katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 OP be honest (if not with us, then within yourself). It is the mind blowing sex that hooked you in.....you are addicted to the sex.... She (and the sex) is your *drug* of choice....and it is not uncommon to get hooked on things we know are bad (or wrong) for us. This happens to women too.....and yes it is very difficult to walk away from any type of addiction. Be it a drug, a person, anything. But it is still early ...so it is best you make the effort now to *kick it* and walk away ...before you get in too deep. Wish you the best.....
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 Well dear, you should have said so :-) That changes perspectives. I agree now you need to relax and adjust a little to her rhythm. Also slow down on the communication. She needs to miss you and by the same token initiate contact more. Keep in mind that dating is about finding someone compatible and she may not be it. After all - all of her relationships have failed due to her lack of availability. Yea, I jumped in well aware of that (she told me beforehand, she's very honest about this). I'm testing my own threshold to see if I can handle this or not. Even if I can, ultimately I know it's making me uncomfortable. However, she's also said even though her past relationships have failed because of her unavailability, she'd like to experience a better RS and she trusts my loyalty and experience can provide that (I was with my ex for 12yrs, which she admires me for). Anyway... We'll see what comes out of this. I was already giving her all the breathing space she needed, but I'll give her even more. (I do not make any drama when she turns me down.... I come on here instead, lol)
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 OP be honest (if not with us, then within yourself). It is the mind blowing sex that hooked you in.....you are addicted to the sex.... She (and the sex) is your *drug* of choice....and it is not uncommon to get hooked on things we know are bad (or wrong) for us. This happens to women too.....and yes it is very difficult to walk away from any type of addiction. Be it a drug, a person, anything. But it is still early ...so it is best you make the effort now to *kick it* and walk away ...before you get in too deep. Wish you the best..... I work overtime and could ultimately "buy" crazy sex if crazy sex was all I wanted. There is something in her that has me hooked up, sex being only a part of a bigger whole.
PPan Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Hey guys... I've been dating this girl for 3 weeks now. I'm 35, she's 33, she has a very fulfilling life by herself with billions of friends (both genders) and basically, she's very independent and needs lots of "alone time". She had warned me of this right from the start so I went in "fully aware". Now... I feel like I'm always the one pushing to see her. Many times I suggest activities or just hang out together, but there's always something in the way. Whether she has a girls' night out, Happy Hours with her co-workers or just needs "her time", I seem to be the one "making time". I get it she's independent and all, and I know she told me beforehand. But I think this is a bit over the top... I mean... I always feel like spending time with her, I love her and am deeply attached. I also have my personal activities, but they are never an hindrance and I wouldn't hesitate to reorganize my schedule to accomodate her. It's just... I dunno how to say this... She says I need to respect myself and not tolerate things that hurt me, but damn... What are your thoughts? Ever gone out with an independent woman, so much so that it makes you feel like you're below "taking out the trash" on her list of priorities? I may totally be off track here, and she MAY be totally into me, I don't want to make assumptions, but... We chat daily, but meet about 2 times a week. I'm a dude that never gives up, ever, and I love her and want to be with her. I just feel it's not reciprocated. She has agreed to be exclusive and see how things go, but she doesn't want us to be official just yet. She has talked about me to her best friend, though, for what it's worth. Anyway... Waiting for your input, guys (and gals!) Cheers! She is not all that attracted to you. Or she's seeing some other guy. She wouldn't take you for granted if she was as into you as you are into her. And the way she doesn't make up plans with you? Damn, bro. And stop being so needy. A dude who doesn't grive up is only attractive when he looks like Ryan Gosling. You keep this behavior up and you'll be the creepy guy she'll tell her girlfriends to stay away from.
Gaeta Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 she'd like to experience a better RS and she trusts my loyalty and experience can provide that (I was with my ex for 12yrs, which she admires me for). How ironic is that. If she said something like this wouldn't you think she'd change her ways and try to adapt to yours? How are you suppose to help her experience a better relationship is she's the one running the show? and running it her old ways? Does she sound open to your teaching you think?
