Its true that women are attracted to jerk behavior!

January 2, 2016

I've only read a few of your posts OP, not the entire thread but it sounds like playful banter and teasing to me which is all good fun, part of flirting and also a part of every day life.

January 2, 2016

Was he unavailable? Still not sure on what you mean by that but I did give an example of what I thought it is. Was he aloof? Yea in the sense that he didn't really care about what they had to say and yet these are the same kinds that claim they like men to listen and care about what they say. When I made that mistake years ago it landed me straight in the friend zone. Now, I'm sort of in the middle with my approach so I do ok with women, but I cant go jerk out like this guy did last night. And yes he was definitely disrespectful where one said woman got upset and raised her voice by telling him to stop being mean to her but later gave him a chance anyway. Women just aren't being honest here.

When you meet a random girl at a bar and engage in convo by agreeing to everything she's saying and eating up all the nonsense that comes out of her mouth, you're ensuring your spot in the friend zone. I should've prefaced that by saying that this goes for meeting women at bars, clubs, social gathering like those and not so much an intro from a friend or long time pursuit. When you meet a girl, especially an attractive girl, they are used to Guys like YOU. Guys who are just overly nice and trying to get in their good side by showing interest in things that clearly don't interest you.

Your friend however calls them out on their bs on occasion which works in his favor. The "listen, you might think your **** don't stink, but relax sweetheart, you're at a downtown bar drinking watered down vodka cranberries, you're not better than anyone else in here" attitude can be alluring to certain girls.

Also realize that your friend went up to specific women at the places you went. I know personally at least that I would gauge who id have a good chance at interacting with based off body language, eye contact from afar, etc. your friend picked his targets with more thought then you think. I'm not saying be a blatant *******... But don't put her on a pedestal just because she's good looking and says "hi" back to you.

January 2, 2016

Most of what's described in the OP sounds like playful banter. Women do like that. Heck, most people like that. It's a refreshing alternative to the trite, nice guy talking points that end up feeling like some sterile job interview.

There's a major gap between playful, flirtatious banter and "A-hole" behavior. The guys who are unable to differentiate between the two end up assuming that women like jerks. And they themselves also usually have the social grace of a falling anvil.

I completely agree!

I enjoy banter but it doesnt mean that i want a guy who is disrespectful and aloof and treats me like garbage. The difference is very clear and it amazes me that a few guys on here keep getting this wrong.

By the way, a new years eve party -where people get drunk and are out to have fun- is not the best environment to observe women's interaction with guys, especially if you want to draw conclusions from it. It was harmless fun, flirting and banter fuelled by alcohol. You dont know if any of those women would actually go on a date with him let alone get into a relationship with him.

January 2, 2016

Ya well that's because its far important for a man to have boundaries, to show he will not get walked over than the other way around

January 2, 2016

I think context here is the important thing. There's certain things that can be said that will be taken differently in different situations. In a normal situation, if I do something kind dumb or make a small mistake, and a stranger says 'you're an idiot', it makes me feel bad and they're probably being a jerk. If I'm in a more social environment and make the same kinda dumb mistake near a friend, and my friend says 'you're an idiot', they were probably joking and its okay. Parties, by their nature are more social, meaning that the later part were my friend was joking is much more acceptable, and the women probably interpreted it that way.

January 2, 2016

Women like to have fun. It sounds like your friend is just living life.

January 2, 2016

Ofcourse women prefer someone that is good looking, but let's be honest, women are also quick to differentiate themselves from men by downplaying how much looks (and sex in general) influences them. Men are notoriously candid about where they prioritize sex.

I'd guess that women are less candid in discussing attraction and desire with men because women are judged much more harshly than men for letting their sexual desires guide them. It doesn't mean women don't do it - it's just not as socially acceptable to talk about it in the open.

But when my girlfriends talk to me about someone that caught their fancy, someone they just started dating, they're almost certainly going to tell me straight away how cute and sexy he is. Because they know I understand and won't judge.

