billybadass36 Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 I cannot comprehend how a "man" would act this way to his wife - to the mother of his child. I've read and re-read this set of circumstances from both sides, and welshie, I commend you on the measure of restraint that you've shown since this "illumination" - both the affair itself, and the posts that your husband has made on here. Just take very good care of yourself throughout this trying time. Do NOT make life-altering decisions during this time of emotional turmoil - based on internet forum suggestions or otherwise (although I share Moose's sentiments 150%). Having said that, of course, here's my two cents: Perhaps stuckbloke is pining about the OW in your presence in an effort to make you make the decision to terminate the marriage. That's about the only reason I can see for it. I think he wants the "get out of jail free card" so he can be free of the "shackles" of your marriage and pursue the OW without the moral problems associated with initiating the procedures to terminate the marital relationship. He gives a laundry list of physical and emotional needs that he feels haven't been met in the marriage as a "reason" (although he goes to great pains to not label it an "excuse") for the infidelity. Now he's pining about the OW to you in your presence. I think he's trying to make you make the call. He's making your not meeting his stated emotional and physical needs a "reason" (I still call it an "excuse") for the infidelity...thereby making you the cause of it. This way, you're somehow culpable in the affair. Now, I think he's trying to make himself intolerable to you since you actually appear willing to work on this situation and haven't simply washed your hands of him...you're not giving him what he wants - to be out of this marriage. Deep down, I think he wants this marriage to end, yet he lacks the courage, self-respect, dignity, and manners to simply make this decision. Rather, he's acting in a way that he feels will make the thought of continuing this marriage unbearable to you, putting you in a position where you have to be the one to end it. He is passively slithering out of this marriage. I can tell you this much - if my fiancee took my home repair fund and went off on a tryst with some other dude, my head would explode. But, if she came back, TELLING me about how great a time she had frollicking with this other guy ON MY NICKEL, and sobbing about it I'd just check myself into the local constabulary to keep me from killing someone. I really hope, welshie, you keep your ship aright as best you can through this.
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 I agree 100%. You are NOT your h's therapist so therefore any sadness and loss he feels for this OW should NOT be put on you. Why comfort him when he is grieving her? This is something he has to deal with on his own and come to terms with - Either alone or during his OWN time in one on one therapy. That's a slap in the face to you and I, too, commend your strength to support him. Yet - I'm sure with those feelings, is guilt, sadness and loss for what he's done to you and the marriage. I just hope that someday, if it is what you both want, can work hard and remember what brought the two of you together in the first place. Obviously enough to be married and have children. It's there somewhere, just has to be found again. Love just doesn't up and disappear, just gets pushed down and life, circumstances and pain makes the walls go up and makes one THINK they've gone away...
Author welshie Posted June 2, 2005 Author Posted June 2, 2005 I appreciate all of your comments guys - but I think I should clarify a few things. this is a long post - I hope that's ok. we've been using a website which advocates a policy of extreme honesty. I've lost many people in my life - just one of those things, this means that I know when someone is grieving, the other morning my husband was inconsolable with grief and pain. While he has seen me in this state while he was having the affair and was able to switch off from it (he used to walk away from me if I started crying) I cant do that. If someone is hurting I comfort them, and since he has been out of the affair, he's started comforting me again (just to set the record straight) I asked him why he was crying, he didn;t want to tell me, but then he did. and it hurts like nothing I've ever felt before, not losing my best friend, not even childbirth. He has emotionally ripped me apart, but finally he knows (i think) we've been talking very openly about the whole of our decade together about all of the issues that made us unhappy. I think I'm more of a pragmatist and he isnt. he gets fed up then acts out. I get fed up and just get on with things. Both ways of coping with relationship issues that dissatisfy us, sex, finance, division of roles for housework, childcare etc and the feelings they lead to. I understand that his affair was most definitely not my fault, I had nothing to do with the things he has done, but I do feel like I have to take some responsibility for why he went looking in the first place, ie for the state of our marriage. I've realised that for YEARS we've been taking each other for granted, not been truthful about what we wanted, indeed not even known what we've wanted and been angry and resentful towards eachother one of the biggest hurts for me during my 'cold winter' when my husband abandoned me was that