Break Up with a child involved - still in love with my ex

[whiteout75]

I've finally decided to get it together and post my story on a forum. It's part personal therapy, part curiosity as to what people might think or advise.

 

I've tried to break the story down to more-or-less a list of events to make it easier to read, so here goes:

 

1. Nearly 4 years ago, i get together with a friend there had been a mutual attraction with for 3-4 years. I've always liked and respected her personality and fancied her too, but she was with a friend of mine for most of that time. After they split, she pursued me, often a bit drunkenly and one night despite my previous resistance, it felt right.

 

2. We are together 4 absolutely blissful months and she announces her pregnancy. I am delighted, she is too. She is VERY family orientated, and even prior to the announcement, we had discussed should this happen, we would move to the country to be closer to her parents who she is very close to. There was no question. I was done living in the city and am a country boy through and through anyway. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

3. 5 months later we make the move. During this time she is plagued with health problems. A very difficult pregnancy. And depression. She came off her meds the day she found out, and honestly, the change in her was literally over night. I have NEVER blamed her with regards to her health, or even brought it up. I didn't think much of it at the time, i took it on board as part of my responsibility to the pregnancy. I cared for her all day every day in between working. Her personality though switched from sweet and loving, to a completely irrational demon. Demanding, needy and insulting all at once, often. I don't and didn't appreciate what depression is, and that definitely contributed over the years. I was stretched to my limit energy wise, but didn't complain because i was happy with the prospect of becoming a father, and took my responsibilities seriously. I forgot to equip myself with the necessary ways of coping with a depressive (i hadn't known she was prior to getting together with her).

 

4. Fast forward to a difficult birth and a week in hospital with our daughter, and almost inevitably, post-natal depression. Further shocking irrational behaviour from her, and the start of serious arguments amidst us adjusting to parenthood, new home, and completely new lives. I had part-time work adhoc, which seemed to suit us, or so i thought at the time.

 

5. I should add in here that we were and still are utterly devoted parents. We have a daughter we both consider the most amazing gift ever and she has such a beautiful personality. It's almost like all our love went on her and there was none left for each other.

 

6. So the short story is that inbetween working, parenthood, being a partner, trying to build a new life in a place i barely knew, and most of all, doing the lion's share of the parenting due to my partner's poor health (both physical and mental), i had little energy left.

Obviously caring for our daughter was the priority, so work never built up to a full-time level as it simply couldn't at the time, and there was little time to find friends and do those important kind of things.

And amongst that, there was a lot of very good, nice times between us. But unfortunately there were also a lot of times i felt treated badly due to her illness.

 

7. Fast forward to our daughter's first birthday and i am starting to get seriously tired of the situation and being constantly treated in a way about which i had no understanding - just irrational, disrespectable, demanding behaviour and double standards from my partner who i was lovingly devoted to and who was effectively ill all the time - the depression obviously affected her motivation, energy etc. to the point she was rarely really 'present' or 'there' mentally. A lot to cope with in a short space of time in a new relationship. And a shock from which i am still recovering (and her too). This is a little over 2 years into our relationship by now.

 

8. So i am finding her stubborn and uncomprimising behaviour very confusing - i am a complete pacifist, and also a total overthinker. I don't have a quick enough wit to deal correctly with the type of things she was throwing at me. I have led a happy and relatively sheltered life and am not used to negative behaviour.

So i start to retaliate, gradually at first. I make the mistake of subtely trying to change her behaviour - to try and point things out to her....hints basically. But she doesn't get it, so i try the blatant approach. She doesn't get that either. My approaches are all wrong. I should have either laid my cards on the table at this point, or left.

 

9. We keep having silly little arguments, sniping basically. However we always apologize and make up and there's rarely a grudge on either side. We both agree we need to work on things. At this point, we rarely or never go out on dates anymore, and the sex life is gradually diminishing. We love each other, but we're just both too tired to do anything about it i suppose.

 

10. So another fast forward to last July. Her health has picked up over the previous 6 months. She is finding herself a bit again. She's been away for a few days and come back with 'the letter'.

'The letter' is fairly generic, about finding herself, loves me but not 'in love' with me, doesn't believe in the notion of 'family' like she used to, thinks neither of us are thriving in the relationship, and that we are fantastic parents and will continue to be. In short, nothing i could particularly fault her for saying, or argue down.

