Fixing Nice Guy Syndrome? ( help )

June 15, 2005

Exactly its like you flood them and they could care less.. Once

you tame it a little and slow down they seek it.

Ill have that book finished tonight and then im going to do

some re-reading in the areas that really pertained to me..

June 15, 2005

Originally posted by confused05
Exactly its like you flood them and they could care less.. Once
you tame it a little and slow down they seek it.

Ill have that book finished tonight and then im going to do
some re-reading in the areas that really pertained to me..

Definitely. Nothing says I am "worthless" than "begging, pleading and chasing" your S/O.

And nothing says "I'm well worth your time..." like NOT giving it to them

As far as re-reading, that's what I'm doing now. Well I am finishing up my "self confidence" book and then I'll go back over each of them until it's throughly planted in my subconcious and becomes my nature.

June 15, 2005

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC
As far as re-reading, that's what I'm doing now. Well I am finishing up my "self confidence" book and then I'll go back over each of them until it's throughly planted in my subconcious and becomes my nature.

June 15, 2005

How is the self confidence book? Alot of my nice guy problems seem to stem

from lack of self - confidence and or being insecure in my relationship. So if

you can recomeend any good reads on those areas that are easy to read

( not a big reader )

I would appreciate the info.

Its amazing at how honest a secure / confident person is. I cant wait to

be there 100% It also makes you feel better not worrying etc for no reason.

June 15, 2005

Originally posted by confused05
How is the self confidence book? Alot of my nice guy problems seem to stem
from lack of self - confidence and or being insecure in my relationship. So if
you can recomeend any good reads on those areas that are easy to read

( not a big reader )

I would appreciate the info.

Its amazing at how honest a secure / confident person is. I cant wait to
be there 100% It also makes you feel better not worrying etc for no reason.

So far it's working well. I posted which book it was in the the self-help forum under one of the threads about books. The things it focuses on are:

1. Accepting reality (vs your perception of reality)

2. Focusing on tackling your fears (accepting your emotions but not giving in to them.)

3. Accepting mistakes you've made but learning how to learn from them and not dwell or chastise yourself.

4. Getting in touch with your inner child/past.

5. Becoming responsible for your own happiness. (This is absolutely KEY!)

6. Building other's self esteem (And helps you in the process)

7. How to maintain balance (not go TOO far)

It has a lot of "Sentence completion" assignments that most people blow off. I did almost all of them (only a few I did not do.). Some of them would be (You must put down 6-10 stems on the end of each sentence):

"I like myself most when..."

"If I took more responsibility for my own happiness I would...."

"I like myself least when....."

"If I accepted things for what they really were instead of what I wanted them to be I would...."

"If I accepted my fear but did not give in to it I would...."

There are a LOT of these exercises but they help you visualize and come into understanding why you act the way you do and how to build up your own self-esteem and confidence. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is great for understanding some root causes of low self-esteem but alone I do not think it is sufficient to overcome it.

I believe that can only be achieved with lots of self-help books combined with good Counseling.

The books are a good start and get you off on the right track but to measure and be sure you're going in the right direction, a Counselor is best for that.

FWIW, I think the people here on LS are great but mind you a lot of the opinions here are skewed to one direction or the other depending on how jaded they are. I would not use LS alone as the only source of information for my recovery.

I think using LS combined with the Books and Counseling is the most effective way to get on the right track.

Cheers! I really am excited to hear about your progress.

June 17, 2005

Please do not take me as condescending. My post here is in stark contrast with most of the other's advice here. That is why I felt the need to post.

Tip number 1:

NEVER CHANGE YOURSELF FOR THE BENEFIT OF SOMEONE ELSE. Rather, only proceed with this measure if YOU are unhappy with yourself.

Tip number 2:

There is ALMOST no such thing as being too nice. Unless someone is taking advantage of you, YOU ARE NOT BEING TOO NICE.

June 17, 2005

Please do not take me as condescending. My post here is in stark contrast with most of the other's advice here. That is why I felt the need to post.

