Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 I don't think we know this for sure. I asked the OP above whether he was asking her out with notice (i.e. a few days in advance) or at the last minute and he hasn't responded. He's been dating her for three weeks smack in the middle of holiday season and she's still managed to see him twice a week, which many people in this thread seem to agree is a normal amount to see someone at this stage of the game. I think that's pretty good! People are busy this time of year with holiday parties, Christmas shopping, and other plans. I suspect she already had a lot on her calendar by the time they started dating. If he's asking her out at the last minute, it's not surprising she has plans already. That's not a rejection of him or not making herself available for him. She's living her life. But, I have no idea since for whatever reason the OP didn't seem to want to answer my question. (Which leads me to think he is doing a lot of last minute "Do you want to have dinner tonight?" type of asking out.) OP, care to answer? Why not plan the next date when the two of you are together? But again, I think twice a week seems fine. I don't understand why so many people seem to think she's not interested in him even though she's having sex with him and seeing him twice a week. She doesn't do planning or use a calendar, she's a "day to day" kinda girl. I tried planning a trip to Montreal with her and she kept saying planning this far ahead was out of the question. Because of this, I tend to suggest things on the spot. Rarely works out.
clia Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 She doesn't do planning or use a calendar, she's a "day to day" kinda girl. I tried planning a trip to Montreal with her and she kept saying planning this far ahead was out of the question. Because of this, I tend to suggest things on the spot. Rarely works out. So if you said on Wednesday "Let's have dinner on Saturday" she wouldn't answer and you'd have to wait until Saturday for her to decide what she wants to do? I would get really annoyed by a person like this. 1
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 You've only been dating her for three weeks. It's fairly normal for the guy to take the lead in the early stages of the relationship as far as communication and planning dates. And to be fair to her, she did tell you she needs her space. **She doesn't sound like a woman who is going to be calling and texting you on a daily basis. If that's the type of woman you want, then you should probably find someone else. ^^ I think that is exactly what we have been saying. He needs lots of togetherness .....she needs distance. They are a mis-match and he needs to find someone who is either more interested in him ...so as to not make it so difficult to schedule a date .....or someone on the same page as him. Okie, I have said enough..... Again good luck going forward OP.
smackie9 Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 This isn't a "relationship" you are just going out on "dates"....there is a big difference.....one is not a commitment, so she isn't obligated to follow up with texting or anything else. 1
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 So if you said on Wednesday "Let's have dinner on Saturday" she wouldn't answer and you'd have to wait until Saturday for her to decide what she wants to do? I would get really annoyed by a person like this. Basically, yes, she'd make a final decision on Saturday.
smackie9 Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 ^^ I think that is exactly what we have been saying. He needs lots of togetherness .....she needs distance. They are a mis-match and he needs to find someone who is either more interested in him ...so as to not make it so difficult to schedule a date .....or someone on the same page as him. Okie, I have said enough..... Again good luck going forward OP. Needing advanced notice all the time is a sign of a multi dater or someone that is already in a relationship or her priorities are elsewhere.
insert_name Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 I don't think we know this for sure. I asked the OP above whether he was asking her out with notice (i.e. a few days in advance) or at the last minute and he hasn't responded. He's been dating her for three weeks smack in the middle of holiday season and she's still managed to see him twice a week, which many people in this thread seem to agree is a normal amount to see someone at this stage of the game. I think that's pretty good! People are busy this time of year with holiday parties, Christmas shopping, and other plans. I suspect she already had a lot on her calendar by the time they started dating. If he's asking her out at the last minute, it's not surprising she has plans already. That's not a rejection of him or not making herself available for him. She's living her life. But, I have no idea since for whatever reason the OP didn't seem to want to answer my question. (Which leads me to think he is doing a lot of last minute "Do you want to have dinner tonight?" type of asking out.) OP, care to answer? Why not plan the next date when the two of you are together? But again, I think twice a week seems fine. I don't understand why so many people seem to think she's not interested in him even though she's having sex with him and seeing him twice a week. Fair points and that question does need to be clarified. Again, i can only draw on my own exoerience but I do not see continued intimacy as proof of anything. The girl I was dating was happy to turn up and be intimate despite seeming like her heart wasn't into it the rest of the time. This was strange for me as I have always believed that women are fundamentally different to men and so reserve intimacynfor people they are really serious about. We live in interesting times these days though and it seems that women like to have sex with whoever whenever for no other reason than they can. That is why I think it is far more telling what happens between dates than what goes on during them. He arranges the dates and she turns up- great. So that means he is supposed to overlook the time when he didn't arrnge anything and he never heard from her? Big red flag IMO right there. To keep to 2 dates a week over christmas is pretty good but again I can totally see that there is an issue if it feels like only one party is driving this thing forward. We shall see what OP comes back with about the amount of notice that was given. I would have thought it would have been worthy of mention if it was last minute offers as that would be a perfectly feasible reason for her unavailability without even needing to put it on a public forum! Out of interest OP is there any emotional connection or is it mostly about physical intimacy on the dates? In other words is she giving much of herself away when you see her? She might just be after sex in which case having dates set up is probably not the worst thing in the world for her so long as she doesn't have to get into any deep and meaningful discussions that could result in a connection being made. But she is not so fussed about the physical stuff for her to want to pick up a phone and put herself out there by arrangingnthe next meeting.