he stopped being my friend, let alone my best friend. Whether we reconcile or whether we split we have to somehow find common ground because we have a son, and none of this is his fault. as adults we have a responsibility to gain some kind of friendship whatever happens for his sake. there is a part of me that wants him to leave. I told him to leave, I told him to go and live with her, I even packed his bags(in a fit of rage) but he wont. and even though I feel like a fool because he wont say he loves me and wont say he wants me or even wants to be here the fact is that he is here and it's blatantly obvious thats because he wants to be. over the next few months I need to decide whether it's worth us being together. I already know I don't need him. But I did choose him a long time ago to be my life partner and I meant it - I made promises before God and before my community which I meant. and while marriage is tough (and I knew it would be) we're still here. I dont know if that means anything or not at this stage. I waver between hope and hopelessness. WE both have so much baggage from our abusive teenagehoods adn ways in which we dealt with those that until we have more of an idea about how that all fits in, which is what we're in the process of now, who knows what the future holds. we might be much more healthy as a couple, much better at communicating, much more aware that we are here out of choice and much more fulfilled. on the other hand we may find that we simply have changed too much, maybe we weren't that compatible to begin with (i find that hard to accept as we've been together a decade - but still)we may decide to go our separate ways, but I know that he's right about 1 thing. we cant do that until we have really given us a chance. one of my good friends said to me 2 weeks ago, 'when are you going to stop being so grown up, just chuck him out and start again ' but am I being too grown up or am I just wanting this to work? then again am I dilusioned? I don't think so but maybe. we have a marriage counselling session tomorrow. the first one since he told me, and at least we're communicating better that we have in YEARS. I dont know where we go in this. at least I know if it ends, I can hold me head up knowing I did myvery best I'm not making excuses for my husband but he did suffer some fairly serious abuse as a child (as I did) he's only just learning how to process emotion.through therapy and this guy had a pretty major breakdown and spent nearly a year in institutions before I met him. I cant not take that into account. I'm NOT excusing his infidelity but don;t I owe him a 2nd chance? I am devastated by what he's done. the details crush me - I found this website by snooping on his computer looking for details about her. Instead I found this forum then proceeded to read his thread -I was horrified to read some of the details about the things they did, Iliterally feel sick to my stomache and at the end of the day I honestly dont nkow if I can ever come through this with respect for him, or if I can ever heal.and I dont know if I can be in this relationship but this is what I do know fact- he had an affair - fact we had a disfunctional marriage fact - he ended it, then told me, he started looking for support and posting on here about 3 weeks ago I think fact - apparently we may be able to get over this and be better as a couple fact - we may not I have to see dont I?
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 Wow, you have some incredible insight already and you are a very strong person. You got a good head on your shoulders. Keep on this track and with the help of the MC and ofcourse your H, maybe slowly things will improve. Some say their marriages are better than before in a way - Just depends on how each of you handle it and WANT to make it work. Concentrate on the good stuff, stay positive - Accept a bad day as just that but thrive for the better days. I hope you read Thumbingmyway's thread. He is incredible with his outlook and has worked SO hard to keep a positive frame of mind.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Originally posted by Moose Give me a break Jmargel........please! It's not our moral values prompting us to advise her to leave.......it's the simple, almost unbelievable whining and crying this man is doing over this other woman......to HIS WIFE! If you can't see that this is highly unusual, highly unhealthy, and highly unforgivable......then you may need the counceling. This is NOT acceptable by any stretch of the imagination. It would be like your SO walking up to you crying her eyes out because she screwed a well hung man, now she wants more......and she keeps hounding you about it day and night......would you put up with that? There are boundaries.....this guy went WAY over on all of them. You should watch what you assume jmargel.......my Christian morals may have a little play into this.....but most of it is COMMON SENSE! Moose, I love you man. That's exactly what needed to be said. Agreed. He went way out of line. If I were her, I'd boot him. It's so frustrating to see people just blow their marriage up without any regards to the consequences of their actions. That their own personal pleasure is more important than honoring their vows. What happened to "To honor and to love?" Why are people bothering to even take marriage vows if, when the going gets tough, they get going?! If you can't handle the vows, DON'T GET MARRIED! Sheesh.
