of friends and seems to get along well with people. I know he's kind of a mess but I'm going to give him a chance. He makes me feel something, which is rare.

[clia]

I think it's a bad idea to be having intimate, lengthy text and phone conversations with this guy at this point. You've only been out with him twice! I get that you've been out of town, but in my opinion it's too much. How do you have five hours to spend on the phone and texting with him? Go shopping or something, lol!

 

Is this normal for you? I don't understand why you are sharing certain things with him -- about other guys you are dating (no wonder he feels insecure), that you wish you were with him and you like him (ack, you've only met him twice), etc. None of this behavior (including inviting him over for sex on date 2) is consistent with a girl who is allegedly shy. You seem like you are coming on very strong to me, at least based on what you've posted.

 

When is your next date with him?

[blueskyday]

I think you need to dial this down. Stop having these talks with him. Stop getting intimate so quickly. Go spend some time together doing things. How about going out on some more dates? Enjoy getting to know each other at a slower pace. I can't even believe that a guy with impotency issues would hop into bed on a second date. A lot of times, this type of problem is an emotional and intimacy issue.

 

He sounds insecure, hurt and scared. A lot of us are. The question becomes is this a situational and temporary issue with him that can be overcome, or is is deeper and a mental health disorder?

 

If you move ahead, go slowly and increase intimacy slowly. He will feel more secure, and you will better be able to protect yourself. You will be abLe to watch for signs of which direction things are going: healthyville or crazytown.

 

Be careful here.

[Versacehottie]

My heart and head are duking it out with this guy. We had a two hour phone chat followed by a three hour text conversation. It became really intimate. He told me about his mother's death when he was young, how he spent two years caring for her and stayed by her side, and how he has this protective instinct towards a lot of women in his life because of what happened to her. I really don't think he told me this as a manipulative ploy. It just came out in the course of the conversation because I asked how she died. After telling me about her death he was worried he had been too vulnerable with me and urged me not to connect with him over tragedy because it's not healthy. He said he's starting to feel attached to me and really likes me a lot and it scares him because we've only seen each other twice. He said to me "My heart says I wanna cuff you. My head says easy homey." Most of our communication has been over this break while I've been away. I was in this situation with a guy once before, although in that case we had never actually met before we started talking. Needless to say that didn't end well. So I'm scared. We definitely need to slow things down. I will say in comparison to the situation with that other guy, this guy seems to be a better person. The way he cared for and talked about his mother, my ex was incapable of. And he has a lot of friends and seems to get along well with people. I know he's kind of a mess but I'm going to give him a chance. He makes me feel something, which is rare.

 

Well I bolded one obvious part of the problem about this much contact and intensity too soon. How do you "slow down" without that act in itself causing more problems (miscommunication, one person or the other feeling let down based on previous level on contact)? The best solution is not to ramp up to an intense level and so much contact UNTIL you are sure you won't need to ramp back down.

 

In some ways having the deep (text?) conversation about his mom seems like you "got somewhere" but in reality think of how much better it could have been for real bonding if that had happened in person? I still think you should move forward with him until he proves you shouldn't anymore. Just realize that doing intense stuff like this ups the ante a lot and it can kind of be a false sense of intensity. Good luck

[tuxedo cat]

I think it's a bad idea to be having intimate, lengthy text and phone conversations with this guy at this point. You've only been out with him twice! I get that you've been out of town, but in my opinion it's too much. How do you have five hours to spend on the phone and texting with him? Go shopping or something, lol!

 

Is this normal for you? I don't understand why you are sharing certain things with him -- about other guys you are dating (no wonder he feels insecure), that you wish you were with him and you like him (ack, you've only met him twice), etc. None of this behavior (including inviting him over for sex on date 2) is consistent with a girl who is allegedly shy. You seem like you are coming on very strong to me, at least based on what you've posted.

 

When is your next date with him?

 

You're only seeing one side of the conversation. After our first date he asked me about my OLD experiences, he was talking about the horror stories his female friends have told him and I mentioned offhand a doctor who had sent me inappropriate photos unprompted a couple of months back. The affectionate things he had already volunteered first, that he missed me and liked me. I would say we're both getting carried away and coming on a little strong.