And you can pretty safely assume that a bunch of girls out partying in NYC on NYE are looking for fun and excitement, not searching for good husband and father material. Desire and sexual attraction are fun and exciting. They create fireworks that fit the mood of the NYE celebration.

January 2, 2016

I'd guess that women are less candid in discussing attraction and desire with men because women are judged much more harshly than men for letting their sexual desires guide them. It doesn't mean women don't do it - it's just not as socially acceptable to talk about it in the open.

But when my girlfriends talk to me about someone that caught their fancy, someone they just started dating, they're almost certainly going to tell me straight away how cute and sexy he is. Because they know I understand and won't judge.

And you can pretty safely assume that a bunch of girls out partying in NYC on NYE are looking for fun and excitement, not searching for good husband and father material. Desire and sexual attraction are fun and exciting. They create fireworks that fit the mood of the NYE celebration.

Exactly. Girls amongst each other don't hide that sexual chemistry and good looks are top of the list same as a guy's list. Maybe some of us say the politically correct thing to both the guys that meet that threshold (sexy and cute) to create a challenge and make them show the other qualities as well and to the guys that don't meet the sexy/cute threshold to make them feel better about what they have to offer.

January 2, 2016

OP, do you feel threatened by those guys because they are getting further with certain woman and you observe them to act like jerks; while your approach isn't working as well as you think it ought to?

I think that rather than feeling threatened by those guys, you should take a leaf from their book. Incorporate aspects of their technique, the non-jerky stuff of course. Out of curiosity, what sort of jerky things did they say?

I remember recently watching a dating advice video for men on Youtube. I can't recall who it was by but its conclusion was that rather than try to show a woman how much of a decent guy you are, your focus at first meeting is simply to build attraction. Once you have your foot in the door by creating 'the spark', she can get to know you gradually and find out all your awesome qualities.

I think this is true for women too. I know for a fact that I haven't got anywhere when I used to take the approach of showing what a good potential girlfriend I would be as the primary focus. I've gotten further before by being mysterious, showing my fun side and using flirtatious teasing.

I admit that I do approach women from a more serious position than he did but I'm in no way threatened by his antics. And that's what they were in my opinion, just antics! I do kid around with women. I'm just more direct in how I do things. I don't feel the need to play games like my colleague to increase attraction. Things like that should be left to high schoolers not grown adults. I also don't find the need in trying to act mysterious. What I do for a living is what usually gets things going with most women anyway but once we start dating they reveal all kinds of ridiculous baggage that turns me off before it gets too far. Anyway I have the right to feel disappointed with the women in question because they showed that they haven't grown up much past their high school years. Its embarrassing really.

January 2, 2016

You just don't get it, do you?

1. Women like attention (Men too).

2. Women, just like men, appreciate more the things that don't come easy.

3. Women want to be popular. If a woman has 9 guys who like her, she might be upset about the 10th guy who doesn't like her. It can freak her out. She will ask herself - "Why doesn't he like me", instead of focusing on the 9 guys who do like her.

So, the ancient method is to start communication with a woman, no matter about what, and then, after a while to start ignoring her completely. It's even better that you start giving attention to another woman that in the same circle. When you do it, she starts asking herself "what's happened? why didn't he look at me when I said this joke or comment?

The thing is, that she is busy with that, and when you finally giving them back the attention they want, they're so relieved that they will do anything for you to not ignoring them again. They also appreciate you more because you had the guts to ignore them, it means you have confidence and women like that.

I've experienced it myself so many times, doing experiments. It doesn't really matter if you're very good looking or not. You better not be too ugly, but average look is more than enough.

Of course it doesn't always work, but your friend made it with 11 of 17.

Edited January 2, 2016 by lolablue17

January 2, 2016

I got to witness this last night at multiple New Year's Eve parties in the city of NY. I kid you not people. I went with a colleague in the business and got to see him first hand work his so-called magic on 17 unsuspecting women and to watch 11 of them fall victim to his bad behavior was astonishing.