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 How ironic is that. If she said something like this wouldn't you think she'd change her ways and try to adapt to yours? How are you suppose to help her experience a better relationship is she's the one running the show? and running it her old ways? Does she sound open to your teaching you think? She told me her requirement would be not suffocating her... which I agree with and which translates into her having her "alone time". It's the amount of "alone time" she seems to require that has me questioning everything. If it was even only half of that, I wouldn't even be here on this forum today. But so far, from the information I can gather, the cumulative amount of "alone time" seems higher than "let's be together time"... This is what has me worried.
Gaeta Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 She told me her requirement would be not suffocating her... which I agree with and which translates into her having her "alone time". It's the amount of "alone time" she seems to require that has me questioning everything. If it was even only half of that, I wouldn't even be here on this forum today. But so far, from the information I can gather, the cumulative amount of "alone time" seems higher than "let's be together time"... This is what has me worried. What would you consider a normal amount of time together per week?
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 I work overtime and could ultimately "buy" crazy sex if crazy sex was all I wanted. There is something in her that has me hooked up, sex being only a part of a bigger whole. Well I did say *she and the great sex* is your *drug* of choice (hooked you). It's a packaged deal ....I get that. It is still unhealthy though and extremely unbalanced. I can picture you feeling very anxious on pins and needles ..... waiting for her to be available so you can get your *fix*. Be careful with that ....that's all I am saying. Remember, interested people act interested. And sorry but what her actions indicate is that she would rather be alone to do her own thing. That is never gonna change, not anytime soon anyway....it is her nature. The guy she will ultimately fall for will be just as independent and "busy" as she is....if not more so. Ironically, she keeps meeting men who crave all this togetherness, while clearly she craves distance, which is why her previous relationships never worked out.
WomenWubber Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 So you got yourself a funk buddy for the weekends. Seems like a good arrangement to me.
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 What would you consider a normal amount of time together per week? It's hard to put that into hard numbers... It's simply my gut feeling that tells me the effort she puts into making herself available is seriously lacking.
Versacehottie Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Sigh.... This is really depressing. I'll let her take the lead from now on and see where it takes me... I fear I'm in for a world of hurt. Thanks guys... Keep the comments coming. your anxiety is playing out on this very thread! I'm trying to imagine what that might be like for her dating you! Not fun. Sorry just being real. There are parts of what you said where I can totally hear that you are a great guy. Don't let you anxiety get the best of you. So you went from pretty good at the beginning of this thread with this girl but a little confused to depressed because of what some internet strangers who in actuality know nothing about you, your girl or relationship said?? That's your doubt and non-belief in yourself playing out. As you said the reality has been fine. She likes it when you contact her every day. I'm guessing if anything that's turning her off is the need to reassure your and manage your expectations and pace. Even if you think you are hiding it, you are not in some ways. Most of us like people with confidence. If she has a lot going on in her life it's an expression of things she values and how she sees herself--people usually like to find that in their romantic partner as well. Therefore if you are showing her by your clinginess that you don't have much going on, she is probably questioning things a bit. Here's the biggest thing and fallacies on here that are perpetuated to your disadvantage by believing them: there are no forgone conclusions! you are acting like she has all the power and her end point is DECIDED. She is DECIDING not DECIDED. Gosh, sometimes the negativity on here is amazing. The negative beliefs do not help people who already are full of fear and anxiety. So now you are going to punish her and pull all the way back at the beginning of the relationship?? That's just going to be confusing. You are still the guy and you like her. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? You've been seeing her about twice a week. The rational comments you've gotten seem to collaborate that is about right. Why not continue to see her twice a week?? Since it sounds like you've been asking much more than that, you will have to make set plans so you get those twice a week in. Go with the flow a little more; be spontaneous. If you start acting depressive and fatalistic you are just going to mess things up for yourself. Good luck. 1
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 When I suggest we meet for <name your activity here>, it's always a struggle for her to be available. She will ultimately say yes IF and only IF she's not taken by something else (of lesser importance on her scale) AND if she's not in her "I need alone time" phase. If any of these 2 criterias are met, I'm SOL. To Versacehottie -- you say we are being *negative*. No ......how about *realistic* and *honest*. Please read the above post from OP... Does this sound like a woman who is interested in developing a healthy relationship with him? Or any relationship? Or even simply dating him? Dating, especially in these VERY early stages is not supposed to be this difficult.... come on now. Sounds like all she is interested in ...is an occasional **** buddy* and/or "texting buddy." 1
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 Most of my anxiety comes from the fact it's my first ever encounter with someone who needs THAT much space... I get it a relationship is made up of 2 independent individuals, but at some point you want to feel wanted/needed a bit... Gives it a meaningful and heartfelt feel. Alright, I won't pester anyone anymore. I'll let things play out and go from there, wherever that takes me. Thanks everyone.
