Almost 1 year after D-Day, what am I doing?

[RecoveringSlowly]

This is highly unlikely to be short, but I will try.

 

A year ago my husband was involved in an online Ea with someone I know. It never quite got to the sexy talking stage, but he admitted, after some reflection that it was exactly where it was heading. He had lost his job, was having a hard time finding another, and felt into deep depression. He said his feelings of inadequacy made him turn to her. He neglected our family, our home, and completely shut me out. He spent every available minute talking to her.

 

When I asked why he didn't turn to me, he said he was ashamed. I have never been weak, through cancer, the death of close family members, the disability of our child, and financial disaster I have been a rock in the storm. While he was loosing everything, I went back to school for a very difficult field and was (and continue to) excell. He liked talking to her because he considered her beneath him, he felt more successful and accomplished when he talked to her because she is such a basket case.

 

I told him that I didn't want him or the marriage anymore, but due to the fact that I gave up my hope of a career to support his, that he owed me the time I needed to finish college. He agreed, and said that he would do everything to fix our marriage before I graduated.

 

He has. Ow was a bit of a bunny boiler. He was very open about her attempts to contact him, and finally (I hope) got rid of her with his last response. He has grown to hate her over the past year, because every time she contacts him it sets off a roller coaster of emotions for me.

 

He has been true to his word. He openly shares all communication, does his part in the house, supports my efforts to get my degree, and has generally become a better person to be around. I am afraid that it is starting to work. I didn't expect him to keep it up for this long, and I am terrified that I am falling in love with him again.

 

So, I guess my question is, am I a complete idiot? I was raised to believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater," but it there a possibility of rebuilding our marriage from this? Or am I just falling for his nonsense only to be hurt again? We have been together for sixteen years, if there is a real chance of fixing this I want to to let go of the bitterness and try, but I don't know if I can go through this again. This nearly destroyed me..

 

He says that he had no idea that anybody (aside from my children) could cause me this level of devastation. Sometimes when I am sad he will just look at me and say, "I am an idiot. I am so sorry I did this to you, and if you decide to let me I will spend the rest of my life making it up to you."

 

What the hell am I supposed to do? I didn't consider this anybodies business but our own, I was raised with rigid views about airing dirty laundry, so I don't have anyone to talk to. Thoughts?

[dichotomy]

You say EA did not go to sexual talk. Was there expressions of love? Did he ever demean you or the marriage to this other woman...or was this woman just a place to deal with his feelings of loss over his job and status? NO EXCUSE - but confessing weaknesses to your partner/wife, showing weaknesses, especially over a job/provider status, can be very hard for some men. I take my feelings of weakness to my therapist (a woman).

 

Before the EA, before he lost his job, was he a good husband and father?

 

 

He is doing all he can to repair things. Thats good and needed. I do worry slightly that he will "spend the rest of his life making this up to you"...I think (in time - someday) you will need a full equal confident man, and not a sub - always trying to please you because of this mistake...if you know what I mean. For now its great that he does whats needed.

 

As for whether to stay or not - for me it came down to very carefully examining the life that awaited me at each choice of the fork in the road. I really tried to practically imagine being a single divorced dad, what that life would or could bring for me (and my kids) over several years. What would be the upside and downside to me choosing this divorce path?. Conversely what my life would/could be like if I stay and work on it, or cope, what the positives and negatives would be. Once I felt I had a pretty vision of what both lives could be like for me - I choose the one that worked best (or was least bad I guess).

 

In your case things seem to be moving in the right direction staying married... divorce can always be a choice later if they don't continue that way. But i understand the fear of loving again especially loving someone that betrayed you already.

Edited December 19, 2015 by dichotomy

[NewLeaf512]

I think it might be helpful to define what EA means to you.

 

If it was my marriage I wouldn't pitch it out over chat that was not ever sexual in nature I don't think. That is merely my opinion. If what your definition of an EA entails is sharing thoughts with anyone but you that are of a personal nature, I'd be hurt but I could understand him feeling a bit embarrassed. I hope you come to the best decision for you and your children and if you decide to split you don't look back in a few years and wish you'd not done it. There isn't a bounty of amazing out here I can say from experience.

 

Sending uplifting thoughts,

 

NL

[Oberfeldwebel]

I believe that most relationships can be fixed if both parties work to fix the problems. I think that you have done well up to this point and he it appears that he has put in the hard work necessary to help you heal. These are all good things, but you are now at a decision point in life. Do you reengage or just divorce? Unfortunately there is no right or wrong to that question, it is a personal decision. If you thought that he would never ever do it again would you stay? Can you forgive him and have a new relationship with him? Do you still love this person?