To give you people examples of how he acted to said women at these parties is this: he would engage them in a quick introduction, smirking all the while, and then would start taunting them and giving them crap for really no reason other than to be a jerk.

I cant actually imitate what he did because we're two different people but this guy was a total ******* and while some of these women pretended to get mad with him at times and walk off on him, only to come back in a short period to engage with him more which led to phone numbers and tons of flirting. I even recall said woman cursing him out and accusing him of being mean to her and to leave her alone only to return when he let up on the gas with his taunting but he never apologized. She wounded up giving him her number after he had to promise to be nicer to her. All he did was smirk and say "I'll think about it. I'm never one to keep promises." She agreed anyway to give it a shot.

I got talking to exactly 5 women and only got 1 number out of it by simply being myself which doesn't add a whole lot, but whatever. And the thing is here is that these are the women claiming to not like jerks but they keep on responding to them regardless. Last night sealed it for me and I'm so very disappointed. I imagine the guys on Loveshack know exactly what I mean.

Its not the behavior that is attractive to women. its the men behind the behavior that makes the douchebag attitude seem to work with women. I have male model friends. They can be the most vapid, literal dirtbags that one can imagne and most women will have sex with them. Now take the average-looking men, who might even be above average as its not hard at all, with most guys being ugly or overweight. If he displays any sort of jerk behavior, or even ''nice'' guy behavior, he will get rejected by women the vast majority of time. And good luck getting casual sex if you think the jerk behavior is the way to go - without having the male models behind it.

January 2, 2016

Ofcourse women prefer someone that is good looking, but let's be honest, women are also quick to differentiate themselves from men by downplaying how much looks (and sex in general) influences them. Men are notoriously candid about where they prioritize sex. That's why we're never surprised (or feel confused) when we here a guy tell a "crazy ex girlfriend" story. There's no paradox, we know men prioritize looks very high, even to their own detriment sometimes. Behind every, 'my girlfriend is a B' story there is usually a pretty face, a killer body or mindblowing sex or occasionally a guy with low self-esteem.

And I think that this gets us closer to the crux of confusion.

Its not that women "like" jerks, but when asked directly (as most guys have at some point in time) women will often times only speak of the most wholesome of traits that they look for in a mate. If taken at face value, everyone woman would be chasing Richey Cunningham from Happy Days (dating myself), but that's clearly not the case in real life.

Contrary to how men are perceived, they spend a lot of time trying to figure out what women want and maybe it comes down to how its asked. There's a reason that there is such a cliche of the friendzoned guy listening to his female friend complaining about not being able to meet a nice guy in one breath, while in another complain about the guy that she is dating telling her yet another lie, forgetting some important event, pushing her birthday back to go hang out with a college buddy or caught making a move on another girl. Its these kinds of behaviors that lead to the conclusion of "Well gee, maybe she likes the conflict. Maybe she likes having to 'tame' some a_hole and being nice is seen as boring." It may not be totally accurate, but it is drawn from somewhere.

My point here isn't to say that women like jerks or to encourage men to treat women badly, but instead to show that this perception isn't being spun from whole clothe or plucked out of thin air as a way to deflect from some short coming.

This is why I say that men and women aren't really too different in what we want or respond to, its just that men are more upfront about the source of our follies.

Not really. That's mostly a myth. The belief that women don't put as much interest into looks as men put. The men who gets the majority of casual sex, by far, are tall, handsome and muscular. Average guys can score if they are drunk enough and thus have beer googles and go for women no one else wants, but for desirable women? The vast majority of the men who get casual sex with them - and relationships - are dudes who are highly physical attractive.

Most women do lower their standards as they enter their late 20s. Only because they want to get married and have children the quanitity of hot guys who want to settle down and marry is very low. Despite the fact that women marry men who aren't hot or tall or muscular, I doubt they are sexually attracted to these guys. They are just making do with what they can get.

