Author Easyguy14 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 I just have to say, this line is so nauseatingly stupid to me. The calculated indifference is just blech. That said, I think a big part of what is going on is that he was very actively engaging with them, as opposed to a lot of "nice" guys who might extend themselves a little but don't know how to carry it forward. I don't think it was the rudeness, but the persistence and keeping them engaged in a playful way. But he's a pain in the ass though! I personally find his company mediocre at best but since it was New Year's I went with him to these parties because he had a few connections I didn't. His picking up the women was annoying and so obvious that its shameful these career women just like us couldn't see it.
katiegrl Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) I never once said he was attractive. I don't exactly judge men's looks but I'd go with "average" per se and a decent career in the "business" but he likes to bust balls all the time and it even annoys me. I really have no clue why these said women are giving him a chance but at the same time act annoyed with his behavior. Is it that hard to just curse him out and MEAN it?! Did you read lollipopspot's post above? That is why they kept giving him a chance. He was engaging them ..... in a fun and playful way -- many women love a good lively banter.... teasing back and forth....which is what you were witnessing. Don't disparage him...learn from him! To you he was a jerk ..... but to the ladies, he is *confident*, fun guy, a little cocky perhaps, who in the end continued to engage with them and gave them a lot of attention. Edited January 2, 2016 by katiegrl 2
preraph Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Some women are attracted to jerks,but 1) everyone defines "jerk" differently, so, for example, one woman may think a guy who smokes a little pot is a jerk while another may find it normal and be leery of anyone who didn't. 2) Most women are not attracted to jerks, as they define "jerk."
oberkeat Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Some women are attracted to jerks,but 1) everyone defines "jerk" differently, so, for example, one woman may think a guy who smokes a little pot is a jerk while another may find it normal and be leery of anyone who didn't. 2) Most women are not attracted to jerks, as they define "jerk." I think "aloof, unavailable, or disrespectful men" covers it pretty well. Men who treat these women like garbage. Edited January 2, 2016 by oberkeat
Ruby Slippers Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 In my experience, when women say "I wish I had a guy who was X, Y, and Z", what they mean is "I wish I had a guy who I found attractive, and who was X, Y, and Z." I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But worth keeping in mind. Just like men. No man wishes for a sweet, kind, loving plain Jane. They want a sweet, kind, loving girl who is pretty and/or hot.
katiegrl Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I think "aloof, unavailable, or disrespectful men" covers it pretty well. I have said this to you previously...but neither I nor any woman I know would be attracted to that. Nor would we continue dating a man like that. And any woman who would ... clearly is not right in the head.... or at the very least has low self-esteem and low opinion of herself. Otherwise, she wouldn't continue dating him either! The guy in OP's post did not display those qualities. They were bantering, teasing ....him intentionally acting *jerky*, in a fun playful way... the women pretending to be annoyed.. but secretly loving the banter and attention. If same guy started being disrespectful and/or unavailable in a dating situation, again, unless she has low self-esteem and low opinion of herself, she is NOT gonna stick around for long oberkeat. Please please try to understand women better...make it your goal for 2016...cause dude you have a lot to learn about us if you're gonna be successful in dating.....
One_Made_of_Silver Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Did you read lollipopspot's post above? That is why they kept giving him a chance. He was engaging them ..... in a fun and playful way -- many women love a good lively banter.... teasing back and forth....which is what you were witnessing. Don't disparage him...learn from him! To you he was a jerk ..... but to the ladies, he is *confident*, fun guy, a little cocky perhaps, who in the end continued to engage with them and gave them a lot of attention. I think this gets it. What's happening is not so much that women like a**holes, but that these "jerks" have qualities that women interpret as confident or masculine. So called nice guys don't tend to have those. Jerks tend to approach the women they want, whereas nice guys do not. Nice guys tend to put women on a pedestal, whereas jerks do not. I think the right advice for self described nice guys who have trouble with women is like Katigrl said: embrace the best qualities of the jerks, the confidence, the assertiveness, without actually becoming jerks. 1
Author Easyguy14 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 I think "aloof, unavailable, or disrespectful men" covers it pretty well. Men who treat these women like garbage. Was he unavailable? Still not sure on what you mean by that but I did give an example of what I thought it is. Was he aloof? Yea in the sense that he didn't really care about what they had to say and yet these are the same kinds that claim they like men to listen and care about what they say. When I made that mistake years ago it landed me straight in the friend zone. Now, I'm sort of in the middle with my approach so I do ok with women, but I cant go jerk out like this guy did last night. And yes he was definitely disrespectful where one said woman got upset and raised her voice by telling him to stop being mean to her but later gave him a chance anyway. Women just aren't being honest here.