 

If you can say yes to these questions, then I think you should consider saving your marriage. There are no guarantees and the decision is yours. I highly recommend that you engage in couples counseling to help you strengthen the relationship to a healthy position. He needs to know that the changes he has made are not a temporary fix, but a way of life. You have been a rock for this family to this point, this would be the ultimate test. Best of luck to you and your family.

[BetrayedH]

Seems a bit off to me that a woman would become a bunny boiler over a chat relationship that hadn't yet even reached sexting.

 

The times I've seen women become bunny boilers are typically when the married man had gotten her to have sex after he made proclamations of love, and then dumped her. It's usually exasperated by the married man successfully lying to his wife that nothing ever happened or suggesting that the OW is a crazy stalker. The OW is somewhat driven crazy by the fact that the MM is not only going to get away with it, but also dump all the blame on the OW in the process. After they've already been rejected, it's insult on top of injury.

 

How certain are you that this wasn't a physical affair? I'm not suggesting that a PA is worse than an EA. But if he's lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting, then he's not as remorseful as he seems. Have you been able to read "all" of their communications? Has she reached out to you at any point wanting to offer her side of the story?

[RecoveringSlowly]

You say EA did not go to sexual talk. Was there expressions of love? Did he ever demean you or the marriage to this other woman...or was this woman just a place to deal with his feelings of loss over his job and status? NO EXCUSE - but confessing weaknesses to your partner/wife, showing weaknesses, especially over a job/provider status, can be very hard for some men. I take my feelings of weakness to my therapist (a woman).

 

Before the EA, before he lost his job, was he a good husband and father?

 

 

He is doing all he can to repair things. Thats good and needed. I do worry slightly that he will "spend the rest of his life making this up to you"...I think (in time - someday) you will need a full equal confident man, and not a sub - always trying to please you because of this mistake...if you know what I mean. For now its great that he does whats needed.

 

As for whether to stay or not - for me it came down to very carefully examining the life that awaited me at each choice of the fork in the road. I really tried to practically imagine being a single divorced dad, what that life would or could bring for me (and my kids) over several years. What would be the upside and downside to me choosing this divorce path?. Conversely what my life would/could be like if I stay and work on it, or cope, what the positives and negatives would be. Once I felt I had a pretty vision of what both lives could be like for me - I choose the one that worked best (or was least bad I guess).

 

In your case things seem to be moving in the right direction staying married... divorce can always be a choice later if they don't continue that way. But i understand the fear of loving again especially loving someone that betrayed you already.

 

Don't worry, you don't need to qualify the no excuse thing with me. He never demeaned me, but he did complain about our marriage. It didn't start that way, but I saw the messages where she "just pointed out" things about our marriage that she thought I should be doing. At first he was not receptive, but over time he started to agree with her.

 

Yes, he was a great husband and father. He is again. Our children adore him, which is one of the reasons I have debated not leaving until they move out, even if I don't forgive him. They have lived with both of their parents for their entire life. A divorce would be more traumatic for them than I can express.

 

I agree with the "spending his life making it up to me thing." I realized about a month ago that his version of that is to just give in all the time. I am a powerful, dominant woman. I fell in love with him because he always calls me on my crap. I can steamroll just about everyone I have ever met, but not him. At least not until a year ago.

 

Honestly, I thought I did that. I thought I knew that life would be better without him. But lately I have had moments, even days, where it feels like we could be happy again. Thank you for your understanding, it is nice to receive some emotional validation. It is so hard to talk to him about this. He gets very upset and just starts apologizing profusely. I have already heard the apologies, I get it, he is sorry. I wish we could have a normal conversation about this where he doesn't fly off into a bunch of self-hating bull****.

[RecoveringSlowly]

I think it might be helpful to define what EA means to you.

 

If it was my marriage I wouldn't pitch it out over chat that was not ever sexual in nature I don't think. That is merely my opinion. If what your definition of an EA entails is sharing thoughts with anyone but you that are of a personal nature, I'd be hurt but I could understand him feeling a bit embarrassed. I hope you come to the best decision for you and your children and if you decide to split you don't look back in a few years and wish you'd not done it. There isn't a bounty of amazing out here I can say from experience.

 

Sending uplifting thoughts,

 

NL

I originally knew he was talking to her, we have always had an open book policy about passwords, emails, and Facebook. In fact, I don't keep a Facebook, so when I am bored and just want to look at cute memes I am welcome to use his. I, being the idiot that I am, originally encouraged him to talk to her. She was depressed and cutting, and least that is what she said, and she didn't have anyone in her life to offer support.