Gaeta Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Most of my anxiety comes from the fact it's my first ever encounter with someone who needs THAT much space... I get it a relationship is made up of 2 independent individuals, but at some point you want to feel wanted/needed a bit... Gives it a meaningful and heartfelt feel. Alright, I won't pester anyone anymore. I'll let things play out and go from there, wherever that takes me. Thanks everyone. What would you consider a reasonable amount of time spent together per week? Or 2 times a week is ok It's just the fact she makes it difficult to get together that bothers you?
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Most of my anxiety comes from the fact it's my first ever encounter with someone who needs THAT much space... ***I get it a relationship is made up of 2 independent individuals, but at some point you want to feel wanted/needed a bit... Gives it a meaningful and heartfelt feel. Yes of course you do...we all do...and no one is faulting you for wanting that and needing that. Just not with "this" girl ....as clearly that is not what she wants ....and you cannot force someone to be interested in you, love you, and/or want the same things as you. Good luck going forward.....
insert_name Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 your anxiety is playing out on this very thread! I'm trying to imagine what that might be like for her dating you! Not fun. Sorry just being real. There are parts of what you said where I can totally hear that you are a great guy. Don't let you anxiety get the best of you. So you went from pretty good at the beginning of this thread with this girl but a little confused to depressed because of what some internet strangers who in actuality know nothing about you, your girl or relationship said?? That's your doubt and non-belief in yourself playing out. As you said the reality has been fine. She likes it when you contact her every day. I'm guessing if anything that's turning her off is the need to reassure your and manage your expectations and pace. Even if you think you are hiding it, you are not in some ways. Most of us like people with confidence. If she has a lot going on in her life it's an expression of things she values and how she sees herself--people usually like to find that in their romantic partner as well. Therefore if you are showing her by your clinginess that you don't have much going on, she is probably questioning things a bit. Here's the biggest thing and fallacies on here that are perpetuated to your disadvantage by believing them: there are no forgone conclusions! you are acting like she has all the power and her end point is DECIDED. She is DECIDING not DECIDED. Gosh, sometimes the negativity on here is amazing. The negative beliefs do not help people who already are full of fear and anxiety. So now you are going to punish her and pull all the way back at the beginning of the relationship?? That's just going to be confusing. You are still the guy and you like her. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? You've been seeing her about twice a week. The rational comments you've gotten seem to collaborate that is about right. Why not continue to see her twice a week?? Since it sounds like you've been asking much more than that, you will have to make set plans so you get those twice a week in. Go with the flow a little more; be spontaneous. If you start acting depressive and fatalistic you are just going to mess things up for yourself. Good luck. The problem with going with the flow is that the flow is entirely in the direction of how she wants to play it. He proposes dates and she says yay or nay depending on how she feels. This is a dynamic fraught with danger and uncertainty because she is effectively putting no effort in apart from showing up and even then she only shows up when there is nothing else she would rather be doing, like painting her nails or watching paint dry. It is the harshest, most trite comparison to make but it holds more than a nugget of truth so (apologies to OP) I am going to throw it out there: do you think she would be so hard to arrange dates with if it was David Beckham blowing up her phone? I don't think anyone in this situatiin could be blamed for trying to test the water to see how strong her resolve is. Every situation is different but *most* of the time if you have to work hard to get the other party on a date then. It is likely to go south just as soon as that person finds someone they would rather be with. In a perfect world yes we would all chill out and have faith that the other person genuinely does want their alone time and everything is tickety-boo. Unfortunately we live in times where guys have to be on point 24/7 because women have all the multi-dating options. Solid relationships very rarely start with the honeymoon period being characterized by unavailability- hell the girl even admits herself that her pervious