BlueIris Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Don't be obtuse. You know the expectation would be different. As a matter of fact, it may be his virginity that make her feel entitled to subjugate him. And then you go through my posts nitpicking semantics rather than looking at the larger perspective, and add a bunch of pejorative words as you paraphrase to make it sound like I'm some kind of misogynist when the reality is you have tunnel vision, gender bias and aren't capable of arguing in such a way as to add to the discussion. It is not "nitpicking semantics" to take issue with someone's believing that if they do not get what they want from another person they are being “subjugated.” That’s a jaw-dropper! He wants something from her that she apparently doesn’t want to give. What is the big deal? Man, I'd love to see that argument "I'm being subjugated!" in any other setting where one person wants another person to give them something. "But I want this car and you won't give it to me! I'm being subjugated!" "But I want a cookie before dinner and mom won't give it to me! I'm being subjugated!" No, this thinking deserves some introspection. 2
Shining One Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Really? I know women from all over the world (because of Internet forums including this one!!) who are NEVER going to have sex except for when it happens in an exclusive committed relationship. Take my word for it - this is quite normal among many girls.I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just describing the dating experience in the area I live in.I really can't imagine many women who would go along with sex because it's YOUR "requirement" and then you MIGHT put exclusivity "on the table."It's not like we sit down at a table and discuss these terms. We date, sex happens, then exclusivity comes up. We only discuss this if sex doesn't happen and the woman brings up exclusivity. I'm also willing to compromise and agree to exclusivity immediately before we have sex if the woman has a conflicting requirement.I'm sure there are girls like that - if they are actually looking for a relationship, they must get their feelings hurt a great deal.Yes, it's a gamble. The "date her exclusively for X number of months and sex MIGHT be on the table" process is also a gamble.In any case, the OP is obviously not a guy with a "sex before relationship" requirement, so you are just projecting.I'm projecting nothing. I shared what works for me and said the OP will need to find what works for him. Unlike you, I have been in the OP's shoes and by not agreeing to exclusivity before sex, I avoid being in those shoes in the future. 2
joystickd Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Wow. For reals? It's my JOB to have sex with you just because we're dating? What if I don't want to just give it up to a guy if I don't know we'll end up together? What if I need more than 3 months to KNOW if we have a future? What if I don't want to end up having 20 different partners over the years? Sheesh. Too emotional. The thing is if you are spending a lot of time with someone and really getting to know them then there is no need to wait more than three months. If a woman has an issue with that then they need therapy. I would understand more than three months of you were communicating maybe 2 times a week but more than that 3 months wait max. The problem is if hebis providing the emotional then she needs to reciprocate and meets his needs also. The relationship can't be one sided. This is just a woman that wants to control the dynamic of the relationship.
salparadise Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) It is not "nitpicking semantics" to take issue with someone's believing that if they do not get what they want from another person they are being “subjugated.” That’s a jaw-dropper! Yea, funny how that word would apply to a meek woman under the control of a dominant man, but you cry foul when the genders are reversed. It's one of those words that does not have a super precise definition. It can mean domination by conquest, to make subordinate to, or to repress... as in deny one's needs. Romantic relationships are transactional in nature, and good ones are reciprocal. My descriptions of the situation highlight the fact that her effective carrot-dangling precludes him from pursuing better options (opportunity cost) while providing none of what he, and all other red-blooded, adult, men and women, reasonably expect in a romantic relationship. In other words, it's a one-way, non-reciprocal transaction and she refuses to negotiate in good faith. His only options are to hope that someday she decides to be generous with the precious pussy, or to walk away from the table. I think he should walk rather than to hope for a bit of generosity on her part... and in the future to adopt Shining One's policy of not going exclusive or letting anyone dominate, control, repress or otherwise subordinate his needs without full reciprocity in effect. Hell, I cut one loose a couple of years ago after about 3-4 months because she refused to engage in oral. I didn't hold it against her personally or anything... I just told her that it's not something I intend to live without. It would've been a terrible waste of my talent and enthusiasm. But zero sex? Bzzzzt. Edited December 31, 2015 by salparadise 1
WomenWubber Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Are you exclusive? How would you describe your rl with her?