Naturally devastated, i take off for a few days on a roadtrip in which i have many epiphanies and light-bulb moments pouring over our history. I see things the way they are for the first time and what i must do to prevent her properly leaving me. I return with renewed dedication, though i am seriously panicking inside. We don't so much fall into each other's arms, more like have some tentative re-bonding and many tears and words of regret and sadness.

 

11. Alas, it is not to be. Things between us are just plain 'weird'. We don't communicate well as i think we are both scared.

'The chat' happens 3 or 4 more times, in which she reiterates that she doesn't think she is able to continue, and somehow i manage to persuade her to hold on.

But obviously the last time, she doesn't. And i am out of energy this time to be able to change her mind, and not able to take the personal humiliation of a further rejection. We talk awkwardly for a while, but really there is nothing to say that hasn't been said several times over already.

 

12. So now this is September last year and we are officially separated but still co-habiting and co-parenting. I have gone back to college, got a new job, attended therapy, and got involved in various projects in mostly an attempt to impress her, but also to do what i should have done a year or so before.....kickstart my own life, for me. The former didn't work. I was so sure it would. But for her the damage was already done. She had hidden herself away and i thought it was mostly the depression, but she admitted it was in fact her inwardly worrying about 'us'. If only i had known. There were hints, but i'm afraid sometimes a guy needs to be properly threatened before he acts, it shouldn't be like that but it can be.

I questioned her why, despite 'the letter', she effectively led me on. She said it was because she was afraid of being wrong about 'us', but also afraid of losing herself if she continued. She also didn't want to hurt me. She has thought about it for over a year she said. We've both done things wrong, but sometimes that's just what happens, and even with the best of intentions, things don't work.

 

The funny thing was, 2 weeks before the first rejection, we had a stupid fight in which she insulted me and i threatened to leave her. She asked me the next day, 'you wouldn't leave us would you?'. Of course, i said no. And then she leaves me!

As i say, i over-think things. And so, unknown to her, i have thought about her issues a lot. I wish i hadn't. Having answers isn't always 'the answer'. But i feel i have sussed her out. I won't write what i think here, but i BELIEVE her personality and actions revolve around deep insecurity and constant guilt. It's not her fault, and i still struggle to wonder if there is anyone who would cope with what i have been through?? But it has nearly done me in thinking about it, and i am a mega patient, understanding person, i believe!

 

13. So lucky 13. I have to move out and find a new place to live. It's best for our daughter to not be uprooted, and best for my employment that i'm not the main parent.

We live in a small town in Scotland. A very small town! I contemplate moving further afield but feel it'll be too much of a heart-wrench to be that far from my daughter. So i find a nice place literally 2 minutes down the road.

But before i can move in, we have to live together for about 2 months of pure weirdness and some scary days for me of what i believe to be depression myself. Not good for any of us, and by the end of it, i cannot wait to be out of there, even though it's been a lovely home for me for 3 whole years.

 

14. So here we are now, nearly 2 months later. We are amicable. We always put our daughter first. But i try and keep my distance without being rude. It's hard when my ex is literally 2 minutes away and the town is so small. And in the last fortnight, there has been Christmas, her birthday and New Year, and i guess this has put everything sharply into focus.

I am full of confusion for this girl. I love her to death, yet i seriously dislike a lot about her. I don't want bitterness and resentment to take a hold. I miss her so much and think about her constantly. Yet i cannot be around her. And i have to be. I cannot be myself with her. There are many more issues with her that i'll explain if anyone takes me up on this 'story'!

 

 

But i suppose i'm just wondering what the likelyhood is of anyone else having found themselves in a similar situation? And how did you get through it?

I feel like my recovery and healing is going to take longer, and be hindered by my ex's constant presence in my life.

I have many other issues, and there have been other significant events in our history which might fill in the gaps a bit, but i'll leave them out for now for the sake of not over-writing/thinking!

 

Thanks!!

[Downtown]

Whiteout, welcome to the LoveShack forum. What a wonderfully detailed account you have written about your 4-year relationship! In reading it, I felt like I was right there in rural Scotland with you two. I am so sorry to hear, however, that your R/S ended painfully for you.

 

Her personality though switched from sweet and loving, to a completely irrational demon. Demanding, needy and insulting all at once, often.... But i feel i have sussed her out. I won't write what i think here, but i BELIEVE her personality and actions revolve around deep insecurity and constant guilt.