Tip number 1:

NEVER CHANGE YOURSELF FOR THE BENEFIT OF SOMEONE ELSE. Rather, only proceed with this measure if YOU are unhappy with yourself.

Tip number 2:

There is ALMOST no such thing as being too nice. Unless someone is taking advantage of you, YOU ARE NOT BEING TOO NICE.

I look at your situation this way: It's a short time into the relationship and she's already unhappy. This is your "red flag" so to speak. True love is one in which people are content with the way each other already are. If this girl really loved you for who you are she would not be trying to change you. Obviously you are not an a**h*** and treat her with as much respect as possible.

So what's the problem again?

It doesn't add up man. If she wants the "bad" guy (and that's obviously not you) then let her have it. She will have no problem finding it, although she will soon tire of it.

The one thing I do agree with everyone else on here is grow some balls. But not in the same respect as previously mentioned.

My bottom line adivce: If you like being nice and respectful to people, especially women then do not change and tell her she should be content with who you are. If she's not, is a sure sign there's no big picture in your future.

Just some advice from an a**h*** that has been through the ringer a few times.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by genuine_goals
Please do not take me as condescending. My post here is in stark contrast with most of the other's advice here. That is why I felt the need to post.

Tip number 1:

NEVER CHANGE YOURSELF FOR THE BENEFIT OF SOMEONE ELSE. Rather, only proceed with this measure if YOU are unhappy with yourself.

I've mentioned that a few times.

Tip number 2:

There is ALMOST no such thing as being too nice. Unless someone is taking advantage of you, YOU ARE NOT BEING TOO NICE.

You miss the definition of "nice guy." When we refer to "nice guy" we mean DOOR MAT.

I look at your situation this way: It's a short time into the relationship and she's already unhappy. This is your "red flag" so to speak. True love is one in which people are content with the way each other already are. If this girl really loved you for who you are she would not be trying to change you. Obviously you are not an a**h*** and treat her with as much respect as possible.

No.

Women want CALM, CONFIDENT, SELF-ASSURED and MASCULINE men. They don't want DOOR MATS ("Nice Guys"). She is doing him a GREAT FAVOR by saving him from losing what is left of his self-esteem and masculinity. He NEEDS to improve his self-esteem and has said that many times. THAT is what is killing him in this relationship. He isn't changing for her, he is improving his self-esteem.

Heck, I wish ALL women had the b*lls to communicate like this.

So what's the problem again?

It doesn't add up man. If she wants the "bad" guy (and that's obviously not you) then let her have it. She will have no problem finding it, although she will soon tire of it.

She doesn't want a "bad guy" she wants a self-assured and confident man. There's a big difference.

The one thing I do agree with everyone else on here is grow some balls. But not in the same respect as previously mentioned.

Right. You do that by becoming CALM, CONFIDENT, SELF-ASSURED and MASCULINE. Under no circumstances has anyone her suggested he become a 'bad guy."

My bottom line adivce: If you like being nice and respectful to people, especially women then do not change and tell her she should be content with who you are. If she's not, is a sure sign there's no big picture in your future.

You're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base here, bro.

Just some advice from an a**h*** that has been through the ringer a few times.

And doesn't quite "get it" yet....

June 17, 2005

Okay then, don't take my advice. I didn't think you would anyway.

In my opinion, my advice is the most sound so far.

The only time I ever became weary of my girlfriend's actions is when she was hiding something. For me, if i even feel the slightest need to keep tabs, that's my sign and I am out.

If you feel the need to keep tabs on her, maybe there's another reason? Like she's sneaky or seeing someone else? Just a possibility.

I really don't think your self confidence is the issue here. I personally think SHE should be the one reading the books. All to often others project their own shortcomings upon others, think about it and don't be a victim.

And don't forget - if you read it in a book, it MUST be right. a bit of sarcasm.

Trust me, it's a double edged sword - I know a lot of women that complain about the "controlling" boyfriend but they really thrive on it. And as soon as you stop asking where they are going, then you don't care anymore.

Bottom line: either way you're screwed. I give your relationship another year at the most.

Just my honest opinion from one human being to another.