PPan Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I have a hard time believing your girlfriend is sexually attracted to you. 3 months without sex? Does she do anything sexual with you at all? You have to learn a couple of things, first. Women do not need an emotional connection first in order to have sex. Many, many if not most women will be down to sleeping with the guy casually if he's hot enough, and here you are investing your time, effort, emotions and probably your money on someone who probably had casual sex before but isn't really going to tell you that she's making you wait for what other guys had for free. And second: Your problem is not your virginity. You are either ''dating'' a girl above your league, and who is obviously not attractred to you, or you need to seriously hit the gym, grow big and lean and you won't ever have the trouble of having to wait for sex to happen. Do you honestly believe your girlfriend would make Ryan Gosling wait? Heck, maybe your girlfriend has a low sex drive. You know how many girls are there who want to have sex all the time? Why aren't you out there looking for them instead of talking about a girl who doesn't care about you at all? 1
turnera Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Too emotional. The thing is if you are spending a lot of time with someone and really getting to know them then there is no need to wait more than three months. If a woman has an issue with that then they need therapy. I would understand more than three months of you were communicating maybe 2 times a week but more than that 3 months wait max. The problem is if hebis providing the emotional then she needs to reciprocate and meets his needs also. The relationship can't be one sided. This is just a woman that wants to control the dynamic of the relationship.Who came up with some arbitrary 'you must have sex by three months or there's something mentally wrong with you' rule? There IS no set time period by which people should start having sex. Most likely, given that he's a virgin, it's just as possible that he's coming off as an un-smooth, needy guy with low self esteem and it' turning her off. 3
PPan Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Who came up with some arbitrary 'you must have sex by three months or there's something mentally wrong with you' rule? There IS no set time period by which people should start having sex. Most likely, given that he's a virgin, it's just as possible that he's coming off as an un-smooth, needy guy with low self esteem and it' turning her off. Actually, there is. I can only take seriously the women who are having sex with me. Is she dating me? What would this entail, then? Oral sex? Are we just kissing? I'm not interested in teenagers. I'm a man. If a woman takes 3 months to have sex with me she's probably not attracted to me, or she has a low sex drive. The guy would just drump her and find himself a girl, but he's probably so thirsty that he keeps this girl around in the hopes she'll have sex with him.
seekingluck Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I admit maybe I got a bit desperate at that moment but it's making me feel unwanted, as if there is something wrong. She didn't make her very first bf nor her other bfs wait that long and had no problems with it. I don't mean to be directly but how much long would I be in this position of getting rejected every time I want to go deeper? I've already been waiting forever to be exact; years and years of either not even making it pass getting to know each other on a date or shortly after kissing a girl on a date, then it would always be the friendzone all the time. Basically she's the only woman I made it pass friendzone, my only gf. 1. She doesn't owe you sex, no matter how many times she has had it in the past or with who, in or outside of a relationship. 2. Just because you made it "past friend zone" doesn't mean she owes you sex. 3. It doesn't sound like you have the maturity for a sexual relationship yet. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 1. She doesn't owe you sex, no matter how many times she has had it in the past or with who, in or outside of a relationship. 2. Just because you made it "past friend zone" doesn't mean she owes you sex. 3. It doesn't sound like you have the maturity for a sexual relationship yet. I dunno....While agree with your points in principle, however.... I don't read anything in the paragraph you quoted of the OP where he is demanding he gets sex...The way it reads, its as if he is just wondering why he isn't getting it... Big difference.. IMO TFY
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Yea, funny how that word would apply to a meek woman under the control of a dominant man, but you cry foul when the genders are reversed. If a person is being subjugated by another, it doesn't matter what the genders are. Refusing to have sex with somebody does not equal subjugating the person. How can you not know this? I think it would be tremendously hard to date someone who believed that if you didn't have sex on his terms, you'd be subjugating him. In fact, it sounds like you want the woman to be subjugated by HIM. You know, giving in to his wishes at the expense of her own - likely because the guy told her he'd "dump dump dump" her if she didn't. That's just messed up.