Meanwhile, Johnny Q male model part time-job, womanizer full-time job has moved to hotter, younger women.

Look, its not complicated. All this cycle of ''nice guys'' wondering what women want and don't want. Women want hot men who don't take them too seriously and who know how to have fun. So, hit the gym, develop a IDGAF attitude and have fun.

January 2, 2016

This thread is depressing. Apparently the only gauge of success is the a,punt of casual sex you can "score." And how "hot" the "scored" person is.

January 2, 2016

I completely agree!
I enjoy banter but it doesnt mean that i want a guy who is disrespectful and aloof and treats me like garbage. The difference is very clear and it amazes me that a few guys on here keep getting this wrong.
By the way, a new years eve party -where people get drunk and are out to have fun- is not the best environment to observe women's interaction with guys, especially if you want to draw conclusions from it. It was harmless fun, flirting and banter fuelled by alcohol. You dont know if any of those women would actually go on a date with him let alone get into a relationship with him.

This!

I've joked around with all kinds of nobs on NYE events. It doesn't mean that I'd actually date him or take him home though.

January 2, 2016

This thread is depressing. Apparently the only gauge of success is the a,punt of casual sex you can "score." And how "hot" the "scored" person is.

Because casual sex is a great way for a guy to figure out if he's attractive, and how attractive he is. Women increase their physical standards when looking for one-night stands, and decrease their physical standards when looking for a relationship. Ideally, women would love to have a relationship with a hot guy, but unless she can match his looks she's probably only going to get a one-night stand from it.

if a guy can manage to have casual sex then there must be something going for him. And if he can get women who are very attractive to sleep with him, casually... well, hello there Ryan Gosling.

January 2, 2016

Because casual sex is a great way for a guy to figure out if he's attractive, and how attractive he is. Women increase their physical standards when looking for one-night stands, and decrease their physical standards when looking for a relationship. Ideally, women would love to have a relationship with a hot guy, but unless she can match his looks she's probably only going to get a one-night stand from it.

if a guy can manage to have casual sex then there must be something going for him. And if he can get women who are very attractive to sleep with him, casually... well, hello there Ryan Gosling.

hmm really lol I sometimes have causal sex with guys who i don't find particularly attractive, because he's just what I'e got at that time

January 2, 2016

Attractive guys are obviously going to have a competitive edge, but it's absurd to make it sound like the only way average or ugly dudes can get casual sex is if the girl has just done a keg stand. I see such guys getting female attention at social situations all the time.

It still mostly comes back to social grace, flirting capabilities, and body language. I guarantee that if you have above-average comprehension in these areas, you're going to have opportunities to sleep with women. No, looking like Quasimodo and bagging a super model isn't common, but some of you people make it sound like you can only get a girl to look at you if you're tall and handsome.

If you're average looking and not getting chances with women, I can promise you that something in YOU is lacking. Maybe you're boring. Maybe you suck at flirting. Maybe you're not good at flirtatious banter. Maybe your body language is comparable to that of a kid about to steal something for the first time (i.e. nervous).

Basically, look within. Sure, there are lots of superficial women out there, but I see average looking guys with solid female companionship all the time. It's total confirmation bias to look at a situation described in the OP and say, "See, women just want mean guys!" Even the OP said the guy is average looking. He sounds like a simply did a good job with the numbers game and projected confidence, while making most of the women feel at ease and engaged. It sounds like his appearance played little in his apparent success that night.

January 2, 2016

I got to witness this last night at multiple New Year's Eve parties in the city of NY. I kid you not people. I went with a colleague in the business and got to see him first hand work his so-called magic on 17 unsuspecting women and to watch 11 of them fall victim to his bad behavior was astonishing.

To give you people examples of how he acted to said women at these parties is this: he would engage them in a quick introduction, smirking all the while, and then would start taunting them and giving them crap for really no reason other than to be a jerk.