MiChick43 Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Welshie, I really hope that you find happiness. To me, it just sounds like a marriage that should never have been in the first place. That is not meant to be harsh. We have a bit in common. I married 3 days out of HS. I was a virgin. I married a man that was very active in his church, so then I became active. I was never attracted to him, after the marriage. He was controlling, mean, abusive you name it. Im not saying your husband has done all these things. But the attraction I should have had for my husband was never there and I stayed with him for 17 years. One thing, I never told him I was not attracted to him, his body, the way he made love....never. Unlike your husband who has stated these things. I think its mean. My big mistake was NOT leaving him and finding all those wonderful things with a man I was attracted to and wanted to have sex with. Im not sure if those feelings , if not there in the first place, can be produced. I think yoiu have to have some solid structures to build a marriage on. Sex, attraction, emotional support, non verbal abuse. I dont see where that was solid in your marriage in the first place. Maybe Im not reading things right. Non the less...you have a lot of support here and Im glad you posted. Many of us have bad childhoods. But you can turn that around. Those cycles will only be passed to your son they are not turned around. I've been comforting him when he cries over her, and listening and taking everything he's been saying about how much he misses her and what an amazing time he had with her etc etc. HOW DO I COPE WITH THAT You shouldnt have to. It is very selfish of him.
fleafly Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Well, I think I would have to side with Moose on this one. It doesnt sound to me like your husband is remorseful and willing to work on the two of you if he is crying to his you about how much he misses his girlfriend, thats got to be the most ****ed up thing Ive ever read in here, to be honest. And Im not really sure what Jmargel meant by this "pity" stage either, you have every right to be feeling the things you are right now, this is the roller coaster that every one talks about- fun ride, aint it! i guess the only advise I can give you right now is....hang on, the coming weeks and months are going to be very hard, dont let yourself get to down about this. What is done is done, nothing will ever change this. It sucks to know all of the nasty details, these will haunt you, there is no other way to say it, Im sorry. Try not to blame yourself for this, it seems to me your husband gave every excuse in the world to justify his behavior, and the honest truth is, there is no excuse.
MiChick43 Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 michick -I pretty much am in the same frame of mind as you - the sex and even intimacy doesn't bother me as much as I know how much he must have been hurting to have considered doing this Welshie, there again. You feel bad for him. I think you are a caregiver, which isnt always bad. But you tend to put yourself last. My opinion, there is never an excuse for an affair. As abusive as my ex husband was to me that was in no way an EXCUSE to cheat on him. I should have left first. So if your husband was not happy, because you were not nice to him, as he has mentioned many times, there are other ways to solve those problems of unhappiness, sadly divorce is one of them. If he was not attracted to your body, and did not care much for sex with you then he should have put some real thought into what he wanted out of this union instead of having an affair. Also, it angers me that if a S/O, husband/wife, is so unhappy that they cheat.....to me, and maybe just my feelings on this, dont waste my time. Dont waste another year of my life when maybe.......I/You or whomever could actually find some happiness with another person that would value us. Im not saying a marriage, especially with a child involved, should just be tossed out the window. Im just saying that it is very selfish for a partner who is so UNHAPPY in a marriage to prolong doing anything to either save it or let their s/o (wife) go and possibly find someone that will treat them well. An affair is pure selfishness, I was included at one time. My affair lasted three years. Those three years could have been spent allowing my ex to actually find someone that loved him (although he had serious issues, that is no excuse on my part) . Instead he stayed at home and I was out cheating. That was very unfair on my part. Hope you are well. Be strong. Hugs
blind_otter Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 I think you might benefit, welshie, from individual counselling to address the codependent traits you have developed from growing up with abandonment issues and addiction issues in your family, and your caretaking/helper habits. MC is good for the marriage, but you need to address your issues regarding relationship dynamics before you can attempt to see the forest for the trees. Now that is JMO, but codependents can be toxic in relationships.