clia Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Needing advanced notice all the time is a sign of a multi dater or someone that is already in a relationship or her priorities are elsewhere. Or it's the sign of a person who has a full life. Don't you make plans with friends, family, co-workers, yourself, etc? I was never just sitting around at home hoping some guy would call up and ask me out. Regardless, the OP's woman doesn't seem to require advanced planning. She just wants to decide at the last minute what she feels like doing. Yuck. 1
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Basically, yes, she'd make a final decision on Saturday. Right... and assuming she did not receive a better offer ....she'd accept. Sounds fun.
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 Fair points and that question does need to be clarified. Again, i can only draw on my own exoerience but I do not see continued intimacy as proof of anything. The girl I was dating was happy to turn up and be intimate despite seeming like her heart wasn't into it the rest of the time. This was strange for me as I have always believed that women are fundamentally different to men and so reserve intimacynfor people they are really serious about. We live in interesting times these days though and it seems that women like to have sex with whoever whenever for no other reason than they can. That is why I think it is far more telling what happens between dates than what goes on during them. He arranges the dates and she turns up- great. So that means he is supposed to overlook the time when he didn't arrnge anything and he never heard from her? Big red flag IMO right there. To keep to 2 dates a week over christmas is pretty good but again I can totally see that there is an issue if it feels like only one party is driving this thing forward. We shall see what OP comes back with about the amount of notice that was given. I would have thought it would have been worthy of mention if it was last minute offers as that would be a perfectly feasible reason for her unavailability without even needing to put it on a public forum! Out of interest OP is there any emotional connection or is it mostly about physical intimacy on the dates? In other words is she giving much of herself away when you see her? She might just be after sex in which case having dates set up is probably not the worst thing in the world for her so long as she doesn't have to get into any deep and meaningful discussions that could result in a connection being made. But she is not so fussed about the physical stuff for her to want to pick up a phone and put herself out there by arrangingnthe next meeting. Honestly, I have the time of my life everytime I see her and it seems reciprocal. I joke a lot and she's laughing the entire time. The physical aspect is icing on the cake.
Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 she sounds like someone who hasn't been in a relationship in a really long time and has built this independence and social activities to build her life. Which is great. A lot of men are really attracted to life-loving, independent women. I think you sound like the kind of guy who falls for woman easily. After three weeks saying you are deeply attracted to her is reasonable, love? not so much. That would freak me out. After three weeks of getting to know someone i don't think I would want to make things official either. I think she just wants to get to know you slowly. And what's wrong with that? you've come around a time where her life is " built" and "built up" it's not that she doesn't need you or want you, she is trying to figure out how to make room for you now. As someone who has been single for a extraordinarily long time I find it hard to just " fall for someone" it has to be a lot longer for three weeks, and i have to make sure I actually feel it. After all love is a strong word. And often I think it takes time for me to come to grips with those "feelings" especially if I thought they were dormant or even extinct for so long. Give it time. Yes she is probably really busy, I think if things don't change after like 6 months then you might have a problem but after three weeks I think you need to relax. are you the kind of guy that is USE to being in a relationship? Maybe falling for someone is normal for you after three weeks, but for people like the woman you're describing, 3 weeks is just causal dating and I would just take a chill pill and do some of your hobbies! 1
Versacehottie Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) None of us has a crystal ball is what I'm saying. To blame the girl entirely is wrong when it is clear that the OP has some things that don't make dating him easy. Far better to counsel him about those things and make helpful suggestions that will help him no matter what in his dating life. It's not a one-sided problem. It's most likely be a two sided one. It may be biased actually to him that the OP is screwing it up with his overeagerness which is hardly the same as she is not interested. She may be losing interest due to his actions. She may be trying to also set a pace that's comfortable and doable for her. To say that she's not interested when his dating style is the one that seems to be more out of the norm of the two of them is not really helpful to him--when it is primarily his overeagerness, clinginess and tendency to move too fast and need reassurance that may be causing this. It just perpetuates his problem. He can only control two things: what he does and how he feels about what he does. At the very least, he can learn how to behave in a way that brings him closer to his goals. Honestly the smothering and jump to a defeated attitude are something that will cause him problems no matter who he is going out with. Potentially he could be suited better to someone else because of his needs and liking to move fast--but he likes this girl now so he should do