 

Here are the problematic parts IMO:

 

1. He took the conversation underground to an email address I knew nothing about.

 

2. He stopped talking to me, stopped touching me, and when I asked him to talk to me about the state of our M he would blow me off and start talking to her as soon as I walked out of the room about how he needed support and how grateful he was to have her.

 

3. She sent him this sexy, white tee shirt and no bra picture, and his response was along the lines of how sexy she was, but there was never any cyber sex and I caught him before more pictures were sent.

 

I know it is cliche to blame the other woman, but the further I get from this the more I can see that she preyed on him and manipulated his depression in order to receive validation. I am afraid that I am trying to blame shift so that I can convince myself to stay. But if women can be manipulated emotionally and taken advantage of, why can't men? Trust me, it does not let him off the hook, but should I consider that?

[RecoveringSlowly]

I believe that most relationships can be fixed if both parties work to fix the problems. I think that you have done well up to this point and he it appears that he has put in the hard work necessary to help you heal. These are all good things, but you are now at a decision point in life. Do you reengage or just divorce? Unfortunately there is no right or wrong to that question, it is a personal decision. If you thought that he would never ever do it again would you stay? Can you forgive him and have a new relationship with him? Do you still love this person?

 

If you can say yes to these questions, then I think you should consider saving your marriage. There are no guarantees and the decision is yours. I highly recommend that you engage in couples counseling to help you strengthen the relationship to a healthy position. He needs to know that the changes he has made are not a temporary fix, but a way of life. You have been a rock for this family to this point, this would be the ultimate test. Best of luck to you and your family.

 

I do love him, I have from the moment I laid eyes on him. I have hated myself for the past year for loving him. In my mind the fact that I couldn't stop loving him after he betrayed me was indicative of deep personal weakness and codependency. I felt like I was betraying myself as much, if not more, than he did. Forgiveness is not my strong suit, never has been. I'm kind of a bitch. Now I am starting to wonder if that love comes from a place of weakness or strength.

[RecoveringSlowly]

Seems a bit off to me that a woman would become a bunny boiler over a chat relationship that hadn't yet even reached sexting.

 

The times I've seen women become bunny boilers are typically when the married man had gotten her to have sex after he made proclamations of love, and then dumped her. It's usually exasperated by the married man successfully lying to his wife that nothing ever happened or suggesting that the OW is a crazy stalker. The OW is somewhat driven crazy by the fact that the MM is not only going to get away with it, but also dump all the blame on the OW in the process. After they've already been rejected, it's insult on top of injury.

 

How certain are you that this wasn't a physical affair? I'm not suggesting that a PA is worse than an EA. But if he's lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting, then he's not as remorseful as he seems. Have you been able to read "all" of their communications? Has she reached out to you at any point wanting to offer her side of the story?

 

I am positive it wasn't physical because I read the messages between them. This woman is a straight trip. She decided that when he stopped talking to her it was because I wouldn't allow it and insisted that she doesn't give up on her friends that easily. She made multiple attempts to reestablish contact, the most recent about 40 days ago. It was all about how much they needed each other and how important their friendship was. She has some pretty serious mental issues. I was starting to worry that we were dealing with an entry level aromantic stalker. I was concerned about her comments about how I was getting "in the way" of their needs, and how they could be happy if I was out of the picture. I purchased a gun and went with my dad to the range to learn to use it. I was looking into CC classes so that I had some protection outside the home when it eased off.

 

I think part of my rage at him has been the fact that he inflicted this nutty woman on our life and family. I have a very narrow view of people who jeopardize my children's safety.

[Whoknew30]

His flirtation went to far & he opened up to another woman which is wrong!

 

Although I feel if he truly didn't love & respect you, it would have gone farther & it didn't & if this scare made him a better man, i wouldn't see why you wouldn't give him another shot. Usually when they say once a cheater always a cheater, they mean a person that can't keep their pants on.

 

We all have our own boundaries & he evidently crossed yours but no one is perfect. Why break up your family if you love him & see him changed. Then have to start with someone new that may do the same thing or even worse. He sounds like a good guy that screwed up & that's sorry.

 

Good luck to you

[oldshirt]

 

 

.

 

So, I guess my question is, am I a complete idiot? I was raised to believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater," but it there a possibility of rebuilding our marriage from this? Or am I just falling for his nonsense only to be hurt again? We have been together for sixteen years, if there is a real chance of fixing this I want to to let go of the bitterness and try, but I don't know if I can go through this again. This nearly destroyed me..