Moose Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Welshie, I have a few more things to say. First, I think you're doing the right thing.......I really do......but given the circumstances.......I want you to think about a few things:we've been using a website which advocates a policy of extreme honesty.While I think that's ok......I also believe there's a difference between being honest, and giving a confession. He confesses to you. Being honest with someone is a step to recovery. Confessing to someone is admission of sin, not neccessarily with intentions to stop. Has he indicated to you any intentions of severing these feelings towards the OW?I understand that his affair was most definitely not my fault, I had nothing to do with the things he has done, but I do feel like I have to take some responsibility for why he went looking in the first place, ie for the state of our marriage.I can't stress enough, how much this statement isn't true. This is a most common misconception. You've said so yourself:he gets fed up then acts out. I get fed up and just get on with things. Both ways of coping with relationship issues that dissatisfy us, sex, finance, division of roles for housework, childcare etc and the feelings they lead to.BOTH of you are to blame for the situation you're in. You must realize this first. Your last sentence is true. You should feel like you're partly responsible. But not just for the state of the marriage. You have to fess up to the results as well. Somewhere along the line, you both failed to communicate with each other, and instead of growing together......you grew apart. And what set you to apart from each other, is the first part of your paragraph where you mentioned he gets fed up and acts out, you get fed up and get on with it. There has to be a common goal in marriage that you both are compassionate about. For example, building that huge house in the country......or buying trikes and touring the country once retired.......sending Jr. through college...watching your Grandchildren graduate High School....... With all of that said.......I feel that you're already doing your part in the process of healing.....but you're allowing this to overcome you. I'm proud of you for working so hard to save this marriage. But you DO NOT have to listen to anymore about this OW. Period. You don't! I made promises before God and before my community which I meant. and while marriage is tough (and I knew it would be) we're still here.Yes, you did. And you've earned your honor. AND there is a very good reason why God told us that He hates Divorce and the only way He'd allow it is the case of infidelity. Listen to that again.......God HATES Divorce......why in the world would He hate something so intensley, but excuse it completley in the case of infidelity? Because there's no excuse for it. The offender is to blame completley for the infidelity. NOT for the entire affair, but the infidelity is all on him. If you're going to stay in this marriage, you have to put your foot down and insist that he sever these feelings, and never speak of it again.......or you're walkin'. God said He won't blame you.....the community won't blame you. Something else you need to behind you is this: WE both have so much baggage from our abusive teenagehoods adn ways in which we dealt with those that until we have more of an idea about how that all fits in, which is what we're in the process of now, who knows what the future holds.Drop it. Period. I've suffered through Physical, Emotional, and Sexual abuse from my second step father. I don't dwell on it. At all. It's over. Those were the worst 8 years of my life, but they're over. What happen to you and your husband has nothing to do with your son or each other. Let it go. Let it be over. Concentrate on NOW. Have future goals, but don't worry too much over it. I use the saying, "having one foot in yesterday, and one foot in tomorrow means you're pissing all over today." Let it go...... Keep us informed on the MC, would you? And look.......I really do think you have just cause to leave this marriage.....but if you choose to soldier on, you MUST take a stand! [color=red]Now![/color]
Author welshie Posted June 3, 2005 Author Posted June 3, 2005 I agree that need some therapy and I've found a therapist I'd like to have some sessions with. this afternoon we;ve unpacked a lot of we we behave in the way we do and why I am seeming to be able to process this affair in the way I am, some of it negative and some not. I am now in a place where I have recognised that enough is enough. If my husband cant give me what I need, in spite of me loving him, we;ll have to end our relationship and I'm prepared to do that to be healthy. On the other hand, I married this man who I thought did meet my needs (even if with the wonderful gift of hindsight I realise that we probably weren't) the point is that we're here and we have a chance to work things out if at all possible and so that's what we're doing. I do recognise that I like to be needed - and thats a selfish need which comes from way back and the abuse I suffered. I recognise that and am learning to find what I want and need without feeling selfish about it. I am not a doormat although I do feel like a fool lots of the time - if I had affirmation from my husband maybe it would be a good start....only time will tell. we're talking more honestly than we EVER have. we'll just have to see what happens. it could go either way.
blind_otter Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 I say this to a lot of people. You have a son. Your son is at an impressionable age. I know for a fact you don't want him to learn that your husband's behavior is acceptable, nor do you want him to learn that the way your husband interacts with you is the way that husbands and wives interact. Be prepared that individual counseling may give you so much insight into your patterns of interacting that you may realize on your own that this marraige needs to end. I wish you the best.
Author welshie Posted June 3, 2005 Author Posted June 3, 2005 thanks moose for the comments - I feel they are more constructive that the ones you gave before. we are trying. he hasnt lost his feelings for her (he may have lost some, I dont know), but he is trying. we're trying to find each other again - not sure I can talk about this online but we tried kissing, and I know that he has memories of her. I feel like crap about it. I know they're memories for him that possibly will never go away. It feels like she's in the middle of us, which I guess is common, I feel like I want to exorcise her. I feel rejected all over again. our relationship was steeped in the church. we did want each other and were attracted to each other when we first met, but gave up sex soon after meeting. I became a christian about 4 months after we met (husband already was) and we didn't have sex then until we got married - I think our teaching andcertainly my understanding of sex before marriage was skewed. We shut off any feelings to do with physical intimacy for about 2 years. so we both see that we closed down our 'fix' feelings (dopamine/adrenaline etc) Our sex life hasn't been good. at time's it;s been ok but never fantastic, and we've never lost ourselves in each other (man I cant believe I'm talknig about this!) we're seeing if we can work on this, by trying to court again I guess. Its SO hard. I feel lke giving up, but I know (and he has said also)that we could work on all of the issues we have and that if we could the relationhip is worth saving. is it worth it? It's very confusing with people telling me to leave - fact - we are giving this until christmas....then we see, in the mean time I need support on how to try and all the obsticals that keep coming up. is there anyone who has worked through these issues and how did you do it?