the things that make the most sense to have a chance with her (or anyone!). It's been 3 weeks; on my end, I would assume she still expects him to do the dating work maybe because she is traditional like that, as many girls are. So he should stop be overly neurotic about her effort--just man up in asking her out and set a normal pace and some confidence and assuredness. He should manage his emotions and actions and if she does not meet his dating standards he can walk away too. That's his best chance now and in the future. Committing himself to negative beliefs and generalizations will just keep someone like him guessing and giving his power up to the other person. Every relationship is a fluid and in motion--he should do his best to influence it to go his way. Believing negative sh*t is not the way to do that. If he wants to take in the negative stuff and conclusions thrown out, he should 100% walk away right now because it's doomed completely, of course. And then he can keep doing the same pattern on every new girl and expect a different result and keep cycling through them--perpetuating a defeatist attitude because now he is clingy with unrealistic attachment pace and a belief that any girl who doesn't reciprocate and think just like him in love matters as quickly as he does (remember this is the guy who say he LOVES her after 3 weeks), isn't interested. Wow, that's genius. OP, good luck. Honestly, try to keep a clean slate and just take the actions day by day. Don't overthink or project into the future. Do your best right now in the present. If you can actually follow this advice it will help. I don't have a crystal ball so no one knows how it will turn out with this girl--there are too many variables. Do yourself a favor and take care of the ones you can influence. Edited January 4, 2016 by Versacehottie
katiegrl Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Fair enough Versacehottie... but I am curious as to what you would advise him to do when .... on a Wednesday, he asks her out for Saturday ....and she responds by saying she will let him know Saturday. Which is what he said is what happens. He asks her out in advance, but she refuses to give him an answer until the day of.... Which answer would depend on what other offers she received. How does the OP or any man work with that? Become a free spirit, "fly by the seat of your pants" man himself? He said it has been like this from day one -- three weeks ago. So it's not a matter of her losing interest due to his *clingyness* ....all he is wanting to do is plan a date in advance! I don't like being negative either, and I am open to becoming more positive....if you or anyone can see around this conundrum. I mean he can chill out and pull back until the cow's come home ...but if when he *does* ask her out ....she refuses to let him know until the last minute, keeping him anxious and on pins and needles until she decides ...the day of ....I don't see how this situation has any chance of working. Unless he demands she change her free-spirited nature ...which I imagine would not go over very well. They are a mis-match.....clearly. There is no wrong or right here. Like I said, he prefers lots of togetherness, and to plan in advance, and she prefers distance, lone time and to "play it by ear" with respect to making plans. Neither is wrong for being the way they are ...they are.just *different*. It has only been three weeks, his bad for allowing himself to become attached so soon. But IMO it's time to call it a day....unless of course you or someone can come up with a viable resolution to this conundrum that would benefit both of them...and result in **both** being happy. Not her calling the shots .... and him remaining anxious and walking on eggshells, trying to adapt to her whimsical and free-spirited nature. I am open I promise! Edited January 5, 2016 by katiegrl 1
insert_name Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 I don't agree the OP is doomed to repeating patterns based on this one girl. They have two different dating styles and his job has to be to find someone who matches his dating style and they will fit together well with no need to withdraw to try and pique her interest. In fact in that sense he is best off cutting his losses now and moving on simply becuase this girl is a bad fit and will eventually wreck him. I would also argue that his is the more 'normal' dating style. It might be perfectly legitimate that she needs all this time for who knows what before seeing him, but it is not typical at all that in the early days of dating she doesn't want to commit to plans with him until the last minute. That is essentially why he is struggling, because her behaviour is not typical of whst he has been used to and it is also counter-intuitive which has got him rattled and imo understandably so. Her behaviour is quite odd and indicative of a lack of genuine interest, at least if we were to compare it to similar scenarios played out in various other threads on this forum that have all featured a man trying to rationalise why his date is not giving him her full attention shortly before it all ends in tears.
thecrucible Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 I agree katiegrl. If they can't match up each other's personalities, it could all get too much. I feel for the OP. I'm not very spontaneous either. If a man tried to be spontaneous and asked me out the night of the day he asked (or gave me an answer), I'd likely decline. Last minute makes me anxious as I don't have time to mentally adjust to the change in my schedule. Even if I don't have something to attend one evening, I've likely scheduled in some "me" time or attention to a hobby. I dated a guy recently who would say with a clear air of disappointment in his voice "well I guess I have to book you in advance". I genuinely wasn't playing games. It's just part of my personality and I have a busy life so can't go out on a whim.