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Romantic relationships are transactional in nature, and good ones are reciprocal. My descriptions of the situation highlight the fact that her effective carrot-dangling precludes him from pursuing better options (opportunity cost) while providing none of what he, and all other red-blooded, adult, men and women, reasonably expect in a romantic relationship. In other words, it's a one-way, non-reciprocal transaction and she refuses to negotiate in good faith. People who approach relationships this way would be much more successful if they just paid for it outright. That's what prostitutes are here for!! You say she "refuses to negotiate in good faith." :lmao: Please tell me what she is getting from the OP that she is supposed to be paying for by having sex with him, because I completely missed that part in his posts. If she is getting his companionship - he's getting the exact same thing back. That's a perfectly fine deal! Seriously, jsyk, I am in a very lovely relationship and we are getting married this year. I waited until I felt comfortable to have sex. He wanted to sooner. Evidently his masculinity wasn't threatened by that. I mean - a few months investment is not very huge in the big picture of life for a confident person who believes the payoff will be worth it. In our situation, our relationship AND our sex life would never have become what it is now if he'd threatened to dump me if I didn't "give it to him" on demand. Even if I had buckled under that coersive pressure, I would NEVER have been able to be as vulnerable sexually as I can be now that I had time to gain trust in him. Even a person who views relationships as a sales deal knows that there are ALWAYS times when taking a risk is worth it. I sincerely don't believe that advising the OP to push her into sex, or to believe that she's emasculating him by not wanting to have sex, is good for him at all. He either needs to feel OK about giving her the time, or simply move on because this is not working for him. All the talk about how she's doing him wrong ... just way out of this ballpark.
seekingluck Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I dunno....While agree with your points in principle, however.... I don't read anything in the paragraph you quoted of the OP where he is demanding he gets sex...The way it reads, its as if he is just wondering why he isn't getting it... Big difference.. IMO TFY The first post does. OP started with, "I lit candles. Why didn't she want to do me immediately. I used my friends romantic lines!" The OP is sexually inexperience and thinks it should just happen because he wants it to. He is not dating a virgin so it should be easy. He is a virgin, he feels pressure, internal and external to hurry up and lose it so he can be "normal." This feels like his first possible chance to get close to losing it, he feels like he deserves to lose his virginity to his girlfriend. Because she is the first person who didn't friends zone him. OP is quite immature about relationships and expectations. 2
Imajerk17 Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) I think many posts on here aren't seeing the point. The point is not whether this girl has a right to hold off on sex (she does) or even whether you "have to have" sex within a certain time frame (you don't). The point is that the woman the OP is in an exclusive relationship with really doesn't seem to be that into him. That is a big part of the underlying question the OP is asking I think. And I agree--going by what I have read, I really don't think this woman is that into the OP either. I think she is using the OP to fill a place (as there is no sex the pun is NOT intended!) as her boyfriend, for whatever reasons. It is what most of the guys who responded to this thread are saying, underneath all the specific arguments--that she seems to have low interest level and that the OP shouldn't stay in this relationship. I mean, how could it be otherwise? Now, there could be real reasons why the OP's "girlfriend" isn't that into him--maybe OP is coming across needy and pushy (candles LOL). But at the end of the day, she isn't that into him, for whatever reason, so instead of her stringing this guy on, they should break up. Edited January 3, 2016 by Imajerk17 2
