My relationship of 2.5years in shambles. Possible asåergers

[adriandwor]

Hello everyone

 

2.5 years ago in April in Denmark over friend's dinner table there was this woman red hair,purple flower dress that invoked a feeling i never quite had before and right there in that spot i wished to myself "God I want a woman like that to be my wife." Two months later we became a couple and for a while everything smelled like heaven. Until the day the fairy tale stopped short and we stepped into the world.

 

2.5 years later, today, i spent my first christmas alone in our apartament while she stayed in the hospital with our new born and one of our friends who sacrificied time with her family because my gf "really needed someone to be with her."

 

I'll mention single incidents that we get into and maybe it will give you an idea of our issues. I'm very unconfrontational. I don't like to fight. My gf fights or quarrels often. She got almost thrown out of school few months ago for yelling at faculty.

 

Our son was born on Sunday. He has an infection now and we are supposed to stay in the hospital for about 10 days. In the hospital they connected him to different cables and my gf on the second day asked me to hold him (he was sleeping) and i refused telling her ill wait until they remove the cables because ill probably make them all fly by accident. She told me I'm a horrible father and shouldn't get children if i don't want to hold him. Proceeded to _force_ me to hold him and i got angry.

 

On 23rd we were having a cozy time in the hospital until she heard that the house is still not clean after we left for the hospital. She got angry about it and yelled that i'm incapable of running a household and she had to do everything herself. After a prolonged rant on how useless i am and can't do anything, i called her a stupid bitch and left. She came home yesterday briefly and first thing she said was "Op you're a horrible father and you shouldn't get any custody of the child". Already this morning she's writing to me how much she and the child needs me and that i need to stop getting angry because SHE TELLS ME THE TRUTH.

 

Back in July was the first time i slapped her in the face. Hard. We were moving. The day before we still had things to pack and she woke up around 15.30 and started commanding from the bed what i should and shouldn't do. Got angry and told her she should get off her ass and start doing things herself. She's not my boss. We didn't speak together for the rest of the day and i finished packing. The next day i and few friends moved everything from morning well until evening and we have a lot of things very heavy wood furniture. Could barely move my arms at the end of the day. I went to sleep and she stayed up with her friend chatting past 3am. She woke me up and was like "Are you gonna say sorry for getting angry at me the day before?" I didn't feel sorry but instead took her hand kissed her a told her let's sleep now. It's late. It didn't stop her and instead i had to put on my pants and leave to get sleep somewhere else. She blocked the door (while the friend was in the sleeping room) and said all angry "You're not going anywhere. You gonna apologize to me NOW! I got out of the house and she kept following me and pushing me and yelling in my ears until I snapped and slapped her in the face and she fell and i left.

At no point did i try to create a fight i wasn't even angry up to that point. I just wanted to sleep.

 

Another one: She needed help with math. Didn't want to do it the day before so we agreed to do it in the morning. We set up alarm at 7. She woke up at 7 and i said i'll wake up at 7.30 instead because i'm tired. She ****ing exploded on me that we agreed to wake up at 7. She pulled the blanket away and tried to pull me out of bed by force. (I'm not kidding) I slammed her to the wall and said don't every do this again.

 

I often feel like I'm being degraded and not respected in this relationship. Constantly being called lazy and inadequate and i simply just can't live with a person that does not have regard for me. Any mistake I make, my God, she's still talking about things i did wrong one year ago. Anything i do wrong she just won't stop talking about it for a day or two. Whenever we talk about our issues she always says "But I only asked you _nicely_" [about things that need to be done]. There was many times that i said I'm done with this relationship and i wanted to move on. Some of my friends saw how she treated me but won't just tell her.

 

When we met we went to live with one of her friends in this very beautiful house in the middle of the forest and they were fighting and yelling at each other every single fking day until one day i just couldn't handle it and told them to **** off and they're crazy and i packed my bag and left and they followed me and apologized heartily and said thats their relationship and will try to think about me next time and they didn't fight so much for the rest of the time while we were there.

 

They told me my gf has Asbergers back then and i didn't think about it so much back then. I also told her don't ever talk to me like you do to him and she said she won't and when i remind her about it she denies she ever talks to me like she did to him (and she called him a loser and they're still friends. )

 

Whenever we talk about it and I tell her she's disrespectful she says she has a lot of respect for me and she loves me and she hasn't done anything wrong. She always brings back this Asbergers thing and sends me info about it and i tell her she should have told me in the beginning she's an ******* that she thinks whole world revolves around her and then i would have understood. And then she cries because she cant do any better and people have been telling her shes disrespectful and she wants to make this relationship work but then tells me im a horrible father and i shouldn't get more children.