To quote you:

"and still doesn't get it"

I get it all to well my friend. Do what you like but for me I change for no one. But then again I can't comprehend why or how anyone would let themselves be treated as a doormat. To me, bending to someone else's will (hence changing one's self at another's request) sounds more like being a doormat than anythign I have heard yet.

From what you state, you just sound like a nice guy - not a doormat.

You should drop the interrogation routine and don't make her feel guilty for spending time with friends. It's not a good personality trait. I will bet you if you do this though she will start to nag about feeling unappreciated or unwanted and that will give her an excuse to seek attention elsewhere.

I stick to my original predicition of less than a year.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by genuine_goals
Okay then, don't take my advice. I didn't think you would anyway.

No, we're interested, but I think you've misunderstand Confused's point

In my opinion, my advice is the most sound so far.

Now there's a surprise

I personally think SHE should be the one reading the books. All to often others project their own shortcomings upon others, think about it and don't be a victim.

Good point. But if we could make Confused's ex read a book on her shortcomings, we would. We can't. Confused is taking responsibility for what he can - himself.

Do what you like but for me I change for no one. But then again I can't comprehend why or how anyone would let themselves be treated as a doormat.

Actually, I think the point of all this is exactly to stop "nice guys" following their instincts to do whatever the girl wants. Instead they need to balance it by finding themselves and their own needs.

Apparently, you don't have this problem. Good for you! But this is why you don't understand it.

June 17, 2005

You miss the definition of "nice guy." When we refer to "nice guy" we mean DOOR MAT.

And that's why you will continue to get flack from the reader - that abuse of a perfectly good concept; 'nice guy'.

Remember that people tend to react to one behaviour by swinging too far the other way - they end up overcompensating.

In the end, the confident, self-assured man is never the guy who is asking himself 'how would a confident man act?' and then 'playing' masculine, though, precisely because the confident man isn't acting - he's being and doing without stopping to mentally check a checklist of 'what I should do so that I'll look confident'.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
In the end, the confident, self-assured man is never the guy who is asking himself 'how would a confident man act?' and then 'playing' masculine, though, precisely because the confident man isn't acting - he's being and doing without stopping to mentally check a checklist of 'what I should do so that I'll look confident'.

That is total bullshyt and you know it. I have met so many people who look very confident and "together" on the outside but on the inside they lack self-esteem and are questioning everything and are the antithesis of confidence. There are people like this all over the place and it is totally normal.

Yes, so there are many people who can pull off the "act"...

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
And that's why you will continue to get flack from the reader - that abuse of a perfectly good concept; 'nice guy'.

Or "strong woman" lol. I'm enjoying this epiphany...

June 17, 2005

You guys are way off.. Im changing myself to better myself and in return

its improving my relationship. Nobodys perfect neither is my girlfriend but

my few shortcommings that im fixing are helping greatly.. Confused is right

on point with his advice.

June 17, 2005

I have met so many people who look very confident and "together" on the outside but on the inside they lack self-esteem and are questioning everything and are the antithesis of confidence.

Um. I wasn't talking about people who 'look confident'. I was talking about people who ARE confident.

Im changing myself to better myself

And nobody has suggested you shouldn't. In fact, that's exactly what's been said - you do it for YOU.

Must be morning. Have some coffee, folks.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
Um. I wasn't talking about people who 'look confident'. I was talking about people who ARE confident.

what's the difference? perception=reality

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
And that's why you will continue to get flack from the reader - that abuse of a perfectly good concept; 'nice guy'.

I clarified it. But, there are lots of men here who think they are "nice" but are just door mats. So, I'll keep associating it but I will clarify it better by saying nice guy/door mat.

Remember that people tend to react to one behaviour by swinging too far the other way - they end up overcompensating.

Everyone does this? I don't think I have and neither does my Counselor. Last night she asked "Do you think you could have a healthy relationship with your Ex now, knowing what you do?"

My answer? "Me, sure. Her, probably not unless she really changed for the better." She agreed.

