The Art of Seduction

[GingerVixen]

Stephanie, what you decide to do with your life - and your relationships is not of my concern, but you have to understand that it is very concerning when someone says it is better to become someone you're not to please a man because "sometimes being yourself doesn't work".

 

Being yourself ALWAYS work because that's your only option! You can't get rid of yourself!

 

If you think changing who you are because of a man will keep him interested, you'll risk losing your identity , your self respect, and more - when a guy realizes a girl is changing everything about herself only to please him , he loses respect for her and sees her as a desperate, shallow woman.

 

We are all warning you because it is very likely that if you keep thinking this way you will get terribly hurt later. If you don't think you're loveable for who you really are you should really look for some counseling because that's a huge lack of confidence and a sign of very low self esteem.

[basil67]

So as far as I understand nobody here supports the idea of self-improvement even if it may promise a happier relationship..o'well. And yes, guys don't just all in love with you unconditionally, there are things you do/don't do that determine the level of their attraction to you, which was my original question, what are those qualities, other than, you know, being yourself :D we don't need to debate here over what works and what doesn't, why not just share our opinion on what worked in our relationship with our guy and what pushed them away?

 

I believe in self improvement. But what had me shaking my head in disbelief was your list of things to improve on and your belief that men want a perfect girl. It was all just so 1980's.

 

I keep my guy interested by being interesting. I make him laugh. Rather than him being attracted to my cooking (not that there's anything wrong with my cooking) the food attraction comes from us both loving adventurous eating together.

 

I'm not rude or obnoxious to him and I don't yell at him. I treat him as an equal and I don't expect him to put me on a pedestal.

[Poutrew]

Speaking as a guy, at a party, you will find me in the kitchen chatting up the cooks. LOL. If I have a choice of a 10 who can't cook or even boil water but is fantastic in the sack, or a 5 who can cook well but is not so good in bed, I'll choose the 5 any day. Hey, what can I say? I like cake...

 

 

I once overheard a conversation between a group of young women, all good looking and dressed stylish, who were bitching amongst themselves about how they couldn't get a decent man, but the 'homely dogs' they used to tease in high school all found good men who stick to them like 'frosting on a bun'. They honestly didn't have a clue as to what power these homely gals used to land good men. One of them speculated that their daddies probably bribed the guys with money to marry their daughters... Totally clueless...

[Gaeta]

OP is Russian. If she is living in Russia or if she is recently in North America it explains her thinking. Maybe she was born here but those beleif were taught to her from her birth. We are debating important cultural differences and nothing will break through her. I had 2 close experiences with Russian women and this is how they think. There is no changing their minds.

[GingerVixen]

Speaking as a guy, at a party, you will find me in the kitchen chatting up the cooks. LOL. If I have a choice of a 10 who can't cook or even boil water but is fantastic in the sack, or a 5 who can cook well but is not so good in bed, I'll choose the 5 any day. Hey, what can I say? I like cake...

 

 

I once overheard a conversation between a group of young women, all good looking and dressed stylish, who were bitching amongst themselves about how they couldn't get a decent man, but the 'homely dogs' they used to tease in high school all found good men who stick to them like 'frosting on a bun'. They honestly didn't have a clue as to what power these homely gals used to land good men. One of them speculated that their daddies probably bribed the guys with money to marry their daughters... Totally clueless...

 

Are you looking for a cook or for a woman?

Imagine if I said "the perfect husband for me is the man who can change a tire. If he can't change a tire, it's a dealbreaker"

 

I have also seen many men cheat on perfect cooks, perfect mothers, perfect role models and leave these amazing women for women they met in bars and clubs because they gave them amazing blow jobs.

 

So well, I guess being a Stepford Wife does not equal happiness.

[Buddhist]

The other part of this argument is that if you're attracting a man based on how you look/how you cook that will all be fine while you are 23. But one day you will be 43 and there will still be 23 year olds in the world. Then what? If you haven't learned to base your sense of self on other things you're in trouble because now you're 'competing' with people half your age. If your husband is also the kind to be choosing a wife based on her beauty then he's also the kind to trade her in for a new model at a later date.

[hasaquestion]

Be yourself is pretty useless advice. When was the last time a guy saw a porky lady with jean-overalls and pigtails walking down the street and wolfing down ice cream, and thought god DAMN, she's really being herself... oh mama?

 

Once should strive to find a balance between having a strong sense of self and adapting intelligently to the outside world.

 

Blindly encouraging people to "be themselves" without regard to that balance is just as bad for them as encouraging them to abandon their individuality and conform. Just damaging in the opposite direction.

[GingerVixen]

Be yourself is pretty useless advice. When was the last time a guy saw a porky lady with jean-overalls and pigtails walking down the street and wolfing down ice cream, and thought god DAMN, she's really being herself... oh mama?

 

Once should strive to find a balance between having a strong sense of self and adapting intelligently to the outside world.

 

Blindly encouraging people to "be themselves" without regard to that balance is just as bad for them as encouraging them to abandon their individuality and conform. Just damaging in the opposite direction.

 

I disagree with what you say but the bolded part made me crack up. Thank you.