 

As for shyness, anyone who gets to know me well quickly learns that it's on the surface. I tend to be pretty assertive and direct once I feel comfortable around someone.

[tuxedo cat]

I think you need to dial this down. Stop having these talks with him. Stop getting intimate so quickly. Go spend some time together doing things. How about going out on some more dates? Enjoy getting to know each other at a slower pace. I can't even believe that a guy with impotency issues would hop into bed on a second date. A lot of times, this type of problem is an emotional and intimacy issue.

 

He sounds insecure, hurt and scared. A lot of us are. The question becomes is this a situational and temporary issue with him that can be overcome, or is is deeper and a mental health disorder?

 

If you move ahead, go slowly and increase intimacy slowly. He will feel more secure, and you will better be able to protect yourself. You will be abLe to watch for signs of which direction things are going: healthyville or crazytown.

 

Be careful here.

 

I agree but any suggestions on how? It's hard to go backwards without worrying him because he's insecure. What can I say/how can I act to slow things down?

[xxoo]

I agree but any suggestions on how? It's hard to go backwards without worrying him because he's insecure. What can I say/how can I act to slow things down?

 

Like blueskyday said, spend time together in person, doing things (not sex, not hours of talking about intimacies). Have experiences and laughs together.

 

You're a person who likes to spend a lot of time in your head, and he seems to be as well. Me too, so I get it. You both need someone to pull you OUT of your head. It's not healthy to be in there all the time, even though it's indulgent and feels good. The brain--and the relationship-- needs fresh air and ideas for health and balance.

[tuxedo cat]

Like blueskyday said, spend time together in person, doing things (not sex, not hours of talking about intimacies). Have experiences and laughs together.

 

You're a person who likes to spend a lot of time in your head, and he seems to be as well. Me too, so I get it. You both need someone to pull you OUT of your head. It's not healthy to be in there all the time, even though it's indulgent and feels good. The brain--and the relationship-- needs fresh air and ideas for health and balance.

 

I agree. Ideas for fun activities we could do together? I was thinking movie and dinner but that always feels more serious than fun to me.

[xxoo]

I agree. Ideas for fun activities we could do together? I was thinking movie and dinner but that always feels more serious than fun to me.

 

Laser tag, rock climbing, ice skating, cake decorating contests if you're comfortable being in an apt together and not having sex (maybe go a friend's apt and have contests with partners), frisbee golf (make up your own targets in the park), zumba class. Think active, not spectating. But attending an ice hockey game would be fun if you could swing it.

[tuxedo cat]

Laser tag, rock climbing, ice skating, cake decorating contests if you're comfortable being in an apt together and not having sex (maybe go a friend's apt and have contests with partners), frisbee golf (make up your own targets in the park), zumba class. Think active, not spectating. But attending an ice hockey game would be fun if you could swing it.

 

Ooo, laser tag and cake decorating sound fun. Hope he doesn't think the latter is too girly.

[tuxedo cat]

So back in town finally and meeting up with this guy again for our third date on Thursday.

 

I'm really nervous about seeing him because while I was out of town for the holidays we were talking over the phone and text almost every night (mostly initiated by him) and established a premature intimacy. I recognize it's unhealthy but I already have some feelings for him and he has feelings me. He is freaking out that he will ruin things somehow and I'll reject him. I'm freaking out that he'll reject me (but not being so vocal about it). He's said things like "I'm starting to really like you, I feel attached to you already and that scares me a little." He's also basically indicated he wants to "lock me down" so that we become exclusive but acknowledges that he has no claim on me yet. Meanwhile I'm still trying to see other guys because I recognize that there are some red flags here, but my heart is pulling me to him.

 

I'm going over to his place on Thursday night for a movie night, then we'll probably go out and do something this weekend. I'm nervous as hell. How do I diffused the high expectations we've already set up? My biggest fear is that he'll reject me.