 

His time and energy spent talking with this woman was clearly inappropriate. His role as husband and father was to spend every waking moment securing employment, not bellyaching to another woman.

 

 

However as there has been no evidence of physical contact in the real world, no declarations of love, no future planning, no overt sexual or romantic interactions, no disparaging of you etc etc, I am not sure this rises to the bar of being a, "once a cheater, always a cheater" situation.

 

 

This was inappropriate and most certainly had great potential to lead to disaster, but I am remiss in labeling it actual adultery.

 

 

I think this was a near miss. It was close for sure but a near miss is still a miss.

 

 

I think there is room for some leeway here.

 

 

You may not have been here on Love Shack very long and may not be familiar with my posting style, but the other long term posters here will be able to tell you that I am very harsh on cheaters and very very harsh on BS's that do not stand up for themselves and impose their boundaries with the iron hand of discipline.

 

 

as long as there isn't some other unknown piece of the puzzle here that hasn't been discovered yet, I do believe this situation is salvageable.

 

 

I agree that any future transgressions should be met with swift and definitive actions. But I think this situation as it has been relayed is entirely salvageable and all efforts should be made by each party to mend fences and shore up those fences to prevent any future breaches.

 

 

cont........

[oldshirt]

cont.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you sought professional marriage counseling (MC)?

 

 

If you haven't, I do believe this is a case where MC would be clearly warranted and would be beneficial.

 

 

The primary role of MC is for people who do wish to reconcile and remain together and have a healthy and happy future relationship are able to fully express their objectives and perspectives and why they reacted and did the things they did and to help each other gain understanding and find ways to work together to achieve mutual goals and work together in constructive manners.

 

 

MC does not turn bad people into good people. MC does not "punish" bad behavior nor reward good behavior. MC can shine light into people's blind spots and make them see how their behavior and conduct can cause the other one pain and cause damage to the relationship. MC can show how certain patterns and methods of behavior may not be in the better interests of the relationship.

 

 

MC can also help show positive ways to deal with issues like anger, resentments, dissapointments etc. And it can show couples more positive mechanisms for resolving conflicts and disagreements.

 

 

And finally, a very good, competent and wise therapist can also see if a marriage is beyond repair and should dissolve and if he/she believes it is in the better interest that a marriage dissolve, they will recommend such. In those instances where divorce is the better option, MC can also help with the dissolution process to help mitigate the hurt and the chaos and the collateral damage to the children etc etc. MC can also be a benefit to keep a divorce as amicable and cooperative as possible to lessen the post-divorce damage and anger etc.

 

 

I think MC can help your situation and I strongly urge you to give it serious consideration.

[RecoveringSlowly]

His flirtation went to far & he opened up to another woman which is wrong!

 

Although I feel if he truly didn't love & respect you, it would have gone farther & it didn't & if this scare made him a better man, i wouldn't see why you wouldn't give him another shot. Usually when they say once a cheater always a cheater, they mean a person that can't keep their pants on.

 

We all have our own boundaries & he evidently crossed yours but no one is perfect. Why break up your family if you love him & see him changed. Then have to start with someone new that may do the same thing or even worse. He sounds like a good guy that screwed up & that's sorry.

 

Good luck to you

 

Thank you. I do think I need a reality check.

[Popsicle]

I think it's clear that you want to let it go, but the question is how to let it go? Perhaps therapy (for you) is in order. They may be able to help you with this.

[RecoveringSlowly]

cont.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you sought professional marriage counseling (MC)?

 

 

If you haven't, I do believe this is a case where MC would be clearly warranted and would be beneficial.

 

 

The primary role of MC is for people who do wish to reconcile and remain together and have a healthy and happy future relationship are able to fully express their objectives and perspectives and why they reacted and did the things they did and to help each other gain understanding and find ways to work together to achieve mutual goals and work together in constructive manners.

 

 

MC does not turn bad people into good people. MC does not "punish" bad behavior nor reward good behavior. MC can shine light into people's blind spots and make them see how their behavior and conduct can cause the other one pain and cause damage to the relationship. MC can show how certain patterns and methods of behavior may not be in the better interests of the relationship.

 

 

MC can also help show positive ways to deal with issues like anger, resentments, dissapointments etc. And it can show couples more positive mechanisms for resolving conflicts and disagreements.

 

 

And finally, a very good, competent and wise therapist can also see if a marriage is beyond repair and should dissolve and if he/she believes it is in the better interest that a marriage dissolve, they will recommend such. In those instances where divorce is the better option, MC can also help with the dissolution process to help mitigate the hurt and the chaos and the collateral damage to the children etc etc. MC can also be a benefit to keep a divorce as amicable and cooperative as possible to lessen the post-divorce damage and anger etc.