Please do tell us what you think is her problem, i.e., what caused her to switch from "sweet and loving" to "a completely irrational demon." The most likely cause, of course, is the hormone change brought on by pregnancy and then postpartum changes. Yet, you seem to suspect that her issues started much earlier from events causing "deep insecurity" and "constant guilt." Is that what you are here to discuss?

[whiteout75]

Whiteout, welcome to the LoveShack forum. What a wonderfully detailed account you have written about your 4-year relationship! In reading it, I felt like I was right there in rural Scotland with you two. I am so sorry to hear, however, that your R/S ended painfully for you.

 

Please do tell us what you think is her problem, i.e., what caused her to switch from "sweet and loving" to "a completely irrational demon." The most likely cause, of course, is the hormone change brought on by pregnancy and then postpartum changes. Yet, you seem to suspect that her issues started much earlier from events causing "deep insecurity" and "constant guilt." Is that what you are here to discuss?

 

Thank you Downtown!

To try and answer you, yes i totally agree that hormonal changes were the catalyst. I think lifestyle changes too didn't help. She wasn't ready for a relationship (she has had many!) and certainly not the responsibility of a child, no matter how much she wanted it. She'd been a party girl for years, in and out of jobs and relationships. The way she pursued me was always drunken, as if she needed drink to cover up something. The depression thing is obviously a big factor too, her weight has always fluctuated a lot, perhaps due to lifestyle factors too. So coming off a pretty high dosage of anti-depressants when she has been plagued by mental and physical health problems from a young age (she has a weak immune system) must have been quite devastating. Then there was the relocation to a very rural area from the big city. That speaks for itself.

 

I can't say exactly what the root cause of the insecurity and guilt are, but she had a dramatic relocation due to parent's work at a tender age right as she was hitting adolescence. From what she tells me that has affected her majorly. Right around this time there were also some significant bereavements in her immediate family that also cut very deep. As for the guilt, i believe that to be an offshoot of the depression, but i cannot say where that comes from exactly. I'm backtracking slightly here!

 

What i have found is that i 'feel' she has a large hole in her life she is trying to seal up, and after a while it felt like she was using me to do so. And when i began to naturally retaliate against her behaviour, and indeed began to reflect some of hers, she recognized that i was giving it back to her, didn't like it because she saw herself in it, and pushed me away with a complete refusal to rationalize and understand. This is where things become toxic in a relationship, but i'm not sure if anyone understands that it was a subconscious thing on my part, i was tested to the absolute limit, and i believe from what i've read that behaviour of a depressive can often transfer to a partner. I'm not excusing it, but i understand it now.

 

I will go into all that more, but it's difficult to explain it all, it's so intense and complex, and i'm still trying to unravel it, or just recover from it. It's cost us our relationship unfortunately, and i do feel at the end of the day it's mostly down to misunderstandings, assumptions, and above all, miscommunication.

The strange thing is, i love her deeply, but i don't like a lot of her too. That can't be love? But it feels like love, and it did at the time. She pushed me away and made it very hard for me to express love. In the end, i think i was hoping that me being a good daddy, a rock, a solid partner in terms of getting on with things would be enough for her to recognize my love for her. But it wasn't. I am SO regretful of that because a)i took little time to try and understand depression and be empathic to her cause, and b)i didn't recognize her hiding away was due to relationship doubts, i thought she was just permanently "tired" with her depression and physical ailments. So, so gutted about both these things. I love her still. She knows it. But she has chosen her path.

 

So fast forward to now, and it's a struggle to heal from the myriad of issues this relationship and the resulting break-up have thrown up.

Above all, she is in my life all the time, and always will be due to our daughter. So what rules apply here? Certainly not a lot of the usual NC rules etc. Neither of us are experienced in this sort of break-up obviously. We have compiled a Parenting Agreement, but there are personal boundaries that crop up quite often that we haven't envisaged. Such as i recently had to tell her to stop texting me that she misses our daughter when i have her on the 2 days i have her, because i feel like it's my special time with my daughter and she is putting an emotional pull on things towards herself that is, at the time, not welcome when i am enjoying time with my daughter.

So i feel like i am having to be open but keeping a distance, and that's so difficult amongst the more regular aspects of a break up. I really do need a break from this girl, but i'm not going to get one!

 

Will add more detail of course, if anyone is good enough to take me up on this story.

 

Thank you!!

[Downtown]

I don't and didn't appreciate what depression is, and that definitely contributed over the years.