whichwayisup Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Try not to put a "time limit" on this as each of you will heal differently and there are going to be bumps in the road during this rollercoaster ride. Takes ALOT of time. Who knows how good/bad the progress will be at Xmas time. As long as both of you try your best, that is all that counts now. If it doesn't work atleast you know you gave it your best shot. Hope you feel abit better and try to have a good weekend.
whichwayisup Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Just a suggestion, maybe get a babysitter this weekend so you and your husband can go out. Just for a night, try to forget, have some fun? Shoot some pool or throw darts? I don't know if either of you are up for something like that, but it could just be abit of a breather for you both. I'm glad Moose is helping you, he's a good guy for advice. Hugs.
SoleMate Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Welshie, I apologize for the unhelpful posts by another person. I'll suggest you do what I do - when you see a post like that, just hit the "Block" icon, and you will never have to read another message from the person again. I see LOTS of reasons for hope for the two of you. You know how hard this withdrawal period is for BOTH of you. Day to day survival is worth celebrating. You tried to kiss - that means you both tried! You were both in the same room and you both felt enough hope and motivation to at least give it a whirl. So although on one hand it may not have been much of a kiss, still, at that moment, you were closer to acting like a contented husband and wife than you have been for a long time. I;ve had good luck over the years using the idea, "Fake it 'til you make it." Have you tried to access what your felt for your H during the times when you were closest? Try pulling out old photos, remember things he did that touched and pleased you. You may have to dig down hard for such memories, but the effort may be worth it. Please keep posting, 99.5% of us here are truly sympathetic and want to help. is it worth it? It's very confusing with people telling me to leave...we are giving this until christmas....in the mean time I need support on how to try... I wish people wouldn't TELL you to leave (or to stay for that matter) That decision is YOURS alone. Many people in your shoes have made a decision to stay and try to work it out. Your marriage already has enough problems, you definitely don't need bystanders of any description sniping or throwing rocks at it. Keep in mind that many of the people telling you to leave may have their own internal demons they are battling. It is a rare friend who can truly advise you purely out of sheer love for you, let alone have the omniscience to see how your life and your son's life would progress based on your decision to stay married or not. is there anyone who has worked through these issues and how did you do it? Well, I haven't, but ladyjane, among others, has lived through your story. BTW - stuckbloke, if you are reading this, I recommend going and busting your butt to immediately get the roof fixed just the way your wife wants/wanted it. Regardless of whether you think it's necessary or advisable. Regardless of whether you anticipate staying in that house, with or without her. It would be one concrete act of love and caring that might unravel just a little bit of the afghan of pain you have been knitting for her over these past 6-8 months. Who knows, you fix the roof and make her a CD, she just might come to you and speak in a loving, gentle voice, while giving you a delightful shoulder rub. I wouldn't be looking for oral sex tonight, however.