hasaquestion Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Just like men. No man wishes for a sweet, kind, loving plain Jane. They want a sweet, kind, loving girl who is pretty and/or hot. Well yeah, but men don't say they just want a sweet, kind, loving girl. They include generally include pretty and or hot. I don't know if its a vestige of societal rules or what but it seems like women have been coached not to include that up to the point that they've genuinely forgotten how important it is to them. 1
lollipopspot Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Was he aloof? Yea in the sense that he didn't really care about what they had to say and yet these are the same kinds that claim they like men to listen and care about what they say. He wasn't aloof, he was approaching them and engaging them. Also, what might be acceptable flirty behavior at a party is probably not acceptable behavior if you're trying to have a serious conversation. This difference is important to understand. 1
Versacehottie Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 he who cares less controls the relationship. Girls like guys who aren't so easily available, we want what we can't have. Like most people, they want a challenge, something not easily attainable. Jimmy has hit the nail on the head with at least a portion of what is going on with OP's situation last night. I would just revise (lol) to: he OR she who cares less controls the relationship. Fair or unfair, it's part of the phenomena that is going in that situation last night. Also many people get their own value via others who are not so easily attainable thus the act of "getting" them transfers value to them (so they think, partially has truth). The "not caring" is shorthand for confidence in that sort of environment where people are not paying much attention or don't have the experience to. Agree with those that said the playfulness is a big factor in why OP's friend was doing well! I think many girls know it's said in jest and it becomes a playful challenge. She is not taking the jerkiness at face value or fully considering it from a long-range, serious boyfriend POV. Lastly I would say that the guys who use sweeping negative generalizations about women to explain away their lack of dating success are at least equally unattractive in their bitterness and cynicism as guys who playfully insult and yes maybe are jerks. Equally unattractive at the very least.
Ruby Slippers Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Well yeah, but men don't say they just want a sweet, kind, loving girl. They include generally include pretty and or hot. I don't know if its a vestige of societal rules or what but it seems like women have been coached not to include that up to the point that they've genuinely forgotten how important it is to them. I think most women know exactly how important physical attraction is to them. Like men, most women would prefer to be with someone who gets their pulse racing. But some will relax their desires in favor of other qualities more important to a stable, lasting relationship, qualities of character. The hottest guys can afford to be more flippant and less considerate, because they know there are always other girls who will swoon in their presence. 1
katiegrl Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Was he unavailable? Still not sure on what you mean by that but I did give an example of what I thought it is. Was he aloof? Yea in the sense that he didn't really care about what they had to say and yet these are the same kinds that claim they like men to listen and care about what they say. When I made that mistake years ago it landed me straight in the friend zone. Now, I'm sort of in the middle with my approach so I do ok with women, but I cant go jerk out like this guy did last night. And yes he was definitely disrespectful where one said woman got upset and raised her voice by telling him to stop being mean to her but later gave him a chance anyway. Women just aren't being honest here. No.....from the outside you interpreted it as *disrespectful* ....it seems like you also interpreted her "you're so mean!" comment as her being *upset*. Hardly. Do you know what bantering is? Back and forth teasing? When meeting a guy for the first time ....I love that type of banter and teasing! I am not the only one either! Sure he acts cocky, being "mean" ....and hey I might even *pretend* to be mad ....but I am not really mad....and he knows I am not mad ...just like I know he is not really a jerk (not yet anyway....lol)... It is all in good fun, and it sure beats those guys who walk on eggshells with us ....trying to say all the *right* things ...placing us on a pedestal....who end up being passive-aggressive pretending to be nice ...all the while harboring resentment for being rejected so often....all because said guy just does not know how to attract women, or if he does initially, maintain her atttaction. 1
Author Easyguy14 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 Jimmy has hit the nail on the head with at least a portion of what is going on with OP's situation last night. I would just revise (lol) to: he OR she who cares less controls the relationship. Fair or unfair, it's part of the phenomena that is going in that situation last night. Also many people get their own value via others who are not so easily attainable thus the act of "getting" them transfers value to them (so they think, partially has truth). The "not caring" is shorthand for confidence in that sort of environment where people are not paying much attention or don't have the experience to. Agree with those that said the playfulness is a big factor in why OP's friend was doing well! I think many girls know it's said in jest and it becomes a playful challenge. She is not taking the jerkiness at face value or fully considering it from a long-range, serious boyfriend POV. Lastly I would say that the guys who use sweeping negative generalizations about women to explain away their lack of dating success are at least equally unattractive in their bitterness and cynicism as guys who playfully insult and yes maybe are jerks. Equally unattractive at the very least. I don't think I'm being negative in the slightest here. These women that was at the party came in there acting important at first but my colleague blew a hole in their façade by turning things in his favor. It just seemed to be a very childish method. His sort of rude behavior usually would work with a young silly girl, but not women in their 30s or late 20s but this wasn't the case last night as you all can see. I'm just calling the situation as I see it. 11 out of the 17 women fell victim to this nonsense. The other 6 I don't really know of what happen since he walked away from said women so I take it they must've caught on or didn't intrigue him enough. Who knows? But this stuff should not be going on with us adults. We're past this foolishness so I thought.