Whiteout, I disagree. I believe you understand depression very well. I suspect that, like nearly all adults, you've experienced depression yourself and thus know that it gives your W feelings of sadness, hopelessness, worthlessness, and irritability. What you're describing, however, goes well beyond the symptoms of depression.

 

The behaviors you mention -- i.e., her being "completely irrational demon, demanding, needy and insulting all at once, and often," and rapid flips between her adoring you and devaluing you -- are warning signs for emotional instability. Such instability (i.e., strong mood changes) is not caused by depression. Rather, its four most common causes are hormone changes, drug abuse, BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), and bipolar disorder.

 

Hormone change. The primary cause of instability in the general population is a hormone change. As I noted above, this suggests that the most likely cause of emotional instability in your situation is the hormone changes brought on by pregnancy and then by postpartum changes.

 

Drug abuse. The second most common cause of instability is abuse of alcohol or other drugs. You do not describe this as being a serious factor. I mention it only because you commented that "the way she pursued me was always drunken, as if she needed drink to cover up something." If I understand you correctly, however, the vast majority of time she did not drink alcohol but still exhibited the irrational and abusive behaviors -- despite the lack of any alcohol.

 

BPD. The third most common cause of instability is BPD. Importantly, I am not referring to the occasional display of BPD traits which we all do. Instead, I am referring to a lifetime BPD problem that originates in early childhood and typically starts appearing as strong behavioral traits in the early or mid-teens. Importantly, BPD is believed to be firmly established by age 5 or 6, at which time it freezes the child's emotional development. It therefore is very unlikely it could be caused by the "dramatic relocation" occurring when your W "was hitting adolescence" at age 10 or 11.

 

Granted, you do describe some of the warning signs for BPD (e.g., rapid mood flips, controlling, verbally abusive, and temper tantrums). Yet, unless these behaviors have been persistent over many years, they likely are just the temporary flareups of BPD traits we all exhibit when experiencing a strong hormone surge (e.g., during puberty, PMS, pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause).

 

I mention BPD for two reasons. First, if it is applicable, it could explain your W's immature behaviors and rapid mood changes. Second, you make several comments hinting that her immature behavior and mood issues may have started a long time ago. While conceding that you "can't say exactly what the root cause of the insecurity and guilt are," you observe that "she has been plagued by mental... health problems from a young age." And you state that "she wasn't ready for a relationship (she has had many!) and certainly not the responsibility of a child.... She'd been a party girl for years, in and out of jobs and relationships."

 

I nonetheless remain skeptical about the BPD red flags. But, if you ever have good reason to believe that her current abusive behaviors (e.g., verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and rapid mood flips) started in her teens -- not with the recent pregnancy and postpartum periods -- I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your child are dealing with.

 

If you ever decide to do that, it would be important to see YOUR OWN psychologist -- one who has not treated or seen your W. Whenever BPD is a potential issue, your best chance of obtaining a candid opinion is to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers.

 

Bipolar. I hesitate to mention bipolar because the event-triggered, rapid mood flips you describe generally are not characteristic of bipolar. Granted, these symptoms are possible with bipolar (as can occur for several days in ultra-rapid cycling) but are very unlikely to arise from bipolar alone.

 

I nonetheless want to mention that the depression your W was being treated for prior to her pregnancy could be the result of bipolar-2, which is characterized by very mild mania during upswings and serious depression during downswings. (The onset range for bipolar symptoms is 18-30, with the mean age being 25.) Yet, if this were the case, it's hard to believe that the doctor prescribing the antidepressant would not have told her the name of her disorder.

 

With bipolar-2, the manic phase is so mild that the deep depression usually is the only symptom noticeable to other people. That is, the person swings between depression and being fairly normal. It therefore does not produce the type of wild swings you are describing where the person becomes verbally abusive and hatefully irrational.

 

Those dramatically unstable symptoms could occur, however, when a bipolar-2 sufferer is prescribed an antidepressant by a doctor who doesn't realize she has bipolar-2. When the depression arises from bipolar-2, it is very important that a mood stabilizer be prescribed. An antidepressant alone may greatly exacerbate the upswing, causing the mild mania (which is barely noticeable) to become very strong. While this is a possibility to consider, I nonetheless remain skeptical about bipolar-2 because you are not describing strong mania -- and because the symptoms you do describe (e.g., verbal abuse and event-triggered mood flips) are far more characteristic of hormone or BPD issues.