 

Random stuff. My best friend is coming for tea. Hasn't worked in a month. Drills for oil in Norway. Loves his job. Relies on it good pay. Says they don't have anything at the moment. Gf tells him all serious. They will probably not call you again. The guy really hopes they will soon. She says stuff like that to people often. When they have hopes she just blatantly kills them and then says people don't want to spend time with her.

 

I read the articles she sends me on how to live with people with asbergers but i simply just don't think that anyone should be allowed to behave that way.

 

I'm 25 years old and i make mistakes and i don't need another person to bust my balls for days nonstop after i drill one hole too many or shelf was hanging not straight. At the end i don't really want to do anything just so she shuts her mouth that never closes. But even then it doesn't help because i'm not doing anything and that's another pretext to talk.

 

Also it does something to my psyche when i constantly hear comments on how inadequate i am and how to make my life better and i can manage these things at a time and then i snap and i hate this woman for just ruining my life that otherwise is good. I can't learn when i'm being criticized and well not just criticized. She's a fire breating dragon. She's like a tank that goes on unrelentlessly until you're brought down to your knees and beg for forgiveness from the woman that one minute says you can't do anything and the next that she loves you and wants to be with you and marry you. What the **** man?

 

Sorry about this unstructured rant but i feel like i'm gonna go crazy here.

Now she's writing to come to the hospital and that she needs me and loves me and that i shouldn't get so angry when she just wants the house clean and things to be done. "just"

 

For the rest of the time our relationship is really nice.

 

I'd be more than happy to answer any questions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

**tl;dr**: In relationship with a woman that i feel has not respect or regard for me. Often belittles me but then tells me she loves me. Otherwise we have a good time together. She claims Asbergers. I feel like i'm gonna go crazy if this doesn't resolve.

[Downtown]

Possible Asperger's?

Adrian, welcome to the LoveShack Forum. Yes, Asperger's is a possibility. That is not what you're describing here, however. Most of the behaviors you describe -- e.g., the easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, low empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something, like chickenpox, that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

My gf fights or quarrels often. She got almost thrown out of school few months ago for yelling at faculty.

The terms "anger" and "rage" appear in 3 of the 9 defining traits for BPD (i.e., in a third of the symptoms used to diagnose BPD). In contrast, those terms do not appear in any of the symptoms used to diagnose Asperger's (now called mild Autism).

 

The reason that BPD is so strongly associated with anger, rages, and temper tantrums is that -- like very young children -- BPDers have very little skill in controlling their own emotions. It is believed that this occurs because a BPDer experiences a trauma in early childhood (e.g., abuse or abandonment) that -- together with a genetic predisposition -- causes her emotional development to freeze at the level of a 3- or 4-year-old child. The BPDer nonetheless will have the intelligence, cunning, knowledge, and body strength of a full grown woman.

 

Moreover, if your GF really is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds.

 

Hence, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. This does not imply, however, that a BPDer gets a free pass to abuse people and throw hissy fits. On the contrary, it is important -- for their own well being -- that BPDers be held fully accountable for their own bad behavior and bad decisions. This means that, like young children, they must be allowed (within reason) to suffer the logical consequences of their bad behavior. Otherwise, they will have no incentive to acquire the skills needed to manage their own emotions.

 

One minute she says you can't do anything and the next that she loves you and wants to be with you and marry you. What the **** man?

This rapid flip between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) is another hallmark of BPD. It occurs because, like young children, BPDers are only capable of handling one intense feeling at a time. They accomplish this by "splitting off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., love for you), putting it entirely out of reach of their conscious minds.

 

In this way, BPDers and young children are able to avoid having to deal with strong conflicting feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships. The result is that BPDers (and young kids) do black-white thinking wherein people are categorized as "all good" and "all bad." And they can recategorize you, from one extreme to the other, in ten seconds. Moreover, a BPDer will be very puzzled by your inability to do such rapid flips between Jekyll and Hyde. You therefore will be accused of "holding grudges" and your inability to "get over it."

 

I feel like i'm gonna go crazy here.