[callingyouuu]

The happiness we feel (inside ourselves) and self-worth comes FIRST.... which will result in our relationships being more successful and people treating us better and more respectfully.

 

One should never allow another person or RL to define who they are, their happiness or self-worth.

 

This is the key to your question, OP. None of us are against self-improvement. I just feel the motivation for self improvement is more sustainable and rewarding if you're improving yourself for you and not because it will enhance your relationships with other people. That's just a side effect of becoming a better person

 

Also as a guy, knowing that a girl is talented without needing approval of others to keep that up is very sexy

[Stephanie91]

OP is Russian. If she is living in Russia or if she is recently in North America it explains her thinking. Maybe she was born here but those beliefs were taught to her from her birth. We are debating important cultural differences and nothing will break through her. I had 2 close experiences with Russian women and this is how they think. There is no changing their minds.

I was born and raised in Russia and moved here 6 years ago. Culturally women think differently, yes, compared to Western women, we are not too proud and too self-confident to accept the fact that there are things you should learn as a woman if you want to be a good girlfriend/wife. To bluntly say that "Hey this is me with all my quirks and weirdness, take it or leave" is not productive to me. Everyone needs improvement, everyone needs to learn new skills, whether it's for their interpersonal relationships or career. Being yourself is just a favorite American term, derived from $20 self-help books and similar movies, while it really doesn't do anything to help you become better.

[Stephanie91]

Be yourself is pretty useless advice. When was the last time a guy saw a porky lady with jean-overalls and pigtails walking down the street and wolfing down ice cream, and thought god DAMN, she's really being herself... oh mama?

 

Once should strive to find a balance between having a strong sense of self and adapting intelligently to the outside world.

 

Blindly encouraging people to "be themselves" without regard to that balance is just as bad for them as encouraging them to abandon their individuality and conform. Just damaging in the opposite direction.

Well said!

Look, it really depends who you're giving that advice to...if it's someone already successful and accomplished in life then yes, obviously being themselves worked for them, but if it's an advice for young people who are still going through the life's ups and downs, it's just blind optimism, thinking that you'll do well by just being yourself...what if being myself includes eating crap, being extremely argumentative, cussing like a sailor and other unpleasant things?

Edited December 29, 2015 by Stephanie91

[katiegrl]

and I am Russian, so what?

 

LOL...oh man, okay allow me spell it out for ya.

 

You criticized Gaeta for spelling "independent" incorrectly. Implying she was not credible because if it.

 

She then advised you she is French.

 

Thus, English is NOT her first language, French is....which explains why she spelled independently incorrectly.

 

Capiche?

[Stephanie91]

The other part of this argument is that if you're attracting a man based on how you look/how you cook that will all be fine while you are 23. But one day you will be 43 and there will still be 23 year olds in the world. Then what? If you haven't learned to base your sense of self on other things you're in trouble because now you're 'competing' with people half your age. If your husband is also the kind to be choosing a wife based on her beauty then he's also the kind to trade her in for a new model at a later date.

Building attraction is not limited to looking good or cooking, these are just basic examples mentioned by many. At 43 your man will automatically look at the 20 somethings, it's not him, it's biology and subconscious urge to reproduce with healthy and fit mates.

[Stephanie91]

LOL...oh man, okay allow me spell it out for ya.

 

You criticized Gaeta for spelling "independent" incorrectly. Implying she was not credible because if it.

 

She then advised you she is French.

 

Thus, English is NOT her first language, French is....which explains why she spelled independently incorrectly.

 

Capiche?

I am sorry, do you always flood threads with irrelevant posts? If so, please stop doing that. If you don't have anything new to add to the discussion then find a new thread to participate into. Thanks

[Stephanie91]

Are you looking for a cook or for a woman?

Imagine if I said "the perfect husband for me is the man who can change a tire. If he can't change a tire, it's a dealbreaker"

 

I have also seen many men cheat on perfect cooks, perfect mothers, perfect role models and leave these amazing women for women they met in bars and clubs because they gave them amazing blow jobs.

 

So well, I guess being a Stepford Wife does not equal happiness.

Generalizations again. Amazing blow jobs won't take your husband away for good. Maybe for a short fling, but not for good. And if that's what's missing then learn a skill or two

[katiegrl]

I am sorry, do you always flood threads with irrelevant posts? If so, please stop doing that. If you don't have anything new to add to the discussion then find a new thread to participate into. Thanks

 

No need to be sorry hun, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Just thought I would explain the relevance of Gaeta posting she was French, since you apparently didn't get it the first time...and responded with a snide comment as a result.. in addition to criticizing her English, which was a low blow as well.

 

That's all.

[Stephanie91]

No need to be sorry hun, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Just thought I would explain the relevance of Gaeta posting she was French, since you apparently didn't get it the first time...and responded with a snide comment as a result.. in addition to criticizing her English, which was a low blow as well.

 

That's all.

I did get it the first time, being French doesn't justify typing with errors, English is my second language as well but I check things before posting...but yeah, still has no relevance to the topic...

