Seymore Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I recently left a relationship of 2.5 years. The ex confronted me, asking why I left (playing dumb). One of the reasons was the lies and shadyness. She then swore she never lied to me. I said lying by omission counts as lying, and she asked when did she ever do that... About 8 or 9 months into our relationship, an old high school friend contacted her, he asked to meet up with her for drinks. She told me about it and I said sure, go ahead. For the next week, he was texting her an awful lot, so after a week I looked at her phone (something I never did unless something really felt off). Turns out he was professing his love for her, asking her to leave me, etc.- and she never took a hard stance other than saying "I love my boyfriend", there was no "leave me alone" or "no, please stop". And she kept entertaining the conversation. Isn't this lying by omission? A few months before I left her, she was at a convention and said she'd be out at 5, home no later than 8:30. 6pm came around and still nothing (which was odd, because she texted me about 20-30 times a day). I texted asking if she was ok, no response. 8:00, no response. 9:00, nothing - her kids didn't even know where she was. At 11:30 I get a call from her, half drunk, saying she's going to sober up and come home - she went to a party afterwards. I asked why she couldn't let me or her kids know, she said her phone was dead so she left it in her car to charge. I ask why she couldn't let it charge for two minutes, text me she was going to a party, and THEN leave the phone in her car - she said the car was too far to get the phone to text me. This made no sense to me and was really suspicious, so I checked her Facebook messages. Turns out that during the time she claimed the phone was in her car, she was messaging some guy from the convention (a guy I know has flirted with her before), asking him to take her out to dinner. Two hours later he said he was at the hotel room with her favorite wine. Now, according to her, this guy was an old co-worker, mentor of hers and like 20 years older than her, and there were lots of other people at that party, guys AND girls, and that she never cheated on me. Fast forward to the recent "confrontation", and when I told her she lied about her phone being dead, she said "I never would cheat on you!", completely skirting the lying thing. Aren't these instances of lying? She made my head spin so much during that confrontation that I was left feeling like I was wrong all along, despite what evidence was right there! Edited December 24, 2015 by Seymore
HeartOfAPhoenix Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 It's really a subjective topic. Everyone will have their own thoughts about whether withholding the truth is consider lying. I consider the circumstances you've listed as lying but not solely by the fact that she didn't open up and flat out tell you. But more in cases where the truth was intentionally ommitted to avoid confrontation. You asking this question shows that you haven't really analyzed and set your boundaries. Just something to keep in mind and focus on, you may find clarity after you've established them. 1
Author Seymore Posted December 24, 2015 Author Posted December 24, 2015 It's really a subjective topic. Everyone will have their own thoughts about whether withholding the truth is consider lying. I consider the circumstances you've listed as lying but not solely by the fact that she didn't open up and flat out tell you. But more in cases where the truth was intentionally ommitted to avoid confrontation. You asking this question shows that you haven't really analyzed and set your boundaries. Just something to keep in mind and focus on, you may find clarity after you've established them. Could you elaborate, please, on the analyzing and setting boundaries?
HeartOfAPhoenix Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Could you elaborate, please, on the analyzing and setting boundaries? What would you consider to be a red flag. I will not tolerate ________ behaviour in a relationship. If she keys my car she's packing her crap and getting the heck out. What dictates that line in the sand, that if someone crosses it will result in a confrontation/resentment. From your original post, she clearly knew there was a boundary on cheating (whether she picked that up from you or past experience, who could say) but what other boundaries were established aside from that. I hope this doesn't come across as me belittling you. I think you have established some boundaries but I don't think you've really sat down and put a lot of thought into the subject.
Author Seymore Posted December 24, 2015 Author Posted December 24, 2015 No, not belittling at all. Keying my car? Lol, that's a given in any relationship, I'd think! And I'd also think that hiding a conversation that was detrimental to one's relationship is a boundary crossed, too. I don't know, I guess I just assume these things are a given in any relationship. If I was going out to dinner with some woman who had hit on me before, AND a hotel party with them, AND I didn't tell you, I would be concerned if you WEREN'T angry. I just am lost on why there would be a need for that to be established, I guess. When I would express my being upset about these things and let her know she crossed a line when they happened, she'd make me feel like I was crazy - "He's just a friend/I've known him forever/I can't believe you don't trust me" - like I was in the wrong, and my boundaries were too strict and I was overreacting. So it's not like I just let those things happen - I let her know those things bothered me. But I think most people would agree those things are cause for suspicion and possibly a total deal breaker.