I cant actually imitate what he did because we're two different people but this guy was a total ******* and while some of these women pretended to get mad with him at times and walk off on him, only to come back in a short period to engage with him more which led to phone numbers and tons of flirting. I even recall said woman cursing him out and accusing him of being mean to her and to leave her alone only to return when he let up on the gas with his taunting but he never apologized. She wounded up giving him her number after he had to promise to be nicer to her. All he did was smirk and say "I'll think about it. I'm never one to keep promises." She agreed anyway to give it a shot.

I got talking to exactly 5 women and only got 1 number out of it by simply being myself which doesn't add a whole lot, but whatever. And the thing is here is that these are the women claiming to not like jerks but they keep on responding to them regardless. Last night sealed it for me and I'm so very disappointed. I imagine the guys on Loveshack know exactly what I mean.

Immature women like jerks . . . mature, independent, secure women like to be treated with respect, first and foremost. Then, if the man is also charming, witty, intelligent, communicative and honest, she will open herself up to finding out whether or not he is a candidate for whatever it is she wants for herself out of a dating partner.

The fact that you observed and encountered so many women like you describe, is disheartening because it is a statement to the current state of family structuring and the environment of the dating world.

1 number out of it by simply being myself -- Call that number soon.

doesn't add a whole lot -- You won't know what it adds up to until you call that number.

January 2, 2016

Once I stopped caring about attracting a woman, they started coming on to me in much greater numbers.

We can all smell desperation. It's pretty rank.

My daughter's happiness is my top priority. Mine is a close second. I'll never compromise either for anyone, including a relationship.

Women can choose to work with that if they want, but those are two things that I will never compromise on. I will not put aside my goals, ambitions, and wants for the sake of a woman. Simply will not happen.

If that makes me a "jerk", so be it. I'll happily accept that label.

January 3, 2016

hmm really lol I sometimes have causal sex with guys who i don't find particularly attractive, because he's just what I'e got at that time

I'm okay with that. i wouldn't say no

January 3, 2016

Most women do lower their standards as they enter their late 20s. Only because they want to get married and have children the quanitity of hot guys who want to settle down and marry is very low. Despite the fact that women marry men who aren't hot or tall or muscular, I doubt they are sexually attracted to these guys. They are just making do with what they can get.

For some women, I don't think it's a case of thinking "I'll not really have a chance with the very low ratio of highly attractive men so I'll settle for a less attractive one". I don't think in that way and certainly my friends don't. I think it's more the dawning realisation that you don't need to date your ideal to be really happy in a relationship, and that by not dating your physical ideal, you are not going to miss out on anything as you may feared before. You realise more and more what you have to prioritise in a relationship to feel happy and fulfilled. This elevates certain characteristics, making men you may have previously not considered your type hugely more appealing (at least this is the thought process I am starting to go through at the moment). I think men reach this truth as well so it's not purely a female behaviour.

In my experience men who haven't been the top shelf all the time (in looks, career, popularity etc) are far more intriguing to me than guys who know they're extremely attractive and haven't experienced any difficulty in life (not that I have anything against attractive men). I think a range of life experiences make a person more rounded and empathetic.

I'm ashamed to say that part of me coming to this realisation was my experience of dating a few jerks. I have never knowingly dated jerks and some of those guys weren't hugely attractive so it wasn't me judging on appearance. But it was shallow nonetheless. I have to say I'm a lot more willing to overlook a bit of awkwardness and nervousness in a man now than I used to. I'm becoming more suspicious of the guys with flawless charm and dating game. It is always good to be open-minded.

January 3, 2016

I admit that I do approach women from a more serious position than he did but I'm in no way threatened by his antics. And that's what they were in my opinion, just antics! I do kid around with women. I'm just more direct in how I do things. I don't feel the need to play games like my colleague to increase attraction. Things like that should be left to high schoolers not grown adults. I also don't find the need in trying to act mysterious. What I do for a living is what usually gets things going with most women anyway but once we start dating they reveal all kinds of ridiculous baggage that turns me off before it gets too far. Anyway I have the right to feel disappointed with the women in question because they showed that they haven't grown up much past their high school years. Its embarrassing really.