Adrian, if you've really been living with a BPDer for 2.5 years, "going crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

There was this woman red hair, purple flower dress that invoked a feeling i never quite had before and right there in that spot i wished to myself "God I want a woman like that to be my wife."

If your GF has strong BPD traits, that instant connection is to be expected. BPDers are very easy to fall in love with. One reason is that they project a vulnerability and warmth of expression that otherwise is only seen in young children. Another reason is that, having only a weak unstable self identity, a BPDer typically will immediately mirror all the best features of your personality. The result is that both of you will be convinced you've met your "soul mate."

 

Already this morning she's writing to me how much she and the child needs me and that i need to stop getting angry because SHE TELLS ME THE TRUTH.

She very likely believes she is speaking "The Truth" if she is a BPDer. Being unable to manage her emotions, a BPDer frequently experiences feelings so intense that she is absolutely convinced they MUST be true. And a week later, when she is experiencing an opposite set of feelings, she will believe those must be true too. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion."

 

Importantly, this does NOT mean a BPDer is crazy. Thought distortions occur in all of us every time we experience intense feelings. Indeed, by the time we are in high school, we already know our judgment goes out the window whenever our feelings are intense. This is why we all try to keep our mouths shut when we're very angry -- and try to wait two years before buying the ring when we're very infatuated. Well, BPDers are like this too -- only more so, because their intense feelings occur much more frequently and at stronger levels.

 

Any mistake I make, my God, she's still talking about things i did wrong one year ago. Anything i do wrong she just won't stop talking about it for a day or two.

BPDers have such a fragile sense of self that, to the extent they have any lasting self identity at all, it is one of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because a BPDer maintains a death grip on that false self image, she will tolerate your presence in the R/S only as long as you continue "validating" it.

 

There are only two roles for you to play that will provide that validation. One is to be "The Rescuer," as you were during the infatuation period and sporadically throughout the rest of the R/S. As long as you are trying to rescue her from unhappiness, the obvious implication is that she must be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be working so hard to save her. Of course, a BPDer doesn't really want to be rescued. Instead, she only seeks the validation. That's why every time you pull a BPDer from the raging seas, she will promptly jump back into the water as soon as your head is turned.

 

The other role for you to play is that of "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her unhappiness and every misfortune. As long as you continue to take the blame for everything, you will be providing the validation she sorely needs for her eternal "victim" status.

 

The result, of course, is that a BPDer keeps a mental list of every mistake you've ever made (real or imagined). And she will pull out the ENTIRE list for nearly every argument, no matter how small the issue. My BPDer exW, for example, would not hesitate to talk about some imagined transgression I had committed 12 years earlier -- as a way to explain and defend her current rage over an offense I supposedly had just done.

 

Gf tells him all serious. They will probably not call you again. The guy really hopes they will soon. She says stuff like that to people often. When they have hopes she just blatantly kills them and then says people don't want to spend time with her.

These insensitive and inappropriate comments are one of the red flags for Asperger's, as you already recognize. My understanding, however, is that it is rare for Asperger's and BPD to co-occur in the same person. I've only seen one study finding such a co-occurrence and it was based on a small number of very sick hospital patients. See Borderline Personality Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorder in Females -- A Cross-Sectional Study.

 

Generally, Aspies are known for being capable of being content alone with their special interests, and for having difficulty forming even one relationship. In contrast, BPDers typically HATE being alone because they need someone with a strong personality to supply the missing self identity. An important issue, then, is whether your GF exhibits a strong fear of abandonment. For example, do you see frequent irrational jealousy, attempts to isolate you away from friends and family, or a strong neediness for you to be in her presence?

 

For the rest of the time our relationship is really nice.

If your GF has strong BPD traits, this is to be expected. When a BPDer is "splitting you white," she will adore you and behave very VERY good.

 

I called her a stupid bitch and left.... Back in July was the first time i slapped her in the face. Hard. ...I slammed her to the wall and said don't every do this again.

If your GF really does exhibit strong and persistent BPD traits, you are physically abusing a woman having the emotional development of a four year old. You therefore should be concerned how you are going to deal with your own son when he starts exhibiting those same temper tantrums and hissy fits. When you bring out the toys, he will absolutely adore Daddy. But, when you take one away, he will immediately flip to hating Daddy. Are you going to call him names, slap his face, and slam him to the wall?

 

My advice is that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your young son are dealing with from your GF -- and on what it is you can do to acquire anger management skills for yourself. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance. It may also help you assess how capable she will be in raising your son, particularly when he gets old enough to stop being so compliant with her wishes. Take care, Adrian.