Author welshie Posted June 3, 2005 Author Posted June 3, 2005 thank you so much solemate- I really need some encouragement - so many people (including my mother) dont think I should be trying with him. I have to consider every aspect of my life and try everything before I can really let the relationship end. In my heart I dont want it to, but am prepared to if it needs to. I'd be really interestedin ladyjanes experience but she put apost on here saying that she thinks that my husband has been posting on here under my name and he definitely has not. but because she thought that I dont think she wants to post on my thread anymore. so thats ok. tomorrow is a new day - its 11.30 over here now.We've had a very intense day trying to see each other again and it;s time for a rest. thank you again
Ladyjane14 Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 Originally posted by welshie I'd be really interestedin ladyjanes experience but she put apost on here saying that she thinks that my husband has been posting on here under my name and he definitely has not. but because she thought that I dont think she wants to post on my thread anymore. so thats ok. It's poor form to doubt a poster's veracity. For that, I owe the forum at large an apology. Because to another person reading posts here in search of answers for there own particular problems....what does it matter if the original poster is being completely forthright or not? Regarding the question at hand, there is hope for any marriage in which BOTH partners agree to prioritize the relationship. Your current situation is still compromised by ambivalence. It's not that there aren't things you can do until the question of reconciliation (or not) is decided upon. There's plenty you can do. Most of it involves working on yourself....and not on the other person though. You have responsibility in whatever deficiancies you brought to the relationship prior to the affair. Likewise does stuckbloke. Working on whatever deficits you had at that time will enable you to eventually reconcile the current relationship....or perhaps be an even better partner in the next. Developing a good self-esteem is one of the BEST ways you can work on yourself at this time. When you see yourself as someone who is worthy of love and committment by your partner, your value is increased. Not only in your own eyes, but in your partner's as well. You have ZERO responsibility in your husband's decision to go outside the relationship. He's ostensibly a grown man. He could have been more tenacious in problem-solving at home. It was his choice to abandon a tough problem....and take the low-road. You do him a disservice if you absolve him of even the smallest portion of his responsibility. He needs to EARN his way back. You need that too. It's not good enough to "be sorry". Reparation must be made....and he needs to find a way to make it. That's more important than what you might think. It seems childish, but the playing field MUST be levelled. So, he needs to make amends....not in only in words, but in actions. He's got to prove to you that he's "THE GUY", and that he's worthy of YOU. It's not the other way around. I'm not saying that you can't be supportive. In fact, I think that being supportive of others develops good self-esteem. When you're living inside 'The Golden Rule', inside the parameters of your own value system....you're living up to your own expectations. You're being the person that you always strived to be. Anyway, initially....that's what helped me the most. I let him EARN his way back, by allowing him to make amends. I operated under the Golden Rule, treating him the way I wanted to be treated. I took absolute OWNERSHIP of my responsibilities in the relationship. And I worked to become the best person that I could be, (and not for him....I do that for ME. ) I prioritized my partner's needs "as if they were my own". I accepted him inclusive of his faults. And I stood up for myself....asking for all that in return.
Author welshie Posted June 4, 2005 Author Posted June 4, 2005 thanks so much lady - and for posting on here too. you managed to put what Ive been trying to say to him over the passed week much more effectively. Ive been feeling like he somehow needs tomake it better but that doesnt make sense really - you saying he needs to earn his way back and needs to level the playing field hits the nail on the head. I feel like such a fool tho because even though I feel he needs to do this I also feel like I've just let him waltz back home and I've affirmed him and listened to him etc. And while he has been listening to me and finally is comforting me somewhat, he cant say he loves me, has reaffirmed that he doesnt like my body, and is still thinking about himself a lot fo the time. Lots of folk are tellig me to get rid of him, but I do love him. I dont think its as if I'm desperate, I have some big doubts about whether we can stay together but I'm completley and utterly willing to try. I feel like I have and am taking responsibility for my part in our relationship - I think we have amuch better understanding about how we got to where we were, and while that has been good to unpack all of this (and there is a lot) it still seems as if he's almost getting away with his behaviour. I need affirmation big time, and I need him to stand up to the mark and be counted for what he has done. there is an element of that, our friends know wht he's done and thats really difficult, and hes apologising for hurting me, but wont apologise about her. And how long is this withdrawal supposed to