Versacehottie Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 True, but men are pretty upfront about this. If we weren't there would be tons of threads with women saying, "I don't get it, I was nice, why is he dating that a_hole?!" Wait, women aren't upfront about wanting a guy they find good-looking? Ha! since when? Not ashamed to admit it upfront *was it "how I met your mother" that had the crazy/hot grid for women? Guess hot/jerk grid applies too. But as I'm sure you know crazy/hot relationships don't usually go on forever and same with hot/jerk ones.
Author Easyguy14 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 No.....from the outside you interpreted it as *disrespectful* ....it seems like you also interpreted her "you're so mean!" comment as her being *upset*. Hardly. Do you know what bantering is? Back and forth teasing? When meeting a guy for the first time ....I love that type of banter and teasing! I am not the only one either! Sure he acts cocky, being "mean" ....and hey I might even *pretend* to be mad ....but I am not really mad....and he knows I am not mad ...just like I know he is not really a jerk (not yet anyway....lol)... It is all in good fun, and it sure beats those guys who walk on eggshells with us ....trying to say all the *right* things ...placing us on a pedestal....who end up being passive-aggressive pretending to be nice ...all the while harboring resentment for being rejected so often....all because said guy just does not know how to attract women, or if he does initially, maintain her atttaction. I hope you're not referring to me because I can maintain attraction. Its just most women don't really know what they want these days so they roam. I'm also referring to said lady looking genuinely upset with him when she raised her voice at him and told him to cut it out now! I saw this with my own eyes and was glad when she stormed off but then she had a change of heart and gave him another chance. I guess his jerkiness was better than nothing at all is what I'm seeing here. I still expect better from women close to 30.
Versacehottie Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I don't think I'm being negative in the slightest here. These women that was at the party came in there acting important at first but my colleague blew a hole in their façade by turning things in his favor. It just seemed to be a very childish method. His sort of rude behavior usually would work with a young silly girl, but not women in their 30s or late 20s but this wasn't the case last night as you all can see. I'm just calling the situation as I see it. 11 out of the 17 women fell victim to this nonsense. The other 6 I don't really know of what happen since he walked away from said women so I take it they must've caught on or didn't intrigue him enough. Who knows? But this stuff should not be going on with us adults. We're past this foolishness so I thought. ok, you are not the only one commenting soooooo it could apply to others as well. Anyway, don't disregard the playfulness of your friend (?). You seem to be (from what you wrote here) the type who approaches meeting girls with a serious or literal and straightforward approach. Now you have evidence that it's not the only thing that works. I think PUA stuff is completely transparent to a lot of women. So maybe it wasn't that. It was NYE so maybe the girls were in a lighter, more carefree mood that his approach works better with compare to a serious one. I hope this is just a rant and because it happened in last 24 hours it's still fresh otherwise if this is how you think about dating unfairness most of the time, trust me, just as transparent as the PUA stuff. It sounds negative just to be honest. You get a break because it's your thread and it's fresh to you today but if you were to come back with these type of "thoughts" time and time again, it IS affecting your dating compared to other guys. 1
thecrucible Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I don't like when guys assume that women like jerks. We don't! I am old enough to prioritise the right qualities in a man. Also I am turned off by guys that seem to have style over substance or like they are playing a game. I think I am intrigued somewhat by a guy I can't get a read on straight away. I like playfulness but that doesn't mean being a jerk. You want to feel like the guy is relaxed with himself and exudes a certain degree of self-assurance. You can tell the guys who are tending towards being a jerk because they employ PUA style chat up lines or they are the type to want to be the centre of attention. 2
Versacehottie Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I hope you're not referring to me because I can maintain attraction. Its just most women don't really know what they want these days so they roam. I'm also referring to said lady looking genuinely upset with him when she raised her voice at him and told him to cut it out now! I saw this with my own eyes and was glad when she stormed off but then she had a change of heart and gave him another chance. I guess his jerkiness was better than nothing at all is what I'm seeing here. I still expect better from women close to 30. Why are you extrapolating the behavior of one woman (in example above-I know there were others) and making conclusions about dating? The safest conclusion to make about that is that she is one woman who for whatever reason (her own craziness, desperation or overwhelming attraction, boredom or drunkenness possibly) behaved like that. It's a limiting conclusion to come to--for you. Maybe you can reword your statement to say: Some women are attracted to guys IN SPITE of seemingly jerky behavior. His approach is not my approach but then I probably wouldn't have a mental connection with the type of women he attracts. No sense in getting all bitter about it. If his behavior is so appalling to you, why are you primarily blaming the women? And better yet, why use him to go out if you are so far apart on the spectrum? TBH, you sound like you had hoped some of his outgoing, gregarious nature would have benefits for you last night in the venues and with girls and when it didn't, well now you are sour grapes. That's what it seems like. 2