[BelleSkye]

This post brought me into deep sadness......

 

 

You sound exactly like my ex and im like your gf.

 

He eventually left me - because of me finally standing up to him. Your past actions probably built up resentment in your ex and now she is lashing out at you.

 

She just had a child, be kind to her. In fact, do everything that she asks for, soon, the resentment will disappear and she will remember only the good..it will not happen overnight, it will be a long process...but only do this if you want to save your relationship.

 

It hurts me so much that you took the effort to come here to find a solution. I really do understand where she is coming from....she is only hard on you because she is trying to salvage some self rescept and dignity. She does love you!!! Her past stresses with you probably caused BPD in her. Your passive aggresive, non confrontational behaviour is usually considered as emotional abuse. The fact she didnt leave you after you slapped her shows she is losing a lot of herself to be with you.

 

If you want her, please give into her ways.....it will fade away over time. Making her happy should make you happy.

 

You have a child now with her, please dont be selfish.

Edited December 26, 2015 by BelleSkye

[testmeasure]

During the good phase of our relationship, my ex used Aspergers as an explanation for why her reactions to things were sometimes kind of off. She explained that because of her Aspergers she didn't have good social skills, and what she did have was all stuff she had to explicitly learn like a memorized set of rules about what is proper.

 

 

Then there was a bad phase of the relationship. By the time that phase was over, it was unmistakably clear that my ex had exactly the kind of disorder Downtown is describing.

 

 

After it was all over I tried to figure out how the good part of our relationship (which lasted a fairly long time in my case) could possibly be reconciled with my ex having the kind of emotional damage she did. In thinking through all of her behavior, anytime there was something that could have been a sign or clue, it was always explained away by Aspergers.

 

 

You need to absolutely avoid any kind of aggressive behavior. No slapping or yelling. If your relationship ends, she is probably going to claim violence and abuse by you even if there isn't any. The last thing you need to do is make that claim legitimate.

 

 

There is a child involved. If the relationship ends you need to look like the good guy for the custody battle.

 

 

Also, try to be as involved in the care of the child as you can, and find some way to document this involvement. Pictures, a journal, records of when/what you fed the child. Being able to show that you are a good dad who is very involved with child care is very important if the relationship ever ends.

 

 

If you're in Denmark, I don't know how child custody issues are decided there. But you should start looking into it. If she has the kind of emotional damage Downtown is describing, this child is going to need as much time with you as you can get.

 

 

I lived for a year in this general kind of situation exactly because there was a young child and I wanted to do anything to preserve the family. Fortunately, that gave me the time to, gain the knowledge and establish a track record of taking care of our child. I didn't realize it at the time, but Downtown is right, living in this kind of environment can be damaging to you.

 

 

 

 

I'm not a legal or psychological professional. This is all just personal opinion.

 

 

.

Edited December 26, 2015 by testmeasure

[Downtown]

Test, welcome to LoveShack. I'm always delighted when a new member arrives with considerable experience with BPDers, as is especially evident in your 12/21 and 12/23 posts. Am sorry you know so much, however, because you evidently learned it all the hard way. I would have PMed you on 12/21 but, until you've met the time and posting requirements, we are not able to PM each other. Again, welcome aboard!

[testmeasure]

I only found the concepts a few months ago. But, it all integrates and explains more than I ever expected.

 

 

I assumed that I would never understand what happened to me. I assumed that any science which pretty much departs from measuring physical objects was still in the dark ages.

 

 

In the dark phase I thought it was a specific reaction to me. I knew it was somehow related to the ex's early childhood, but I assumed it was related to that in a way that focused on me or that I was triggering.

 

 

In a very circumstantial, but probably inevitable way, very much after the fact I ran into these concepts.

 

 

I would love to be in a position to learn the overview and be done with it since the ex is already an ex. But every book on the topic says people with this stuff will do the dark part of it and role reversal with children.

 

 

From what I understand both professions with a relevant say in the matter (psychology and law) currently think that a relationship with both parents is of overriding importance. I'm not an expert in these fields. So I have to defer to that. And I realize that even if I reach a point where I think I know enough to disagree with that, I will still have to accept it because that is the current school of thought in both professions and on top of that these things are pretty hard to diagnose.

 

 

I'm going to have to learn as much about this as possible, all with a focus of what skills to teach children who may have to experience this.