last? - apparently if I can believe a word he says, he stopped the affair 6 weeks ago. but I feel like she's still wearing the princesses crown. I feel like he needs to put me first, like I' ve been doing for him. If he needs me I'm there, I respond. I have a mixture of feeling selfish and childish because I want him to put me first, but also I feel that he should be, that it;s right that he does. And he isnt'. Therefore, is this relationship doomed? should I even bother? I dont know. I'm not the type of person who can make his life hell, the whole 'treat him mean' philosophy. I cant do that willingly although I understand that in the passed I have hurt him with my words and behaviour, I do see that part of the way my husband works is that he behaves very much as a victim. I find myself either being accepting, affirming and comforting to him or feeling that sometimes he has the 'nobody likes me' complex on his shoulders, which does my head in. I'm trying to deal with accepting his hurt and mine, dealing with my anger towards him, her and myself and dealing with the acute rejection and physical and emotional pain that I'm living through at the moment. I cant believe how much this hurts. My stomache is permanantly knotted and when I hear a new detail (usually because I've asked at this stage) it feels like a knife is in there twisting the knot even further. I have never felt pain like this before and the rejection is overwhelming. My husbands father had an affair when he was about the same age. My mother in law still has so much anger and rejection about it and it was 20 years ago. will somebody please tell me that I can heal. Will I always feel this - will it get better? I know that God can heal, I do have strong faith and it helps a lot but everytime we speak I feel the rejection, and I know thats all wrapped up with my low self esteme and its crazy because I am usually a confident, make it happen person. I'm a performer, I run businesses and coach other people in my profession. I know that I should be holding my head up high - there s a part of me which thinks screw this and screw him, how dare he violate me in this way. but the feeling of rejection is SO strong and everyone is saying sit with the feelings, let yourself feel, time will clarify things when they arent so raw. Do I force myself to stand up tall, put my makeup on, and get on with it - something tells me that s alittle of how I got here in the first place, I know this post is really jumbled up and confusing - I cant plan what I'm saying today, I'm not sure if anyone can really understand where I'm coming from because Idont feel I'm expressing myself clearly enough. this morning I woke up with images of them in my head and I felt rage at her. I know he's more to blame, but I raged at him the day he told me. So I talk to him and he gets defensive about her! which he apoogised for later but still! I'm on such a rollercoaster of feelings at the moment, as I'm writing this I feel sadness and despair, when he and I talk I feel a little hope, when we attempt to be itimate, I feel rejected and hurt and when I think of her and him I feel anger, then I look at my son and I feel alone and guilty about what he must be picking up, and even though we've been really lucky, friends havebene looking after him mostly this week to give my husband and I space to talk. I know that little boy is feeling my tension. and I dont know what to do about any of this -I'll phone my therapist on monday, we're in marriage counselling, my husband has a therapist, and we're talking.is there anything else I can do that I'm missing. I need to get through this shock period now - I have work next week (I cancelledmost of my commitments last week)and I need to pay attention to my little boy so he feels secure. this is most definitely the biggest thing Ive ever had to try and get through in my life so far. apologies for the mixed up nature of this post - I know there's lots of issues in it. thanks again for being there
lindya Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 I'm sorry you read your husband's posts, and I'm even sorrier to hear that he's continuing to adopt this "frank" approach with you. Throughout the threads on this board, posters are encouraged to be honest with their partners. "Honest, open communication." The difficulty in your husband trying to do this is, perhaps, that he is unable to apply that same level of frankness inwards. A couple of posters have suggested that he's playing the victim here, and presenting excuses for his behaviour. Despite all the evidence (in his own posts) that he is doing exactly that, it's a notion he seems unwilling to even contemplate. It really does bother me that you are talking this through over and over again with him - particularly in light of some of the things he's said about you. By this stage, he seems so set on viewing you in the most negative light possible that I can't see how further discussion will lead to anything but more pain for you. I get a picture of a man who's almost like a teenager in the extent to which he lashes out at you one minute, inflicting all these damaging thoughts and perceptions onto you...then expects you to comfort and reassure him the next. You may love this man, but I wonder if he truly has the strength and maturity to find happiness in a relationship with anyone other than an impressionable younger person. Undoubtedly you deserve someone - and something -far more authentic than this, but I appreciate that you have a young child to look after and a number of things to consider here.