[whiteout75]

Thanks for the very thorough reply.

It's made me think of a few relevant things. I am 40 and she is 36.

With regards to the depression, she often used to accuse me of being depressed, to the point that i went to my doctor who confirmed my own diagnosis of stress. Someone once said to me that you don't have to have had depression to understand it and to know that you don't suffer from it yourself. I have never held her accountable for any of her actions as a result of depression, almost never mentioned it to her. I felt that would be wrong, and a pointless thing to do. If she is aware of it, i put trust in her to deal with it properly. She would sometimes forget to take her medication though, and that was often a time she lashed out. A gentle reminder to keep taking it would usually get the response "i didn't mean to not take it". It wasn't a criticism at all, just my attitude of 'let's deal with this now so it won't happen again and you won't lash out, and i won't get hurt'. Otherwise, things fester, and we're both adults, supposedly.

 

And here we have the crux. She will do/say anything to avoid dealing with things. Anything i challenged her with would be taken as criticism and be met with, to my mind, these sort of immature retorts. I couldn't really say anything, but was always told to just "accept". And to do everything she asked without dispute. Often when i asked her to do something, or a suggestion to change something slightly, she wouldn't "accept", or the best response i could get would be silence and a grumpy face. It's these sort of things that have led me to believe that the traumatic changes earlier in her life have stunted her emotional growth, to the point that she is stuck in a sort of teenager mentality.

 

I hate to make this all about HER because i really do not blame her, however i must vent here. She is far and away the most stubborn person i've ever met. Her father is exactly the same and herein lie some of the issues. She argues incessantly and pointlessly with him, prolongs the arguments needlessly, then the next minute will ask him to do something for her - much the same as she did to me. And he does. On the other hand, her mother is completely doting, to her she is the golden girl and always has been. So she is used to getting her way. And i have observed that she intimidates them both - her mother physically reclines when she has a tantrum and gives her her way, and her father, if i am involved, would tell me to let her have her way. No one challenges her as she cannot handle that. She is a picture of sweetness and light to everybody, that is the persona she seems almost desperate to project, yet i often wonder if the people she treats badly are the ones closest to her - me, her parents, and her younger brother. It's maddening and hurtful. And i am now worried that these traits will influence our daughter too.

 

Hormonal changes aside, the drug/alcohol abuse may be a factor. She did once consult a herbal medicine practitioner who diagnosed that her natural body clock had effectively been completely messed up prior to the pregnancy due to the partying. She was suffering from all sorts of things, insomnia, restless arms/legs, and was at one point diagnosed with a strain of ME/Chronic fatigue syndrome. But this has never really been treated.

 

The thing with the BPD is, i can see that quite clearly now you have explained it to me, but it is not a constant issue for me anymore now that we are separated.

The only thing i can act upon is if i see it affecting her parenting skills. She has very little patience, though i think that may improve with her general happiness. But also, she tends to get very enthusiastic about new ideas, then they are dropped very quickly. This has been a constant. She is currently seeing a therapist, but i have not asked her about this as i feel it's not my business. She's previously had CBT, which didn't seem to make much difference to her. Again, i didn't pry. I am undergoing therapy/counselling myself at the moment and have not disclosed any of that to her, so i feel for the sake of fairness, i shouldn't ask about hers.

 

I'm just very frustrated with it all still. Although we are separated, i feel this will never be resolved in my mind. I long for the day when i can let it all go. I wish i had discussed these things with her around the time of the break up. She made it clear there was to be no blame for the break up even though i think plenty could be apportioned on either side. It was maybe the best way to end things, but i can't help thinking it was an avoidance tactic. Fair enough, i should be used to that!

There were a couple of occasions post-break up where she had meltdowns - questioning her decision and becoming extremely upset, in the company of others and after excessive drinking. On one occasion i was summoned by her mother to use it as an opportunity to talk to her. I tried, but she was too tired and it went nowhere. At that point i realized it was attention seeking (even though we'd both put aside time to 'talk') and there was nothing further i could really do.

And now i have to watch (on social media unfortunately, we need it to communicate) her making a big show of all the great changes she's making to her life, really laying it on thick. I started thinking, 'she doesn't know what she wants'. That changed to 'she doesn't know what's good for her', but i think ultimately i have to accept that 'she just doesn't want me anymore'.