 

 

There was another thread that I didn't comment on where you posted a link to a list and another thread, and in that thread you linked another thread, and I think maybe a 3rd and another forum. I found that all very interesting. Some of your posts, just the way they were worded hit home more than books written by people who only have clients effected by this stuff. In particular, at some point you described what is appealing during the good phase. As I stated even in this thread, I have been trying to reconcile the good phase, which in my case lasted a number of years. Prior to reading your stuff, I understood separation. It felt like nothing could go wrong right up until nothing could go right. I think you talked about the emotional intensity and purity of unrestrained emotions. Suddenly the dots connected even more. It wasn't just that nothing could go wrong during the good phase. Things burned bright. In a way that was as extreme as the eventual darkness and hostility.

 

 

Thing after thing I discover explains and connects things I never expected.

 

 

.

Edited December 27, 2015 by testmeasure

[Downtown]

I only found the concepts a few months ago.

You write like a man who understands far more than the "concepts" of BPD. Rather, you write like a man who lived with BPD behaviors for at least several years, learned the hard lessons on your own, and then tied up the loose ends when the concepts arrived a few months ago. If not, you sure fooled me.

 

Every book on the topic says people with this stuff will do the dark part of it and role reversal with children.

That is my understanding also. I was sorry to read, in one of your 12/23 posts, that you share joint custody with a woman you believe to have strong BPD traits. Because you were dating her for an extended period, she almost certainly is high functioning (as is true for the vast majority of BPDers). Hence, if she is a BPDer, she likely will be compassionate and caring to your children while they are young -- because they are too dependent to pose a threat to her fears of abandonment and engulfment.

 

That likely will change when they become old enough to be non-compliant and rebellious. Then they may start triggering her abandonment fear. By that time, however, the children may be old enough that -- if it gets too bad -- they can get the court to assign full custody to you. Moreover, by the time they are in their early teens, they will almost certainly live wherever they want, regardless of what the court says. If a teen doesn't want to live with one parent, he will make life such a living hell for that parent -- by acting out -- that she will gladly see him being taken care of by the other parent.

 

These things are pretty hard to diagnose.

Spotting the symptoms, of course, is easy. You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to recognize temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and lack of impulse control. Diagnosis nonetheless is very difficult for high functioning BPDers because they have no reason to reveal their dark side to the therapist.

 

It therefore may take the therapist several years to observe the BPD behaviors you saw all week long. Moreover, even if that observation does occur, therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer (much less tell her partner) the name of the disorder -- as I explain at Loath to Diagnose.

 

I'm going to have to learn as much about this as possible, all with a focus of what skills to teach children who may have to experience this.

In case you've not yet found it, I note that there is a message board -- Co-parenting after the Split -- at the BPDfamily forum. There you will find folks who are sharing their experiences on raising children that are in shared custody with a BPDer parent.

 

It wasn't just that nothing could go wrong during the good phase. Things burned bright. In a way that was as extreme as the eventual darkness and hostility.

I've found it impossible to explain -- to someone who has not experienced it -- how intoxicating and ecstatic that honeymoon period is with a BPDer. For the doubters, I tell them they can get a glimpse of what it is like by seeing any Marilyn Monroe movie. Her vulnerability and childlike purity of expressions were so intense that they will leap right off the screen.

[testmeasure]

Downtown - is there a way we can communicate directly?

 

 

If OP here used his real name as his username, he might want to change that.

 

 

For similar reasons I don't want to start a new thread where I get too specific about multiple details. Nor is it fair for me to hijack another thread, or any safer to put a lot of specifics in one place there.

 

 

If not here, on BPDFamily? I believe that I found that through the links I described and I think I looked specifically at the forum section you mention.

 

 

I notice that you're a supporting member here. This post could be erased after that (other than possibly the part about OP's name).

[Downtown]

Test, I don't know if BPDfamily will let you have PM privileges any quicker than here at LoveSchack. But if you want to try, attempt to PM me after logging in there. I will check my messages there tomorrow to see if you were successful. If not, simply wait another week or so and you should gain PM privileges here, at which time we can contact each other.

 

For issues that are not too personal, however, I suggest you start a thread and raise them here on LoveShack's open forum. That way, you will benefit not only from my experiences but also from those of dozens of other active members having much experience with BPDers. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences with other members and lurkers, you likely would be helping numerous individuals. This thread, for example, has already attracted 160 views in just one day.