turnera Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 This seems like one of those cases where you maybe should just go out and get laid, to get the issue over with, to reduce your focus. 1
Eggplant Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Sex can have a tremendous affect on some people emotionally. Nature made it have that effect on purpose, at least for some people. And the fact that she's not a virgin doesn't mean that the emotional effect of having sex with the OP will be any less. It is a big deal. Therefore, it may be wise for her not to have sex at this point with the OP. And that doesn't mean she's using him or wasting his time. 3
seekingluck Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Sex can have a tremendous affect on some people emotionally. Nature made it have that effect on purpose, at least for some people. And the fact that she's not a virgin doesn't mean that the emotional effect of having sex with the OP will be any less. It is a big deal. Therefore, it may be wise for her not to have sex at this point with the OP. And that doesn't mean she's using him or wasting his time. Exactly. There is no rule on how soon you have to have sex with someone you are dating, no matter what your sexual history is. She has every right to wait until she is ready. Obviously the OP isn't mature enough to have an open conversation with her abou her expectations and his. He instead is trying to use tricks from movies to hope she will drop her panties. He is not ready for a sexual relationship. He can't even talk to her about it. 1
Mumbles Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I have a hard time believing your girlfriend is sexually attracted to you. 3 months without sex? Whilst I generally agree with the comments in your post, the above might be a factor of her age ... and I'm not sure, having reviewed the thread, how old the girl is (?) I'm guessing she's the OP's age or a bit younger, early twenties probably and this sounds plausible if so. In my orbit, the women are 28-45 and for 99% of them they wouldn't choose to be celibate for more than 2 weeks ... and would find a 'buddy' shortly thereafter. Does she do anything sexual with you at all? You have to learn a couple of things, first. Women do not need an emotional connection first in order to have sex. Many, many if not most women will be down to sleeping with the guy casually if he's hot enough Yep, completely agree with this - particularly as girls age. When they are very very young the percentages of willing versus unwilling probably shift a bit, but otherwise - yep, this has been my observation too. and here you are investing your time, effort, emotions and probably your money on someone who probably had casual sex before but isn't really going to tell you that she's making you wait for what other guys had for free. In this situation, as others have said, she's probably a lovely girl, probably worth pursuing, but the OP is 100% coming at her wrongly if his post is literally how he's done the courting. I had a hint right away, but certainly a couple of pages into the thread I figured virginity was involved. So, thats fine, I was a late starter too and it can eat you up. However, no reason to sacrifice this girl on the alter of busting your v-card. The OP shouldn't be exclusive with this girl anyway ... as others have said, thats a conversation to be had -after- you've begun a sexual relationship (though the youngsters probably are still romantic enough to believe otherwise). Don't be mean about it, but take the conscious decision to 'friendzone her' as others have already mentioned - its the only thing that makes sense. She's probably lovely, may even have future potential, but the OP and her are not in the same headspace/timeline right now - exactly the reason the friendzone exists at all. OP - go out and get yours elsewhere. If will take the whole focus out of your mind and let you act in a more sane and rational way towards this girl. Sex is just sex, its available easily everywhere once you realise that its different, fundamentally to relationships. To have a relationship that includes both is the goal, sure, but don't ever believe that one will 100% always lead to the other (ie; sex won't turn into a relationship, nor will a relationship turn into sex).