The bigger heartbreak is our daughter. I have her 2 days a week and i have found that over the 2 months so far, it only gets harder to hand her back. I wouldn't mind not being in a relationship for a long time, or ever, as i feel i have all the love i need with my daughter. But i don't want to become bitter because of all the time and effort i spent raising her has been reduced to this 2 days a week. Where was my ex when i needed her? Hiding away. And being really difficult. And i am the one to lose. It's not fair, but i accept that it's just life. I have been denied the family i wanted and have to watch my ex dancing around like it's all okay. And i feel like she thinks she has the monopoly on things like missing our daughter when she's with me. I have to miss my daughter 5 days a week. She gets respite for 2, yet still feels the need to text me about how much she misses her! A bit of compassion, please!!

 

I just don't really know how to deal with this situation. I have so very little time to myself to kickstart my life in other areas. I have work, college, and my daughter. That leaves about 1 day a week in which to do the multitude of things i am interested in, outdoors, art, music, so many!

 

Anyway, thank you so much again. I have too much to say, i think!

[whiteout75]

Just a short addition:

 

I'm often plagued by regret that i didn't fight for this girl. In retrospect, i had a child to look after. I had a job. I had hoped that this would be enough to prove my commitment, but i can now see that her mentally abusive behaviour made me withdraw with confusion, ultimately leading to stress. It made me unable to express myself to her, or with love, as i was so confused. That's not to say i didn't at all, but things had changed.

 

Perhaps i should have tried to win her back, she is so insecure that is perhaps what she might have wanted? But by the time we finally broke up, she had rejected me 4 or 5 times, i just couldn't take any more humiliation and i had got the message loud and clear. I went with it out of respect for her. I never once reduced myself to pleading with her. Maybe that's what she wanted? But the way she presented the break up all made sense to me and my logical mind, i couldn't dispute too much. And i didn't want her to see me upset, so i accepted it all instead.

 

Wise? Or not.

 

NB. The first time she brought up the subject of separation, i dealt with it practically. I got a new job, i started seeing a therapist/counsellor, i began studying, i started making time for myself, partly for myself, and partly to give her space and for her to be impressed with me. It only served to make her breakaway easier now that she could see i was capable of independence.

 

Now i would do anything to have her back, but we both must change first. It's just so difficult being in contact with her so much due to our daughter, that i'm unable to make a clean break, disappear, and potentially reappear much better! (if that makes any sense)...

[Downtown]

The thing with the BPD is, i can see that quite clearly now you have explained it to me.

Actually, Whiteout, I have only barely begun to explain BPD to you. I've been reluctant to do so because, unless you believe her BPD traits were strong prior to the pregnancy, her instability and other BPD traits could be fully explained as a temporary flareup caused by hormone changes. Yet, because you seem convinced her troubles began many years earlier, I will now discuss some of the BPD traits you've been describing. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. Importantly, I am NOT trying to persuade you that you are seeing strong and persistent BPD traits. I don't know that to be the case.

 

I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums. Hence, if your exGF really is a BPDer (i.e., a person with strong and persistent BPD traits), you should be able to spot any strong BPD traits that are occurring once you know what behaviors are on the list.

 

I can now see that her mentally abusive behaviour made me withdraw with confusion.

If you really have been living with a BPDer for nearly 3 years, consider yourself very lucky that you are only feeling "confusion." Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect on their partners than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

The traumatic changes earlier in her life have stunted her emotional growth, to the point that she is stuck in a sort of teenager mentality.

The vast majority of emotional growth -- and formation of a strong self image -- are believed to occur much earlier, i.e., in early childhood. Hence, if she really is a BPDer, her emotional growth likely is frozen at the level of a four year old, not a teenager. Such immaturity may be difficult to see in a woman having the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full-grown adult. It nonetheless will be apparent in her heavy reliance on the primitive ego defenses that are available to young children. These include, e.g., projection, denial, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, and magical thinking.

 

I have never held her accountable for any of her actions as a result of depression, almost never mentioned it to her.

Your not holding her accountable was a BIG MISTAKE. Granted, having depression or BPD was not something she chose for herself. These conditions, however, do not give anyone a free pass to go around abusing her loved ones.

 

I really do not blame her.

You should. As an adult, she should be held fully accountable for her own bad choices and bad behavior. Even if she does suffer from strong BPD traits, it is in her best interests to be confronted with the truth. Like a young child, a BPDer must be held fully accountable (within reason) for her bad choices. Otherwise, you are destroying all of her opportunities to have to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them.