[katiegrl]

I did get it the first time, being French doesn't justify typing with errors, English is my second language as well but I check things before posting...but yeah,

 

----

 

**still has no relevance to the topic***...

 

Oh, you mean like your criticizing her English was?

 

Okay got it!

 

Done.

[Buddhist]

Be yourself is pretty useless advice. When was the last time a guy saw a porky lady with jean-overalls and pigtails walking down the street and wolfing down ice cream,

 

And why does be yourself to men always translate to....be fat, unattractive and a poor eater? Little wonder there are so many women with self esteem issues when guys continually bleet out that we are not good enough or somehow unattractive when we are being ourselves. I know plenty of women who are themselves and who also happen to be highly attractive as well.

[Buddhist]

I was born and raised in Russia and moved here 6 years ago. Culturally women think differently, yes, compared to Western women, we are not too proud and too self-confident to accept the fact that there are things you should learn as a woman if you want to be a good girlfriend/wife. To bluntly say that "Hey this is me with all my quirks and weirdness, take it or leave" is not productive to me. Everyone needs improvement, everyone needs to learn new skills, whether it's for their interpersonal relationships or career. Being yourself is just a favorite American term, derived from $20 self-help books and similar movies, while it really doesn't do anything to help you become better.

 

And yet you suffer from the misapprehension that people who are confident in themselves also are uninterested in self improvement. Which is not the case. Logical disconnect there.

[loveweary11]

Stephanie has got it figured out.

 

Don't let anyone detract you, Stephanie. You're right. Your approach is correct.

 

The examples you used offended a lot of people here, but like anything in life, there is always room for self improvement.

 

Those that are unwilling/too stubborn to improve themselves will not make their partner happy at the same level you are talking about.

 

I think your examples offended some people is all. Otherwise, you are ahead of the crowd hete, talking about a very advanced topic that requires one to detach from their ego for a moment.

 

Many Western women were raised not to detach from their egos, but rather project and scream their egos.

 

It's always me, me, me with them.

 

Only rarely do you find one that's down to Earth and thinking of others.

 

I do just like you are saying and only enter into relationships with women who are humble enough to do the same... to put the *other* person's needs first.

 

That's what I do in relationships and it's worked very, very well.

 

You are on the right track. I think every guy will have different things that make him happy. Cooking, for instance... I love cooking. I prefer to do most of it. I also am nit interested in massages. Never get sore. I like cuddling, a nice head rub and some edging.

 

We'll all be different. You'll have to play to the individual.

[Buddhist]

Many Western women were raised not to detach from their egos, but rather project and scream their egos.

 

What? You mean like men do?

 

I do just like you are saying and only enter into relationships with women who are humble enough to do the same... to put the *other* person's needs first.

 

Yes learn this now. It's a cardinal sin for you to have needs, express them or heaven forbid actually put someone other than your boyfriend first.

 

We'll all be different. You'll have to play to the individual.

 

Yes Stephanie, you will have to turn yourself inside out for each and every single man trying to discover who you should be so you can keep him. Enjoy that journey. Of course there are many men who want a woman to focus solely on him, pander to his whims and be as unchallenging of his self professed authority as possible. I don't date them personally as experience tells me they are more trouble than they are worth.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Buddhist

[Stephanie91]

From several male respondents I figured men understand me better and women are just too focused on their ego thinking they're too good to even try seducing their men...maybe I should've requested only male responses in my original post

[Stephanie91]

Stephanie has got it figured out.

 

Don't let anyone detract you, Stephanie. You're right. Your approach is correct.

 

The examples you used offended a lot of people here, but like anything in life, there is always room for self improvement.

 

Those that are unwilling/too stubborn to improve themselves will not make their partner happy at the same level you are talking about.

 

I think your examples offended some people is all. Otherwise, you are ahead of the crowd hete, talking about a very advanced topic that requires one to detach from their ego for a moment.

 

Many Western women were raised not to detach from their egos, but rather project and scream their egos.

 

It's always me, me, me with them.

 

Only rarely do you find one that's down to Earth and thinking of others.

 

I do just like you are saying and only enter into relationships with women who are humble enough to do the same... to put the *other* person's needs first.

 

That's what I do in relationships and it's worked very, very well.

 

You are on the right track. I think every guy will have different things that make him happy. Cooking, for instance... I love cooking. I prefer to do most of it. I also am nit interested in massages. Never get sore. I like cuddling, a nice head rub and some edging.

 

We'll all be different. You'll have to play to the individual.

At least one person gets me Well I'd also add that self-improvement through learning the art of seduction is not only designed to please your guy but to feel better about yourself as a woman, feeling powerful and seductive...and what's wrong with pleasing your man? Is it also against feminist codex? lol

[Stephanie91]

I am not against feminism if it's "done" right. Yes, social and economic equality are desired outcomes, however, Northern American women do it wrong. Most are too attach to their ego, unwilling to change or tolerate hardships and jump the gun at the slightest sign of discomfort. That is why there are so many divorces here and most don't last more than 5 years or so. I've met women who refused to have children, the "childfree" crowd, women who despise housework, to some even embracing their own sexual vulnerability is a sign of weakness...no wonder why the thread has become a debate and not a discussion.