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 The point is that the woman the OP is in an exclusive relationship with really doesn't seem to be that into him. That is a big part of the underlying question the OP is asking I think. And I agree--going by what I have read, I really don't think this woman is that into the OP either.. That might be true, but why do you think that going by the OP's posts?? If a girl felt bad about maybe "giving in" to pressure from a guy, instead of having sex because she actively WANTED to, that could definitely carry forward to future relationships. Also as others have said, the OP is extremely eager and focussed on having a sexual relationship and the girl could very well feel that he's more about that than about her personally - and she could be right. 1
Eggplant Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Sex can have a tremendous affect on some people emotionally. Nature made it have that effect on purpose, at least for some people. And the fact that she's not a virgin doesn't mean that the emotional effect of having sex with the OP will be any less. It is a big deal. Therefore, it may be wise for her not to have sex at this point with the OP. And that doesn't mean she's using him or wasting his time.effect not affect
PPan Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I think many posts on here aren't seeing the point. The point is not whether this girl has a right to hold off on sex (she does) or even whether you "have to have" sex within a certain time frame (you don't). The point is that the woman the OP is in an exclusive relationship with really doesn't seem to be that into him. That is a big part of the underlying question the OP is asking I think. And I agree--going by what I have read, I really don't think this woman is that into the OP either. I think she is using the OP to fill a place (as there is no sex the pun is NOT intended!) as her boyfriend, for whatever reasons. It is what most of the guys who responded to this thread are saying, underneath all the specific arguments--that she seems to have low interest level and that the OP shouldn't stay in this relationship. I mean, how could it be otherwise? Now, there could be real reasons why the OP's "girlfriend" isn't that into him--maybe OP is coming across needy and pushy (candles LOL). But at the end of the day, she isn't that into him, for whatever reason, so instead of her stringing this guy on, they should break up. Yes, I believe this to be true. The girl is probably not attracted to him. Maybe she's attracted to a certain physical type that this guy doesn't fit in, and she might have had bad experiences with the guys she was attracted to and now is trying to date another type of guy(the OP) to avoid getting hurt, but she's obviously not sexually attracted to the guy. Maybe he has a good job, or is in his way to get a good college degree and she's trying to that in her life. But young women are not waiting at all to have sex. If a woman is attracted to you she'll want to have sex with you. Because if she doesn't soem other girl will. Why stick around if sex is not on the table.
PPan Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) That might be true, but why do you think that going by the OP's posts?? If a girl felt bad about maybe "giving in" to pressure from a guy, instead of having sex because she actively WANTED to, that could definitely carry forward to future relationships. Also as others have said, the OP is extremely eager and focussed on having a sexual relationship and the girl could very well feel that he's more about that than about her personally - and she could be right. Pressure? Guys want to have sex with their girlfriends. Obviously asking her for sex is silly. if she's not responding to his physical advances then she is not attracted to him, sexually. She might like him, and she might admire him. But 3 months without sex? While they are both in their early 20s? Naww, she's either getting sex from some other guy, asexual/low sex drive or she isn't attracted to the guy. Hey, I also admire a woman's personality. Not just her body. But I got this thing called testosterone that makes me want to have sex, and if she's not interested in having sex with me some other girl will. Edited January 3, 2016 by PPan
craw Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Why? Why would I have to wait 6 months just because of her relationships not lasting? Oh man, I'm literally just repeating heresay and this isn't an official rude. I've been told that if you REALLY are serious about someone and you like them - you wait 6 months to see if he/she is serious about you. I really advise you to break up with her - this isn't the relationship you are looking for. I feel like she will fall in love with you, finally sleep with you and you will just ditch her.
thefooloftheyear Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 That might be true, but why do you think that going by the OP's posts?? If a girl felt bad about maybe "giving in" to pressure from a guy, instead of having sex because she actively WANTED to, that could definitely carry forward to future relationships. Also as others have said, the OP is extremely eager and focussed on having a sexual relationship and the girl could very well feel that he's more about that than about her personally - and she could be right. Then why not just dump him? I wont go back and read all the posts, but did he indicate anything that she said something to the effect of.. "Hey OP, I really like you and really want this to work out....let's just slow things up so we can get on a better level emotionally to become intimate" I think if he had some kind of reassurance, then maybe he wouldn't be thinking he is getting played ?? I dunno...the whole thing is pretty bizarre.....nothing like this ever happened to me, so I don't really know how I would even handle it... TFY
PPan Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Oh man, I'm literally just repeating heresay and this isn't an official rude. I've been told that if you REALLY are serious about someone and you like them - you wait 6 months to see if he/she is serious about you. I really advise you to break up with her - this isn't the relationship you are looking for. I feel like she will fall in love with you, finally sleep with you and you will just ditch her. She's most likely sleeping with some other guy. Or she's interested in some other guy and is only using OP as a placeholder boyfriend. I have a feeling the girl will replace the guy with someone she's actually sexually attracted to before the month ends, as he's starting to talk about wanting sex and she is def. not attracted to him.
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