relationships tanked for this very reason. Admittedly I talk from a position of bias because I have been through this myself and tried to do as you said- let it go with the flow when my gut was telling me that this sort of dynamic early on is not a good sign- and so it proved that my gut was spot on. That was one girl and this is a different one but there are some startling similarities even down to the behaviour, age and previous relationship history. To be honest given that they met online I would take the 'me-time' stuff with a pinch of salt too. A multi-dater would be socialising and then using 'me time' to date others. You simply can't afford to take anyone from a dating site at face value until you have known them a lotnlonger than 3 weeks. I do totally agree that OP does need to go with the flow, but in the knowledge that this is probably not her only rodeo and to see it as a casual hook up every now and then while he dates others until either he finds somebody worthy of his time or she fi ally realises she wants to invest more into their relationship because then OP can't lose or at least not too badly. My money is firmly on an update in a few weeks/months that she was seeing others and has let contact lapse with OP and that is it- the end. I don't believe in unicorns like I used to and a woman from a dating site/app who early on says she needs time alone while still being invested in a relationship is very much a unicorn. 4
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 The problem with going with the flow is that the flow is entirely in the direction of how she wants to play it. He proposes dates and she says yay or nay depending on how she feels. This is a dynamic fraught with danger and uncertainty because she is effectively putting no effort in apart from showing up and even then she only shows up when there is nothing else she would rather be doing, like painting her nails or watching paint dry. It is the harshest, most trite comparison to make but it holds more than a nugget of truth so (apologies to OP) I am going to throw it out there: do you think she would be so hard to arrange dates with if it was David Beckham blowing up her phone? I don't think anyone in this situatiin could be blamed for trying to test the water to see how strong her resolve is. Every situation is different but *most* of the time if you have to work hard to get the other party on a date then. It is likely to go south just as soon as that person finds someone they would rather be with. In a perfect world yes we would all chill out and have faith that the other person genuinely does want their alone time and everything is tickety-boo. Unfortunately we live in times where guys have to be on point 24/7 because women have all the multi-dating options. Solid relationships very rarely start with the honeymoon period being characterized by unavailability- hell the girl even admits herself that her pervious relationships tanked for this very reason. Admittedly I talk from a position of bias because I have been through this myself and tried to do as you said- let it go with the flow when my gut was telling me that this sort of dynamic early on is not a good sign- and so it proved that my gut was spot on. That was one girl and this is a different one but there are some startling similarities even down to the behaviour, age and previous relationship history. To be honest given that they met online I would take the 'me-time' stuff with a pinch of salt too. A multi-dater would be socialising and then using 'me time' to date others. You simply can't afford to take anyone from a dating site at face value until you have known them a lotnlonger than 3 weeks. I do totally agree that OP does need to go with the flow, but in the knowledge that this is probably not her only rodeo and to see it as a casual hook up every now and then while he dates others until either he finds somebody worthy of his time or she fi ally realises she wants to invest more into their relationship because then OP can't lose or at least not too badly. My money is firmly on an update in a few weeks/months that she was seeing others and has let contact lapse with OP and that is it- the end. I don't believe in unicorns like I used to and a woman from a dating site/app who early on says she needs time alone while still being invested in a relationship is very much a unicorn. ^^Beautiful ...well said. 1
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 What would you consider a reasonable amount of time spent together per week? Or 2 times a week is ok It's just the fact she makes it difficult to get together that bothers you? Well, let's put it another way. If, those 2 times, SHE was calling/texting me and suggesting activities, it would be a totally different ballgame. I simply feel like I'm the only one pulling on the rope. The days I didn't initiate anything, nothing happened. It's as if she's not even 'missing' me when I'm not around.