MiChick43 Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 Your post was exactly what Ive been trying to post. *sometimes not so great at transferring thoughts onto computer* Chick
MiChick43 Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 And while he has been listening to me and finally is comforting me somewhat, he cant say he loves me, has reaffirmed that he doesnt like my body, and is still thinking about himself a lot fo the time. Lots of folk are tellig me to get rid of him, but I do love him. This post really bothered me. Welshie, I hope you do talk to someone on a one to one , as well as the MC. Your husband accuses you of being verbally abusive, yet not touching you, supporting you, and making comments about your body is just as much emotional abuse on his part. Its easy to lash out with unhappiness when the person you love is so openly disrectecful. You know...love is not always based on having the perfect body, and having a specific appearence. Love is love. Your husband has a lot of SELF love. I gained 20 lbs this winter (winter was good to me) Ive recently taken 10 off....my B/F , not once, said anyting about it. But he never stopped reinforcing his attraction towards me. Has told me over and over what a beautiful body I have, knowing I was feeling insecure. Love is what enables us to deal with the little things that really do bother us about another person, like not being a size 4. If your husband has expressed his dislike towards your body Im sure that makes you insecure sexually. If he could see past his own problems and stopped saying such negative things to you the sex part may get better. Then again, if the love is gone or was never there you cant force anything. Thats why Im glad you put a time limit on your decisions. Huggles
SoleMate Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 Yeah, stuckbloke sometimes seems like he's still stuck in the sandbox/playground stage - seeing only his own pain and not doing much to put himself in your shoes. Doesn't Plan A of the marriage builders site (google it everybody) mention this exact problem? How the BS has to be strong and loving and be someone that the WS spouse WANTS to come back to, while simultaneously enduring the ongoing pain of continued rejection? Plan A only makes sense if you can have faith that it will lead somewhere. It is a step on the path, NOT a way of life. I believe Dr. Harley mentions about 3 months for total detox of the lover out of your H's system - IF HE IS FOLLOWING STRICT NC. Also, I remember that NC is supposed to include NOT TALKING about the lover either, even if it is to you. That's just too painful for you to hear again and again. About his rejection/disapproval of your body...I know that is a very sensitive subject, and it also seems to play a big role in this marriage. If you don't mind, I'd like to hear more specifics about it. Please keep in mind that there are people with all body types who post here and would like to assist with this. I do question whether a marriage can ever be truly happy when one partner feels that kind of aversion, and the other experiences the rejection. Physical love can't be everything, but as Dr. Harley explains, it is an essential element for true happiness. He also goes on to explain that for every person, there is a look or type that they find incredibly appealing in a potential SO. Not supermodel, but something that tugs your heartstrings when you look at him/her. So this is not about whether you and your body are good enough to be loved. It is about whether your H can love your body. Please keep posting, there is hope.
MiChick43 Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 I'm so humiliated, our failure is public, and I feel like a washed up fat old woman, I'm only 29 and I'm only a clothes size 12-14uk (8-10 US) so I know it's not true but I feel so ugly Please keep in mind that there are people with all body types who post here and would like to assist with this I am 5 ft4 and Im in a size 10. Im not fat, yet not skinny. I gainned 20 lbs this winter, as I posted earlier. If I drop the other 10lbs like I want Ill be back in my 8s. By far....you are not old and fat, welshie. You are only 29, that is a great age and you still have many youthful and wonderful years to go. Im wondering, is your husband much older then you? I dont remember reading his age. You say the OW is 15 years younger?
Ladyjane14 Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 Shortly after my husband and I married, I had a dream about him. Somehow, In my dream his body was gone, and his brain had been installed in a robot. Bizarre....I know. Anyway, he looked like a cross between the Lost in Space robot, and "Rosie" on the Jetsons! And even in my dream, I realized our sex-life was pretty much over.....I mean afterall, he was a ROBOT! But in my dream, even though he looked really weird....I still loved him intensely. He was still the same person, just wrapped up in a different package. Our bodies WILL change over the course of time. That's just nature. Young and firm, will eventually become wizened by age. Thin people can get fat. Pleasantly plump, can become skinny and bony. A man with a full head of hair at age 25 might have more growing on his back at age 45. Heck, a woman might end up having more hair on her chin than her husband has on his! That's just life. It's fluid...not static. And you love the person you love....because of who they are, not what they look like. It's pointless right now to even hope for stuckbloke to really SEE the person that you are. He's lost in a 'fog' of his own addictions, controlled by his own emotions....and virtually of no good use to ANYONE until he finds his way back. His perceptions are skewed. So, why take these hurtful comments to heart? He loved you enough to marry you before. If your body was ALWAYS such an issue for him.....he wouldn't have married you to begin with. It's fluff and nonsense. Rationalizations for affair-behavior. He's still pushing you. There's a part of him which would dearly love to push you hard enough to force your hand here. There's another part somewhere inside him that KNOWS it's the wrong thing to do. In that, you're dealing with a duality that you cannot control. He has to fix it for himself. All you need to do is to give him a window of opportunity. You're just giving him TIME to pull his head out of his ass. He's got it wedged in there pretty good too....so it might take quite a bit. In the interim, work on being the best PERSON that you can be....the person you always wanted to be. Be patient. Be kind. Be all that you respect most in others. A great Mom, a loving wife, a good friend....if it's what you'd want written in your eulogy at the end of your life....be that TODAY. Go about your business. You can't control stuckbloke's time-table anyway. Make yourself a list of goals, both personal and professional.....and get to work on YOU. p.s. In regards to making "reparations"....Yes, that HAS to happen eventually. But he needs to resolve his duality in order for it to be an honest effort. You're still dealing with a WH, not a husband. He's got to get out of the "fog" first.
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