HeartOfAPhoenix Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Keying my car? Lol, that's a given in any relationship, I'd think! Cheating came to mind first, but people take back cheaters so I tried going with something that would be less subjective. I think you need to do a little bit of self evaluation. Think of scenarios that would unsettle you and determine if they are deal breakers or cause for small arguments. Settle on resolutions such as "If she does _____ I WILL end the relationship." A boundary is useless without reaction and they need to be well established at some point in the relationship. I would personally assume that getting your car keyed or getting cheated on would be a major deal breaker, but people have their own opinions on the severity of actions.
Author Seymore Posted December 24, 2015 Author Posted December 24, 2015 Ok, but that brings me back to the original question. If I were to say cheating is a dealbreaker, then what about a situation like the above, where it all but looks like it but I have no solid proof? And if I say I don't tolerate lying, but "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you"? How do you walk that line? Is lying by omission still lying? Or if it certainly looks like the other person is cheating but they say they never did, where do you draw that line to assume?
Stressed_26 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I know what you mean here Seymore. I think omission is worse than lying, and it makes one's imagination go wild when things don't add up - e.g. phone out of battery, yet online ! People don't realise but omission has a devastating impact on trust and ability to trust someone after this. Most often acts of omission do have a dodgy underplay. It is another point if you want to forgive and take back, but even in that case trust will always be gone. You will in future also keep adding the stories to see it they are consistent. I can understand your predicament.
HeartOfAPhoenix Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Ok, but that brings me back to the original question. If I were to say cheating is a dealbreaker, then what about a situation like the above, where it all but looks like it but I have no solid proof? And if I say I don't tolerate lying, but "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you"? How do you walk that line? Is lying by omission still lying? Or if it certainly looks like the other person is cheating but they say they never did, where do you draw that line to assume? That's up to you to decide. It's why I brought up setting boundaries, everyone will have a different set of rules that dictate whether they think the relationship is worth holding onto. Personally, I agree with Stressed_26. Even with the uncertainty of the situation, if trust is gone there really is no point in continuing. Living with that lingering doubt is very self destructive and will likely manifest itself into other problems in the relationship. Trust can be reestablished, but it is extremely hard and unlikely. "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you" My response would be: "Exactly, you didn't tell me. How do you expect me to trust you at this point?"
lil hoodlum Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 While she may not have "technically" lied to you, she sure wasn't very open and honest about what was going on. She dam well knows that if she was honest with you about what was going on, you would have been pissed off/upset and that would have caused a fight/confrontation. So yes, she omitted the truth. Lying by omission = omitting the truth. Bottom line, she wasn't open and honest with you. And yes, those are grounds for breaking up with someone. How will you be able to trust her in the future when she omits telling you the truth? 2
Author Seymore Posted December 25, 2015 Author Posted December 25, 2015 Thank you so much, hoodlum. That's exactly how I felt. I guess I needed a little affirmation to counteract the response my ex gave me, making me feel like I was crazy.
NopeNah Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 Thank you so much, hoodlum. That's exactly how I felt. I guess I needed a little affirmation to counteract the response my ex gave me, making me feel like I was crazy. No... It's a flat out lie(even if she never spoke of it)! Get out and fast!! Unless you want to become the 'sitter' while she's out doing whatever and covering it up by never mentioning it. I dated a girl like this.. I would be at home watching my daughter and HER son,while she went out with friends. The very first time,after moving into with each other, I found a guy's hat in her car(while taking the kids to school the following day)...LIVID doesn't come close to my thoughts on the way home..Next I demanded her phone...text(s) from some guy she met that night... The end! I moved my kid and myself out the same day.. It's broken and I(you) shouldn't waste time trying to fix it.
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