I'll give you this one tip. We ladies like a bit of mystery and intrigue (does he really like me? etc). We like to have a bit of uncertainty and a bit of questioning whether or not he really likes us. You can generate this kind of mystery without being a jerk as well. A bit of well-placed flirting never hurt anyone. It also shows a bit of confidence when she knows she can not have you engaged extremely easily. As I said you don't need to do jerky things to create that kind of interest from a woman. I don't want a jerk either but I want to have a sense I haven't won the guy from the start. A guy walking up to me and being overly effusive with affection would ruin some of the enjoyment of the early courtship phase for me.

You need to ignore all the fluff and experiment with flirting techniques yourself. Try out and different things through trial and error and don't think about how many women you are scoring with. Live in the moment, enjoy yourself and look for a good connection with someone. Don't get bogged down with too much serious thinking.

January 4, 2016

You just don't get it, do you?

1. Women like attention (Men too).
2. Women, just like men, appreciate more the things that don't come easy.
3. Women want to be popular. If a woman has 9 guys who like her, she might be upset about the 10th guy who doesn't like her. It can freak her out. She will ask herself - "Why doesn't he like me", instead of focusing on the 9 guys who do like her.

So, the ancient method is to start communication with a woman, no matter about what, and then, after a while to start ignoring her completely. It's even better that you start giving attention to another woman that in the same circle. When you do it, she starts asking herself "what's happened? why didn't he look at me when I said this joke or comment?

The thing is, that she is busy with that, and when you finally giving them back the attention they want, they're so relieved that they will do anything for you to not ignoring them again. They also appreciate you more because you had the guts to ignore them, it means you have confidence and women like that.

I've experienced it myself so many times, doing experiments. It doesn't really matter if you're very good looking or not. You better not be too ugly, but average look is more than enough.

Of course it doesn't always work, but your friend made it with 11 of 17.

Damn it this is similar to what happened just last night. I was at TGI with a different colleague, he's more reserved than the other guy, but we both got to witness a guy around 35 or so do this with a woman in question. He was acting snarky to her and I could tell he didn't care about what she had to say and he soon enough got up out of nowhere and walked off on her. I saw her shoot never ending glances at him for what seemed like hours as he was engaged in chatting up another lady. Eventually said woman came back over to ask him something and then she stayed there wanting more of this jerk's time. And yes that's what I'm calling him because what sane person would let another person walk off on them midsentence? Something's wrong here.

January 4, 2016

Damn it this is similar to what happened just last night. I was at TGI with a different colleague, he's more reserved than the other guy, but we both got to witness a guy around 35 or so do this with a woman in question. He was acting snarky to her and I could tell he didn't care about what she had to say and he soon enough got up out of nowhere and walked off on her. I saw her shoot never ending glances at him for what seemed like hours as he was engaged in chatting up another lady. Eventually said woman came back over to ask him something and then she stayed there wanting more of this jerk's time. And yes that's what I'm calling him because what sane person would let another person walk off on them midsentence? Something's wrong here.

How good-looking was the guy who did that?

January 4, 2016

How good-looking was the guy who did that?

[]

OP, you can have game in your own style, it will also work if you fine-tune it. You have said some comments that make me think your arrogant too but just cover it up differently. One of my best guy friends is a "nice" guy. He still cleans up, gets tons of girls because he is playful, fun and flirty. Always has. Not only that some of our other guy friends are better looking and cockier for sure than he is, he lets them do their thing and he does his. I've seen him get girls that they initially approached. You just need to refine your game and your attitude.

Also just a tip: maybe bars and clubs aren't the best places for you to meet girls. You sound pretty serious and not into immaturity and quick to characterize things going on there as such. Meet a girl where you will have more luck with her and it's truly more your natural scene. Maybe you are trying to force things at a bar. People are in a fun, carefree mood--unless you are in one too, it's gonna be tough.

Edited January 5, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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