Author Deleted User Posted January 4, 2016 Author Posted January 4, 2016 The problem with going with the flow is that the flow is entirely in the direction of how she wants to play it. He proposes dates and she says yay or nay depending on how she feels. This is a dynamic fraught with danger and uncertainty because she is effectively putting no effort in apart from showing up and even then she only shows up when there is nothing else she would rather be doing, like painting her nails or watching paint dry. It is the harshest, most trite comparison to make but it holds more than a nugget of truth so (apologies to OP) I am going to throw it out there: do you think she would be so hard to arrange dates with if it was David Beckham blowing up her phone? I don't think anyone in this situatiin could be blamed for trying to test the water to see how strong her resolve is. Every situation is different but *most* of the time if you have to work hard to get the other party on a date then. It is likely to go south just as soon as that person finds someone they would rather be with. In a perfect world yes we would all chill out and have faith that the other person genuinely does want their alone time and everything is tickety-boo. Unfortunately we live in times where guys have to be on point 24/7 because women have all the multi-dating options. Solid relationships very rarely start with the honeymoon period being characterized by unavailability- hell the girl even admits herself that her pervious relationships tanked for this very reason. Admittedly I talk from a position of bias because I have been through this myself and tried to do as you said- let it go with the flow when my gut was telling me that this sort of dynamic early on is not a good sign- and so it proved that my gut was spot on. That was one girl and this is a different one but there are some startling similarities even down to the behaviour, age and previous relationship history. To be honest given that they met online I would take the 'me-time' stuff with a pinch of salt too. A multi-dater would be socialising and then using 'me time' to date others. You simply can't afford to take anyone from a dating site at face value until you have known them a lotnlonger than 3 weeks. I do totally agree that OP does need to go with the flow, but in the knowledge that this is probably not her only rodeo and to see it as a casual hook up every now and then while he dates others until either he finds somebody worthy of his time or she fi ally realises she wants to invest more into their relationship because then OP can't lose or at least not too badly. My money is firmly on an update in a few weeks/months that she was seeing others and has let contact lapse with OP and that is it- the end. I don't believe in unicorns like I used to and a woman from a dating site/app who early on says she needs time alone while still being invested in a relationship is very much a unicorn. You have pretty much nailed it. I feel like this RS is one-sided, with me pushing forward and her calling all the shots with yay or nay. I'm hoping time will prove me wrong. I'm torn between "let's find out" and "i'm being made a fool of".
Gaeta Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 You have pretty much nailed it. I feel like this RS is one-sided, with me pushing forward and her calling all the shots with yay or nay. I'm hoping time will prove me wrong. I'm torn between "let's find out" and "i'm being made a fool of". Go ahead and find out. Most people need to learn their lesson themselves.