Versacehottie Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Fair enough Versacehottie... but I am curious as to what you would advise him to do when .... on a Wednesday, he asks her out for Saturday ....and she responds by saying she will let him know Saturday. Which is what he said is what happens. He asks her out in advance, but she refuses to give him an answer until the day of.... Which answer would depend on what other offers she received. How does the OP or any man work with that? Become a free spirit, "fly by the seat of your pants" man himself? He said it has been like this from day one -- three weeks ago. So it's not a matter of her losing interest due to his *clingyness* ....all he is wanting to do is plan a date in advance! I don't like being negative either, and I am open to becoming more positive....if you or anyone can see around this conundrum. I mean he can chill out and pull back until the cow's come home ...but if when he *does* ask her out ....she refuses to let him know until the last minute, keeping him anxious and on pins and needles until she decides ...the day of ....I don't see how this situation has any chance of working. Unless he demands she change her free-spirited nature ...which I imagine would not go over very well. They are a mis-match.....clearly. There is no wrong or right here. Like I said, he prefers lots of togetherness, and to plan in advance, and she prefers distance, lone time and to "play it by ear" with respect to making plans. Neither is wrong for being the way they are ...they are.just *different*. It has only been three weeks, his bad for allowing himself to become attached so soon. But IMO it's time to call it a day....unless of course you or someone can come up with a viable resolution to this conundrum that would benefit both of them...and result in **both** being happy. Not her calling the shots .... and him remaining anxious and walking on eggshells, trying to adapt to her whimsical and free-spirited nature. I am open I promise! Well about wednesday ask out to saturday answer (let's assume that this is exactly what happened--i'm not quite convinced though I realize that's what OP wrote), well yeah, very mis-suited for each other. That free spirited, spontaneous thing is good for some, and not so much for others. Because of his anxiety, I don't think this will feel good to him. Unless he can get a handle on the anxiety about relationships itself. Part of that is caused by him being "right there" and very attached, I would guess. If he wasn't overly asking and attached, she wouldn't be sure when the next invite was coming and more likely to commit. (i think it's a pavlov thing). I think she is setting the pace with the last minute stuff. Maybe he sees them as in a relationship and she does not (i'm pretty sure that's what's going on). I do think it's a tough sell for a relationship if she likes to be spontaneous and he clearly doesn't (though part of the reason why I think he doesn't is due to needing reassurance about the relationship and unrealistic expectations). Mis-suited because of that I can agree to, but she has acted interested. If he comes to the conclusion that is specific to her and his own standards, such as: this particular girl's idea of scheduling dates does not work for me and not how I see myself being happy in a relationship---it is infinitely more helpful to his future dating. Even out of situation that didn't go the way he'd hoped, he will have confirmed to himself that he has standards that she just couldn't meet. Anxiety lessening. Not limiting. Empowering himself. Coming to the conclusion that someone who doesn't show interest as you expect exactly and getting all fearful and believing blanket statements creates anxiety in someone already anxiety-prone. Limits him. And disempowers him to take his fate into his own hands. Well the solution I would give for the conundrum I think I've said. He needs to slow his roll. He needs to make peace with her pace and mirror her level of effort. Have realistic expectations and still act in a confident manner AS IF everything will go well. There is no other way to "PROCEED", IMO. There is the other choice to determine that they are incompatible due to scheduling and walk away with his head held high and no regrets. I tend to think he needs to adjust his expectations though. As someone said it's over the holidays and she still managed to see him 2x week. They always have a great time and she is physically into him (I read that, right?)--yet he is kinda stressed for reassurance but yet in "love" with her--who is really being unrealistic here, her or him? I don't think taking his exact same dating behavior to next girl he's dating will go much better even if the next girl is easier to schedule with. But yeah they could be grossly mis-suited. I don't feel like he's ready to walk away though, ie couldn't without regrets. I think it would be smarter for him to manage his expectations better and at least see it out. No matter what he does, today, tomorrow, 10 years in the future with her or whoever, I know he can come to more specific and supportive to himself conclusions that won't derail future dating or opinions about women. Ok OP, good luck 1
Author Deleted User Posted January 5, 2016 Author Posted January 5, 2016 An example of what I'm talking about? Last time we chatted was this morning at 8AM. She is on FB Messenger *as we speak* (as evidenced by the "active now" and "1 minute ago" timers) and chooses not to speak to me (I didn't initiate conversation to see what would happen). I'd like to continue kidding myself but... Ladies, if you're into a guy, would you at least chat him up? I think you would... Good night everyone and thanks for your input.
Author Deleted User Posted November 12, 2017 Author Posted November 12, 2017 I'm revisiting this thread for the heck of it. Of course, everyone had been right and absolutely no good came out of this ****, lol! It's been so long and we have seen each other for such a short amount of time that I don't even remember much about her or the relationship that was not to be. Haven't spoken to her since I dropped off the surface of the earth. Life's good, people! Be selective and waste no time and/or energy on people who don't deserve it 1
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