Confused05 isn't going to an extreme as far as I can tell. He's just working his bugs out. I wish my Ex had the communication skills that his has to be able to tell me my shortcomings and be honest with me. That's what I call GREAT communication. He didn't take it as an insult. He listened to her, evaluated her opinion and then acted on what he felt he needed the most improvement on.

I commend them both. That's a healthy attitude from them both.

In the end, the confident, self-assured man is never the guy who is asking himself 'how would a confident man act?'

No offense Moi, but you don't know a single thing about how "Confident, self-assured" men go about becoming confident and self-assured anymore than men know how women do it.

and then 'playing' masculine, though, precisely because the confident man isn't acting - he's being and doing without stopping to mentally check a checklist of 'what I should do so that I'll look confident'.

You couldn't be more wrong.

That's EXACTLY how you LEARN and get it to sink in. Men learn by the behaviors of other men and emulating that behavior. In every book I have read recently in regards to confidence, the most GLARINGLY common suggestion for "visualizing and understanding" what confidence looks like is to think of a MALE ROLE MODEL and EMULATE their behavior.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by genuine_goals
Okay then, don't take my advice. I didn't think you would anyway.

I hope he doesn't take it because the advice you gave is incorrect.

In my opinion, my advice is the most sound so far.

No, it's not. It couldn't be more wrong.

The only time I ever became weary of my girlfriend's actions is when she was hiding something. For me, if i even feel the slightest need to keep tabs, that's my sign and I am out.

If you feel the need to keep tabs on her, maybe there's another reason? Like she's sneaky or seeing someone else? Just a possibility.

It's a GLARING SIGN OF INSECURITY.

I really don't think your self confidence is the issue here.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you couldn't be more wrong.

I personally think SHE should be the one reading the books. All to often others project their own shortcomings upon others, think about it and don't be a victim.

She doesn't have a self-confidence issue. She's secure in herself and so much so that she understands how to communicate EFFECTIVELY with her significant other. She's a very mentally healthy girl. I wish I could find one like her.

And don't forget - if you read it in a book, it MUST be right. a bit of sarcasm.

Given they're written by PhD's, I'd take their opinion over yours.

Trust me,

What are your qualifications that Confused05 should take your advice over the advice of trained Psychologist?

it's a double edged sword - I know a lot of women that complain about the "controlling" boyfriend but they really thrive on it. And as soon as you stop asking where they are going, then you don't care anymore.

That might be true for you, but it's more a reflection on the kind of women a person with your personality attracts. In normal, healthy relationships you're not questionning everything your ex is doing because you trust them. Only when they do something to break the trust should you begin questionning their behavior.

Bottom line: either way you're screwed.

There's some screwing going on around here but I don't think Confused is the one on the receiving end....

I give your relationship another year at the most.

Wow, so not only in your mind are you more qualified than many PhD's, you can also predict the future.

Just my honest opinion from one human being to another.

I get it all to well my friend. Do what you like but for me I change for no one. But then again I can't comprehend why or how anyone would let themselves be treated as a doormat. To me, bending to someone else's will (hence changing one's self at another's request) sounds more like being a doormat than anythign I have heard yet.

Yeah, that's exactly how he was acting and his S/O had the wherewithal to tell him he needs to "man up" and that's exactly what he is doing.

From what you state, you just sound like a nice guy - not a doormat.

Again, you're wrong.

You should drop the interrogation routine and don't make her feel guilty for spending time with friends. It's not a good personality trait. I will bet you if you do this though she will start to nag about feeling unappreciated or unwanted and that will give her an excuse to seek attention elsewhere.

That behavior is indicative of low self-esteem, confidence and what we all know as a door mat. It's not HER problem that he is insecure. He needs to address his insecurities and your advice will only serve to damage their relationship more.

I stick to my original predicition of less than a year.

I'd give him less than a year if he takes ANY of your advice....

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by confused05
You guys are way off.. Im changing myself to better myself and in return
its improving my relationship. Nobodys perfect neither is my girlfriend but
my few shortcommings that im fixing are helping greatly.. Confused is right
on point with his advice.