 

That is, you are destroying any incentives she would have to do the hard work of acquiring more mature emotional skills and growing up. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, your enabling behavior -- i.e., your walking on eggshells around her just like her parents do -- is harmful to her as well as to yourself.

 

She will do/say anything to avoid dealing with things. Anything i challenged her with would be taken as criticism and be met with, to my mind, these sort of immature retorts.

If she is a BPDer, this extreme sensitivity to criticism -- as well as her refusal to take responsibility for her own actions -- is to be expected. A BPDer is filled with so much self loathing and shame that the last thing she wants to find is one more flaw or mistake to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. Her subconscious mind therefore will work 24/7 to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality.

 

It accomplishes this by projecting all hurtful thoughts, mistakes, and painful feelings onto you. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will be absolutely convinced -- at the conscious level -- that these feelings and thoughts are coming from YOU. In this way, a BPDer is able to continually validate her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

She is a picture of sweetness and light to everybody.... yet i often wonder if the people she treats badly are the ones closest to her - me, her parents, and her younger brother.

If she is a BPDer, that is exactly what you should expect. The vast majority of BPDers interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would trigger her engulfment fear.

 

Consequently, a BPDer's dysfunctional traits typically do not appear until one of those folks makes the mistake of drawing close to form a close LTR with her. This is why it is common to see high functioning BPDers excelling at difficult jobs requiring coordination and cooperation with numerous coworkers. Indeed, it is common to see HF BPDers being caring and thoughtful all day long to clients, colleagues, and complete strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them.

 

Moreover, when one of those colleagues or casual friends makes the mistake of drawing close to a BPDer, he will start triggering her two fears. This is why a BPDer may have many casual friends and colleagues -- but typically will have no long-term close friend (unless that friend lives a long distance away).

 

Prior to the pregnancy.... she was suffering from all sorts of things, insomnia, restless arms/legs, and was at one point diagnosed with a strain of ME/Chronic fatigue syndrome.

If she has strong BPD traits, this would not be surprising. It is common for BPDers to suffer many physical ailments, including full-body problems like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia (which my exW has). The reason is not that BPDers are simply imagining these problems but, rather, that their strong anxiety and lack of emotional regulation plays havoc with their immune system. There are numerous studies finding a strong incidence of chronic pain and chronic fatigue in BPDers. See, e.g., Chronic Pain Syndromes and Borderline Personality (2012).

 

Paradoxically, there is evidence that BPDers generally are insensitive to self-inflicted pain but are overly sensitive to chronic pain. For acute self-induced pain, they seem to experience attenuated pain responses. For chronic endogenous pain, however, they appear to be very intolerant of the pain. See, e.g., Borderline Personality and the Pain Paradox (2007).

 

She has very little patience, though i think that may improve with her general happiness.

The lack of impulse control and impatience is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. That is, it is one of the nine behavioral traits used in diagnosing BPD.

 

I started thinking, 'she doesn't know what she wants'. That changed to 'she doesn't know what's good for her'....

If your exGF is a BPDer, you are correct. A BPDer never had the opportunity to develop an integrated, strong sense of identity -- a task that normally occurs before age five in healthy children. Because she doesn't know who she really is, she has no stable sense of self to ground her, center her, and provide a direction in life. It therefore is common to see a BPDer become very excited about one profession, hobby, or religion for a few months and then completely abandon it for something entirely different. To know "what she wants" she must first know who she is.

 

She tends to get very enthusiastic about new ideas, then they are dropped very quickly. This has been a constant.

Likewise, my BPDer exW exhibited many of the same behaviors you describe. She would run up $5,000 debt (twice!) on secret credit cards to acquire stuff that would give her a sense of identity (e.g., sewing machines and fabric). In that way, she became the "clothing designer" in her own mind. But she wouldn't use the equipment or throw it away (i.e., she was a hoarder because she received an "identity" from having those items).

 

In 15 years, she managed to sew one vest, one dress, a blouse, and a cat collar. That's what $6,000 of sewing machines and $5,000 of fabric bought us. And she used a $3,500 piano a total of five times in three years -- giving herself the false self identity of being a pianist.

 

She made it clear there was to be no blame for the break up even though i think plenty could be apportioned on either side.