 

 

I think MC can help your situation and I strongly urge you to give it serious consideration.

 

I will consider that. I have been unwilling to talk about counseling. I tried to go to a therapist after the birth of my son, and it was a terrible experience. The guy was an ass, and it took me days to equalize myself after our sessions. It wasn't even confronting hard truths, I am good at that. He made me feel like a failure because I was relying on my husband for help after a physically difficult and life threatening birth. According to him, being a housewife meant caring for the house, and because I was recovering and taking it easy I was neglecting my husband. It was my husband that said he didn't want me seeing that man again, and I haven't trusted a therapist since. However, I think it may be time to pull up my big girl panties and get over it.

[RecoveringSlowly]

I think it's clear that you want to let it go, but the question is how to let it go? Perhaps therapy (for you) is in order. They may be able to help you with this.

 

You might be right. I need to face the fact that I may have come here looking for people to tell me what I want to hear, to make me feel like I'm making the right choice. Maybe I need to search for that validation inside myself.

[Popsicle]

You might be right. I need to face the fact that I may have come here looking for people to tell me what I want to hear, to make me feel like I'm making the right choice. Maybe I need to search for that validation inside myself.

 

Sure, but it's okay to need help!

[Oberfeldwebel]

I do love him, I have from the moment I laid eyes on him. I have hated myself for the past year for loving him. In my mind the fact that I couldn't stop loving him after he betrayed me was indicative of deep personal weakness and codependency. I felt like I was betraying myself as much, if not more, than he did. Forgiveness is not my strong suit, never has been. I'm kind of a bitch. Now I am starting to wonder if that love comes from a place of weakness or strength.

 

This has to come from strength and not weakness. If you stay because you are afraid to loose him, you will continue to hate yourself and resent him. These are things that you should consider exploring in counseling. This may be something you want to pursue on your own before seeking couples counseling. Don't be so hard on yourself, your feelings are perfectly normal and if you can't get over the betrayal, then you need to accept that and move on with your life.

[oldshirt]

I do love him, I have from the moment I laid eyes on him. I have hated myself for the past year for loving him. In my mind the fact that I couldn't stop loving him after he betrayed me was indicative of deep personal weakness and codependency. I felt like I was betraying myself as much, if not more, than he did. Forgiveness is not my strong suit, never has been. I'm kind of a bitch. Now I am starting to wonder if that love comes from a place of weakness or strength.

 

 

 

Strength is knowing what is the right course of action and doing it even though it will cause discomfort and uncertainty in the moment.

 

 

Weakness is not doing the right thing due to not being willing or able to endure the near-term pain and discomfort.

 

 

Wisdom is knowing what is the right thing.

 

 

 

 

Strength is not necessarily kicking someone to the curb because they have wronged you and weakness is not necessarily working to save a home and marriage and keeping a family intact.

 

 

Wisdom comes in to play here in a large degree. you need all the facts and you need to look at the big picture in all of it's elements.

 

 

If someone is mistreating you and BSing you and manipulating you and you know that the situation is toxic and will ultimately cause you more pain and damage in the long run if stay in it, but yet you fail to act because you don't want the immediate discomfort and disruption - that is clearly weakness.

 

 

Strength in that instance would be taking action to secure your long term health, sanity and well being in spite of the immediate pain.

 

 

However in an instance where the damage was tolerable, long term recovery and maintenance is possible, and the long term benefits of reconciliation outweighs the damage and hurt that has occurred, then the sign of strength would be rolling up the sleeves and putting in the time and effort to make the necessary repairs and future maintenance.

 

 

So your situation will all boil down to the question of are you being BS'd and manipulated or not. Are you being set up to be cuckolded (usually a term used for men with cheating wives but I think it applies here)

 

 

Is everything as it appears or are you being rugswept and BS'd?

 

 

You may have to take some calculated risk. you risk putting in time and effort to reconcile only to find out he was getting it on with her every week down at the Notell Motell and is still putting it to her now.

 

 

But you also risk pulling the self-destruct lever on your marriage, home and family when everything has been on the up and up and the marriage was entirely salvageable and could have been a good and healthy state with some time and work.

 

 

You are the one that has to make that call and determine what is the best course of action.

 

 

My recommendation is make sure you have all the facts and that you look at the big picture as a whole and not just at your bruised ego. Make sure he's not BSing you. Make sure you aren't BSing yourself.

 

 

And I also recommend professional MC. That process will help get everything out on the table and each of you to state your position and objectives and help each of you to navigate through the reconciliation process or the dissolution process.