insert_name Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 You have pretty much nailed it. I feel like this RS is one-sided, with me pushing forward and her calling all the shots with yay or nay. I'm hoping time will prove me wrong. I'm torn between "let's find out" and "i'm being made a fool of". I'm pretty sure I have nailed it because she sounds exactly like my situation, only the age is slightly different. I came to the conclusion that she was either emotionally unavailable or just not interested in me. So I stepped away and stopped initiating...and that was that. It is totally understandable to think your situation is different so I wouldn't take too much criticism there on the chin. Like I say you don't even have to give her up, just be honest with yourself that (based on what you have said) the best you are likely to do is get the milk for a limited time but never actually own the cow. So just see it for what it is, a roll in the hay every now and again so you are not so hung up on the girl you eventually put allbyour efforts into. The problem is that even that can leave a bitter taste when you are the one doing all the work to set the hook up up. Leading a horse to water all the time soon becomes the opposite of 'the end justifies the means'. I couldn't do it. I would need to be sure that other person had some desire to at least pick up the phone and send a text to see if I was okay if I went silent for a few days. Seems like she doesn't care one way or the other which, I'm sorry to say, tells you where you are in her thoughts. Like I said earlier, judge your status on what happens in between the dates not on them. Out of sight, out of mind etc. 1
WhirlwindGuy Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) You have pretty much nailed it. I feel like this RS is one-sided, with me pushing forward and her calling all the shots with yay or nay. I'm hoping time will prove me wrong. I'm torn between "let's find out" and "i'm being made a fool of". I just met my partially unavailable girl for lunch today. Seeing as her schedule is extremely busy this next month, I talked with her at lunch today and told her to just assume that I will make time for her when she can get away (my schedule is a lot easier to adjust), but I wont bother with continuing to ask every day. When she is free, let me know and we can do something, otherwise, we will catch up when things calm down. Hard for me, because I am like you, I like to spend as much time together as possible. I think its important to build a relationship. I have to be realistic though and understand I am not the norm when it comes to this, and I have to adapt or risk the chance of losing a really awesome woman. Also we are both working professional adults. We have responsibilities to our careers, etc. So maybe just put the ball in her court and see what she does with it. It wont be easy for you obviously, but it will be telling, I think. That said, if things are continually like this for 3 to 6 months, and we (or you guys) don't begin to start integrating our lives a bit more, well I'll have to likely reassess and potentially move on (getting hurt in the process). I doubt it will continue to be a problem though, she hasn't given me any reason to think it will be yet. She typically go's out of her way to see me when she has free time, its just that the free time is few and far between. Edited January 4, 2016 by WhirlwindGuy
clia Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 The problem with going with the flow is that the flow is entirely in the direction of how she wants to play it. He proposes dates and she says yay or nay depending on how she feels. I don't think we know this for sure. I asked the OP above whether he was asking her out with notice (i.e. a few days in advance) or at the last minute and he hasn't responded. He's been dating her for three weeks smack in the middle of holiday season and she's still managed to see him twice a week, which many people in this thread seem to agree is a normal amount to see someone at this stage of the game. I think that's pretty good! People are busy this time of year with holiday parties, Christmas shopping, and other plans. I suspect she already had a lot on her calendar by the time they started dating. If he's asking her out at the last minute, it's not surprising she has plans already. That's not a rejection of him or not making herself available for him. She's living her life. But, I have no idea since for whatever reason the OP didn't seem to want to answer my question. (Which leads me to think he is doing a lot of last minute "Do you want to have dinner tonight?" type of asking out.) OP, care to answer? Why not plan the next date when the two of you are together? But again, I think twice a week seems fine. I don't understand why so many people seem to think she's not interested in him even though she's having sex with him and seeing him twice a week. 2
clia Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Well, let's put it another way. If, those 2 times, SHE was calling/texting me and suggesting activities, it would be a totally different ballgame. I simply feel like I'm the only one pulling on the rope. The days I didn't initiate anything, nothing happened. It's as if she's not even 'missing' me when I'm not around. You've only been dating her for three weeks. It's fairly normal for the guy to take the lead in the early stages of the relationship as far as communication and planning dates. And to be fair to her, she did tell you she needs her space. She doesn't sound like a woman who is going to be calling and texting you on a daily basis. If that's the type of woman you want, then you should probably find someone else. 1
katiegrl Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 clia, please read his post #33. Setting up a date should not be this difficult and her apathy and indifference to it indicates disinterest to most people. If one has to jump through hoops just to get another person to schedule a simple date, something is seriously wrong.....and why bother? Interested people act interested. 1
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