If she is a BPDer, whatever is "made clear" and agreed to today has no effect on what she will believe next week or next month. Like a young child, a BPDer's perception of "reality" is dictated by the intense feelings she is feeling AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Unlike a mature adult, a BPDer lacks the emotional skill to intellectually challenge those intense feelings. Instead, she simply accepts them as being self-evident truths and therefore will subconsciously change her recollection of what she had agreed to earlier. This is why BPDers will be seen to frequently "rewrite history."

 

She is currently seeing a therapist, but i have not asked her about this as i feel it's not my business. She's previously had CBT.

When a person suffers from a "clinical disorder" such as chronic depression and anxiety, medication is prescribed because the cause of such disorders is an imbalance in body chemistry. Meds cannot make a dent in BPD, however, because -- like the other personality disorders -- it is believed to be caused by a lack of emotional skills

 

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a form of therapy that aims to restructure and change the way a person thinks and behaves. A popular subset of CBT is an approach called "Dialectical Behavior Therapy" (DBT). CBT and DBT are the two most common therapies used in treating BPD and other PDs. See, e.g., CBT versus DBT for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

 

She thinks she has the monopoly on things like missing our daughter when she's with me.

Although a BPDer may have great empathy and understanding while she is "splitting you white," it can vanish entirely while she is "splitting you black." Like a young child, a BPDer is not sufficiently mature to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., loving you and hating you simultaneously). She therefore "splits off" the conflicting feeling, putting it out of reach of her conscious mind. This is why "black-white thinking" is a hallmark of BPDer behavior. It is particularly evident in the way a BPDer will categorize other people as "all good" or "all bad." And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

And i am now worried that these traits will influence our daughter too.... I am undergoing therapy/counselling myself at the moment.

I suggest you speak with your therapist about this. If he is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, I suggest you see someone who is because it is wise to get a candid opinion from a professional who is highly trained and very experienced with personality disorders. Because there is some risk of BPD being handed down to the next generation, it would be wise to ask about that.

 

Importantly, most children of BPDers do NOT inherit it. Of my exW's five children, only one exhibits fairly strong BPD traits. Studies of BPD incidence suggests that about 15% to 40% of BPD cases can be explained by genetic inheritance. See, e.g., 15% Occurrence in Families, and 10-20% Occurrence in Families. Also see Heritability 42%, and 40% Heritability, and Heritability 30-50%.

 

My advice, given your daughter's continued reliance on her mother, is that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance -- and whether your daughter may be at risk. Take care, Whiteout.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Downtown

[deepinthewoods]

Whiteout, I am in a very similar situation, though not quite as far along. Four year relationship, small town, emotional and physical distance starting about one year in, pregnancy at year two, now we have a 16 month old daughter, and my partner just moved out. I've posted on here the details in a thread called "Death of passion", which describes the circumstances.

 

We are pretty early into the breakup, and not sure if it is permanent or not. We are good friends still, stay together sometimes, and love our daughter like crazy, but relationship-wise, it fizzled out over a long period of time, and these last weeks since the breakup were not much different than the months leading up to it. Maybe it is just a natural progression in human relationships? Hook up, have a baby or two, then split so you might have a baby with someone else? Who knows, but babies are extremely hard on relationships. Doesn't make sense, right?

 

So, yea, we are going to be in each other's lives a lot, and I still love her, even though she was neglectful, and am still attracted to her. It is a hard process, for sure, and will get tougher as things progress. New partners, new living situations, changing needs and wants. Just know that as ****ty as things seem, they will change and a year or two later, you will have forgotten and will have other things on your mind.

 

I also have an 8 year old son, who I went through an extremely challenging process with his mother over custody and time sharing issues. Definitely the darkest period of my life, but now, things have smoothed out (after great effort), and I don't dwell on things much there now. This latest episode feels a bit easier now, after having gone through the previous challenge.

 

Keep looking down the road, and keep working hard for the life that you want. You will look back in a couple of years and be thankful for the hard work you put in now, and all of your turmoil will have changed.

 

Good luck and peaceful days...

[Miss Peach]

OP - What you mention sounds pretty common even for couples who were together much longer. It's very tough to figure out things when you have a baby to look after, lots of changes, little sleep, etc. I normally don't recommend anyone to make drastic changes the first year or two into a new baby. It's one thing if you just find deal breakers in each other. But wanted to pipe in that the initial period after having a baby is very challenging and if a couple is to make it IMO an effort needs to be made on both side, there needs to be help/support, etc.