Just keep doing what you're doing. As you become more calm, confident, self-assured and masculine you will be able to address your girlfriend's shortcomings.

I'm very excited for your progress. Did you look into getting any books on self-confidence?

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC
Just keep doing what you're doing. As you become more calm, confident, self-assured and masculine you will be able to address your girlfriend's shortcomings.

I'm very excited for your progress. Did you look into getting any books on self-confidence?

Everything is starting to improve day by day.. Theres still days of the old

habits slipping up but they have died down drastically. I am going to head

to barnes and noble tonight to take a look see. Ill keep you guys posted.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by confused05
Everything is starting to improve day by day.. Theres still days of the old
habits slipping up but they have died down drastically. I am going to head
to barnes and noble tonight to take a look see. Ill keep you guys posted.

One more book recommendation: "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: A Practical Guide for Improving Communication and Getting What You Want in Your Relationships." by John Gray.

My counselor suggested this book to me in order to help me understand women better. If you're headed there might as well pick this one up too. As you can tell, I am big proponent of reading as much as you can. It's a lot to soak up but you and I needed the "crash" course

Good for you, man. I am really proud of you.

June 17, 2005

Okay, apparently confused in OC IS the ONLY one here worthy of advice. I did not say I have mulitple degrees or am more intelligent than anyone. You just ASSUMED that because you are the defensive.

All I said was DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING just because some one wrote a book.

I can honestly say that I know many people with degrees who are total idiots. Just because you have a degree does not mean you are intelligent.

Example: Dr. Phil - nothing more than a mediocre attention grabbing Oprah spin off, yet millions of Americans follow him like a herd of sheep.

It's SIMPLE - If she doesn't like you for who you are then boot her.

If you follow my adivce your relationship will be over in a year - you're exactly right. Hence, my point to begin with.

Bottom line - There's nothing wrong with you - you are a cool guy and you are going to let some girl change you. Too bad... mark one up as a loss for masculinity.

By the way, I do have A degree.

June 17, 2005

It's a GLARING SIGN OF INSECURITY.

I hardly ever have given a girlfriend a guilt trip in this manner. It's hardly a sign of insecurity if you begin to question her actions at times. I have another term for it: REALITY

All I can say that for myself, if I ever had to think twice about what my girlfriend was doing it was usually because there was a valid reason to. Not saying there definately is, but there's a good chance.

One thing I can assure you, this girl is not the perfect little angel you think she is. It's written all over her behavior.

Take confused in oc's advice and you will find yourself to have wasted time with this girl.

Let her go. Life's too short.

June 17, 2005

Originally posted by genuine_goals
Take confused in oc's advice and you will find yourself to have wasted time with this girl.

I agree

June 18, 2005

Originally posted by genuine_goals
I hardly ever have given a girlfriend a guilt trip in this manner. It's hardly a sign of insecurity if you begin to question her actions at times. I have another term for it: REALITY

Do you understand the difference between:

a) Pointedly asking relevant questions and...

b) Questioning everything your S/O is doing to the point of annoying them?

If you don't, then you don't understand the difference between insecurity and confidence.

All I can say that for myself, if I ever had to think twice about what my girlfriend was doing it was usually because there was a valid reason to. Not saying there definately is, but there's a good chance.

In Confused's case, he fully admits that his questioning was based on his own insecurities.

One thing I can assure you, this girl is not the perfect little angel you think she is. It's written all over her behavior.

On what basis? How did you come up with this assumption? Did you question her directly? Do you know her. What DO you know about her other than what Confused has said?

Take confused in oc's advice and you will find yourself to have wasted time with this girl.

Communication issues are usually the most glaring weaknesses in any relationship. Confused's insecurities are causing him to be unable to trust his G/F. He has never said that she's done anything that SHOULD cause him to distrust her. It's his own clingyness and insecurities that are casing the riff in his relationship.

He wants to try and work it out, she wants to try and work it out. Who the heck are YOU to tell them otherwise?

Let her go. Life's too short.

Definitely too short to listen to your ill-advised and heavily skewed advice.

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