thecrucible Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 OP, do you feel threatened by those guys because they are getting further with certain woman and you observe them to act like jerks; while your approach isn't working as well as you think it ought to? I think that rather than feeling threatened by those guys, you should take a leaf from their book. Incorporate aspects of their technique, the non-jerky stuff of course. Out of curiosity, what sort of jerky things did they say? I remember recently watching a dating advice video for men on Youtube. I can't recall who it was by but its conclusion was that rather than try to show a woman how much of a decent guy you are, your focus at first meeting is simply to build attraction. Once you have your foot in the door by creating 'the spark', she can get to know you gradually and find out all your awesome qualities. I think this is true for women too. I know for a fact that I haven't got anywhere when I used to take the approach of showing what a good potential girlfriend I would be as the primary focus. I've gotten further before by being mysterious, showing my fun side and using flirtatious teasing. 1
Maggie4 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I remember there was a poster on this forum that got a lot of attention, from both men and women, by being contentious. His thread went on for like over 15 pages, not because people all wanted to help this one person in particular with his "problem", but because he would twist things around and put words in people's mouths, so people continued to reply to him, trying to explain. Some people learn from a young age, that misbehaving gets attention, albeit negative attention, but attention nevertheless. I think you shouldn't be too quick to judge the women who talked to your annoying colleague. I see people spend time talking to annoying forum posters that have a way to hook people in.
seekingluck Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) I think theres a HUGE percentage of women that are like this. They interact with the guy because he's sort of annoying at first, and women want to put him in his place, and then somehow, as she wakes up in his bed the next morning, she is wondering how and why she slept with a guy that annoys her so much Not me. [They] get made fun of. But as for run of the mill teasing? It is fun. I love having fake arguments with people. A friendly disagreement over the best fast and the furious installment is fun! Edited January 4, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Blanco Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Most of what's described in the OP sounds like playful banter. Women do like that. Heck, most people like that. It's a refreshing alternative to the trite, nice guy talking points that end up feeling like some sterile job interview. There's a major gap between playful, flirtatious banter and "A-hole" behavior. The guys who are unable to differentiate between the two end up assuming that women like jerks. And they themselves also usually have the social grace of a falling anvil.
Wewon Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Wait, women aren't upfront about wanting a guy they find good-looking? Ha! since when? Not ashamed to admit it upfront *was it "how I met your mother" that had the crazy/hot grid for women? Guess hot/jerk grid applies too. But as I'm sure you know crazy/hot relationships don't usually go on forever and same with hot/jerk ones. Ofcourse women prefer someone that is good looking, but let's be honest, women are also quick to differentiate themselves from men by downplaying how much looks (and sex in general) influences them. Men are notoriously candid about where they prioritize sex. That's why we're never surprised (or feel confused) when we here a guy tell a "crazy ex girlfriend" story. There's no paradox, we know men prioritize looks very high, even to their own detriment sometimes. Behind every, 'my girlfriend is a B' story there is usually a pretty face, a killer body or mindblowing sex or occasionally a guy with low self-esteem. And I think that this gets us closer to the crux of confusion. Its not that women "like" jerks, but when asked directly (as most guys have at some point in time) women will often times only speak of the most wholesome of traits that they look for in a mate. If taken at face value, everyone woman would be chasing Richey Cunningham from Happy Days (dating myself), but that's clearly not the case in real life. Contrary to how men are perceived, they spend a lot of time trying to figure out what women want and maybe it comes down to how its asked. There's a reason that there is such a cliche of the friendzoned guy listening to his female friend complaining about not being able to meet a nice guy in one breath, while in another complain about the guy that she is dating telling her yet another lie, forgetting some important event, pushing her birthday back to go hang out with a college buddy or caught making a move on another girl. Its these kinds of behaviors that lead to the conclusion of "Well gee, maybe she likes the conflict. Maybe she likes having to 'tame' some a_hole and being nice is seen as boring." It may not be totally accurate, but it is drawn from somewhere. My point here isn't to say that women like jerks or to encourage men to treat women badly, but instead to show that this perception isn't being spun from whole clothe or plucked out of thin air as a way to deflect from some short coming. This is why I say that men and women aren't really too different in what we want or respond to, its just that men are more upfront about the source of our follies. 1
basil67 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 So has your guy done his test by being fun and friendly with women? I bet he'd also get given numbers.
Recommended Posts